jay76


Joined: 17/07/2008
Posts: 532

Message Posted:
26/03/2009 20:33

I think orams may well lose this case but hope im wrong.

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
26/03/2009 20:40

jay we all hope you are wrong.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
26/03/2009 20:45

Jerremy msg 1



"This should bring to an end as to who are the legal owners of property in Cyprus and whether or not judgments can be enforced in EU countries."



It will bring and end to the second part. It has no actual legal relevance for the first part though. As far as the international community goes this has already been decided by the precedents set in the ECHR rulings.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
26/03/2009 21:09

Probably the decision will go against Orams and we will be a step nearer to permanent partition.

ismet

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
26/03/2009 22:30

the question is what will you all do when the orams lose????

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
26/03/2009 22:41

juliet

If you would want to appear a bit more unbiased as you maintain you are then rather than posting :'the question is what will you all do when the orams lose????' Perhaps you should have posted:' the question is what will you all do IF the orams lose????'

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
26/03/2009 22:42

sorry AJ



IF the orams lose what will some of you do???

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
26/03/2009 22:44

She's all of a sudden very vocal again ....now the boy wonder is back.



That ban lasted long didn't it

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
26/03/2009 22:48

turtle



boy wonder????? you have lost me....!!

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
26/03/2009 22:57

ismet

Ref message 6

'and we will be a step nearer to permanent partition.'

Fingers crossed.

AJ

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
26/03/2009 23:02

ismet's comment implicitly distinguishes non-eu citizens from eu citizens



any decision agin' the orams will advance the claimant,

already rejected by the british high court, enough to squeak through,

pending a defence campaign and the ultimate test in the house of lords



it could at most affect a small number of individuals in isolated villas

getting caught up in it over a twenty-year period

but I am not convinced it will easily translate to britain on the nod

due to the universally-agreed highly partisan history of the cyprus dispute,

and its quite devastating implications for british sovereignty



the orams saga says "nuts" to any future "holy grail" re-unification agreement:

only the most flatulent could then puff a single cyprus:

the other side are far too tricky to trust



tourism investment will be russian, israeli, turkish, s. african, arabian,

taking over from where where the brits left off



now where's that dunkirk spirit?

hattikins


Joined: 17/02/2008
Posts: 2793

Message Posted:
26/03/2009 23:03

As I've said before, if Juliet and the likes of her are typical of GC,s then two separate states is the only way forward. She shows exactly what she thinks should happen to TRNC and anyone who lives here, she is a bigot of the highest order and the thought of living alongside such people would fill a TC with absolute dread.

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
26/03/2009 23:16

well said hatti , dont need them .

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
26/03/2009 23:21

It seems to me that the only ones making all the noise are the South supporting Brits............they are not even Cypriot.

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
26/03/2009 23:25

tousha /////////////

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
26/03/2009 23:28

and away..........................you can't remember that far back rowlo !

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
26/03/2009 23:40

brill turtle , my missus did lol

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
26/03/2009 23:43

juliet,



just what can your side do if the orams lose?

the claimants may indeed become latter-day classical heroes

battling the monster

but eventually, when the dust settles,

how many former occupants will be resident

in their original properties?



100,000?



1,000?



10?



1?



less than 1?

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
27/03/2009

im loving it , shes on her own tonight, why isnt pikey , and 6xm ,helping her out with read this link http://www. morebullshit .com lol ///////////

hattikins


Joined: 17/02/2008
Posts: 2793

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 00:19

What a load of crap, any GC who thinks he is going to get his hands on property in the UK had better be prepared to take his place in the queue behind the bank/building society who will have first claim on the property. Get a life and try looking forward for a change instead of forever harping back.

I wonder what the British half of Juliets parentage thinks of her attitude towards fellow Brits, she really does relish the thought of the Brits being left homeless and penniless.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 00:32

Well I never, one suggestion that all might not be well with exchange land (in this one it's the Orams case) and out come the knives against whoever dares to mention possible repercussions. I sit back and await the vitriol.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 00:46

OK, "Children" some FACTS... ;)



1/ We don't know what / how the ECJ will rule.. we know the LEGAL advice they received from the Advocate General - but I wonder will the current ECHR ruling re allowing TR a "local remedy" and on going talks between CY leaders mean that some sort of Political "interference" will be run to "delay " things ?



2/ IF the ruling goes the way in should, from a LEGAL perspective it says nothing about the legality/ validity of "TRNC" "deeds" that we didn't all already know.. it about the enforcement of a RoC court ruling .



3/ The "gates" won't be closed as long as TR is a member of the CoE Council of Europe as it was a TC Doctor winning a case at the ECHR that meant TR ordered Mr Denktash to open up - or it would face countless expensive law suits..



4/ Permanent Partition? *I* reckon the ruling could have just the opposite effect - if TR is serious about EU membership.



5/ A ruling for the plaintiff will bring the ECJ and the ECHR on a "collisio

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 00:49

(cont)



5/ A ruling for the plaintiff will bring the ECJ and the ECHR on a "collision course" and something tells me there is a twist awaiting us ... something that will "delay" things.... may be not for the Orams' - but for other cases that could follow.

jay76


Joined: 17/07/2008
Posts: 532

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 00:59

juliet is ok but i think she is partly pike.



hope im wrong



wow mmmmmm i think im behind you on that one.

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 01:00

Msg 8 Juliet......nothing is the answer to that question,because it doesnt really matter what the judgement is....this is the TRNC !

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 01:08

Of course dt,my small minded friend........just as in the Orams case......just under £8 grand damages at the moment...........they could come looking for anyone who isnt bankrupt. You really got to start thinking things through before you post for all to see........you just exhibit your lack of gray matter!

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 01:22

Dear Clarets, re msg 32



8K damages - but the COSTS.. are the issue... even the "winner" will be "out of pocket"...



AS you know IF someone owes collectively more than £750 they can be made Bankrupt.. if one gets involved in a legal battle - BOY, can costs mount up...



Once you are Bankrupt, the Official Receiver wears your financial shoes and goes where he likes.. and can set aside financial arrangements he feels that were put in place anticipating Bankruptcy..



It's just not a place you wanna go, unless you are REAL street-wise..

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 01:30

Maybe an AVC might avoid the heavy tread of the OR in such circumstances......the winner would have to settle for maybe 2 or 3 pence in the pound......not really the prize that the little GC fellow wanted!

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 01:37

Hattikins re msg 24



"What a load of crap," How true...



"any GC who thinks he is going to get his hands on property in the UK had better be prepared to take his place in the queue behind the bank/building society who will have first claim on the property."



.. Sure they'd be an unsecured Creditor, but did you stop to think HOW could the EU citizen MIGHT ( we don't know the ruling, yet !) be in the situation of *having* to sell up ? .. You seem to have got things mixed up ..as to WHO would be in the wrong...



"Get a life and try looking forward for a change instead of forever harping back." .. Right now there are cases that are FAR older than CY were the REAL owners of properties "lost" in conflicts are regaining their homes.. it's the LAW..



"I wonder what the British half of Juliets parentage thinks of her attitude towards fellow Brits, she really does relish the thought of the Brits being left homeless and penniless."



Possibly, they knew the risks ? All speculation

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 01:56

Dear Clarets, re 34



In the Orams' case the plaintiff wants the house demolished, rent, etc. but the Orams' brief allowed their case to go to a default judgement... We will learn if / how it can be enforced, as it CAN'T be enforced in Cyprus..





I don't think he cares what he wins.. it's more about making sure the Orams' and other folk like 'em ... lose... the costs for both sides must be crippling

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 01:56

We should all sell up and move to Swat province of Pakistan......I heard piles of rubble are going really cheap there!

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 02:03

mmmmm......I for one,would not want to second guess what such a man " cares" about.He just wants to demolish someone else's HOME,allbeit on what he CLAIMS is his land.Certainly a person with some dignity,compassion and any idea of humanity would actually settle for a compromise! Such a bloody minded exhibition of throwing good money after bad suggests to me that TRNC will be forever separate,and probably much better off,for it!

elkiton



Joined: 15/03/2009
Posts: 514

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 10:02

The UK / ECHR will not enforce the ruling, it would be like inviting the government of the UK to step down as the signing of a house over to a "foreigner" would be considered instant political death.

Partition is here to stay and the "new" owners of the land will be fine.

Turkey knows what the occupants of the South are really like, and what would happen if they pulled out. Its not about a house or two, its about the survival of a race when confronted by genocidal maniacs who now own 300M euro's worth of new weaponry courtesy of Russia. The desire to push the TC into the sea is still alive and well, I experience it whenever I drive over and present my TC driving licence.

I find it difficult to believe some of the rubbish written on these boards, common sense seems to have been replaced by political propoganda.

Do some of these posters not have an inkling of the real power politics behind this Island?

Go and read the history books.



TonyE

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 10:05

Clarets re msg 38



What's with the "CLAIMS is his land.".. ?! It's precisely that sort of attitude that you'd have to bite on if you found yourself before a RoC beak... ;)



WHY should the passage of time excuse the forceful evacuation of property by ANY Ethnic Group ?



"TRNC" can't be separate.. it is either with TR, in which the fines and obligations will continue to stack up, or it's within a Federated state.



Perhaps the possibility of playing Premiership footie is going to your head and effecting the reasoning part of your brain.



Watch out for a writ in the hot tub ;)

jay76


Joined: 17/07/2008
Posts: 532

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 10:44

Would these history books show by any chance 40,000 troops killing and raping through the Cypriot countryside in 1974? Would these history books show the Turkish officers brought over in the 60's to lead TMT? Would they show how TC ministers had left plans for taksim in the offices "prior to Makarios's 13 amendments to the constitution?"





Load of crap. pikey

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 10:53

how can anyone hope for total partition?

held prisioner in the trnc at the mercy of the gov, no thank you very much.

and it will never happen.

instead of being so rude to the gc's who use this forum maybe you could consider the thought that it may be you who is on their land!

think long and hard!

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 12:35

Mark...the writ will stay in the hot-tub!How did you know about that anyway?

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 12:46

cylad are you Macha / Pikey / Eric Seans / Scaramanga ?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 13:00

Hi Clarets, re msg 47



the hot tub..



I thought anyone could use it ;)

kaiserphil


Joined: 14/12/2008
Posts: 1096

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 13:58

Erolz, message 49 - try 'dt' ......

Pearlbayer


Joined: 06/10/2008
Posts: 204

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 14:06

Oh well the TC's will get mosty of Larnaca back then , we can all go there.



NOT

Pearlbayer


Joined: 06/10/2008
Posts: 204

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 14:15

And CY lad why did the Turkish Army take the so called Greek Land in the first place. So if we are going to start talking of attrocities, exploitation and shame we had better start a new thread.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 14:21

Dear Pearlbayer, re msg 54



"why did the Turkish Army take the so called Greek Land in the first place" you meant CYPRIOT land - of course - CYPRIOTS who speak a dialect of Greek.



Are you doubting the ECHR rulings re proving ownership and how it is decided... ?



YES, the western end of Larnaca is mainly TC owned and if the RoC govt compulsorily used that land to make LCA - after Nicosia and Tymbou ( AKA Ercan where "lost") they should have paid up..

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 14:29

pearlbayer



the tcs are most wellcome to come back, some all ready have...

Pearlbayer


Joined: 06/10/2008
Posts: 204

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 14:30

mmmmmmmmm Yes if you are being pedantic I did mean Cypriot Land owned by a Greek Cypriot and your point is ???



You never answered my question re why in the first place

jay76


Joined: 17/07/2008
Posts: 532

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 14:31

mmmmmmmmmm

Pearlbayer


Joined: 06/10/2008
Posts: 204

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 14:33

Juliet.



You mean like the taxi drivers that are being attacked with base ball bats

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 14:37

no msg 59, i mean the ones that have taken up there old residences.....

jay76


Joined: 17/07/2008
Posts: 532

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 14:41

I really really do not think the tc's are going to be giving anything back, talk about it in 50 years time

Pearlbayer


Joined: 06/10/2008
Posts: 204

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 14:43

I'll second that Jay76, lunch over now. Back to work.

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 14:44

jay76



time will tell......

jay76


Joined: 17/07/2008
Posts: 532

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 14:48

That was said 35 year's ago

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 14:50

jay



the orams case wasn`t around 35yrs ago...

jay76


Joined: 17/07/2008
Posts: 532

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 14:55

That makes it all ok then x

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 14:57

Pearlbayer, re msg 57



1/ I'm not being pedantic.. it is time folk sopped calling Cypriots GREEK .. They aren't - and don't "encourage" 'em.. some would have liked that ! ;)



2/ You and I aren't board virgins .. we both know why the TR army came..some called it a peace movement - others an invasion.. that's part of the CY problem.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 15:57

dt. msg 68



"Had a recent example when a GC refugee had to relocate in Larnaca because the house was given back to a TC."



After fighting in the RoC courts all the way to the supreme court for over 10 years that is. Even then the attorney general was to appeal the supreme court decision but realised this would have only ended in a precedent setting ECHR decision against the RoC so he backed down in the end. Yes the house was eventualy returned but only after years of blocking , hand wringing and obfuscation by the RoC government. This is a SINGLE case where this has happened. Now imagine that 80% of the RoC population could be forced from their homes by such a decision and you are close to the situation in the TRNC.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 16:18

jerremy,



when you say the greeks were victims, do you mean the greek cypriots?



of course the people who persecuted the ethnic greeks of cyprus

were the latin christians of the lusignian dynasty (bellapais abbey?)

richard the lionheart passed the island to them in crusader times

and the orthodox peoples had a grim old time of it, beliefs outlawed



by the 16th century the ottomans were in charge of cyprus

and gave the greek church funding and protection



or perhaps you are referring to the greeks from greece?



they were "persecuted" by turkey...

in 1923 more than a million of them were forced to leave eastern thrace, lands that had been home to them for 3000 years

(mikis theodorakis' music of the return?)



greece had staged a botched takeover of smyrna at the end of ww I scuppered by ataturk's brilliant generalship and in the humiliating peace treaty of 1923 were obliged to lose more to turkey than they ever gained:



sounds familiar?

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 16:28

hi jerremy,



appreciate your point of view but I would always be wary



of using the word "should" in any middle eastern context

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 16:34

Dear ErolZ



re msg 70, "this is is a SINGLE case where this has happened"



I know you're fair and so I want to point out that you don't mean this is an isolated incident. There are TCs who have been able to reclaim THEIR land without having to go to court and others were, regrettably, they did start legal action and common sense prevailed.



The man who did a lot of metal bashing for me is having to move out from old Limas(s)ol as the TC wishes to return, but the delay is finding HIS family a place as they can't go back to Vatili.. :(



He voted for Annan and should be back "home"

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 16:43

Dear Andre_514, re msg 74



The danger of the history of conflict between those of Hellenic and Ottoman origin is that a potted, short, version comes across as one sided..



The UK and France *encouraged* the Greek "expedition" into Turkey that brought Ataturk to the fore..



The Ottomans did bump off "agitators" in Cyprus - there WERE atrocities as well !



Let's not forget the pogrom in 1955 - shamefully agitated.



Most of us know there is a long history of mistrust between the mother nations but thankfully the current leaders seem to be personal friends.



Can we stick to matters Cyprus? ;)

ROBIN HOOD


Joined: 26/05/2008
Posts: 238

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 16:50

Politics is making the best of the status quo, not faffing around with the "who did what to whom" from the past. When everyone realises this, there may, just may, be a way forward.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 17:01

SO EASY to get drawn into a side track, here...



Any more on the Orams' case ? ... !

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 21:12

Re msg 40 Tony E:



"The UK .. will not enforce the ruling" let's get this correct - you are saying the Courts of Eng and Wales - who bounced this to the ECJ - are going to "ignore" the judgement ! ? .. IF it isn't "delayed or fudged"..







"Partition is here to stay and the "new" owners of the land will be fine." ??!! On what do you base this revelation ?



Agre that buying all the kit from Russia is a waste of money.. as if the CY National guard could stop the TR army - and it has Bugger all air cover and the SS 300 missiles are too far away to shoot down any TR planes.. "Come on Tony" ! ;)



"I find it difficult to believe some of the rubbish written on these boards, common sense seems to have been replaced by political propoganda. " How can you say that after you just "hyped up" the GC "military threat" ?



"Do some of these posters not have an inkling of the real power politics behind this Island? " - specifically ?



Missed you, Tony...

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 21:48

jay76 msg 61



all these posts about the orams ,and the answer is simple ,you have it in one,the only bit you got wrong is the 50 years ,if you had said 150, then i would defo agree.





musin



long live the kktc.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 00:13

jerrremy,



are you macha/pike/sean reincarnated?

you seem to have very much the same depth of knowledge

with this same old conceit is hammered out again and again:



that there is a positive relationship between legal action

by some individuals in the south, and the roc taking over our part of cyprus

I would have thought exactly the opposite applies!



but then as herr goebels put it: "the bigger the lie the more people believe it"



mark, I thought you had mellowed recently, become more impartial

even crossing swords with one or two extreme hellenophones



as regards a future military solution to what you see as a "problem"

ie the actual partition of cyprus into two states,

real wars are sometimes muddled and mixed up with outside intervention,

but probably not in this case



the minds that need concentrating are those in the southern camp

with a last opportunity for reconcilliation slipping through their fingers:

but perhaps that is really what they want anyway

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 00:21

andre



"taking over our part of cyprus" since when has the north of cyprus become yours..

Tootie


Joined: 28/08/2008
Posts: 2037

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 00:31

juliet.



"taking over our part of cyprus" since when has the north of cyprus become yours..





Who is ours???



Your a part of the EU now so surely if the trnc is not a reconised country by the rest of the world then everyone is welcome.



Unless your a Greek cypriot.





tootie

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 01:01

too true phillip, it had to be said

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 01:16

I blame William the Conqueror myself, bloomin Norman foreigner coming over and invading. Look at all the the land he nicked. About time that was returned to it's rightful owners and don't get me going about them Romans....

Tootie


Joined: 28/08/2008
Posts: 2037

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 01:16

andre 514...





Dont really want2 get involved in these silly debats but.........





its friday. lol





tootie

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 01:18

i love it whatever ever thread is started we get a history lesson. Rightly so we all need to know the three sides of the story. mines yours and the truth. You all have vast knowledge but why oh why do you all say the same thing over and over. Do we all really know who conquered England Ireland Scotland or Wales and do we care. we live in peace. Let t go what will be will be. If Turkey intervenes or Greek Cyprus goes against TRNC will we change it NO

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 02:02

dt. msg 71



"Thats strange Erolz cause only 50,000 TC's moved up north in 74. From 180,000 people thats 27%. 200,000 GC's left their homes behind in the north where do you get 80%? "



I just said 80% because that is the GC claimed amount of private owned land in the North that is disputed. As to the numbers that moved in 74 I could go check these but your numbers seem a little skewed. Pre 74 the majority of TC lived in the South, yet only 50,000 moved. The 200,000 figure you give for GC includes population growth since 74 btw - the number of GC refugees is grwoing year on year - at least the way the RoC counts them.



In any case you seem to have totaly missed my point. The point it that moving people out of thier homes so the pre 74 owner can take back possesion is very contentious thing to do, even in the south where it affects a minority of the population. Think how much harder then when it affects the majority.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 02:08

Jerremy msg 80



"You are dead right, unfortunately the TCs don't want to surrender the gains the Turkish army made for them in the past."



The problem is Jerremy that the GC's do not want to surrender the gains they made in 1965 when they illegaly refused to let the TC take up their legal consituional rights and effective stole control of the bi communal RoC. If the GC leadership HAD been willing to surrender what they stole then the events that transpired in 74 would not have happened in the way that they did.



Now post 74 TC are willing to give up wnat they gained to a large degree but they expect the GC to also give up what they gained from 63 onwards. Expecting the TC to give up what they gained in 74 whilst GC give up nothing is unrealistic.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 12:10

jerremy you are macha/pike/sean and I claim my £10 debenhams vouchers

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 13:08

Jerremy msg 92



Exactly the problem. Your leaders SIGNED an agreement that gave rights to the TC community , an agreement that was legal and valid and accepted by the UN. Yet YOU decide unilateraly that actually you can just ignore it and that it is not binding, take TC communities legal and consitutional rights and think that democracy means when GREEK Cypriots want sonething that is purely a GREEK desire not a CYPRIOT one they have a RIGHT to impose such on TC, with TC having NO say in their own futures at all. This is what you call 'democracy'. It is because of views like this that we are in the mess we are in now.



If you were right by the way that the 60's agreements were legally invlaid then there is NO independant RoC. Legally Cyprus would still be a British colony.



Like I say you accuse the TC of not being willing to give up what it gained in 74 (yet we did show willingness in Annan vote) yet you refuse to give up what your community stole from us - at all, ever.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 13:09

When I see such arguments from GC it does make me despair for the chances of a unifed island :(

jay76


Joined: 17/07/2008
Posts: 532

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 13:15

erolz msg 95



good posting mate

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 13:31

Jerremy msg 98



"It is because of the view that a Turkish cypriot vote is (according to the 1960 constitution) worth more than a Greek Cypriot vote that we are in the mess we are in now."



The RoC seems quite happy that within the EU on a whole range of issues a GC vote is worth 'vastly more' than a German and British vote.



There was a valid reason why in 1960 a political balance between the two communites was necessary. That reason was that one of the communites following purely communal desires and not pan cypriot ones sought to impose its will on the other, giving them no say as to their own futures in their own shared homelands. If this had not been the case then the need for political balance between them would not have existed.



"Frankly, I would rather Cyprus reverted to being a British colony now and then applied the principles of the UN charter before becoming independent again."



Easy to say but the fact is that you leadership



[cont]

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 13:34

took a very different appraoch. They did not say in 61 or 62 or 63 'the whole basis of the agreements that gsave Cyprus indpendance are invalid and we must return to the sate before them and renoegotiate new agreements under British rule'. What they did was try and keep everything in those agreements as valid and legal that benefited their community alone and illegal remove everything in them that benefited the TC community. They PLANNED to do this as laid out in the Akritas plan.

Jimmyboy63


Joined: 16/03/2009
Posts: 400

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 13:57

If the Oram's lose the courtcase i think it will put an end any chance of the island being unified,the best the Greek Cypriot's can hope for is some sort of compensation package for there land.



Anyone who think's the Greek Cypriot's are going to drive North and reclaim there land are living in cloud coo-coo land as the Turkish Army are going knowhere.Don't forget there has been minimal bloodshed in the last 35 yrs.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 14:06

msg 98



there is a famous 1950 film by kuroswa called rashomon

three characters shelter from the rain under a shinto arch

each retells identical events in the forest as three different stories



referring to the original posting you can have one former occupant

as the "internationally recognised" owner for what that is worth:

but if he is a gc he can't ever go back, if a tc he won't ever go back



the person now living there has bought or been given the place

and holds local ownership rights, he could sell or rent out the place

and meanwhile enjoys the use of the house



from your viewpoint,

you may choose to disregard the latter form of ownership

but that in itself will not restore the property to it's former occupiers



and like kuosawa's flickering monochrome classic:

the "truth" depends on your own personal and clan identity



sympathise about keeping cyprus british, only drawback is, legalistically, queen elizabeth II would hold absolute title to your house

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 14:16

Jerremy msg 102



"We digress"



We do but I was just countering your claim



"You are dead right, unfortunately the TCs don't want to surrender the gains the Turkish army made for them in the past."



By pointing out that the GC do not want to surrender up the gains they gained (by illegal means) in the 60's. I am not trying to persuade you, I am offering some balance to your one sided assertion.



" (how's it doing BTW?)"



Very quiet currently.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 15:23

dt. msg 106



"....to give each tc the equivalent of 5 GC votes on the other hand. "



Why is it dt., do you think, that the UN works on the basis of one member state one vote, regardless of the fact that the population sizes of member states varies by several orders of magnitude? Why is it in the EU that on a whole range of issues each member state has an equal vote regardless of population size. What is the point of this giving X times more votes to one national groups people than another ? Why is it done ? Why is not seen as 'undemocratic' ?

canyavuz


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 363

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 16:54

This is ultimately the most important day for the enitre TRNC property sector.



How much will the British expats be paying in compensation?



Will the British expats have to abandon their homes? (highly doubted of course),



Or will the EU threaten to take other assets (in the EU) of thhose who dont pay the compensation?



if it all does end favouring the Orams, expect to see major property development projects, despite the economic downturn.....

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 17:02

dt , Jerremy



THe question I asked was WHY do we not have straight one person one vote systems in these insitutions ? Niether of you seem to want to answer the question asked ?



"If you're comparing the EU which should not be compared by any means to a country then why is the European Parliament on a proportional basis of country population? Why not mention that?"



Do the maths. Even in the EU parliament ( the least 'powerful' of the 3 main eu insitutions btw) the number of Brits of Germans to each MP is vastly greater than the number of Cypriots or luxenbergers. Making Cypriot and luxenberg votes 'worth more' than larger states votes in your world view.



"The UN and EU freely agreed its own rules. The majority of Cypriots did not."



As the Akritas plan clearly points out it was 'wise' of your leadership to not have a referendum on the 60's agreements for if they had the people would have overwhealmingly supported it. The closet thing to a referedum was the voting



[cont]

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 17:03

in of Makarios as president by the GC community. The man who signed the agreements. His opponent who opposed them got less than 2% I think ?

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 17:13

Just to remind you. From the Akritas plan



"It is significant argument that the solution achieved has not been ratified by the people,because our leadership, acting wisely, avoided calling the people to ratify it by a plebiscite, which the people, in the 1959 spirit, would have done if called upon."



Another place where this document shows a much greater realism than many GC today would be this part.



"From the history of many recent instances we have learnt that in not a single case of intervention, whether legally justified or not, has either the United Nations or any other power succeeded in evicting the invader without serious concessions detrimental to the victim. Even in the case of the Israeli attack against Suez, which was condemned by almost all nations, and on which Soviet intervention wasthreatened, Israel withdrew, but received as a concession the port of Eilat on theRed Sea. Naturally, more serious dangers exist for Cyprus"

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 17:18

Finally one for MM as I am quoting the Akritas plan. As far as a GC view of the legality of intervention this is what the Akritas plan had to say on the matter



"Intervention is threatened or implemented before stage (c), then such intervention would be legally debatable, if not justified. This fact has a lot of weight both internationally and in the United Nations."



Where 'before stage three' meant before the annulment of the negative elements of the treaties of gurantee and of alliance. (not not all of it just the negative elements - whihc means elements negative to GC desires)



So MM it seems that these GC had a different view to you about the legality of Turkish intervention and how the UN viewed such.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 17:29

dt. msg 115



"Everytime someone from the Turkish side wants to excuse an ethnic cleansing exercise that actually happened with actual 40,000 troops and actual 1000's GC's dead and actual 200,000 displaced....they quote from a passage of a theoretical plan that was never imlemented. Go figure."



The quote from the Akritas plan was in counter to the claim that the GC people never 'voted for' the 60's agreements. The Akritas plan sheds a very different reality on this claim. It is particulalry illuminating in this regard. To claim it was merely 'theoretical' and never 'implemented' is a gross distorition of reality imo. It shows the mindset and objectives of those that wrote it very clearly , along with the tactics they sought to use to achieve it. Some aspects of it were thwarted (namely abbrogation of negative elements of treaties) but other parts match what happend very closely.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 17:35

dt. msg 116



In matters that relates to states the sensible unit of democracy is the state.



In matters that relate to communites the sensible unit of democracy is the community



In matters that relate to indivduals the sensible unit of democracy is the indivdual.



"Name me 1 country that votes in the manner you wish the TC's to vote with and I'll give you a plan for a solution that I support."



In every federal state, the indivdual component states have equality as component states to some degree or other regrdless of their different sizes. What is 'atypical' in the Cyprus situation is not federal state equality (that is normal), but the linking of component state citizenship to ethnicity. Given that the whole reason for a federal solution to Cyprus problem is to deal with ethnic based conflict this is inevitable. Even then the Annan Plan to give on example on maintained this 'ethnic' character to state citizenship for a limited period of time.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 17:38

Jerremy msg 117



"If you are saying that a member's vote should be in proportion to its population then why use THAT as a gauge, why not use it's wealth or landmass or some other measure."



I am not saying that it should be one way or another. I was asking you why it is NOT weighted according to population size ?



"If Cyprus comprised a dozen or so ethnic groups you could have a valid point, equal status for all groups."



I do not see how the principle could be valid if there are more than two groups but not if there is only two. I can see the implementation might be harder but not the principal.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 17:43

Jerremy msg 119



The Akritas plan, written in the early 60's was not the work of Sampson (he had far more direct and dire plans had he achieved leadership in 74). The most widely accepted authors of this plan , north and south were Yiorjardis (chief akrtias and interior minsiter), Tassos Papadopolus and Clerides.



Seriously read it then say it was never implemented. Aspects of it are still being implemented today. If you want details of what I mean by that I'll gladly start a new thread on it.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 17:57

Jerremy msg 123



You are still confusing the principle with the praticalities of implementation.



If in principle it is right that three seperate communites should have an equal say in their own futures , then the principle is the same for 2.



As far as praticalities and mathematics go you may just as well argue that if there is an odd number of communites then they should all have an equal voice but if the number is even the largest should be able to impose its will on the others. 4 communites split 2 and 2 can cause exactly the same 'deadlock' as 2 split 1 and 1. In either senario sense should force compromise. however when one side beleives it can obtain domination and victory without compromise then this does not work.

LOvegod


Joined: 22/03/2009
Posts: 161

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 18:57

Why does anybody worry about what the ECJ rules ? In approx 2 years from now the EU will be in such a sorry state, economically speaking that the Euro will disintergrate and all those overpaid b'crats in Brussels will have to go and get a real job. So stick with your independence TRNC and good on you.

Magbs


Joined: 26/02/2009
Posts: 278

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 19:09

Erol, msg 113



"...Israel withdrew, but received as a concession the port of Eilat..."



I enjoy your insights on Cyprus history but this time your argument suffers from a factual mistake.

What attack "against Suez" your are talking about? After 1956 Suez crisis Israel withdrew from Sinai. Or, if you refer to the Soviet (most serious) threat, you probably mean the 1973 Arab-Israeli War that led to the signing of Camp David accord and Israeli withdrawal from Sinai, to be clear, from all pre-1949 peninsula.

And as for Eilat...well, the city (very nice resort, btw was never designated as a part of Sinai/ Egypt.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 21:10

Dear "Lovegod", re msg 126



"Why does anybody worry about what the ECJ rules ? In approx 2 years from now the EU will be in such a sorry state, economically speaking that the Euro will disintergrate and all those overpaid b'crats in Brussels will have to go and get a real job. So stick with your independence TRNC and good on you."



1/ it's *rulings* not rule..



2/ can I keep this msg and remind you of it in two years time?

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 21:31

So to sum up this thread then. The Orams will get the legal decision from the ECJ on the 28th April - message 1.

There is a bit of history in Cyprus and there are some cross people who try and get other cross people to change their minds or alternatively insult them - messages 2-130. Sorted!

clayton


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 1143

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 21:31

the brits who are buying the so called stolen land are being told by the builders it is safe to do so.just as i imagine the g c builders are telling the brits in southern cyprus the same.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 23:26

How about a little 'time out' on this one? Say about 25 years?

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 23:44

Hi msg 130 I dot know how Im drawn into this. I only said I hope they win. Reason we all beleived. I see your history every day thanks to pike 6ms juliet etc and I also listen here. Im sad for all of you no war is ever easy and I know being Irish and gone through similar but nobody there has wanted property back. Its a sad state that it has gone to ECHR but thats progress. No one on here will change the outcome of the case but all are worried. I try not to get drawn into the political arena as Im not clever enough to understand all the polotics but Im human enough to care about both sides. xxxxx

karakum5c



Joined: 18/03/2008
Posts: 1021

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 23:51

The world is in the grip of a global recession, does anybody really think anyone is seriously interested in Cyprus, who needs more problems when your surrounded by them.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
29/03/2009 00:23

a lot of you guys from nicosia are kicking against an open door!



only a lunatic would claim that the republic of cyprus, your average gc

and foreign countries recognise in any way the idea of trnc "exchange land"



on the other hand within the trnc property market (only), es deger does describe a category, is used to set prices and within legal documents



but it requires a giant leap of faith to imagine that at some hypothetical point

in the future "exchange land" will be taken over, perhaps by a former occupant



I'd concede that this is only my opinion and the future could yet amaze us all

although I'd still be very surprised if in 25 years any "exchange land" owner

found their security of tenure seriously threatened:



yes moves may theoretically be endorsed "after orams" regarding

roc loss of use judgements enforcable throughout the eu,

although I remain quite sceptical on its use in practice

but for ownership locally, trnc exchange land is as safe as houses

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
29/03/2009 02:02

Dear Andre_514, re msg 142



What exactly do YOU think the Orams' case was about and what EXACTLY was the RoC judgement?



I ask as you seem to be talking about some other case .. "loss of use"??!!



"trnc exchange land is as safe as houses" .. Koneshna... ( Russian for of course - but to sound more ironic - like Yeah, right !)



Now if you'd said pre74 TR / Foreign title...



IF "trnc exchange land is as safe as houses" ..why is it's value so much less?

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
29/03/2009 02:02

jerremy,



I would imagine turkey wanted very much to join the eu...

however elko (ismet) on this forum suggested appearances may be deceptive

the ak government does make a big show of wanting to join the eu, certainly



I wouldn't underestimate the intention of several countries to eventually block

turkey's presently-stalled eu application (france, austria, netherlands etc etc)



and while the turks may have thought eu membership was in america's gift, they certainly don't place any trust in that now



I agree many greek cypriots want like to return to their former homes,

but north of the green line cypriots list security guarantees as a main concern



you refer to the international legal system "wanting" something, (?)

but if you believe nearly all the world's statesmen would prefer to see cyprus peacefully reunited I would certainly agree with you



the consensus is this would come about by negociation and compromise:

when can you see that happening?

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
29/03/2009 02:26

mark,



"koneshna" indeed!

for russian buyers exchange land is as safe as the rock of gibraltar



for eu buyers, although as you have stated south cyprus is far too weak

to stage any kind of direct comeback and its judgements are not recognised north of the green line the propaganda puff surrounding the orams saga

(and not any likely loss of tenure) has had an impact on the property market

with the result that pre-'74 roc title is scarce and commands a price premium



I would say that underlying the orams case is the south's inability to negociate a realistic compromise on all the cyprus issues

and I now believe it is temperamentally incapable of doing so,

you of all people should agree this was a prime case for "annan-man" himself



at its selling price of 40% of that prevailing everywhere else in the med

exchange properties still respresent very good vakue,

as always you get what you pay for, but you know that already don't you?

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
29/03/2009 02:34

Easy to see how this thread is going, its all greek to me, excuse the pun.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
29/03/2009 06:43

Magbs msg 127



"I enjoy your insights on Cyprus history but this time your argument suffers from a factual mistake."



I suggest yopu re read my post. The quote you attribute to me is from the Akritas plan, not my words. Weather the example the authors of that plan give is correct , the point they warn about is clear. Namely if intervention occurs then those intervened on will loose, even if it is considered illegal. The authors of this plan believed this to be ture and warned about this danger.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
29/03/2009 06:49

Cylad msg 128



"Can anybody provide any evidence to show the Akritas plan was any more authentic than the infamous Hitler Diaries? "



Yes. Its authenticity has been akhnoweldged countless times by many indivduals in a place to know upto and including former presidents of the RoC.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
29/03/2009 06:57

dt. msg 133



"Erolz. State equality in a federation on a senate level is acceptble and exists. What is unacceptable by the GC's is the racist quest to maintain the states "ethnically clean". "



A federal solution in Cyprus where both component states are numercially dominated by the GC community is pointless and no different from a unitary state where TC community is a political minority. I do not agree that the TC seek to maintain 'ethnically clean' component state within a federal solution. What does concern them and obviously so, is that they will become a political numerical minority within each state. The Anan plan did not seek to keep each component state ethnically clean. It sought to ensure that for a period of time the TC component state did not have more GC state citizens in it than TC state citizens.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
29/03/2009 07:01

dt. msg 138



"every day that passes and we're not in our properties there will be no time outs. We're just gonna get meaner and meaner"



You mean you (your community) will get even meaner and meaner than it was in Cyprus from 64-74, ten years BEFORE you lost any property ? With comments like this is it any wonder that TC need certain gurantees in a potential solution ?

Magbs


Joined: 26/02/2009
Posts: 278

Message Posted:
29/03/2009 10:26

Erolz, msg 148



Yes, you are right. Your point is clear. I missed your quotation marks. Yorgadjis et al. should have used better examples.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
29/03/2009 10:46

dt msg 138



"we're just gonna get meaner and meaner"



and the meaner you get, the nearer you are to recovering "lost" properties?

perhaps you could explain for us doubting thomases the way this works

assume this is why you chose the tag "dt..." it means "delerium tremens"

a sort of delusional state would just about sum it up



finally your picturesque remarks about president talat's dry cleaning,

a little bird told me that his government will be replaced with hard-liners,

so we are binning the talks process aren't we?



andre

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
29/03/2009 11:05

Dear Andre_514



" russian buyers exchange land is as safe as the rock of gibraltar "





..and this reads like a headline from Pravda , akin to "our grain crop continues to break records" .. and the "record" was the biggest ever *failure* - resulting in the need to place the biggest order with the west for grain .....



WHY?



I believe the "rump" RoC govt would be careful not to arrest an EU Citizen for breaking their law - re dealing - "buying" a GCs property / land.. but a Russian / Ukrainian / Uzbehki...



Your post (IMHO) shows a re high degree of naivety ( or is it simply offering "reassurance" ) .. the market price of such land ( in relation to pre74 TR/ Foreign owned title ) doesn't reflect your opinion..

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
29/03/2009 12:32

mark,



you seem to be living in the past: russia is no longer a communist country (although its wheat exports are at long last genuinely breaking all records)

its people can amass private capital and want homes in the sun like anyone

that's why they are increasingly entering the north cyprus property market



your warning about the republic of cyprus' and its laws is very timely...

but why would they particularly want to cross the green line anyway:

you lived on the other side but why would they feel it necessary to go there?

and it is hardly likely the south would choose to fall out

with one of its most vociferous supporters by harassing their private citizens



but you continue to evade the most interesting question of all,

why you who have no connection with the north and are certainly not a cypriot

put so much effort into supporting the well-known cause of the gc dispossesed,

is it only because you are concerned with moral values?

hattikins


Joined: 17/02/2008
Posts: 2793

Message Posted:
29/03/2009 12:50

6m, of late you have posted an awful lot on this board, most of it quite repetative, perhaps you should try getting out more, debate is great but there is such a thing as overkill.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
29/03/2009 13:49

Dear Andre_514, re msg155



I believe you would know - VERY well - I was referring to the Pravda - of the Soviet era .. nice attempt at "deflection".. ;)



"evade the most interesting question of all-why you who have no connection with the north and are certainly not a cypriot "



and



Hattikins re msg 156



"you have posted an awful lot on this board"





msg to both of you.. do my posts "worry" you so much... ;)?!





Andre, this is now the FORTH time you have "questioned" my "motivation" and I refer you to my first answer ( and the second ) the previous times- both of wish covered three long responses..I'm NOT boring other posters, nor repeating myself ..



Do I make too much sense ?!;)

hattikins


Joined: 17/02/2008
Posts: 2793

Message Posted:
29/03/2009 14:14

No 6M, they do not worry me but they do bore me to tears, I'm afraid that I now just skip past anything with your name attached, as I suspect many others do.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
29/03/2009 15:41

mark,



your posts don't bother me either

and there were questions that needed to be considered

by all "interested parties" to the "dispute"



I agree with hattikins all possibilities, wrinkles and combinations

have been comprehensively aired and if I continue posting I'm likely

to come down with a case of the dt's myself



andre



andre

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
29/03/2009 16:01

Given the recent announcement of the property guarantee to the British owners, isn't this all now meaningless?

madmazz


Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 82

Message Posted:
29/03/2009 16:10

And the fact many buyers of "exchange" land properties now find they are mortgaged to the hilt? Who will be taken to court? The individual buyers (who officially own nothing) or the Contractors or the banks - the "legal" owners? Exchange land has never, and will never be 100% safe, because the legal owners still own it according to the law!! Why is pre '74 land more expensive?

hattikins


Joined: 17/02/2008
Posts: 2793

Message Posted:
29/03/2009 16:43

Why is pre '74 land more expensive?



To try to stop anymore Pikeys buying a plot of course, one is enough for any island.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
29/03/2009 16:59

reasonable comments madmazz

provided we bear in mind any land in cyprus can have a hidden mortgage



only reason developers use exchange scrubland is because there is little genuine turkish title available, whatever the estate agents may claim



as regards 100% safe yes according to the edicts of south cyprus

and there is a slight shadow of doubt that goes with cheaper exchange

related to the recent adverse publicity and despite trnc government guarantees



but I am absolutely convinced that nobody else will ever in the future

try to come back and occupy these titles



the 100% safe siren-song is a dangerous over-simplification:

my friend spent her life savings on a "100% safe title"

dream home development elsewhere in the med...

and after the developer's "bankruptcy" has absolutely nothing to show for it

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
29/03/2009 17:36

oh and marion, re msg 161,



you do appreciate the cyprus 44 forum is heavily infiltrated by greek cypriots

as well as by their rag-tag-and-bobtail sympathisers and fellow-travellers?



while it is perfectly in order to post all views and perspectives on cyprus 44

and none of us are afraid to agree or disagree with any of it,

it is not always 100% safe to guess where they are "coming from" as it were

and their real reasons for being on a trnc forum



lastly, I remain confused about your expression "mortgaged to the hilt"

assume you refer to developers' undeclared loans taken out on their projects



and not the heavy mortgages many entered into

against people's homes in england to pay for a holiday flat overseas?

hattikins


Joined: 17/02/2008
Posts: 2793

Message Posted:
29/03/2009 18:05

Orams ruling date set. Fine, bring it on, because it is no use worrying about what you can't change so why waste your time or energy.

If the ruling goes in favour of the Orams I will quite happily potter in my garden in TRNC, enjoy the sea and mountain views and all in all enjoy the time I have left on this earth.

If the ruling goes against the Orams, I will quite happily potter in my garden etc, if the original owner, complete with deeds, decides to take me to court, it will most likely take 20 years to sort out the pro,s and con,s by which time I will probably be living in la la land or else pushing up daisies in some corner of lovely Lapta, either way it won't bother me and I will have enjoyed my retirement in a beautiful part of the world.



Hatti.

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
29/03/2009 23:12

Pikey, if you as you claim to be law abiding and in acceptance of rule and regulations why is it you constantly bring this board into disripute.



Its all very well preaching the moral high ground take a look at your own actions and stop treating this board with disrespect.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
30/03/2009 00:09

on one of the many election programmes that i have been watching ,there was a debate about the orams ,i,m not quite sure which party this person was from ,however it was suggested that if the orams lost their case ,the crossings may be shut to stop gc,s approaching foreign buyers ,foreign buyers may have numbers and not names on their kocans when issued or they may be advised to only have one name and not both ,if a couple own a house in joint names in britian say and only one buys a property else where ,then there is no way legally it can affect property in britain.



and there are many other ways around it ,so who cares about the orams .





musin



long live the kktc

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
30/03/2009 00:20

on one of the many election programmes that i have been watching ,there was a debate about the orams ,i,m not quite sure which party this person was from ,however it was suggested that if the orams lost their case ,the crossings may be shut to stop gc,s approaching foreign buyers ,foreign buyers may have numbers and not names on their kocans when issued or they may be advised to only have one name and not both ,if a couple own a house in joint names in britian say and only one buys a property else where ,then there is no way legally it can affect property in britain.



and there are many other ways around it ,so who cares about the orams .





musin



long live the kktc