Too many crossing points being opened?

canyavuz


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 363

Message Posted:
13/03/2009 23:45

Does anybody think that we have too many border check points open? Or is this enough? Or is it not enough?



Are we openning ourselfes up too much to the ROC?

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 00:18

I agree, there is sometimes a hell of a draft blowing through those check points.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 00:28

) re msg 1



You should thank the TC Doctor who took TR to Court ( ECHR) and won the right to cross without impediment.



He is another of your "one" TCs who don't feel the need for the TR Army presence ..



Soon, *I* hope you will be able to cross as the mood pleases and a it will be possible to drive from Limas(s)ol to Kyrenia / Girne as if it was crossing from Glos'shir to Wilts, or France to Belgium or N.Ireland to Eire...

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 07:13

msg 1



why are you so intent on making life more dififcult for the tcs, ? ie, the island being one? the tcs i speak to most days in my place of work enjoy being able to come south and work, shop, visit the hospital etc, it`s there right as it is for all cypriots to use the whole of the island, Turkey should with draw & let the Cypriots in Cyprus decide there future, after all it`s now 2009......

Stewart


Joined: 19/07/2008
Posts: 1107

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 10:23

Open more, open all.....a step closer to unification

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 10:29

That is fine if re-unification is what you want!

spud1


Joined: 22/05/2007
Posts: 544

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 11:23

how many crossing points are there now.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 11:38

Even if there is no settlement, just a negotiated divorce where two separate countries exist, more open borders would probably be preferable. Open borders mean freedom of movement and a personal sense of liberation, and they also mean free trade which will increase wealth, particularly the income of TC's.

pinkchilli


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 689

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 11:38

Get rid of all the crossing points and have it like it used to be.



I mean, no need to stop between north and south.



Why do the TC's need to check everything when leaving? Who cares who leaves.



It's fine to check who/what comes in, but it's a bit farsical; you stop 100 metres from the portacabins, one person gets out with only their passport. When you actually cross, there's 4 in the car! They are mainly interested in what you are bringing in, not who.



If you need crossing points, get a grant from the EU and have it like when you leave to get on Eurostar.



Three lanes for right-hand drive and let the left-hookers and non-TC registered cars queue at some other place.



The reason I suggested putting non-TC registered cars in with the left-hookers, is because they usually take longer!



Coaches bringing tourists should have a "special" section, where only the prettiest, most helpful Customs should work. They could also hand out free drinks and some TURKISH delight.

canyavuz


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 363

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 14:09

mmmmm



be realistic. that will not happen....and in my opinion, should not.

They are two different countries, with different citizenship, and no formal agreement.

We should be able to monitor who enters our country.

this isnt a free to enter hostel!

Stewart


Joined: 19/07/2008
Posts: 1107

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 14:11

Dear pinkchilli



Think I will get a coach!

canyavuz


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 363

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 14:13

juliet....



they have no option but to use GC hospitals, and work in gc businesses.

They are underpaid......they are not given the right to enjoy their religious holidays......

do you really think a tc would prefer to shop in the south rather than the north?

its because it;s cheaper!



hospitals there are less packed and with specialized doctors......if it were like that in the north.......NO turkish cypriot would go to those in the south.



i am not making their lives harder......i am one of them.

A recent poll suggested that 60% will not settle for the annan plan, if it were presented again.

THESE MEANS, THAT THEY DONT REALLYT WANT UNIFICATION THAT MUCH.

If they did, they would settle for the annnan plan.

karakum5c



Joined: 18/03/2008
Posts: 1021

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 14:29

The EU when it allowed Cyprus to join the club did not make a distinction in regards to the north, therefore why is there a border at all.

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 14:50

karakum,



You'd better ask the Turkish army that. Are you being serious, BTW?

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 15:07

Open up all the crossings and have a big sign......."TRNC welcomes all safe Drivers and foot passenger's"

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 16:42

msg 12



its Turkey stopping the tcs having the same services on the whole island... it`s about time you took off those blinkers....

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 17:08

isolation is inflicted by polititions with their own agendas.

i bet most of their kids were educated elsewhere, but then they could afford it.

spud1


Joined: 22/05/2007
Posts: 544

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 17:21

again how many border crossings are there

Lemtich



Joined: 15/02/2007
Posts: 1487

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 17:56

There's 4 crossings that you can cross with a vehicle, Guzelyurt, Metehan and two that cross from the north into the Eastern British Sovereign Base, known as Black Knight and Dhekelia plus 2 pedestrian only crossings in Lefkosa, Ledra Palace and Lokmaki Street. So 6 in all then.



Lem

spud1


Joined: 22/05/2007
Posts: 544

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 18:18

thanks lemtich there should be more. or no borders at all.

karakum5c



Joined: 18/03/2008
Posts: 1021

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 18:27

Its going to be easier to travel in Cyprus shortly the British Governments borders agency have just announced that if you wish to travel in or out of the UK you will first have to register your travel plans on line in advance, failure to do this will incur you a £5,000 fine. No start date announced as yet.

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 18:27

quite right spud.. the green line should be wiped away all together..of cause after the turkish soldiers have also been sent back to where they belong...

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 18:43

About time you changed that record........Have you ever been to Turkey Juliet ?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
15/03/2009 00:09

re 20 Spud: How many border crossings are there?



Answer : None.. there are no "borders" in CY - only the Med !



There IS a UN cease fire line - AKA "the Green line ;)



From the UK Foreign and Commonwealth web site:

"Crossing the 'Green Line'

A buffer zone, known as the ‘Green Line’, was established following the hostilities in 1974, and is patrolled by UN peace keeping forces. It divides the island from the coast north west of Morphou through Nicosia to Famagusta. It is possible to visit the northern part of Cyprus by using any one of the official crossing points on the 'Green Line'. There are no longer any restrictions on how long you can stay in the northern part of Cyprus if you cross over."



http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/about-the-fco/country-profiles/europe/cyprus/

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
15/03/2009 00:23

agree with mark 100% there are no borders on cyprus only a ceasefire line



so that's it then?



well not exactly: both the roc and trnc operate checkpoints as if there was



ie customs control, passport checks, insurance kiosks, armed police etc etc



who was it who said if it looks like an elephant and trumpets like one,



then it may actually be an elephant?



polite suggestion: you want to stop livin' in the past matey, rots yer brain

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
15/03/2009 00:30

Dear Andre, re msg 25 don't confuse the fact that the Green Line is the first place RoC immigration authorities / SBA can exercise "control" over who/ what enters the EU with a National frontier...



The UN / EU / UK, etc manage it... you'll get there.. ! ;)

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
15/03/2009 00:56

MM



You do realise that within many ECHR rulings referance is made to 'border' and 'border area' and indivdual judges talk about "factual border between the two parts of Cyprus"



I understand the point that you are making (for the 1000s time) but I just wanted you to realise that not even the ECHR is so 'retentive' as you on this point of semantics

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
15/03/2009 01:37

no clearer about what is really behind marks posting activity, he's not in trnc

and my guess is he has gc relatives, although nothing wrong in that...



but there is a consistent thread in many of his contributions that would seek to end the partition of the island (which he would argue never happened legally)



he would claim to be non-partisan but did suggest the royal navy should have blocked the turkish peacekeeping fleet, rather than say, heping britains's fellow guarantor on with fresh supplies and a cheery wave...



but let us assume that for some reason or another the present talks are unsuccessful (yes it is possible) and claimants hanging onto the shirt tales of the orams case cannot not redraw the 1974 ceasefire map of cyprus:



then how would he see the next 25 years develop for the island and its people?

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
15/03/2009 11:55

mark, partition to continue the next 25 years?

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
15/03/2009 12:28

"25 years in the future the trnc will be very much alive and kicking"



can I take it then mark you agree with this very modest statement?



it's up to you but if you feel unable to comment I'll just ask everyone

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
15/03/2009 14:15

Dear Andre_514 re msg 28-30



Not for the first time - I have *NO* GC Blood or marital relatives ;) .. Not sure that even if I *had* it should make a difference...



You HAVE to be "inattentive" as you'd know, by now, that the RoC Ministry of Interior ( specifically the dept dealing with Immigration issues ) and my family are hardly "friends"..



re : "TRNC" - I have a little wager running with two folk..



""TRNC" will NEVER be recognised"



You can choose 1 / two / five years ..



I certainly meant to say that the RN could have stopped the Turkish fleet.. as IF you have been paying attention, you'd remember I've posted "cheering" the TR troops as they were filmed landing in Cyprus in 74...



To ErolZ: msg 27



May I remind you that the ECHR make it clear that they do not recognise "TRNC" and regard any "administration" of the area where the govt ( RoC) does not have effective control as a "vessel" of Turkey.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
15/03/2009 14:16

I read the recent judgement dealing with a GC arrested in the "Turkish sector" thanks to the link you posted and noted the error made re use of the correct terminology.. I'm sure someone from the RoC wrote and "advised" them of the error !

canyavuz


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 363

Message Posted:
15/03/2009 14:26

mmmmm,



you make no sense at all. How can you say there are no borders? There are defacto borders that exist. You really are speaking like a greek cypriot now.

The border may not be dejure, but is defacto. It exists.

I dont think you are aware of the difference between defacto and dejure.

Knowing these will help your understanding of the whole cyprus "situation".



If there are no borders, i dare you to walk through the city of Varosha......go on.....see what will happen!! There is something called "defacto" borders!



people.....do not be miss lead by MMMMMMM, he is showing his own opinions, rather than the truth and facts.



"ONLY THE MED". HAHAHAHAHA

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
15/03/2009 14:50

Dear Canyavus



re msg 33



Thank you - I'm well aware of de facto and de jure.. I'm also aware that I have to show ID to fly / take a ship between Northern Ireland or Eire to the "mainland" UK, but I'm not crossing any border when I'm travelling to / from the former ;)



I show RoC id to cross to "TRNC" - not a passport ...



The UN can't enter Varosha - any easier than I could - but it doesn't mean they accept the UN buffer zone is a national frontier.



If I'm some sort of "GC propagandist" explain to me how the UK FCO website I quote from.. it could be the Irish Ministry of Foreign affairs, or NZ, or Australia.. and many more.. refer to the "border" as I do ? ;)

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
15/03/2009 15:21

Bordermark ..take a long holiday...siberia is nice at this time of year and I am sure you 'wife' will enjoy it ...

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
15/03/2009 15:24

hi mark,



accept what you say about your relatives and roc ministry of the interior



I agree totally that the trnc will not be recognised in five years



I'd up it to fifteen years at least if ever...



this was not actually what I asked and think you are trying to split hairs



using my elephant analogy again it looks to me that the island is "partitioned"



you do not have to accept that if there are legal nicities suggesting otherwise



what would you say to this however (and I'll repeat it):



"25 years in the future the future the trnc will be very much alive and kicking"



that is most likely isn't it?

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
15/03/2009 16:05

MM msg 31



Like I said MM I understand the point you are making , the TRNC is not internationaly recognised, the green line is not an internationaly recognised border between states. You seem unable to understand the point I was making. The point I am making is that no one is as obsessed as you about the use of the word border. A boundry between two internationaly recognised states is NOT the ONLY meaning of the word border. Even the ECHR in a document as political as rulings on cases relating to the Cyprus can and DOES use the word border in its simple meaning of a boundry between two things. They know the status of the TRNC just as we do, yet they use the word border in places. Surely if it is good enough for the ECHR to do this then it should be good enough for you ? Or do you feel a need to write to the ECHR and point out their 'error' and explain to THEM the status of the TRNC as you do us ?

vikingqueen



Joined: 07/02/2009
Posts: 241

Message Posted:
15/03/2009 16:54

13... because GC want to control the whole of Cyprus and as they cannot... we do not exist in their eyes.

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
15/03/2009 17:21

andre about MM: "...and my guess is he has gc relatives, although nothing wrong in that..."



Racial paranoia or what? Is that your response to anyone with an alternative viewpoint? You still have to decide whether I'm Greek or Armenian, remember. Or maybe Turkish? I mean, our noses all look alike, huh?

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
16/03/2009 00:09

msg 36 and msg 39



I accepted what mark said, please see what I wrote in 36 above



a question I posed in this thread as well as on the orphanides thread is:



"will the trnc still be here in 25 years?"



this prompted a longish reply on the other thread which left me no wiser





though it appears to state the trnc never really existed in the first place,



and my "25 years" question is redundant: I'd imagine you'd agree that is so?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
16/03/2009 02:55

Dear Andre_514



"I accepted what mark said, please see what I wrote in 36 above "



Until the next thread.. that wasn't the first time you'd asked ;) !



Re msg DeeCyprus 35



Nice of you to join us.. perhaps NOW you can tell us " I apologise - there is not ONE Mosque in the "rump" RoC .. just ONE HUNDRED and ONE of 'em " ......



We couldn't have it said that De isn't a lady of her word.. could we ;) ?!



re msg 37 ErolZ



Actually, perhaps I should WRITE to the ECHR ! I note you don't mention that the UK, Irish, NZ, Oz, and even the US sites giving "advisories" to their citizens share the same "obsession" as me ! .....



OH, hang on a minute.. MAY BE that's where I got the "idea" ..... ;)





Ah well.. That's the weekend finished... back to SERIOUS posts..

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
17/03/2009 18:28

msg:



mark Im sorry if I harped on about you having cypriot relatives,

you don't I can see that:

and you must accept I do not now use this as an explanation for your views



and I also never said you were fanatically biased in favour of the greek cypriots

dead set against the turks and tc's, who are now in control thank goodness



finally, no claim was ever made that somebody sitting in limassol

who posts so often on a north cyprus forum must have an ulterior motive:

I most certainly have never claimed that either



if that.s inadequate why don't you sue me in one of your mickey mouse courts?

negativenick


Joined: 10/11/2008
Posts: 6023

Message Posted:
17/03/2009 19:49

"you can never have enough crossing points", my old uncle Percy used to say.





Nick

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 19:53

msg44 ..................