TRNC exchange land

smurfit


Joined: 27/10/2008
Posts: 6

Message Posted:
18/02/2009 08:04

Hi There cant seem to get on the board ,hopefully this one will ,am buying over there ,am told the land is esdeger land ,think that means it has already been exchanged ,is this so, and how safe is it ...

cooper


Joined: 23/10/2007
Posts: 3386

Message Posted:
18/02/2009 08:10

Have a look through this link smurfit - http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/4963.asp



Cooper

rocky


Joined: 17/10/2007
Posts: 1749

Message Posted:
18/02/2009 08:16

a typical reply from you cooper who wants to read 126 postings many of which are pure rubbish and not too helpful a reference/link to more factual info would have helped Smurfitt

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
18/02/2009 08:40

Then why not post a helpful reference/link for smurfit yourself then rocky ?

keithcaley



Joined: 13/06/2008
Posts: 2521

Message Posted:
18/02/2009 08:40

Rocky,

Feel free to post the reference/link to more factual info...

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
18/02/2009 08:51

How about this one:



Form the UK High Commission in Cyprus..



http://ukincyprus.fco.gov.uk/en/help-for-british-nationals/living-in-cyprus/buying-property



"esdeger" .. land was NOT "exchanged" - the real owners were forced to abandon it .. THIS is specifically the type of land the UK Foreign and Commonwealth Office website is referring to...

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
18/02/2009 09:09

The only land that is "safe" is either pre 1974 turkish or UK title.



Do not be conned by estate agent speak.



That said the large majority of UK people, like ourselves have bought "unsafe land" and if anyone tries to take it off us there will be another war!!!!



Unfortunatley if you wish to know more of the pros and cons you must explore as much literature on forums, books etc and then decide for yourself. Whatever you do listen to anything your estate agent or solicitor may tell you but then go away and do more research.

cooper


Joined: 23/10/2007
Posts: 3386

Message Posted:
18/02/2009 09:11

Hi again smurfit, it looks like you have asked this question before - http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/10998.asp



Cooper

rocky


Joined: 17/10/2007
Posts: 1749

Message Posted:
18/02/2009 10:11

If I knew where the factual information was I would have referenced it. I was interested myself but less interested in a thread with a load of twaddle and personal comments. Many wars and conflicts have resulted in land being occupied by one or another party why should cyprus be any different. Can anyone give any previous example of where any compensation was even considered or what was paid. I am not an expert on history but who owned the land that Isael ans Kuwait occupy? Was any compensation paid. Please cooper dont refer to another thread. OK you can but I wont look it up.

bootneck



Joined: 23/06/2008
Posts: 242

Message Posted:
18/02/2009 10:20

If land was handed back this would open a huge can of worms, it would not only stop on Cyprus but who knows the Indians will have a case for America.



Neil

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
18/02/2009 11:44

You mean the "Native Americans" bootneck ?



It could go on forever....Aborigines in Australia...Mayan/Aztec descendants in South America.....etc

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
18/02/2009 20:41

re msg 10, bootneck



Aha, that old "chestnut"





There are now international laws that protect owners re ethnic cleansing / displacement..



That's why we have things like the Eurpean Court of Human Rights - and Turkey is a member and MUST abide by the rules.. those rules cover "TRNC" - for whom turkey is regarded as the effective controller.

DONTY


Joined: 07/06/2007
Posts: 534

Message Posted:
18/02/2009 20:49

mmm



you seem to have missed my question to you so here it is again.



You have posted 843 times in less than 2 months, thats about 14 posts a day, every day, without a break, wow!!! Are you sure this isn't a job for you?



Why do you invest so much of your time in trying to push the GC cause/arguement? You dont live here, have property here, What's in it for you?

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
18/02/2009 20:55

msg13 hes a wind up merchant?

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
18/02/2009 20:57

mmmmmm

The laws that you pertain to have had very little consequence upon the ethnic cleansing/displacement issues that have been evident across Eastern Euorope and Eastern Mediteranean.



It is accepted that the motive and intent of the ECHR is a noble one. However, like all legal constitutions, it has its failures. Displaced persons and Human rights is one such failure.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
18/02/2009 20:58

mmmmmmmmmmm may have cypriot relatives, and why shouldn't he?

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
18/02/2009 21:00

on the payroll?

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
18/02/2009 21:01

Rowlo msg14 and he is very boring and so far up his own a**e

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
18/02/2009 21:06

I always find it fascinating when people try to analise MM and his postings. As he lived in Cyprus for a number of years until the bureaucrats made it impossible for his poor wife to live there he probably has more knowledge and information that people like donty will ever achieve.



Come to that who is donty, he/she cannot even tell the truth of who and where they are so why should we even allow them to post on this forum.

clayton


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 1143

Message Posted:
18/02/2009 21:08

going of the subject a little.i used to have a greek cypriot neighbours.they had come to england to go to university.speaking to him one day and told him i had been to north cyprus on holiday and spoken to some turkish cypriot lads who were very nice.is reply was is that what you call them there is no such thing.ow forgot to mention he said he liked england.but as soon as he gets his qaulifications back home hegoes.

DONTY


Joined: 07/06/2007
Posts: 534

Message Posted:
19/02/2009 00:11

cyprishome



been here 6 years. not drinking brandy sours, working, in the biz, every day property related. sold or overseen sales of somewhere around 1000 properties, talk regularly to lawyers, locals, tourists, biz owners old soldiers (TC and UK) and even GC's on occassion. read the papers for years, most of the books, know where to find RnB clubs, house, turkish pop, I can tell you where the best fishing is (but wont), got lawyer and cop friends, get discount at lots of nice restaurants. Can drive the back roads to most everywhere, know where to look for shrooms etc etc blah blah

Just cos i dont spout the same old political rhetoric day in day out dont mean a thing. I have a right to question mmm motives if i want.

This forum used to be about helping each other find our way around, now all it is, is politics and armchair experts spouting crap about the property sector and people like u tryin to outdo each other.

When was the last time u posted something just to be helpful?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
19/02/2009 00:26

Re Donty - msg 13



Really sorry if I missed your Q.. where did you ask before?..

Anyway I get answered the Q daily.. perhaps that makes up a lot of my posts ;)



1/ I'm not pushing the "GC side of things".. the link above is a *UK* one..



2/ Sorry, but not in the "pay" of any pro GC group..( Pilgrim) in fact as CiH says -msg 19- We left Cyprus as the Roc wouldn't let my wife work or grant her permanent residency / ID card / Visa free travel - we took Cyprus to the European Commission and the Cyprus Ombudsman - we "won" - await a fair settlement - hardly the RoCs "best friend" at the mo..!



3/ Lived in CY ( both sides) long enough to see the property "booms" and predictable crash..and more importantly got immersed in cross community meetings and met some REALLY interesting and diverse locals



4/ ABSOLUTELY no relatives - by marriage or blood - Andre- you have had that explained to you once before - when you alluded to the same. Does an oft repeated lie, the truth make ?

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
19/02/2009 00:31

Buying property abroad has always brought with it levels of risk, wherever it may be



Legal systems abroad are often very much different to what UK citizens are used to. Local and de-facto situations are often strange, irrational and without comprehension to us suburben brits.



Cyprus property issues are explained very superficially on the FCO web site.



Most buyers will have done their research, performed their own risk assesment, and made financial and prudent decisions accordingly.



It is clearly the case that some participants upon this forum deem it helpful to undermine and mock these mature and sensible adults that have clearly made their own clear decisions. Those said participants should cease their unhelpfull mockery and get on with their own lives and decisions.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
19/02/2009 00:37

I think mmmmmmm must have a link to south cyprus but he is coy about it

he seems to have an awful lot of time on his hands though....

he's scrambling my brain and totally alienates everyone from his "cause"

the point is about cyprus and much of human existance

is that many things will not or cannot be easily resolved or fixed as it were:

so there is a lot of anger pain and injustice in the world surprise surprise



problem for the gc-apologists is they can try a spoiling operation but little else

it's frustrating that so much discussion in '44 is wasted with this gobbledegook

which makes it that much it difficult to advise and discuss the real problems



andre

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
19/02/2009 00:43

Waz, a good post again.

These people have nothing better to do with thier time........sad really

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
19/02/2009 00:58

I love this 'having done your research' rubbish. When your own lawyer is likely to lie to you or fail to tell you the truth because 'you failed to ask the right question'? A friend was consulting his lawyer today who told him point blank that the TRNC Government has made it clear they don't give PTP on Turkish title land. Anyone found that out by research? How about the forthcoming result of the Orams case before the ECJ which at the moment (and probably the actual outcome) which basically makes anything other than Turkish title or pre 74 non Greek Cypriot owned land not only worthless but actually a liability.

DONTY


Joined: 07/06/2007
Posts: 534

Message Posted:
19/02/2009 01:16

hector



if you are getting at me read the last line of msg 1 of this post http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/10880.asp



research doesnt only mean here but includes the world property market, news, blogs, lawyers, current owners etc etc



Buying property is part science and part art.



think i'm gonna stick to helping people find the best pizza for a little while (manipeni) cos this just goes round and round in circles like a dog chasing its tail, a sure sign of madness!

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
19/02/2009 01:23

Dear Waz re msg 15



"The laws that you pertain to have had very little consequence upon the ethnic cleansing/displacement issues that have been evident across Eastern Euorope and Eastern Mediteranean. "



Really ! .. then I think you need to do a little more research on some ECHR court rulings re property.. I just searched google under ECHR property -Cyprus ( as so many CY hits were returned)



an example.. note how many Turkey HR rights their are....



"However, like all legal constitutions, it [ECHR]has its failures. Displaced persons and Human rights is one such failure. " .. on what do you base this statement..?











It is accepted that the motive and intent of the ECHR is a noble one. However, like all legal constitutions, it has its failures. Displaced persons and Human rights is one such failure.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
19/02/2009 01:33

oops.. the last paragraph was a "mistake"..



re Waz , 23



"Cyprus property issues are explained very superficially on the FCO web site ."

Nonsense.. pretty specific warnings- without quoting specific cases..



"Most buyers will have done their research, performed their own risk assesment, and made financial and prudent decisions accordingly." .. not what I read here, often..



"It is clearly the case that some participants upon this forum deem it helpful to undermine and mock these mature and sensible adults that have clearly made their own clear decisions. Those said participants should cease their unhelpfull mockery and get on with their own lives and decisions."



I hardly think offering the "official line" out side of "TRNC" / TR bias - is undermining, nor mocking...

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
19/02/2009 01:43

Msg 6...do you mean that the losers ran off?

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
19/02/2009 01:47

Msg 13,Donty......havent you worked it out....it is his entire life.........the Prince of sadness has returned,anorak et al!

smurfit


Joined: 27/10/2008
Posts: 6

Message Posted:
19/02/2009 07:54

Wow ,massive can of worms, work away alot thats why didnt pick up last threads, sorry ,have read them all ,some very helpfull, it clearly states in the faq for this property, that this land has been exchanged ,this looks, as i gather ,not to be the case,what a mess out there ,we have a solicitor who has been that slow and inneficient ,we have lost one property due to time constraints etc, now this ,didnt know anything ,anything, could be this complicated seems almost impossible to ever sort.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
19/02/2009 09:08

if you have a particular set of beliefs this will affect the phraseolgy used,

which may cause a great deal of confusion



for example invalid and should not be legally recognised becomes "illegal"

when referring to un votes on north cyprus

"dead-alive hole" substitues for plagued by spiteful isolations and discrimination

and meaningful peace talks, shadows the term "sibling rivalry and charade"



one set of interpretations would still see you taking a punt on north cyprus

but as always, a fool and his brain are easily parted by propaganda



andre

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
19/02/2009 09:42

Dear Andre re msg 326



It might help readers if could explain where the terms originate and quoted correctly..



"LEGALLY invalid" is the term used by the UN Security Council re the "declaration" of "independence" of "TRNC" .. legally invalid = not legally valid .. not legal = illegal ..



Semantics, possibly, but it reads rather different wit the correct term , don't you think?

AlexF065


Joined: 07/09/2009
Posts: 271

Message Posted:
12/09/2009 22:45

Right

I am at this moment doing the due diligence part of my looking into TRNC

what i Have so far discovered is you need to buy either a home that is already completed

on pre 1974 either international or Turkish owned land

or a piece of land and interview quite a few architectes and be able to get hold of building standards

have a watertight contract written out going into extreme detail as to the building and finnishes you want

I think if you are going to do the land thing you need to be able to live in TRNC and project manage the whole thing

that is why you need to have detailed contracts for all the trades you need

I am hopeful that a kind person will be able to give me a link to TRNC building codes ect

As you might have read on another thread I am very keen to build as near as dammit a ZERO energy house

which may cost 25% more but as energy costs spiral the payback time reduces at this time i think it will be around 10yrs to get that portion of my money back

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
12/09/2009 23:58

As much as many people are willing to help you, AlexF065, with your present misconceptions it's doubtful that you are yet prepared to listen.



Have you not read the numerous threads re estate agents, 'lawyers', contracts of sale, permission to purchase, etc, etc?



The best possible advice is: go back to message 6, open and read the link very carefully - then assess the viability of your plans from 'scratch'.

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
13/09/2009 20:18

msg35

Do yuourself a favour and get your PTP before you pay money or even put signuture to any paper.

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
13/09/2009 20:27

Yorgozlu....msg 37



With all due respect please give me the names of any builders / developers / estate agents / or private vendors who will allow you to pay nothing,or just a nominal deposit and then wait 2 or 3 years until such time as you get your PTP.



I'm not saying that your advice is wrong...I'm saying that it has no grounds in reality and people will NOT be able to follow the course you suggest.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
13/09/2009 20:47

Wise words Yorgozlu,



In short what you are saying is, you cannot buy in the TRNC, unless of course you know builders who would hold property and wait the 2-3 years it takes to get your PTP. If this is the case, please let us know who these builders are?



If people took your advice would the building industry not come to a standstill? Would this action lead to TC unemployment and a lack of overseas investment? Yes I am sure it would. However it is sound advice and one that all future buyers such heed. Only when people do adhere to this Governments advice and demand their PTP before entering into a contract, will they see the folly of their ways and change this unworkable rule Such action would also affect the builders,advocates and estate agents. Pressure to change would soon come from these sources too.

bellapasta


Joined: 12/03/2009
Posts: 99

Message Posted:
13/09/2009 21:11

hi smurfit.

u have to check how did the actual owner got the exchanged land. if the owner had only a couple of donums of land left in the south and ended up getting so many donums of exchanged land here then if there is solution one day (which i dont think so) then it can be a problem.

exchanged land doesnt always mean that its not safe

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
13/09/2009 21:40

Bradus;

Thank you,now I know there is at least one person knows what I am trying to point out.



I dont care if the building industry comes to standstill,DO YOU?

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
13/09/2009 21:56

It would not make any difference to me or my family but it would make a big difference to the Turkish and TC families that earn their living from this industry. Most of these families earn little enough as it is. Do I mind if they are pushed into even more poverty? Yes I do, as I happen to believe that everyone deserves a decent standard of life and that all children should have security and stability.



Waiting for PTP before buying a property is however simply not going to happen. A much more likely scenario will be that people recognise the TRNC for what it is and they will buy elsewhere. Sadly this will have the very effect one would wish to avoid: lack of investment, unemployment etc. But this is what happens when Governments concentrate on short term gains rather than looking at the long term needs and future of their people.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
13/09/2009 23:04

Yorgozlu obviously believes his government is right with their PTP policy.



Perhaps, if he and his government took time to think it through and realise the disastrous ramifications for TRNC, its people and its image, especially in this global financial crisis, they will swiftly amend this ridiculous, unworkable law for everyone's benefit and, hopefully, revitalise their biggest earner in their stagnant economy.



At present they seem to be counting on some huge influx of Russians - b*gger the Brits!



Wake up, nowhere in TRNC has the infrastructure of Limassol!



Also, the Russians won't be 'shafted' so easily and meekly as the Brits - they'll have their (real) Kalashnikovs - 'Brinsley's (fictional) Bazooka' will become redundant!

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
13/09/2009 23:32

msg 43;

"my government"



No thank you,I gave up on them long before I came back to Cyprus,whilst in UK.

I do my own things my own way.

If you want to see proof,be in Ministery of Education to see who I am tomorrow before midday.

More then capable of putting myself in prison whilst fighting for what I beleive is wright.Done it enough times in UK,and would do it here as well without split second of hesitation.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
13/09/2009 23:44

Good on ya, Yorgozlu - I like your style - cool!

MarkVPiazza


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 530

Message Posted:
14/09/2009 13:11

If you get your police check done in the UK, the Land Registry and Military could be easily done in a morning.



Too many civil servants with nothing to do, trying to justify their existance, is the problem.



The PTP could easily be done as a part of the post-agreed sale, but before contracts are exchanged, much like local searches on a UK property.



Mark

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
14/09/2009 20:15

MSG 46;

When we start compairing is when we shuld start planning to go back.

In UK, things were done UK way.

In Cyprus...!!??

AlexF065


Joined: 07/09/2009
Posts: 271

Message Posted:
14/09/2009 21:32

message 36 I am quite happy to listen to reasonable people who are not trying to tell me i need to be mortgaged for ever to buy in the south.



I just wish to know how much protection there is in buying a property on pre 74 land that was or still should be Turkish land.

Are people who are not Turkish nationals allowed to buy?

ect

I have read all about the builders but then again these things happen in all countries the UK included or how did wimpy not put a damp proof into my relatives house and had to move them out for 4 months to do remedial work and retro fit a damp course!!!

or Persimmon build homes over old mine workings in scotland then one morning half the gardens were gone!!

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
14/09/2009 22:04

Alex



Have to agree with tenakoutou message 36,if you think moving out a house for a few months to get a damp course done is on par with what goes on here.

In the UK you have recourse to law ,here you have none ,that doesnt mean you will not do all right in the buying process but its safer to avoid taking chances, thats why never buy off plan,and check the owner has deeds, that way you know you can get them as well.



There is a difference with the examples of what happened to the homeowners of the Persimmon homes Bet Persimmon had to remedy the work ,or give a home in another area or reimburse them. No way were they allowed to say tough luck ,no way could they get away with ignoring the contract..In the UK you can get your money back if what you purchase is "not fit for purpose".



On another point.How do you get a watertight contract? You can write everything into it, cover all the angles,but if its not enforceable it is useless.







Anyway none of our business,

MarkVPiazza


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 530

Message Posted:
15/09/2009 12:01

Yorgozlu



Ref mess 47



I'm fine with doing it the Cyprus way, but what is the Cyprus way?



The government said PTB takes 6 months when we bought our land, we've just got it after 5 1/2 years



It's the continual changing of unwritten rules that makes Cyprus a minefield.



If you want foreign investment in the TRNC, the authorities need to stick to what they have said, and the legal system needs to function - without that, the economy is doomed.



Mark

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
15/09/2009 12:37

One of the laughable anomalies is that the Turkish Army can, and have, requisitioned pre 74' Turkish Title land and property, as well as pre-owned GC; yet, citing the Turkish Military as an excuse, the TRNC Council of Ministers refuse PTP to mainland Turks buying pre '74 TT - not to mention foreigners!



Since so many TC's dislike Turks, and vociferously say so, how is it that the Turkish Military 'turn a deaf ear' and grant PTP to TC's, yet refuse their own nationals?

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
15/09/2009 17:51

Cont'd:



It's even more ridiculous that so called 'Ech' land should be refused PTP for any reason!



Actually, being granted PTP for 'Ech' shifts the onus of ownership onto the foreigner, who then pays the TRNC 'Transfer Tax' for the dubious privilege of 'ownership' which, as EU law stands, only renders the 'owner' to the potential liability to GC litigation and possible arrest should that person enter RoC.



No worries - perhaps the Turkish government will pay any compensation, if it ever comes to that - after all, it sanctioned and continued to condone the sale of these properties to foreigners - the foreigners have only been supporting the TRNC economy by obligingly buying!

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
15/09/2009 18:25

msg 50;

Is it the government that says,it takes 6 months to get your "PTP"?

OR

Is that what you have been told???.......ie.Estate Agent,Lawyer??



msg 51-52;

Going by your "profile"!!

1-You are not TRNC citizen!

2-You are not Turkish citizen!

SO,

as they say in english,

MIND YOUR OWN BUSSINESS.



Try blaming EU for a change,because,if they had not taken Greek Cypriots in to EU,NONE OF YOU TODAY WOULD HAVE HAD ALL THE WORRIES.



SO,

with 5 different nationalities and 2 properties in TRNC in a so called Greek land....I shall carry on relaxing.



ENJOY