Sweetwater Bay - Greek Land!

Milou


Joined: 15/10/2007
Posts: 425

Message Posted:
24/01/2009 18:08

We had an interesting visitor on site on Sundayday. It was the Greek gentleman and his family who claimed they owned this land that SWB is built on. He was a very charming gentleman, had beautiful wife who is an actress - I also met his father and moher - we had a crazy long conversation with them. We all got on like a house on fire and they finally departed saying that he was off to see his lawyer on the way home resulting in me having to polish off another bottle of wine!

Regards

Miloiu

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
24/01/2009 18:12

What was his views on the situation Milou ?

batterboy58



Joined: 20/04/2008
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
24/01/2009 18:16

He was probably alerted by all the reports of a girlie bar, night club

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
24/01/2009 18:20

milous still on the wine shes posted the same thing twice

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
24/01/2009 18:21

Or the Greek gentleman came back the next day with his lawyer?

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
24/01/2009 18:23

hi milou you drank the wine fell asleep and had a nightmare go easy on the wine

Milou


Joined: 15/10/2007
Posts: 425

Message Posted:
24/01/2009 18:27

Turtle



He was trying to find out who the owner of the site is.

Milou

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
24/01/2009 18:33

Who is the owner, the builder or someone behind the scenes ?

mint1955



Joined: 30/05/2007
Posts: 988

Message Posted:
24/01/2009 18:35

Was this last Sunday? What did SWB say about it?

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
24/01/2009 18:38

well milou how can it be his if he asked you who owns it

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
24/01/2009 18:39

rowlo.....I think he asked who owned the development....that was built on his land?

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
24/01/2009 18:43

yes cronos i know but did he have the deeds saying it was his land isnt that their dispute or can any greek gent come in and say the same thing

Blackpoolfan


Joined: 03/12/2008
Posts: 1568

Message Posted:
24/01/2009 18:47

Message 1

With respect is it April 1st already???

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
24/01/2009 18:50

If he was just "any Greek gent"..(you mean Greek Cypriot)...then he'd gone to a lot of trouble just to have a glass or two with Milou.



The deeds are the key....that is, the internationally recognised deeds...and if he has them , then only time will tell us the outcome.

Milou


Joined: 15/10/2007
Posts: 425

Message Posted:
24/01/2009 18:50

When I told him that we were sitting on exchange land he said that no one had informed him or his family and to-date they are still waiting for this land to be returned to them?

Milou

mint1955



Joined: 30/05/2007
Posts: 988

Message Posted:
24/01/2009 18:55

Moira what have SWB or RMS said ?

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
24/01/2009 19:06

msg 14 gent/cypriot exactly but i suspect if he has them why does he need to see his lawyer more trouble and expense theyll be opening up lawyers offices in roc soon enough land 4 u no win no fee watch this space

norths4me


Joined: 19/04/2007
Posts: 269

Message Posted:
24/01/2009 19:07

Moira



You minx

Bigcheese


Joined: 12/01/2009
Posts: 51

Message Posted:
24/01/2009 19:09

We've had 3 different people round to ours all claiming to be the former owner of the land! I wouldn't really take much notice

dobbo



Joined: 13/06/2007
Posts: 72

Message Posted:
24/01/2009 19:14

Interesting, but surely everybody realised the land would of been owned by a Greek Cypriot before 1974. I suppose actually meeting the original owner would make it more real. I wonder where he is living now and on what land !

Maybe a deal could be done with him!

davidoff


Joined: 21/04/2007
Posts: 438

Message Posted:
24/01/2009 19:41

Hi all,



Did anyone else onsite meet this gent??



Or just yourselves??



Owners who bought knew it was exchange in the first place and must have known the potential risks upfront?? Those who did their homework thoroughly that is??



If this is another wind up as theres alot of gossip about various other topics at the moment then it is A VERY CRUEL ONE ??



d x

sweep


Joined: 11/10/2007
Posts: 241

Message Posted:
24/01/2009 19:54

i say it belongs to,



RICHARD THE LION HEART he once ownd cyprus so maybe his great,great,great,great ,great grandchildren will go for it as well on a no win no fee watch this space.

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
24/01/2009 20:25

good point sweep crusader castles are still their wonder who owns them these days ???

luckyeye


Joined: 09/10/2008
Posts: 4

Message Posted:
24/01/2009 21:35

Does anyone know the value of the land at SWB .

My Cypriot friend visited the tatlasu area a weeks ago and said it was remote and quiet,

So maybe all owners can contribute and buy land back from the cypriot gentleman.

Nana

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
24/01/2009 21:52

luckyeye



the land that is now called "tatlisu" is called aganthou! & only after a settlement (solution) can the land at todays value be assesed by who ever the gc owner wishes to hire to do the valuation, that is if they wish to sell! they might want there land back for future family homes.

luckyeye


Joined: 09/10/2008
Posts: 4

Message Posted:
24/01/2009 21:46

If the cypriot gentleman wants compensation how much is the land worth.

My cypriot friend visited last week and said tatllisu area very quiet and remote so could be not expensive land.

Nana

andysue


Joined: 12/11/2007
Posts: 891

Message Posted:
24/01/2009 22:01

spot on comment davina " who else saw or spoke to these people" ive sent a couple of e-mails lets see what comes back. strange comment from N4ME maybe he knows moira is practicing for april fools day. .



andy

steviec


Joined: 13/01/2008
Posts: 89

Message Posted:
24/01/2009 22:03

what a plan it would be for GC propaganda to visit sites and forums claiming they own the land and get every brit quaking in there boots of what might happen.



yes you can never say never but solution years off direct action even further. Ill worry about it then.

Milou


Joined: 15/10/2007
Posts: 425

Message Posted:
24/01/2009 22:44

Hi Gang



Actually WE ALL MET THE FAMILY - whilst they knocked on our door, Arthur met them, Walt and Jan met them as well as Keith and I and whilst it may be exchange land it hand't been exchanged with this gentleman or his family.



Mint - sorry I have no confidence in anything from SWB sales office or what their answer would be so I haven't bothered telling them but for the first time since arriving on this island, Keith and I are a little concerned - on the other hand if Yoav decides to suddenly offer me title deeds we might really be concerned particularly as the government is now giving us 75% off until the end of March if we take up title!

Milou

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 00:04

after the settlement the land that the gc owns will be worth a fortune, thats if he wants to sell!!!

steviec


Joined: 13/01/2008
Posts: 89

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 00:10

why should we believe someone who turns up on SWB saying its there land. If i thought i had a claim on land, I would certainly bring some proof especially if i was going to confront the said person who had taken it. Also if was on the way to see his lawyer he would have paperwork.



Its all tosh.

andysue


Joined: 12/11/2007
Posts: 891

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 00:27

never trust a greek bareing gifts !

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 00:29

You beat me to it Andy !

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 00:30

Ah, but what about a Greek bearing no gifts?

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 00:39

or a greek with a lawyer in tow!!!

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 01:07

Did you mean a "Greek Cypriot " Suzz

norths4me


Joined: 19/04/2007
Posts: 269

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 02:30

I am totally fed up of this. Yes we bought on this site because we satisfied ourself that we were happy with the title after researching the pros and cons. So what if someone has turned up alledgidly claiming the site as theres. It was wasteland. Bullshit, moira u have gone down in my estimatations and proved me wrong about u and proved everyone else correct about you and your motives which makes me sorry as i really liked you. Sad

Milou


Joined: 15/10/2007
Posts: 425

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 09:57

norths4me



As a result of the latest development in the Orams case there's a lot of activity going on in the north regarding Greek Cypruit claims. That's a fact.



According to Cyprus Today, the developer of the land on the other side of the ravine facing me is is being sued for EU. 23,000,000. That's another fact.



A Greek gentleman turned up here claiming this was his family's land and our conversation with him certainly seem to bear that out. That's another fact.



There are further developments reported in this week's Cyprus Today regarding the validity of TRNC Titles. That's another fact.



If you don't want to know these things, that fine but I feel that what's going on is important and poeople should know about it so that they can make their own enquiries.



And what are people saying about me? As I don't get on to the internet from one month end to the next, I have no idea what people find to gossip about -maybe you would care to enlighten me.

regards

Milou

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 10:30

msg36

thanks for correcting me turtle, i was tired when i posted!

millzer


Joined: 12/04/2007
Posts: 978

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 11:04

message 37, wasteland or not, bullshit it aint and thats a fact, you may be occupying the land with your properties but in international law its someone else's. We are in the same boat too, but accept the fact that whatever is decided we will have to live with it.



If you bought a building plot in the UK and someone else went and built a house on it would that make it theirs? would you be happy?

norths4me


Joined: 19/04/2007
Posts: 269

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 11:56

Norths4me



Note to self, message 37 posted 00:30. Stay off the computer after a Burns night out

davidoff


Joined: 21/04/2007
Posts: 438

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 12:57

Hi all,



As much as I tend to agree in certain respects that honesty is the best policy and that anything that may effect owners should be shared all this thread will do is create uproar, panic and anxiety for many owners at swb.



With everything else globally happeneing right now there is already enough on the table for people to worry about.



Some people are like seagulls " they fly in every sp pften flap their wings about make some noise, sH*t on everyone else then fly back out again".



Regarding "gossips" many are fully aware that primarily the gossip comes from within the camp rather than the outsiders.



If you have a grievance with someone or something you should take it up directly with that person and not use bitterness and manipulation to draw others in and use them as pawns to help in your quest to create unsettlement.



take care d x

Arthur


Joined: 04/11/2008
Posts: 687

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 13:14

Well said Davina.



There has been a lot of spurious comment re SWB [teetotal site, girlie bar etc]. Whether the people who saw Moira & the others are genuine, time will tell. It would however seem sensible to ask SWB about it as presumably they still have a number of properties to sell, and so have a vested interest in helping resolve any genuine claim.



Arthur

mint1955



Joined: 30/05/2007
Posts: 988

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 13:22

I expect they are treating this with the same contempt as the nightclub issue.

We should all be aware of the possibilities of title being challenged - fact.



If this visitor was fact, then why did it take a week to let anyone else know. Why would anyone onsite, permanent or visitor not think that they have a responsibility to others, to at least let Yoav or higher up know if they feel they can't trust SWB staff or RMS. It is after all SWB/RMS that run the site? Who was this guy, what are his details or was he just some chancer staking out the site for more dubious reasons and has now seen the inside of a villa. Was he asked to go and speak to SWB or at least given their details. I hope that any residents onsite don't feel they have the right to deal with such matters on our behalf without consultation? I hope he wasn't given any information about absent owners or anything during the chat over wine that could undermine the security of SWB and its owners.

Sheila&Phil xx

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 13:40

Obviously this is a worry for some of you. I once attended a meeting at HBPG and a Bitish buyer asked Marion what he should do about the GC's that regularly arrived on the street where he lived to remind all the villa owners "he owned the land their villas were on"



As you can imagine the owners found this intimidating and distressing. Marion supplied a contact number and said that if they rang, someone would arrive and take details from the GC concerned.



Might be worth contacting the HPBG so that you all take the same stance should it happen again and verify this chaps true identity. Or you could look through the minutes of the meetings.

davidoff


Joined: 21/04/2007
Posts: 438

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 14:02

Hi Bradus,



Thankyou very much for your advice.



At least this way its possible to confirm for sure the owners identity and status for piece of mind one way or the other?



take care d x

jakki



Joined: 23/10/2007
Posts: 865

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 14:15

Let's picture the scene shall we ladies and gentlemen - a charming Greek (English speaking) man and his beautiful actress wife accompanied by his mother and father arrive at K&M's villa. This man politely informs K&M that he in fact owns the land that their villa sits on. Not deterred or worried or indeed even concerned, they are invited in. They have a 'crazy long' conversation over a bottle or two of wine. They all 'get on a like a house on fire'. M&K decide not to inform anybody about this encounter for a whole week. Let us try and imagine what's going on in the minds of K&M - 'I know let's wait a whole week to scare the shit out of everyone'.



If this man was indeed on his way to see his lawyer - perhaps SWB might have received some sort of communication by now. The plot thicks ladies and gentlemen - can't wait for the next instalment!!

rocky


Joined: 17/10/2007
Posts: 1749

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 14:27

Relax everyone this seems a lot of panic over something which may have no consequences. If we can have the facts from someone at SWB ,e.g. Yoav and the HPBG then we can consider our options. It would seem wrong to me that any land acquired by Greeks or Turks should be given back anyway when other land acquired in other conflicts across the world remains occupied. What about Kuwait? I think we all understood the risks that there may be compensation payable sometime and in a discussion with SWB when I made my reservation deposit the figure mentioned was 5%. When we pay any compensation obviously the risks will have gone and this would be reflected in higher prices in NC(hopefully). Arhtur you are an accountant what is the total of 5% of all the properties? It is my view thatthe end buyer should not be the only one to pay compensation as developers have made money on the project they should pay a levy on their profits. Perhaps the developers should undertake to pay any over 5%.WottufinK

Stewart


Joined: 19/07/2008
Posts: 1107

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 14:29

Just a thought.....these charming GC who are now viewing "their land"...who did they buy from?

rocky


Joined: 17/10/2007
Posts: 1749

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 14:29

Come on Yoav lets hear your views and make a commitment to all of us that the developer and the parent company will honour any claim above 5%..

jakki



Joined: 23/10/2007
Posts: 865

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 14:35

This is just a quick question for Andy - Andy it's common knowledge that you receive up-dates from Arthur in NC on a regular basis (I am only going on what you say in your previous messages) - Moira tells us that A&D met these people - did he in fact inform you of this last week?



My Arthur is currently at work at the moment - I'm sure he'll soon log in and give some advice on Rocky's message.



Jackie

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 14:35

dont think theyll stick their neck on the line rocky

rocky


Joined: 17/10/2007
Posts: 1749

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 14:42

they still have properties to sell (looks like 3 at £230K plus) and being an honourable developer (only prob is lack of communications in my view, although edith seems to be geting a few emails out to buyers) I am sure they would like to coment on this situation...lets hear from you Yoav ( no I dont want to buy a cheap property on the Gaza) and what name are you posting under on this thread?

davidoff


Joined: 21/04/2007
Posts: 438

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 15:28

Hi rocky,



As much as I respect your views and admire your optimism I dont think youll get any money from the developers.



Equally swb dont contribute to the forum as it is highly unethical for them to do so although they keep a constant eye on what is happening on the forum and are aware of what is being said.



Yes there are still properties to sell and Im sure the announcement of this thread will not help future sales and will put off any potential buyers in already a tough time.



So you can thank those who started the thread for ruining the prospect of a sold out site and also the lack of funds coming in for the developer and also the lack of monthly rms charges that they need to operate the site fully will now come in or not come in should I say??



So who will foot the bill for the shortfall in income??



take care d x

Arthur


Joined: 04/11/2008
Posts: 687

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 15:58

Rocky, I assume you mean 5% of the selling price, and these all vary. There are 20 villas with an average selling price of say £120k, =£2.4m. There are 12 bungalows average say £150k=£1.8m. If my sums are correct there are 114 flats of varying size and price, but the average has to be approx £80k= £9.12m. If the 5% was a settlement figure, this would give "the land owner" £660k, which for an unimproved bit of agricultural land would be a blinding result.

If we had to pay this, it would obviously depend on the size/price of property. The one bed flats would pay £2k, the bungalows on the point would pay circa £12k. Of course this would depend on any outcome as to whether we'd need to pay, and whether any owner would do a deal at 5%.

Bradus has given us [all of us] good advice. Can I suggest that if there are any further visits by alleged owners of the site, that those who are present follow it. It will not help our cause if we are divided, or needlessly give away any information.

rocky


Joined: 17/10/2007
Posts: 1749

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 16:01

Hi D I would think that SWB could say that we are getting such good value on a pime site and that we were naiave (cant spell it) if we did not understand the compensation issue. They would be right but obviously this thread has made people a little nervous because a Zorba called for a cuppa.

jakki



Joined: 23/10/2007
Posts: 865

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 16:05

Well I think it was more than a cuppa!!!

rocky


Joined: 17/10/2007
Posts: 1749

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 16:08

Arthur I think we could all sit comfortably with those figures to get to freeholds dont you?

Arthur


Joined: 04/11/2008
Posts: 687

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 16:15

I don't know other people's circumstances, but I'd be willing to pay roughly £6k for undisputable title to our villa. I suppose the problem is that we simply don't know. Getting one or two people out of a property is a damn sight easier than getting people out of nearly 150. I hope that whatever happens, commonsense will prevail.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 18:24

i heard this story from a policeman friend.

i understand that some people were not very nice to your gc visitor?



arthur, common sence should have prevailed before buying previously greek cypriot owned land or property. or listening to and believing an estate agent!

mint1955



Joined: 30/05/2007
Posts: 988

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 18:46

Do you mean the GC was an undercover cop or something or did the GC visitor make a complaint to the police?

Arthur


Joined: 04/11/2008
Posts: 687

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 18:49

Don't quite understand message 60. There are only a few people resident on SWB, and it appears that all those present had a jolly time with a few glasses of wine. If you know different perhaps enlighten us all.



I'm afraid that until today I had no knowledge of any visit, I simply saw Moira's posting from yesterday afternoon. Instead of leaving comments "hanging" perhaps everyone could be more specific rather than "some people were not very nice to your gc visitor".



As the "story" came from a policeman friend, hasn't he got anything better to do?

Yes, I was aware that there were potential title issues- however the same rather extraordinarily doesn't seem to be the case where TC land has been stolen [sorry I meant compulsorily purchased] in RoC.



I'm sorry, but I'm getting fed up with rumours being spread just to cause mischief and upset people.

andysue


Joined: 12/11/2007
Posts: 891

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 19:24

jakki sent you e-mail from arthur



andy

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 19:46

its pretty rude what i was told so i didn't give full details.

yes my policeman friend who happens to be family happened to mention it, something about being called out for people behaving badly.

i won't go futher than that.



when i first came to cyprus i was told by a friend.

if you do something wrong at famagusta, by the time you get to girne everyone will already know about it.

cyprus is a small place.



i wouldn't want to leave you hanging arthur, so who was it who exposed themselves?

andysue


Joined: 12/11/2007
Posts: 891

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 20:03

well the shit as definatley hit the fan this time, ive just transfered my fourth payment to sweetwater bay , if this had broke earlier i would have been tempted to throw in towel and loose thirty grand now i stand to loose forty five grand if i walk away. .

andy

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 20:14

RE msg 22, sweep : (...) RICHARD THE LION HEART he once ownd cyprus so maybe his great,great,great,great ,great grandchildren will go for it as well on a no win no fee watch this space. (...)



===> Just for the record: 1 : Richard the Lionheart conquered the island on the self-styled Emperor Isaac Ducas Comnenus (who, as a Byzantine, was an usurper himself) and then acted as the owner. Richard sold the island to the Knights Templar, who didn't pay him in full, so Richard sold the island again. This time to his French vassal Guy de Lusignan (the ex-King of Jerusalem, dethroned by Saladin, the famous Battle of Hattin).

2: Richard didn't have children with his wife Berengaria of Navarre. He (as historians believe today) was a homosexual.

kenny



Joined: 26/05/2008
Posts: 405

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 20:20

wow Richard the lionheart was gay !

mint1955



Joined: 30/05/2007
Posts: 988

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 20:21

Kenny thats the best comment I have seen all day

kenny



Joined: 26/05/2008
Posts: 405

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 20:22

trying to lighten things up a bit, minty

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 20:59

msg67 its only rumours and heresay they said that about prince william of orange he was from hans neck of the woods maybe he can enlighten us on that also

rocky


Joined: 17/10/2007
Posts: 1749

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 21:00

Greek Land? well it was at one time.. but we understood it was exchange land so if the owner has land in the south do we have a claim on that??? he cant have both can he?

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 21:01

Prince Edward might be able to enlighten us.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 21:26

There is no such thing as GC's and TC's exchanging land. Please research this and you will have a greater understanding of what your options will be if there is a settlement.

rocky


Joined: 17/10/2007
Posts: 1749

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 21:43

give us a clue as to where the best place is to research this please Bradus

Blackpoolfan


Joined: 03/12/2008
Posts: 1568

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 22:04

Andysue,

Fellow northerner, sit tight who can predict the future 20,000 foreigners in the TRNC are they going to evict us all kick us out and we lose everything. Im at olive grove in lapta once an olive grove now got 14 apartments and 14 penthouses total value £1.5 Million good bit of business... for a few grands worth of olives!! Throw in some scaremongering, paranoia, and a bit of bulls**t and a few GC's posting under various guises and this is what you end up with. Good Luck "Thal Be all reet int thend"

davidoff


Joined: 21/04/2007
Posts: 438

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 22:27

Hi all,



Rocky there are various threads on exchange land and kocans which make interesting reading this should help you understand a bit better.



In brief realistically there has never been an exchange of land agreement between south and north cyprus.



Although the north says there is??



take care d x

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 22:33

The TRNC Prime Ministers office give a clear understanding of the situation.

Try this



http://www.trncproperty.eu/index.php?men=396&item=398

andysue


Joined: 12/11/2007
Posts: 891

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 22:42

hi steve and thanks, it came as shock i got in from fishing a match at bannister farm near southport about 4.30 was feeling good as weather had been sunny (although i only caught one carp) switched on computer and bang sweetwater bay greek land! "oh no" i yelled ,wife thought spurs had scored! but what else can i do ? just hope we get some official comment from sweetwater bay as yoav knows about the visit. . tight lines mate



andy

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 23:02

Most of the research I have done comes from UN Resolutions, EU Directives, ROC publications, the media and discussions on this and other forums. Exchange simply means the distribution of GC title deeds by the TRNC ONLY.

Like many I initially had images of a GC and TC agreeing to an exchange but soon realised that the GC people have played no part in any exchange, except for 1 or 2 that took their swap to the ECHR.

Many on this forum prefer to deny this but ask yourself if the Orams bought exchange property why is their legal ownership being challenged?

A good starting point would be to look at the remit of the Souths Guardian of TC Property. This will show that no Tc property in the South has been sold. With this in mind how can there have been any exchanges?

norths4me


Joined: 19/04/2007
Posts: 269

Message Posted:
26/01/2009 00:04

Hi Guys, Ive just recovered. Lots of posts on this subject. Firstly Moira you are a disgrace for putting this on the forum for lots of reasons. Davidoff your replies impressed me and Im on your side

I bought exchange land and was fully aware that the land hadnt been exchanged but that the owner who has the farm beside the site signed over his land in the South which will be used as the bargaining tool come compensation etc.



Andy dont worry. All this has started because its the property talks next week. Then we shall see what the situation is. This is the machine working overdrive try to ignore it.

andysue


Joined: 12/11/2007
Posts: 891

Message Posted:
26/01/2009 00:12

n4me glad you said that about her, im not panicking at all i e-mailed arthur he seems more worried about RMS than this greek chancer, end of day we may have to pay some compo as rocky as said numerous times but this could be years down the line. ive calmed down from first reading it so come on gang chill out. .

andy

rocky


Joined: 17/10/2007
Posts: 1749

Message Posted:
26/01/2009 00:13

Baywatchers if we dont like this thread lets not post anymore and it will slip off the horizen and we can then wait for whatever!!!!!thats my final non contribution.

andysue


Joined: 12/11/2007
Posts: 891

Message Posted:
26/01/2009 00:19

sweetwater bay completions part 3 then

davidoff


Joined: 21/04/2007
Posts: 438

Message Posted:
26/01/2009 00:23

Hi all,



As much as there is possibly still some debate here to be had I agree with rocky and choose not to entertain this thread any longer so it can eventually disappear into the burmuda triangle where it belongs!!



Take care d x

steviec


Joined: 13/01/2008
Posts: 89

Message Posted:
26/01/2009 00:49

Hi Andy,



coming over to get furniture delivered and buy more, tiny doubt in my mind telling me to wait for anymore news.



Not prepared to wait god knows how many years. Going to enjoy it hugely and quite happily pay some kind of compo years down the line if its rightfully deserved.



The only way that this is going to be solved is compromise. The Greek Cypriots are going to want money not there land back, how uncomfortable/difficult it would be for them to turf out northern cyps/ex pats and then live there it aint going to happen. If they did get land back they would want to sell it not live somewhere they havent lived for 34 years especially in our case in the middle of nowhere.



SWB lets all remain positive.



Steven

kenny b


Joined: 12/09/2008
Posts: 211

Message Posted:
26/01/2009 02:16

Stevie C

Your comments are spot on as most of you know Andy is a mate of mine and I have visited your site on numerous occassions and always been impressed.

Why do SWB owners allow yourselves to be drawn in to people rumour mongering because thats all it is.I own on Turtle Bay and if I believed every comment posted about our site I would have topped myself 12 months ago.I have come to learn that there are many people that have nothing better to do than scare monger on 44.I will visit my apartment again in March sit on my patio and think to myself how lucky I am I will also visit SWB and think how lucky Andy and Sue are.I have come to learn over the past 12 months that if your developer and solicitor give you information take it as read the rest ignore. My dad used to call them "CANTEEN LAWYERS".This week alone 75% percent of transfer of title?Alchahol free SWB?And how about Pole Dancers at SWB.

Come on SWB owners you have a fantastic development.

IGNORE THE POLITICS OF ENVY

kavenkoy


Joined: 10/04/2008
Posts: 1787

Message Posted:
26/01/2009 12:01

lots of scaremongers out there .



mr talat has 2 homes ,his villa on exhange land also .



just a nice way for the gc to up the talks on property that start wednesday i believe .



as syeviec says ,we had a few lemon trees .i wasnt there in 1974 or until 2005 when we decided to buy .

i havent deprived anybody of anything .



i support the trnc and paid my taxes to it .



so lets stop worrying ,it may be another 34 years if they dont agree here on anything



kav

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
27/01/2009 21:31

msg 87: "



"mr talat has 2 homes ,his villa on exhange land also"



Or so the rumours would have some people believe. Have you seen his name on the title deed?

Dusterbruce


Joined: 03/08/2007
Posts: 1125

Message Posted:
27/01/2009 23:23

Do you think there is the chance that when (if) any settlement comes, the Greek Cypriots are going to come over in their hoards and try to turn out of their new homes the thousands of foreigners who have bought property on exchange land?

It will not happen, there would be riots and total anarchy, and what will the authorities do with the thousands of suddenly homeless people?

rocky


Joined: 17/10/2007
Posts: 1749

Message Posted:
27/01/2009 23:46

Ths thread is now closed please no more rubbish to be posted this forum should be informative

Milou


Joined: 15/10/2007
Posts: 425

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 18:24

Humble Pie



On reflection, after reading your comments and seeing all the fuss that my original posting caused, I should have rather emailed people individually - I apologise for all the consternation that I have caused.



However, I don't deserve all the bitchy comments and the very untruthful things which are being said about Keith and I. We will take this up separately.

Regards

Milou

Scythian



Joined: 14/03/2009
Posts: 75

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 13:48

Good afternoon, beg pardon, that interfere in Your nice conversation, but you hope did not forget that on greek Cyprus there is much earth of turk-cyprians, on which built luxurious villas for 400-800 thousand pound sterlings. P.s. Yes, I also purchased a villa in SWB, and as Russian soldier, will protect the propert in the militia of turks-cyprians, in the case of beginning of military operations.

Greeks-cyprians said the opinion in 2004, anymore there is not sense to answer the question of association of Cyprus. North - Turkish, South - greek. And no UNO or European Union able to do nothing, while sides will not come to single opinion, and it will be never. Turkey pays indemnification greeks-cyprians for the lost earths through the European court, and you know about it.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 14:30

welcome scythian



With both the Turkish and Russian army now camped in NC the TRNC is now invincible

berkeh2001


Joined: 28/02/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 14:33

roll on kktc

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 14:47

Sure it isn't Tiggy messing about onthe internet again? He's good at doing Johnny Foreigner impressions.

Scythian



Joined: 14/03/2009
Posts: 75

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 15:09

Mr. Reply

please, are not ironies necessary, it is a stranger conflict, we are all prudent citizens, even if a greek owner will apply on lot land of SWB, I agree to pay a reasonable price for buying an area back during 25-30 years, why is not it? P.s. I ask to excuse my robot-translator, make attempt learn Russian, then will understand everything. I need a help, my two daughters 8 and 10 years want to teach English, where it is possible to know June-July-August 2009 about summer school

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 18:02

sweetwater bay is of course a private-owner site and I'm puzzled

about a tale that complete strangers can just turn up,

and people are supposedly being drawn into conversation with them



most folks are hospitable but there are certainly spoilers out there,

trying to make trouble for the local property market



if such a thing should ever really happen to you

the management company if you have one, or constabulary should be notified

they will be able to assess the situation immediately



in the very unlikely event anyone offers papers

or asks you to sign something, the police should be contacted at once

and under new regulations the suspicious characters will be arrested

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 19:21

surprised no further comments on this unusual story

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 19:24

andre



could be another orams case in the not to distant future if the talks don`t succeed....

andysue


Joined: 12/11/2007
Posts: 891

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 19:36

total and utter bulshit , worry not its a GC scam post,

long live the kktc

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 20:00

surely you mean long live Cyprus andysue? after all that is where you chose to live or have your holiday home this small island called Cyprus...

andysue


Joined: 12/11/2007
Posts: 891

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 20:26

juliet, suzzane , or what ever your name is , you can say what ever you want about turkish cyprus but the truth is the NORTH will be sepperate from the south and all us brits who dared to invest will come out smelling of roses ! just go and do your house work.



Edited by AJ.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 20:53

keep a baseball bat behind the door: and use it to make a "citizen's arrest"



long live the kktc

Arthur


Joined: 04/11/2008
Posts: 687

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 21:28

Blimey Andy- chill man. The person concerned is always out for a GC slanted wind up. I'm surprised it hasn't provoked a response from her mate "don't tell them your name Pike"



Arthur

andysue


Joined: 12/11/2007
Posts: 891

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 21:33

hi arthur im in agresive mode due to my team not turning up today



andy

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 21:42

pikey is studied in his replies, he knows this thread's a load of old xxxxxxxx

what I dread is mmmmmm hitting us with more nonsense about annan 2004

say what you like about juliet she does espouse the purest least complicated

hardline gc-nationalist statements of the all main infiltrators on cyprus 44

but where this will really get any of them in the long run, I've yet to discover

canyavuz


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 363

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 21:47

hahahaa.....i suppose he thinks that this magical lawyer of his is going to get his land back for him! If he has the power to do that, he can do anything!

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 21:50

can,



it is only a wind-up: they must be getting really desperate

craig2536


Joined: 09/06/2007
Posts: 277

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 22:59

why didnt someone ask rms to check the video cameras that they have on site to see if these people really were there. they have cameras on the entrance gates. I am sure rms would love too prove this rumour either way and stop all the gossip

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 23:15

I am very disappointed and saddened to read the naive yet spitefully vindictive and threatening comments against anyone it seems that dares to mention something that some simply don't want to hear (i.e "take care d" on more than one posting). It was reported that a GC family had visited, spent some time with them and claimed that the land belonged to them. Well, whoopy do. Are you telling me that knowing that the site is on 'exchanged land' that it comes as a traumatic shock that the 'owner' (whether he is or not, does it matter, and bare in mind there is little they have presumably done other than visit so far))pays a visit. Has this not been done may times before? Has the earth moved as a result? No. On the other hand can I be forgiven for thinking that the venom directed at the messenger is borne out of panic? Why not accept that someone WILL try and get compensation at some time (let the politics take their course), meanwhile sit back and continue to enjoy what you have?

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 23:25

Hector,



Excellent and pragmatic post, my man.

The-Wicks


Joined: 27/05/2007
Posts: 2279

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 23:32

Hector - agree with Macha - excellent post!!!!!



J



PS Cannot but notice, certain members postings have more than a hint of desperation about them. This is from a completely unbiaised point of view, by the way.



J

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 23:47

craig,



honestly it is a load of complete nonsence, but two things came out



firstly a number of us fell for it and will do again, and again probably:

while all the group behind this are very devious, clever and ingenious



but not too smart because this carry-on will never recover the north

perhaps their sights are far more modest, just to cause lots of agro



and if you think of juliet she said she spoke recently with the orams

"claimant" aristedes, bit of networking there probably



call me patronising if you will but I've never heard of any other group

that claims to be "dispossesed" carrying on in such a demeaning manner



long live the kktc

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
15/03/2009 00:09

hector,



it is not clear this incident ever really took place despite the huff and puff



there is a growing momentum in south cyprus to try to secure verdicts

in the local courts and then seek loss of use monies overseas



35 years, no brit property has changed hands over this and nothing paid



panic is the last thing anyone should do and the outcome is unclear

but is unlikely to affect the typical brit, apart from depressing property prices



the way the orams writ was "served" was underhand in the extreme and roundly criticized by the high court judge:

similar "servers" should be well aware of what they may expect in future

ie prompt arrest by the north cyprus police if they are lucky



what any of these manoevers will never ever do of course is end the partition

and do little or nothing to help the mass of refugees of both north and south



if this is all the "dissidents" and their complacent fellow-travellers

are so proud of I congratulate them

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
15/03/2009 14:38

AJ



thanks for editing andysues post.

davidoff


Joined: 21/04/2007
Posts: 438

Message Posted:
15/03/2009 15:10

Hi all,



Hector unfortunately I feel your comment was unjustified as obviously you are ill informed and are not aware as many swb owners already are of the underlying issues with certain members postings on the forum.



Many are fully aware of the risk and appreciate the truth at the end of the day but it is the manner in which it is presented is the issue instead of the infomation itself.



There is very much a history to certain postings and members that stem back much further than this original thread or posting behind the scenes that many are aware of.



As you are not aware of this then I suggest that you refrain from snide comments towards other as clearly you do not know the whole story therefore you are in no position to brand others as vicious, threatening and naive!



as usual " take care d "

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
16/03/2009 15:27

a the end of the day you chose to purchase exchange land, nobody made you do it,

so why are you now crying into your beer?

you knew the facts so don't complain, no amount of arguing about it will change the facts.

only time will tell.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
17/03/2009 22:12

it is clear that the purchase of exchange land affording local ownership

is a somewhat controversial subject on this forum, heaven knows why:

the dark side are now on their last chance to agree a proper compromise



what really bothers me is not the mumbo-jumbo and moralistic posturing

by the tricky gang of three to confuse people trying to decide what's best



but it is the lilly-livered, jelleyfish-like attitude of people

who would choose to believe any old nonsense cooked up especially for them

who wait with baited breath to see if anyone ever is really turning up

and in that remote possibility kindly invite them in for a nice cup of lipton's



a baseball bat behind the door and citizen's arrest is the way to deal with it

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
17/03/2009 23:47

sorry andre

i disagree after all what would you be arresting them for?

wanting their own land and property back?

or just being gc's?

the goverment are the people to blame and i think they should do the decent thing and put peoples minds at rest and tell them what they are going to do about the situation.

i wonder what the orams advice would be??

only time will tell.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 00:06

it is now an arrestable offence to try to serve foreign legal papers in the trnc

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 00:11

as regards the grossly over-hyped fantasy image of cosy fireside chats

with self-styled former occupiers...

they are not there for you, they are there to undermine trnc sovereignty:

the same country which affords hospitality to foreign owners of flats and villas

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 00:14

On 20 October 2006 a criminal code amendment relating to property came into effect. Under the amendment, buying, selling, renting, promoting or mortgaging a property without the permission of the owner (the person whose ownership is registered with the Republic of Cyprus Land Registry, including Greek Cypriots displaced from northern Cyprus in 1974), is a criminal offence





The ownership of many properties is disputed across the island, and particularly in northern Cyprus, with many thousands of claims to ownership of properties from people displaced during the events of 1974. Purchase of these properties could have serious financial and legal implications. The European Court of Human Rights has ruled in a number of cases that owners of property in northern Cyprus prior to 1974 should continue to be regarded as the legal owners of that property.

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 00:17

cont.



Purchasers could face legal proceedings in the courts of the Republic of Cyprus, as well as attempts to enforce judgements from these courts elsewhere in the EU, including the UK. Potential purchasers should also consider that a future settlement could have consequences for property they purchase in Cyprus (including possible restitution of the property to its original owners).



Andre: "but it is the lilly-livered, jelleyfish-like attitude of people

who would choose to believe any old nonsense cooked up especially for them."



Is the British Foreign Office speaking nonsense in it's advice to citizens too, Andre?



About time this was flagged up to people, I was thinking.



http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travelling-and-living-overseas/travel-advice-by-country/europe/cyprus

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 07:51

msg123



another one with blinkers on

zhivago


Joined: 21/01/2009
Posts: 70

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 09:28

Zis tru? the website of British High Commission(Nicosia) has information about purchasing property in Cyprus, including frequently asked questions, and information for people who are experiencing difficulties with a property purchase. This can be accessed via the following link: http://ukincyprus.fco.gov.uk/en/help-for-british-nationals/living-in-cyprus/buying-property.On 20 October 2006 a criminal code amendment relating to property came into effect. Under the amendment, buying, selling, renting, promoting or mortgaging a property without the permission of the owner (the person whose ownership is registered with the Republic of Cyprus Land Registry, including Greek Cypriots displaced from northern Cyprus in 1974), is a criminal offence. This also applies to agreeing to sell, buy or rent a property without the owner’s permission. The maximum prison sentence is seven years. Furthermore, the amendment to the law states that any attempt to undertake a transaction is a criminal offence

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 12:32

msg 125



macha reminds us about the foreign office warning yet again



let's be clear though if a buyer steers clear of south cyprus,

sensible for other reasons in my view,

there is only the smallest chance of agro via yet-to-be-established

proxy action through a uk county court for loss of use at most:

the prospect of anything untoward if it is a holiday flat in a resort is remote



meanwhile bad publicity certainly depresses prices and increases choice:

but this is exactly what the adventurous investor property wants to see



and hard though it is to accept, the foibles, traps and uncertainties

over the purchase process in north cyprus apply equally

to very many other places in southern europe and even southern cyprus



while all sorts of discussion can only help

in making up your own mind about the plusses and minuses of exchanged land,

this bit of re-typing is from the same bloke who also said he was:



"90% sure there will be a re-unification agreement by june"

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 12:43

andre,



I may yet be proved right or wrong about when reunification actually happens, but everything I say about the unsafe purchase of "exchange" property is absolutely true - and I'm backed up by the UK government among several others and international law.

joseph


Joined: 17/04/2008
Posts: 709

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 15:22

Hi Macha…

Just following your thoughts through for a sec… Again … thinking of this only in terms of SWB… which I know is simplistic… but here goes



Lets imagine the visitor above arrived at SWB with an injunction to claim back “his “land”.



Let’s imagine TRNC recognised it and ordered all 180 “owners” out and back to the U.K.



Lets imagine Mr X is now in possession.



My questions:



Who on earth would buy any apartments from Mr X while 180 “dispossessed” ex-pats are demanding action and are now themselves embroiled with courts and our friends the lawyers (having a field day). If it was risky in the first place I just cannot see any potential new buyers buying now… too fraught.



Result; one huge empty site.



This is not taking into account the many local businesses that will have half-completed orders, monies outstanding (more litigation) etc and any hope of future work dashed over night.



Result local economy ruined.



cont..

joseph


Joined: 17/04/2008
Posts: 709

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 15:26

Meanwhile Mr X is facing huge bills from local councils etc, I would imagine if people on here say costs are getting difficult re the up keep of one apartment/villa then Mr X faces same but multiply that by 180



Financially MR X could face ruin and always x 180



Seems to me the only way forward where all parties may find agreement is a fair compensation scheme as suggested by owners above?



Rightly or wrongly… they/we/the politicians can only deal with the status quo.



Rather simplistic I know but sometimes when you think certain well made points through they themselves throw up huge questions, which just goes to show the difficulties involved?



Added to all that I would imagine many people reading my post will have thought of other pitfalls both for and against



The whole thing is a landmine, no pun intended



Regards Joseph

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 16:06

macha's quotations from selected documents may well be accurate



this I will not dispute, but it is a narrow manifestation of the truth

and as for implicit truth underlying many of his well-informed postings,

this is questionable



retyping a section lifted from british foreign office warnings,

in the same posting he quotes from the notorious 2006 roc law,

passed in response to aristedes' rejection at london's high court



the fo does refer to the 2006 bill but cannot specifically endorse it

and its general transferability throughout the eu has not been established



he has often referred to alleged war crimes by turkish security forces

and again it may well be that these lurid accounts are real transcriptions of newspaper and other prints

yet few stories have been investigated by any bi-partisan body in cyprus



and no mention of why turkey reluctantly undertook the 1974 peace operation:

to free their own people from persecution, murder and likely deportation

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 16:44

joseph,



If Mr X has served his injunction and cleared the occupiers out of SWB - with the support of the TC authorities - then he's the winner and has got back what is rightfully his.



This is a huge issue for any Greek Cypriot who has been ethnically cleansed from his ancestral lands and family property only to later find hoiliday homes built on it. Why should he care about what happens to the apartments later? The land belongs to him so he can demolish them or leave them.



And in any case, why should he have any trouble selling them on if they are back in his possession? He is recognised internationally and in Cyprus as the legal owner. The expats legal actions will fall at the first hurdle as they are unwinnable. They were there illegally.

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 16:53

andre,



The message from HM Government about buying certain types of property in the TRNC seems pretty clear to me or any other legally-defined reasonable person.



Also there is nothing "alleged" about the war crimes committed in Cyprus by the Turkish army in 1974. Turkey was found guilty of murder, rape, torture and other atrocities on a vast scale by the ECHR.



The Sunday Times later published excerpts and said: "It amounts to a massive indictment of the Ankara government for the murder, rape and looting by its army in Cyprus during and after the Turkish invasion of summer 1974."



The European Convention on Human Rights is, by the terms of its preamble, an extension of the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights of 1948. The Commission’s report of July 10, 1976

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 16:55

more...



The Commission’s report of July 10, 1976 found Turkey guilty of violating the following articles of the European Convention on Human Rights:



Article 2—by the killing of innocent civilians committed on a substantial scale;



Article 3—by the rape of women of all ages from 12-71;



Article 3—by inhuman treatment of prisoners and persons detained;



Article 5—by deprivation of liberty with regard to detainees and missing persons—a continuing violation;



Article 8—by displacement of persons creating more than 170,000 Greek Cypriot refugees, and by refusing to allow the refugees to return to their homes—a continuing violation;



Article 1 of the First Protocol to the Convention—by deprivation of possessions, looting and robbery on an extensive scale.





Seems pretty clear to me, Andre. Required reading for expats next time they pay a visit to their "exchange" property, perhaps?

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 18:55

joseph,



you have thought a lot about the issues raised by the original posting



straws in the wind, the alleged incident and the so-called "history" of the person suggests that things may not have happened as exactly as we thought although, despite the the lack of any confirmation,

I would not claim there is enough evidence to label the posting "imaginative"



I doubt anyone would show up in one of the two cyprus states

with an injunction from the other side, they do not recognise each other



the bogeyman of process servers turning up with roc court papers is also increasingly unlikely since this is now an arrestable offence in north cyprus:

so if this should ever happen to anyone, call the police, it is their job...



the way forward if you, a non-cypriot, have views whether the two cypruses ,

should unite, must be a compromise settlement



but as an outsider myself and not wishing to apportion blame,

I do not believe any agreed solution can be found in our lifetime

joseph


Joined: 17/04/2008
Posts: 709

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 19:13

Hi Macha,



I take your points and I know this is all supposition but...



Was Mr Y when he claimed back the land Larnaca airport was built on told that's ok its your land do what you want with it. Obviously not... because nearly four decades later a "fair solution" needed to be found.



Back to Mr X... financially he would be faced with huge bills becoming due either way... because again thinking it through... leaving the site would not be an option...



A...demolishing the site as you say would cost a fortune

B... leaving it, as is, he would have responsibilties re maintainance etc

C... Litigation, right or wrong, could drag on for years



My point is the problem re talks must surely take ALL claims/views into consideration ie the common good, difficult as this is, and hence why I explored the compensation route because nothing is as simple as... why should he care?



I just cannot see it in black and white and think it has gone way beyond this?



Regards Joseph

joseph


Joined: 17/04/2008
Posts: 709

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 19:25

Hi Andre...



My view is always.. how do we move forward from any distressing situation?

Yes... you are right about my post being based on supposition but I was just running with it



I would never involve myself in a... who did what etc debate.. because I feel I did not live through the terrible things that have happened... so how can I ?



I am always thinking if I was in that room representing either side where could I find the common ground to move forward, because I think there is no chance of a solution until such goodwill is shown... and that's tough.



I think it was Mmm who said any politician who did as I hint at would commit political suicide and I think he is right. My hope is someone somewhere has such courage to move foreward not back... for the sake of ALL.



Or am I wrong?



Regards Joseph

davidoff


Joined: 21/04/2007
Posts: 438

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 19:36

Hi all,



As we are on the topic there is also an option D and E here?



OPTION D _It has been mentioned through the grape vine on numerous threads on here of the possibility of eventually reclaiming land and properties on it and possibly short term leasing back of properties to the owners this way.



OPTION E- Would be for the original land owner to take control of the site and operate it for themselves for holiday rental purposes etc and make an income from this.



Personally I believe that option D would be a more attractive option for the land owner.

They may obtain compensation as well as making current owners sign leasing agreements if they wish to retain ownership so the owner yet agin has to fork out monthly payments for leasing the property from them.



just my thoughts of what Ive heard or read- saying that I wounder how much of this is true???



take care d x

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 20:52

joseph msg 136,



problem about moving forward,

is deciding what is really forward and what is not forward at all:

since the gear stick has alternative sets of markings

depending on which lot did the screen printing



this is the most intractable of the world's disputes

and I'd suspect anyone who proffers a supposedly simple solution



the choice for cypriots is not actually forward or back,

but whether any proposed "solution" will leave them feeling better:

in 2004 the greek cypriot side decided not and voted accordingly

in 2009 the turkish cypriots are said to be unlikely to accept the demands made by the other side this time around



it is foolish to suggest pressing money into the palms of gc's,

who only ever asked to go "home", whatever that means nowadays



despite all this the world appears to be continuing to turn

and the two cypruses, each with its unique and very different identity,

like the galaxies in space and time, are steadily drifting further apart

joseph


Joined: 17/04/2008
Posts: 709

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 21:01

Hi Andre...



Are you saying then that in your view the only way forward is two separate independent states and ... you feel that this is/will evolve anyway...



Or one state... that works how?



Regards Joseph

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 23:29

andre

sorry a bit behind speed as usual.

what hopsitality is it that the trnc gives us foriegners?

am i missing something?

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 23:40

fire starter msg 140



"what hopsitality is it that the trnc gives us foriegners?"



more than some other places I would venture to suggest. A couple of examples from my own personal experience.



When I went to visit my partners family in NZ I was questioned on arrival as to how much money in cash I had on me and it was demmed insufficent and I was to be summarily returned back to the UK. In the end my partners family had to come and 'guarantee' I would not be a burden on the NZ state before I was allowed entry.



When my cousin came to visit us in the UK in the 80's , with all correct visas he was locked up in a cell for over 20 hours until my father could come and sign a guarantee that he would not be a burden on the UK state.



Is this 'hospitality' to foreigners ?



Has this happend to you re the TRNC or anyone you personally know ?

joseph


Joined: 17/04/2008
Posts: 709

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 23:50

Erolz ,Andre...



Maybe I can only speak for myself but I would venture the hospitality of the people of North Cyprus is wonderful, as are they, sure there are unscrupulous people around , where aren't there?... but your hospitality is most welcoming which explains in my case why I visited and will continue to do so etc etc.



But then thats just me



Regards Joseph

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 23:56

Let me say that the hospitality of NZ people was great. Nice friendly bunch. However how the NZ STATE treated me on my arrival there was anything but 'hospitable' and was in reality down right rude and offensive.

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
19/03/2009 00:18

Joseph,



I agree Mr X would have to decide what to do with his regained property, but to be pragmatic, he survived for 35 years down south and can most likely manage a couple more until Cyprus gets sorted one way or the other.



As for Mr Y, his land was taken by compulsory order to build a new airport after the main one became inaccessible - due to the Turkish invasion. He'll get his money in due course as the law is on his side and mutual agreement is bound to happen eventually.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
19/03/2009 00:30

hi everyone,



the most basic hospitalty is leave to set up home or flat in north cyprus:

and some people with uk passports all too easily take this for granted

there is often hospitality and charm in north cyprus though not always!



regarding "two separate states" that is seen as a "problem" real or imaginary,

I believe this is the reality on the ground, and one day the trnc will be accepted



as I remarked above, it is not for foreigners to tell cypriots what to think

but it looks very much that while there are such strong undercurrents

pushing inexorably towards the final and permanent partition of the island,

if caught very quickly it is still just possible cypriots may decide otherwise



as to what is really best all round, well it depends on who you are doesn't it?

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
19/03/2009 00:37

Amazing just how quickly the story of a GC visiting can wind people up and turn the topic into yet another no win argument over the rights and wrongs of the Cyprus intervention...

norths4me


Joined: 19/04/2007
Posts: 269

Message Posted:
19/03/2009 00:39

This thread is so repetitive and boring time it was closed

joseph


Joined: 17/04/2008
Posts: 709

Message Posted:
19/03/2009 00:45

Macha,



Not to strain the point in our supposition but a couple of years maintainance, council tax etc, would be huge for 180 apartments surely.



What effect would such "re-claiminging" have locally, aesthetically/economically?



Given current demographics would you not agree that the "compensation" route seems to be the surest option?



Why do you think Mr Y has not been paid as yet?



Is compulsory purchase do you think an option for both sides should two states continue to evolve should no agreement be reached?



Regards Joseph

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
19/03/2009 00:49

joseph,



did you ever consider going away for a meditation break?



you seem a really nice bloke but I am beginning to worry about you



andre

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
19/03/2009 00:54

Compensation would be the easiest way but we are second-guessing Mr X, who may be so stinking rich that he doesn't care about local charges - the main thing is he got his property back. Academic either way.



Academic aslo for Mr Y. I don't know anything about the Larnaca airport case other than a TC is said to have made a claim for some - but far from all- of the land it is built on. I would say payment will be made at the end of the talks one way of the other, but again I am not a fly on the wall.



I think davidoff may be a monsignor, BTW. Get right in there. Only messing, davidoff.

joseph


Joined: 17/04/2008
Posts: 709

Message Posted:
19/03/2009 01:01

Sorry andre ... I will stop asking questions



Blame my education, I was always taught the best way to learn was to ask



No more from me on this... promise



Regards Joseph

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
19/03/2009 01:15

oh blimey joseph you make me feel so guilty



but I heartily agree with hector that however "vital" these issues may be



the thread is now going in ever-diminishing circles and is about to



"xxxxxxxxxx xx xx'x xxx xxxx"

girne


Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 438

Message Posted:
20/03/2009 13:44

there is no such thing as GREEK LAND. Where do these greeks get it from! There is TMD, Eşdiger land and Turkish. As far as l know every one was compensated and if they where not then they should go back to there Greek Goverment and ask for compensation.

The need to stop looking our way for this compensation.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
20/03/2009 14:27

girne,



I agree with you,

it is also called "republic of cyprus pre-1974 title"



even after 35 years anyone holding such deeds may hope for compensation

if they feel they have been unjustly deprived of the property

but because the two cyprus states do not recognise each other

there are only two ways to go...



a personal claim through the european court:

this is expensive and if "successful" will at best, only yield a few crumbs relating to supposed loss of use, and has yet to be proven anyway

also the named party must have assets in the eu etc etc

besides turkish cypriots can't do it since the republic of cyprus'

position is they may "go home" any time, unrealistic as this is



or a universal compensation programme may be set up

via an all-embracing settlement perhaps as a result of the current "talks"

this seems even less plausible than the first option since, despite kind words and a cordial atmosphere, all indications are the two sides cannot agree

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
20/03/2009 14:45

Dear Girne re msg 153



"there is no such thing as GREEK LAND. " Quite right.. Cypriot land STILL owned by Greek speaking Cypriots.. YES...



"There is TMD, Eşdiger land and Turkish. As far as l know every one was compensated and if they where not then they should go back to there Greek Goverment and ask for compensation. "



1/ There is the RoC land registry that official hands out tile deeds for Cyprus..



2/ There is a region of Cyprus where the govt does not exercise effective control, and the de factor "regime" - which THE ECHR confirm is Turkey's vessel would have folk "believe" that there is some "agreed" form of "exchange".. MOST sane folk know that is patent nonsense..



3/ That is WHY *TURKEY* has been asked by the ECHR to provide a local remedy, and why folk who feel they have been disenfranchised should be piling in to test it out...



4/ OR.. who knows the talks might bring about another solution.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
20/03/2009 15:23

mmmmmm re: msg 155



looking at the clock, your message was posted barely eighteen minutes

after my message 154

but as much as one hour and one minute after girne's message 153...

and so I am really bound to wonder if it is to me you are "also" replying



nonetheless my message 154 is innocent and non-contentious,

although you might prefer to read into it certain things never really there

though you do respond to girne re the controversial topic of "exchange land"



your point of view and frequent supporting references have been posted

very many times, and indeed find wide acceptance throughout europe

among many honest people of good character



however, and although you did not reply directly to my posting,

may I refer again to a couple of phrases I used,

with which any sincere person of honourable intent could hardly disagree:



"the two cyprus states do not recognise each other"



"all indications are the two sides cannot agree"

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
20/03/2009 16:18

can I take it everyone agrees with my comments in postings 154 and 156?

Scythian



Joined: 14/03/2009
Posts: 75

Message Posted:
01/02/2010 14:10

A year passed. Has anything changed?

andy-f


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 1256

Message Posted:
01/02/2010 18:15

no one seen or heard anything from the so called greek scince the so called encounter

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
01/02/2010 18:31

If it is situated in the TRNC it is TC land until a solution, then the owner will be given fair compensation for the land.

Although at the moment it ain't worth much, even less with a heap of rubble on top.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
02/02/2010 00:34

re msg 160



Well that is 'your' opinion.... ! So it is a shame that more Cypriots don't 'test out' local remedies .. when the cost of compo / loss of use claims mount for both 'sides' THEN a compromise will be found..



Following a recent out of court settlement by the 'rump" RoC - to an elderly TC lady from Larnaca - we should see more TCs claiming - without the daft/ unfair 'six months residency in 'govt controlled area' rules..



In this writer's opinion.. the TC lady is still the owner of her place in Larnaca, too !