are you satisfied with your legal Advocate

anomug


Joined: 19/01/2009
Posts: 53

Message Posted:
24/01/2009 23:14

I have had two and they both leave a lot to be desired, and that's being nice.

anomug

PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
24/01/2009 23:41

tell me anyone who is happy with there's after two years not many i bet !!!!!!

anomug


Joined: 19/01/2009
Posts: 53

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 00:44

Pipie,

they seem to be a law unto themselves. They treat us so disrespectfully once they have received their fees.

anomug

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 00:48

Sounds like British Gas, Virgin Media, BT, or any other british company thats abandoned customer care ?

Quarmby


Joined: 15/09/2008
Posts: 975

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 10:45

Same goes for the utility companies here in the TRNC.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 10:57

I pointed out many times on this board and others that most people recommend lawyers without any foundation. Indeed most go the lawyer who workds hand in glove with the vendor and obviously everything goes very smoothly for getting the sale agreement signed, absolutely no hitches. Based on this experience people recommend their own lawyers.



The trouble begins long afterwards when you really need that agreement and then it dawns on you that it was all one sided.



For example I have seen sale agreements which state that the vendor may cancel the agreement without any reason, pay back your money and 300 pounds compensation and you have no other rights left. Now you may ask, your lawyer who approved such an agreement, was he/she really working for you or the vendor? I can give lots of other examples but what is the use of it now?

ismet

PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 12:02

Well said Ismet .

But yes more examples please ? this could certainly alert new buyers , and could start a debate on peoples experiences . Cascading this info can only be positive .

negativenick


Joined: 10/11/2008
Posts: 6023

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 12:31

if we had all been given honest and acurate legal advice - NONE of us would have bought here !



Nick

mountbatten


Joined: 12/04/2008
Posts: 102

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 12:45

elco2,

Are you saying the lawyer take £300 compensation if you cancel your agreement

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 12:53

anomug,



Its not just the advocates, but their governing body BARO that is lacking.



Where is professional Indemnity cover, for negligence?



wyn

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 12:55

Ismet...msg 6.....sage advice.



We have had nothing but great service from our advocate so far and have moved into our apartment.



However....even at this stage I would NOT openly recommend them to anyone because we have still not got our PTP or Kocan yet.



Too many people rush to recommend their advocates in the early stages,based on a few meetings.

As Ismet says,the majority of problems come right at the end.....maybe 2 years or more after the original meeting.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 13:26

Msg. 9:

Mountbatten asked "elco2,



Are you saying the lawyer take £300 compensation if you cancel your agreement "

My msg. 6 was clear really, if the VENDOR cancelled the contract the buyer would get just 300 pounds compensation.

ismet

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 13:39

Msg.7

Pipie wrote:

"Well said Ismet .



But yes more examples please ? this could certainly alert new buyers , and could start a debate on peoples experiences . Cascading this info can only be positive . "



One has to look at the whole agreement and look for trouble spots. This is a job for the legally trained persons really and it is not possible to give a list of all possibilities. Vague statements like "the vendor will endevour to complete the development by the end of 2007" is a good example. It should be a definite date. Also if the buyer is late on payments he/she has to pay penalty and sometimes the vendor has to do the same. In the case of the buyer if the buyer fails to pay for over say 2 months the vendor can cancel the contract but usually the same thing does not apply to the vendor. Thus the buyer is not given a right to cancel the contract etc. etc.

ismet

mountbatten


Joined: 12/04/2008
Posts: 102

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 13:52

elko2,

Thanks,it was just that i sent Peyman Erginel of Girne £1,300,i was quoted £100 for the search,certain reasons made me pull out of the agreement,Peyman Erginel deducted £300,and then had the cheek to deduct more from my bank account for the transfer of the money.

I have asked for a print out of what i got for my money,as yet nothing,doubt if i ever will.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 14:07

Msg. 14:

I do not know how far you were with the negotiations for buying a place but I think she acted very reasonably. I cannot think of anything less. If she had to transfer the remaining money back to you, of course you would have to meet the costs of the transfer too. Sorry, I am not with you on this one.

ismet

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 14:34

If i had my time again i would have had the contract looked over by a UK Solicitor , in turn this contract would then be re written (IF NEEDED) being fair to all parties . I f the developer wants your sale , there should be no problem Does this makes sense .

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 14:51

Msg. 16

Pipie,

That would be a big mistake because a solicitor in UK may not know of all the laws applicable in TRNC e.g. Specific Performance Law, PTP etc. You would be far better off if you employed an experienced lawyer here in TRNC after making absolutely sure that he/she is fully independent of the other party and also make clear that he/she would get her fees irrespective of whether the agreement is signed or not. The fee must be based mostly on the work done and not the end result. If the sale does not go through becaue your lawyer has been to diligent, would that reduce his/her fees? See msg. 14 above to see what I mean.

ismet

billybuck


Joined: 12/11/2008
Posts: 27

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 15:55

elko2,

Wish i could agree with you,done very little i can assure you of that, most of my information came from the HBPG,which was then sent to the advocate.the £300 has cost her dearly as regards new customers,as regards me paying the bank transfer fees for my money back,i also paid sending it.

Would i be correct in saying that your wife is in this line of work.

Whats your thoughts on not recieving a print out on what my £300 was spent on

I consider my self lucky that it was £300,there is also a principle here.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 17:18

Msg. 14 and 18

I am confused, are Mountbatten and Billybuck one and the same? It does not really matter but curiosity took the better of me



Msg. 18

Billybuck asked "Would i be correct in saying that your wife is in this line of work."

Strictly speaking the answer is yes as she is a practising advocate although she hardly does any conveyancing and she is really a litigation advocate and not one of those copy and paste types. So you have discovered a big secret, congratulations. In Turkish we have a very well known saying:"Even the deaf Sultan in Egypt heard about it" i.e. it was no secret at all but presumably you wanted to imply something. I will carry on expressing my opinion regardless, you can be sure of that.

ismet

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 17:50

yes, we are totally happy with ours.

PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
25/01/2009 21:02

firestarter how long have you been with your solicitor ? and have you got your deeds ?

anomug


Joined: 19/01/2009
Posts: 53

Message Posted:
26/01/2009 00:31

Yes Wyn you are right .But I am told that BARO insists that advocates are registered with them, but does not control or regulate them.

anomug

anomug


Joined: 19/01/2009
Posts: 53

Message Posted:
26/01/2009 00:43

Nick, You have said it all.

anomug

PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
26/01/2009 10:40

Elco .



I do not think that looking through the contract by a UK would neccesary mean he would have to have in depth knowledge of the TRNC law .

Surley the UK solicitor would just need to ensure that certain things were written in to protect the buyer . And to ensure things were not leaning in the sellers favour , as i said fair on all sides of the contract .



Still have not had any positive feedback from any satisfied customers here , so are we to assume that there are not many . ?



On the other hand a buyer can always challenge what was not wrritten in a contract stands ,such as a when developers/builders insist on asking for add ons such as extra money for this , extra money for that . Buyer simply turns around and says , Sorry i am adhering to my contract .

negativenick


Joined: 10/11/2008
Posts: 6023

Message Posted:
26/01/2009 11:30

Mess 10 - you can't get professional indemnity insurance in the TRNC...



The insurers who provide this cover wouldn't deal over here....



Nick

keithcaley



Joined: 13/06/2008
Posts: 2521

Message Posted:
26/01/2009 11:59

Message 24, As I understand it -

The Specific Performance Law (SPL) makes nonsense of any contract, it doesn't really matter what goes into it, because neither party can persue the other in a legal action for 'non-performance', i.e. failure to comply with, or act according to the terms of the contract, UNLESS such action is started within a strict timescale from the date of the contract. I think this is 2 months, but will stand corrected.

So, the Vendor will point out to the buyer that they have to pay this and that, within so and so timescale because "it's in the contract" - and the law abiding (and ingenuous) buyer complies.

When the buyer tries to insist on compliance, the Vendor laughs, and says "Sue me" - knowing full well that he is well protected by the SPL.

In my experience 'Locals' never pay on time (and certainly NEVER in advance!)- they know full well that the only way to encorage the Vendor to come up with the goods is by witholding payment.

contd...

keithcaley



Joined: 13/06/2008
Posts: 2521

Message Posted:
26/01/2009 12:00

It is a battle of nerves that they have played for centuries, and that we are, sinmply, not very good at.

The Vendor appears to hold all the cards, and is the only one who actually knows the rules, and importantly, is quite prepared to show complete disregard for them.

It seems to me that as most Advocates here get the bulk of their income from house sales, they prove reluctant and inept when it comes to taking legal action against them - after all, they don't want to kill the Golden Goose, do they?

And your UK solicitor of course cannot take action in TRNC.

I would hasten to add that this jaundiced view does not apply to all Vendors, or Advocates - there are many honourable people here.

However the honourable people are not the ones you need to worry about - they will treat you right anyhow!

It's the others - and no contract will help you when it comes to dealing with them.

Best regards,

Keith.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
26/01/2009 12:01

pipie

about 4 years and yes we do have our deeds.

PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
26/01/2009 12:24

Well i would say that was a recommendation , thanks fire starter , would you name the advocate for us please ?

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
26/01/2009 12:43

gurken and gurken in girne.

now i guess your shocked.

PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
26/01/2009 13:15

Thankyou fire starter , not at all , speak as you find i always say . Thanks again

anomug


Joined: 19/01/2009
Posts: 53

Message Posted:
26/01/2009 23:40

Keithcaley,

I would like to second everything you say. A regulatory body regarding Advocates might be a step forward but I doubt it, as I fear that only lip service would be paid by such a body concerning complaints. There appears to be an endemic attitude in the estate agents, the constructors, the legal system, sometimes including the judiciary, that we are fair game and that they are not really breaking any law. Of course this is a generalisation and it does not apply across the board but I think it exists by and large.

anomug

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
27/01/2009 17:18

anomug

how can you think that the system thinks we are fair game?

nobody put your arm up your back and made you buy here.

not the agent, the advocate, the judiciary only yourself.

hence you must take resposibility for your own mistakes and stop blaming others.



there has been loads of information available on the internet and from the embassy ect regarding warnings about buying in the trnc and now some seems to include the roc as well.

remember this is a relatively new country (trnc) so how can you expect a legal system equivilent to the uk's?



yes things do need to change here but laws and rules take time.

maybe you would find that they are not breaking the laws of the trnc but would be breaking laws if in the uk.

i can see that you don't live here in cyprus so to be honest you are talking hearsay!

after all as a tourist how do you know what goes on here?

anomug


Joined: 19/01/2009
Posts: 53

Message Posted:
27/01/2009 23:39

Hi firestarter,

I am truly pleased that every thing has gone so smoothly for you and you are happy. Yes you are correct nobody put my arm up my back, not the agent Unwins who transfered my deposit illegally to another site without consulting me ,not the advocate Munir Akil, who returned my fees because he re fused to sue, not Uz & Bay Investments Ltd who admitted to not owning the land in the contract of sale.It is not their fault it is mine for trusting them when we had all been warned. I have been to court five times over the past two years in an effort to recover my money, the case is still ongoing. I have experienced a great deal during these court appearances, but it would not interest you , it is only hearsay from a tourist.

anomug

anomug


Joined: 19/01/2009
Posts: 53

Message Posted:
08/02/2009 23:27

Fire starter,

The silence is deafening.

anomug

manko


Joined: 14/02/2009
Posts: 13

Message Posted:
24/05/2009 17:02

Hello Anomug,

sorry to learn of your plight. I am in the same boat. Any reply regarding any success or general

information would be appreciated. Thank you.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
24/05/2009 17:22

The buyer is the innocent victim. He is simply paying for what he has bought according to his contract of sale. Fire starter, stop blaming the victim and start acknowledging the obviously corrupt system. The real sharks here are the estate agent, developer, land owner and advocate. To make excuses about not being forced to buy, it being a young inexperienced country, blaming yourself rather than others or being a tourist is ludicrous and frankly insulting. Perhaps if you have nothing constructive to offer except excuses you would be better off saying nothing!



You sound like one of the British Politicians making excuses for their actions.



Good luck anomug, hope everything works out OK. Keep us informed of how things turn out. It would be heartwarming to know that justice can be achieved through the courts.



Being trusting is not a sin.

ilovekibris


Joined: 18/05/2009
Posts: 394

Message Posted:
24/05/2009 17:45

bradus,



surely f s is one of the most knowledgable on the BB and should not be castigated just for being blunt? Its true what she says we all knew the place was dodgy from the outset. Some of us avoided being burned by doing our homework or buying legal title others took the chance and got stuffed. We're all big boys and girls and should start with the assumption that dishonesty and corruption is at the heart of the state and act accordingly.

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
24/05/2009 19:48

Bradus

message 37



Excellent post. sick to the back teeth of all the apologists. A young country indeed!.I have a young grandson who knows its wrong to steal.



Its like blaming me for getting shot by a mugger in America ,after all ,didnt I know they have access to guns.

Nobody twisted my arm to go there, or forced me to go to the cashpoint ,so my fault.



Firestarter,

the south has its problems as well ,can you not just agree that one should not have to put up with corruption anywhere,and for once leave the argument about exchange land etc out of it. Its getting really tiresome ,we get the picture, we know your views,

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
24/05/2009 20:28

ilovekibris.



It might be your opinion that FS is one of the most knowledgeable persons on the BB but many would disagree. I am not castigating FS for being blunt......just for the excuses she gives for the wrong doings that many have experienced. Many of us have chosen to buy legal Title deeds and have also done our home work but in truth this does not ensure 100% that your sale will go through smoothly. Look at all those waiting for their PTP on Turkish Title Deeds.



What you are actually saying is that if you don't do your homework and you are gullible or trusting then it is acceptable for some corrupt individual to swindle you out of your hard earned money. Sorry but I always thought being dishonest and stealing money was the crime not being gullible!