Bank safety

zcacmxi


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 388

Message Posted:
02/02/2009 17:11

After seeing Bradford & Bingley, Northern Rock & the Icelandic banks all collapsing in the UK, and now Natwest/RBS/Halifax/Lloyds all being rescued and majority owned by the UK Government, I'm a little wary of even the most established banks.



I've read previous posts that the TRNC government covers up to a certain amount, but waiting years to get my money back in the event of failure does not seem attractive.



Does anybody have information regarding the Capital Ratios / Security of the Banks in Cyprus? The interest rates look more attractive than the more established banks, so I'm tempted.

negativenick


Joined: 10/11/2008
Posts: 6023

Message Posted:
02/02/2009 17:18

it's cheap houses and greed that got us into this mess !



Nick

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
02/02/2009 17:32

zcacmxi.....you list your occupation as Banker.



Surely you already have access to more inside information than us mere mortals could ever offer?

zcacmxi


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 388

Message Posted:
02/02/2009 17:50

I'm in the UK. I do have access to Credit Ratings from Moody's, S&P, Fitch etc. I also have access to the CDS rates on Bloomberg.



But only larger international names are listed. No "local cypriot" banks are listed. I have no information about Turkish Bank, CreditWest, Universal, etc.



Wth no information, I'm reluctant to touch them. With no information, I can only look at the High Interest rates and take them as a warning!

zcacmxi


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 388

Message Posted:
02/02/2009 18:07

I've got the list of all the local banks from the Central Bank website here: http://www.kktcmb.trnc.net/ser/turkce/bankalar.htm



But how do people distinguish between those that are adequately funded and those that are not? Looking at these forums, it seems that people are going with the one that has got English speaking staff, and has the least queues and best customer service, highest rate etc...



Looking at CreditWest website "Financial Indicators" section, I'm seeing an empty page: http://www.creditwestbank.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=39&Itemid=63



Surely, for a relatively new bank this is one of the most important pages that should have been completed first!

lovingcyprus


Joined: 02/03/2007
Posts: 1272

Message Posted:
02/02/2009 18:15

The higher the interest rate offered the greater the risk as I'm sure you are aware

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
02/02/2009 18:19

zcacmxi

Unfortunately there are some that are chasing fools gold. If you research the banking collapse in the TRNC (about 9 years ago) then that will give you a good indicator of the banks that were more prudent than others.

AJ

zcacmxi


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 388

Message Posted:
02/02/2009 18:21

If we did that, then we could list the banks in order of the interest rate they paid, and say the one that paid the least was the safest, and the one that paid the most the least... But then the weakest bank could fool us by lowering rates to hide amongst the safer banks...



I've found the Financial Statements for CreditWest on their website, and am looking at those..

eager


Joined: 23/02/2007
Posts: 1272

Message Posted:
02/02/2009 22:59

zcacmxi, please post your findings, creditwestrep is very approachable i'm sure he would be happy to answer your questions.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
02/02/2009 23:12

zcacmxi

There are certain banks that are aiming their products primarily at British/other expats, now for me that rings alarm bells and you will find that those banks targeting expats will always offer a higher interest rate on fixed term savings, but at what cost? Hence my posting about chasing fools gold.

AJ

joseph


Joined: 17/04/2008
Posts: 709

Message Posted:
06/02/2009 14:15

Hi Z...



As ever AJ gives sound advice in m10, what he is saying is do your research and ask lots of questions. One thread you will find interesting and should read through is the CreditwestBank thread.



I myself have signed up with CreditWestBank but one of the major points you will learn from this thread is no TRNC bank covers you for Internet fraud which for me is a major factor as it discourages me from online banking.

Hopefully, again because of that thread, CreditWest and perhaps other banks will look at this security gap and fill it as most UK based clients would find internet banking essential, esp as for most of us it is an everyday guarantee?



Regards Joseph

CreditwestRep


Joined: 04/11/2008
Posts: 214

Message Posted:
06/02/2009 14:54

joseph I have shared what we discussed on the Creditwest Bank thread with our IT people and they will write about the Internet Security and how we are effected in the TRNC.

joseph


Joined: 17/04/2008
Posts: 709

Message Posted:
06/02/2009 19:55

Thanks CreditWestRep...



As you can see this subject is definately ongoing and once out in the open as it has become on this forum it has amazed me how many people have hesitated to open an account because of internet fraud questions. As I have said, back here in the uk, it is not even a question one would consider because all banks give such security guarantees, but in TRNC where buyers may be transferring what could amount to life savings it is a matter for grave concern.



Anyway once again if there is one bank looking into this subject with urgency it is CreditWest... all credit to you and them... well done.



Regards Joseph

turkcitizen


Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 35

Message Posted:
12/02/2009 08:59

well as long as safety is considered I wouldn't prefer high interest which eans high risk. higher loans=higher risk particularly in such an economy of n.cyprus. we all know difficulties faced by banks in england, still continuing, it wouldn't be better in n.cyprus to overcome any crise in this economy. reasonable investments means reasonable deicisons and interest rates...

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
12/02/2009 09:26

Going with good customer service etc appears to as safe ,if not safer,than looking at "safety" contained within the credit agencies.Lets face facts......Equitable life,and most of our"safe" banks in the UK and the West generally,have gone into financial nose-dives,on the back of low interest rates,"good fiscal advice" from our "fat cat bankers",and ignoring sensible advice of whistle-blowers! Hello........how far up your colon,do have to have your head,o not realise,we really cannot take the "moral financial high ground" on this one.Buying Zimbabwean dollars is as safe as "banking" in the UK at the moment."Bankers" from my educational establishment of my youth were the very people who were greedy,self interested sociopaths,who would never have got the grades to cut it for entry to medical school!

newscoop


Joined: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2197

Message Posted:
12/02/2009 10:07

Nicely put Clarets!

turkcitizen


Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 35

Message Posted:
12/02/2009 17:51

msg 15, how about kuwait national bank, have you heared about it, do you think it may face difficulties happened to banks in england?

timefore


Joined: 01/08/2008
Posts: 495

Message Posted:
12/02/2009 18:10

Does anyone know any back ground on Continental Bank?

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
12/02/2009 18:18

Continental Bank where?

timefore


Joined: 01/08/2008
Posts: 495

Message Posted:
12/02/2009 18:23

Hi No1 Doyen, Continental Bank in Girne

bankadan


Joined: 14/12/2007
Posts: 979

Message Posted:
13/02/2009 08:57

What about Kuwait Bank? Do not understand?

turkcitizen


Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 35

Message Posted:
13/02/2009 16:54

MSG 21, do you think kuwait national bank would face bank difficulties as happened in england?

zcacmxi


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 388

Message Posted:
13/02/2009 18:39

Taken from Moody's rating of Bank Financial Strength:



TURKEY:

Akbank C-

Anadolubank D

Denizbank C

Eurobank Tekfen D-

Finansbank C-

HSBC Bank A.S. C-

Oyak Bank D+

T.C. Ziraat Bankasi D

Turk Ekonomi Bankasi D+

Turkiye Garanti Bankasi C-

Turkiye Is Bankasi D+

Turkiye Vakiflar Bankasi D+

Yapi ve Kredi Bankasi D+

zcacmxi


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 388

Message Posted:
13/02/2009 18:44

To Compare banks in United Kingdom:



Abbey National plc C+

Barclays Bank PLC B

Britannia Building Society C+

Chelsea Building Society C+

Cheltenham & Gloucester B+

Co-Operative Bank Plc C

Egg Banking Plc D+

HSBC Bank plc B

Lloyds TSB Bank Plc B+

Royal Bank of Scotland plc B+

zcacmxi


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 388

Message Posted:
13/02/2009 18:46

National Bank of Kuwait B-

zcacmxi


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 388

Message Posted:
13/02/2009 18:47

The banks in South Cyprus:



Bank of Cyprus Public Co. C-

Hellenic Bank Public Company Ltd D+

Kommunalkredit Int. Bank Ltd C

Marfin Popular Bk Public Co. Ltd C-

kiria


Joined: 15/01/2009
Posts: 19

Message Posted:
13/02/2009 23:06

timefore,

I requested Kibris Continental Bank to send me a copy of their ballance sheet and profit & loss statement.

They replied that they don't share this information with cutomers...

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
14/02/2009 00:18

clarets:



''...who would never have got the grades to cut it for entry to medical school!''



Whıch one dıd you go to?

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
14/02/2009 00:35

msg 28 probably the one that cut your brain out , and transplanted it into a greek

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
14/02/2009 01:12

rowlo,



Always good to have a braın worth donatıng, eh?

croft



Joined: 09/02/2009
Posts: 65

Message Posted:
14/02/2009 02:46

Going back to the original question and assuming that as investors you'll *consider* putting your money with banks in any countries, there are other ways of calculating your exposure to risk.



In general terms - banks offering higher levels of reward will be taking higher risks. But you should also look at the *consequence* of risk at a wider level. That means looking at government guarantees against personal investors' losses but also the chances of the government being able to pay out in the event of catastrophic failure.



The US will recover from its banks' losses in a way that, say, Iceland cannot. That's mainly because Iceland's banks went down owing something like 12x Gross Domestic Product - in other words, they all but busted the country.



With the Bank of England talking about 6% contraction to the UK economy, a bank rate of zippo and Lloyds shares sliding over the edge, what are 'safe' investments?



I'm spreading my bets - but it's worth Googling league tables of d

croft



Joined: 09/02/2009
Posts: 65

Message Posted:
14/02/2009 03:18

Sorry, to give some pointers on the earlier post:



UKs 4 biggest banks about 400% GDP

Netherland's biggest banks ditto

Bank of Cyprus 253%

Turkish banks - I don't have any stats as yet

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
17/02/2009 06:46

trust nobody this is cyprus!