Turkish Airlines Plane Crashes at Amsterdam

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
25/02/2009 12:16

On SKY news a Turkish Airlines plane has crashed on approach to Amsterdam

flightholiday


Joined: 19/07/2007
Posts: 3217

Message Posted:
25/02/2009 12:27

The only news yet available from BBC is just saying it has happened on CNN I have taken the following from their cnn.com web site



(CNN) -- A Turkish airliner crashed at Amsterdam's main airport about 10:40 a.m. Wednesday, airport officials said.



It was not immediately clear whether anyone was hurt. The plane crashed at Amsterdam Airport Schiphol, the Netherlands' main airport.



The plane, which was flying from Istanbul to Amsterdam, was carrying 135 passengers, reported CNN Turk.





I hope that no one is injured and that there has been no loss of life.

Harold2555



Joined: 19/04/2008
Posts: 1139

Message Posted:
25/02/2009 12:31

From BBC



A Turkish Airlines plane has crashed on landing at Amsterdam's Schiphol international airport.



The plane, with 135 passengers on board, crashed near the A9 motorway and suffered significant damage.



It was Flight 1951 and was a 737-800 aircraft, the airport said.



There were no confirmed reports of casualties. Reuters news agency, quoting Turkish media, said at least 50 people survived unhurt.



Schiphol is the fifth-largest passenger airport in Europe



Harold

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
25/02/2009 12:59

Here is the URL of the Dutch national broadcasting channel (NOS). They have reporters on the spot and show live pictures of everything going on there. The language is Dutch, but you can listen to the BBC radio.



http://www.nos.nl/journaal24/index.html

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
25/02/2009 13:21

No one died thank goodness

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Turkish-Airlines-Plane-Has-Crashed-While-Trying-To-Land-At-Amsterdams-Schipol-Airport/Article/200902415229361?lpos=Home_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15229361_Turkish_Airlines_Plane_Has_Crashed_While_Trying_To_Land_At_Amsterdams_Schipol_Airport

flightholiday


Joined: 19/07/2007
Posts: 3217

Message Posted:
25/02/2009 13:27

Update from the BBC:



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7909683.stm



It was Flight 1951 from Istanbul and was a Boeing 737-800 aircraft.



Witnesses have spoken of seeing at least 20 passengers walking from the wreckage, with luggage scattered about.



There were 127 passengers, including a baby, and seven crew on board.



Earlier reports said there was one dead, but Turkish Transport Minister Binali Yildirim later clarified that no-one had died.





Dutch television reported that rescuers had been hampered in getting to the scene because the field was recently ploughed.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
25/02/2009 13:45

Hector: Reporters near the crash in Amsterdam said one hour ago that they counted 4 and maybe 5 dead passengers. There will be a press conference at two o'clock (Cyprus time), which is 1 o'clock in Holland.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
25/02/2009 13:59

Press conference at Schiphol Airport delayed till 2.30 pm (Cyprus time). Live coverage (possibly also in English) here: http://www.nos.nl/journaal24/index.html

Sandie


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 251

Message Posted:
25/02/2009 14:08

On AOL news it states all survived. Lets hope that is the case.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
25/02/2009 14:44

Official now: 9 passengers died and 50 were wounded (25 seriously).

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
25/02/2009 18:04

further update now on bbc news the flight deck members are still in the cockpit feared dead. News states over 200 oassengers and expect the death toll to rise. The aircraft broke in 3 pieces. Its terrible. No news what caused the crash.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
26/02/2009 09:16

Crash, update 09-02-26, 9 am (based on Dutch sources): 9 dead (including 3 pilots), 80 wounded (6 in critical condition).



PS. What a terrible performance of the Turkish Minister of Transport, who shortly after the crash near Amsterdam, from Istanbul or Ankara offered the world this statement: "No casualties". No people on the spot of the crash knew the situation exactly - but the Minister *knew*. He later apologized, but I think he's not fit for his job anymore.

aripointer


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 189

Message Posted:
26/02/2009 09:32

DC



Conflicting reports all day. It was not until 2pm UK time it was confirmed the number of dead and injured. Earlier reports stated no casualties -only injured on all networks.



I think it is unfair to point a finger at the Turkish Minister of Transport. He was getting the same info as all the news stations and the Dutch police.



CNN news was reporting it was an Airbus 380 (a super jumbo) that went down. Even they could not get it right?



Our thoughts must go with the relatives to those who have died and hope the injured all survive.

AP

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
26/02/2009 09:54

RE msg 14, aripointer : (...) . He was getting the same info as all the news stations and the Dutch police. (...)



===> I disagree with you. No-one was having or getting any information about casualties for quite some time. Officials on the spot said what they should say: "We don't know yet". (I followed for hours the aftermath of the crash on Dutch radio and television as soon as the reporting started). And the highest source in Turkey, a Minister in Ankara (?), should have been even more careful than the officials on the spot of the disaster. Imagine the feelings of the relatives of the (dead) passengers/crew in Turkey!

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
26/02/2009 12:51

Hans



You are right. I watched it on Sky news who got someone on the ground as well as speaking to someone at Schiphol Airport who stated that it was too early to say how many casualties there were.



What is interesting is that CNN Turk reported that the Turkish Minister of Transport had stated there were no casualties but within seconds Reuters reported differently. Sky reported the that there was conflicting information.



I can only imagine what the families of those on board would have been going through.

snakes



Joined: 28/10/2008
Posts: 1512

Message Posted:
26/02/2009 12:58

reports on bbc news last night suggested the plane ran out of fuel thats why there was no fire as plane broke up !!

if thats true then whoever responsible for fuelling Turkish airlines planes will have to live with this terrible incident !! hopefully not too long !!!

aripointer


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 189

Message Posted:
26/02/2009 13:55

Snakes.



I dont think the plane ran out of fuel?

If it was short of fuel the pilot would have asked for priority landing.



The problem could be the same as the 777 crash at LHR. Fuel starvation to the engines.

The pilot of the plane landing in front of the Turkish plane reported geese and swans on the approach to ATC. So it could be a bird strike similar to the Hudson river ditching.

Another point their were three pilots in the cockpit usually two. Either it was a training flight or the third pilot was hitching a ride. Who knows?

AP

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
26/02/2009 14:06

RE msg 18, aripointer : (...) Either it was a training flight or the third pilot was hitching a ride. (...)



===> This kind of plane is usually flown by a captain and a first officer. The third person can also be a flight inspector.



It's also interesting that the captain was one of the most respected and experienced pilots of Turkish Airlines. And he and his co-pilot only saw a kilometer from Schiphol that he ran out of fuel? Hard to believe. Furthermore I understand from Dutch sources that any plane approaching Schiphol must have enough fuel to circle for 45 minutes before landing (enough also to find another airport if Schiphol suddenly has to divert all flights for some time - like yesterday, when two runways were temporarily closed).

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
26/02/2009 14:27

Hans



you are right that planes must have enought fuel for the emergencies which may happen in the scenarios which you describe.



Aripointer if it had been a bird strike and it would have had to have been a double bird strike then the pilot would have informed the control tower. Details of the conversation between the pilot and the ATC were played on Sky news yesterday and there have been no mention of a bird strike.



When the incident happened at the Hudson the Captain informed the tower and it was in the press just afterwards. Even now what happened is going to be mere speculation until the results are published.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
26/02/2009 14:38

RE msg 20, Stubs : (...) Even now what happened is going to be mere speculation until the results are published. (...)



===> Two "black boxes", with recorded (technical) flight information, are now in Paris for analysis. The first impressions will be given during a press conference later today, it was announced in Holland a couple of minutes ago.



BTW: a friend of mine in Holland, living close to the place of the crash, made this video shortly after the plane had come down: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGCAJ0dKkEw

ROBnJO


Joined: 30/06/2008
Posts: 1289

Message Posted:
26/02/2009 14:52

snakes



An Aircrash Investigator said last night that explosions or fires were more common with empty fuel tanks as it is the 'vapour' which is much more volatile than fuel itself. He also said that all modern aircraft, even running on 'empty' have reserves of 'dirty' fuel in the bottom of the tanks (possibly contaminated with small amounts of water/oil/dirt), which pilots can switch to.

Airlines only recommend it's use in dire emergencies, as it's use will result in the plane being grounded for extensive and costly maintenance.





Stubs



I listened to the ATC recording a number of times on Sky news, but they appeared to only be releasing recordings from after the incident. It will probably be some time until they release recordings relating to the incident, as is usual in most accidents.



I have heard that the quick release of ATC conversations in the Hudson incident was due to radio 'hacks' who listen in. Forcing them to officially release them earlier than usual.



Rob

aripointer


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 189

Message Posted:
26/02/2009 15:11

ATC live after the crash.



http://archive-server.liveatc.net/EH...Post-Crash.mp3



AP

snakes



Joined: 28/10/2008
Posts: 1512

Message Posted:
27/02/2009 12:28

Thanks Rob ! I find it amazing that the BBC are able to make such accusations without fact ! they didnt even say alledgedly !! why dont they just ask the pilot assuming he survived ! "Oi Murat wot appened" ?n then we'd all know !!

cheers

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
27/02/2009 17:50

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/domestic/11101165.asp?gid=244

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
27/02/2009 18:22

RE msg 25. From the link: (...) Turkish pilots association says "wake turbulence" likely crash cause. The Turkish Airlines plane crash in Amsterdam is likely to have been caused by "wake turbulence" from a larger aircraft, ruling out the earlier suggestions of an engine problem. (...)



===> Conclusion: "We don't know what the 'black boxes' from the airplane will tell us, but the Dutch in the control tower are likely to be guilty".



The Minister of Transport of Turkey: "I said 'no casualties', because I was dependent on Dutch authorities for my information".



===> Conclusion: The Turkish minister knew within an hour after the crash what the Dutch authorities didn't know or say after five hours.



It's disgusting.

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
27/02/2009 18:55

stubs: What is interesting is that CNN Turk reported that the Turkish Minister of Transport had stated there were no casualties but within seconds Reuters reported differently. Sky reported the that there was conflicting information. I can only imagine what the families of those on board would have been going through."



Exactly. Idiot clown that he is. They're not just in the TRNC...

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
27/02/2009 19:17

snakes.. It appears non of the three piots survived,so they will have to wait till the "black "boxes are analised.Having read through several reports and looking at various pictures of the wreckage it appears to have hit the ground tail first,which might suggest the trainee pilot may have stalled it,which would result in the very rapid descent to theground,and the tail breaking off.Does not seem to have been much forard movent after impact which again seems tosay it stalled...Only my opinion,probably way out and something entirely different was the cause...

aripointer


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 189

Message Posted:
28/02/2009 20:10

DC

I think you will find the "wake turbulance" Vortex theory/assumption by the TPA does not hold up. The aircraft in front of the crashed 737-800 was a B757 it was ahead by some two mins.

The first evidence from the flight data recorders suggest. Both engines had failed prior to impact with the ground.

The flight deck crew have been named as Pilot Hasan Tahsin. 15,500 hrs flying expierience. FO Murat Sezer and Apprentice/ Training Pilot Olgay Ozgur.

Reports that one of the cockpit crew was alive for 40mins after the accident. I daresay the Dutch rescue team will come in for some flack here as nobody came in to rescue him. Yes the security door was jammed. Access could be gained into the cockpit through the RHS window.

Boeing have confirmed that one of the 4 dead Americans was one of its technicians and one technician had definitely survived.

Yes the Turkish minister may have jumped the gun. Reports by all the news stations after the crash were incorrect in one way and another.

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
28/02/2009 23:09

Aripointer ..I amin agreement with your "wake"theory.Do you recall a Trident crashing inSlough just after take off,happened inthe mid 60,s.That was the result of a trainee pilot pulling in the leading edge flaps by mistake which caused the aircraft to stall and fell vertically to the ground and split into 3 sections.Very little forward movement on impact ,no fire and unfortuneately no survivors.Some very alarming similarities in both incidents.Maybe months before we find out the actual cause..

aripointer


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 189

Message Posted:
01/03/2009 13:38

Coachie.



Yes I do remember the Trident crash at Staines/Slough I think it was 1972?



I recall the pilot had a heart condition and the investigation into the crash said his condition impaired his judgment? You are right the flaps were in the wrong position due to a malfunction of the controls on the Trident. The plane had been grounded in 1968 for a similar problem.



Regarding Trainee Pilots all pilots have to be type rated to the aircraft they are flying. This woud have been carried out in a flight simulator applicable to the aircrat type ie: 737-800. I am sure the Trainee Pilot on the Turkish airlines flight would have been under close supervision if he was flying the aircraft.



I am sure an intrim report will be out in the next few weeks?



AP