Property Prices and PTP

upthehammers


Joined: 17/04/2009
Posts: 3

Message Posted:
17/04/2009 20:11

hi all,

just had a wonderful weekend in TRNC and am very close to getting the wheels in motion on a property purchase. We have 1 major concern, unfortunatley whilst waiting at the airport we read in Cyprus Today that many people are now having their PTP rejected,

1. is it possible to apply for this before purchasing and what would happen to our investment if we were rejected in 2-3 years time.



one other thing,and i hope you can be objective about this one as i know no one wants to talk their investments down but what are your opinions of property prices in TRNC since the global peek of 2007??? is TRNC really the only place on earth that has been increasing ????



thanks all.

rtddci


Joined: 29/12/2007
Posts: 842

Message Posted:
17/04/2009 21:22

Being in exactly that position (refused PTP), you can imagine I'm hardly likely to advise you to buy in the TRNC. Best advice is, don't. You are supposed to apply for PTP (for which a advocate will charge you £1000 just to fill in a form, when you can do it yourself) and wait for permisssion to be granted. That of course is laughable when it takes so long. If you have been told property prices have been increasing, then you have been misled frankly. Have a look at the home buyers pressure group website hbpg-trnc.net for advice and look at the many threads on this forum as to the far too many tales of woe and rip offs. If you want further info please email me off forum. Now stand by for the 'all is lovely' posts.

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
17/04/2009 21:28

Well said Martin......it's not what some want to hear.....but the truth often hurts.

pinkchilli


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 689

Message Posted:
17/04/2009 21:44

Why don't we all, get a copy of the Application to Purchase forms and fill them in ourselves with any property we feel like, then submit it to the authorities.



As you MUST not have entered into a contract to purchase a property, you cannot attach anything with your application.



In a few weeks they will have possibly thousands and have to change the rules.



This is probably what they will change it to:



You must have a signed contract with at least £10,000 paid to the vendor, before attaching the copy of the "Registered" Sales Contract, with your application to purchase!!!



PS. You MUST still not have entered into a contract to purchase



Can somebody put the on-line link to download Application to Purchase and a step-by-step guide on filling it out.



I have a copy of my completed form if that helps, but it's in Turkish.

cooper


Joined: 23/10/2007
Posts: 3386

Message Posted:
17/04/2009 21:56

All the info you need is on here including a link to print of a application form - http://www.hbpg-trnc.net/documents/purchase_apply.html



Cooper

keithcaley



Joined: 13/06/2008
Posts: 2521

Message Posted:
17/04/2009 21:58

msg 2,

Just to point out that poster no. 1 will not be able to email you - they've only got 1 post, so can't see your email address - and they've hidden theirs!

Keith.

rtddci


Joined: 29/12/2007
Posts: 842

Message Posted:
17/04/2009 21:58

Like it. We could apply for some choice properties. Where does the PM and President live? Be interesting to see if they picked it up. Love to see their faces if they got a call to check if really selling!

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
17/04/2009 22:36

UTH message 1. Applying and getting your PTP prior to purchase is still not a viable proposition.

Prices in TRNC are currently,like many regions of the Western World, at rock bottom.

You should be very carefull in your selection of property and check, check and check again upon status of the property. I recommend a resale which has Kocan already in owners name.

Of course,buying overseas anywhere has its risks. It always has.

Rest assured the right choice and at rock bottom prices the TRNC still provides excellent value, prospects and is one of the last mediteranean regions to outside the Euro zone.

upthehammers


Joined: 17/04/2009
Posts: 3

Message Posted:
18/04/2009 06:35

THANKS TO ALL FOR COMMENTS....... Its nice to hear from honest people ! The truth is alway better, so at least we can our own judgement call.

Changed profile so can receive emails direct now guys.....



We are looking at a new build are being told that prices have increased 20 % since 2007 ! as the global property market has retracted at 20 % that means that TRNC has increased by 40 % .......mmmmmm....



A snap shot of prices...so if I brought a 3 bed villa 2007 and had paid 110K what would I expect to pay today ... 124K !!! I dont think so ! ...



Another example - 3 bed semi detached 2007 50K now 65K ..... really



regardless of the above we are really interested in NatureBay or Levent Homes properties... in Tatlisu...



Nature Bay seems to be finished to a very high standard, however Levent Homes size and price are better but lack a high standard of finsih...



Any comments on either of these....

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
18/04/2009 11:20

Sorry...I have no experience of those particular developments so can't comment.

All I would say is that Tatlisu is a bit out of the way and not that close to a choice of shops,bars,restaurants and other facilities.This may improve in a few years time when the general infrastructure is improved.



As regards property prices....it seems like you have your own suspicions and do not believe the hype.

I'm sure some people will give you examples of prices having risen since 2007.

I would suggest that these are advertised prices,and NOT what the properties end up being sold for !

On many developments now you will find that the villas/apartments are cheaper today on say Phase 2 than they were originally on Phase 1.

In today's market,an offer of 15 to 20 percent below asking price will be definitely considered.



Good luck with your search....it's a buyers market....and definitely search this forum for posts about specific developments before signing on the dotted line.

mint1955



Joined: 30/05/2007
Posts: 988

Message Posted:
18/04/2009 11:28

UTH have you looked at SweetwaterBay http://www.sweetwaterbay.co.uk also out at Tatlisu. Great site nearly complete with very proactive Management company.

keithcaley



Joined: 13/06/2008
Posts: 2521

Message Posted:
18/04/2009 11:32

Prices ARE at rock bottom.

See the following advice from a VERY well informed, and well respected Turkish Cypriot, ignore it at your peril, and don't moan when it all goes pear-shaped...

http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/13415.asp

There are some other invalulable bits of advice on that trhead also...

I see that you are a 'sales excecutive', which to me means that you are probably used to making deals, and trusting your own judgement, which is fine if you are dealing with Honest business people, or at least know the Law, and all the wrinkles.

Be assured that HERE, you do NOT - there are so many wrinkles and loopholes that any contract is virtually worthless, a large proportion of the developers, speculators and builders (not ALL, of course) will rob you blind, given half a chance - and most of the others will 'take advantage of your ignorance'.

There ARE a few honest people out there, but this place is a magnet for those trying to make a quick buck out of the unwary and un-knowing

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
18/04/2009 12:35

Inform your builder you want the property but you are going to abide by the laws of the land and get your PTP first.

If you do not follow this route you will be in the same boat as others i.e. having paid for a property you will never own if your PTP is then refused, and many are now being refused. If buyers take this route then pressure will be applied not only from the buyers but also the builders whose buisnesses are also affected.



Wait for the Oram's verdict which is due at the end of this month and see where the reunification talks go. Now is not the time to buy with so many things in the air. If you must buy, then do not go for anything but a resale. The risk is just too great to buy off plan.



You have absolutely no protection or safeguards when buying in the TRNC. Heed the British Governments warning.

joebloggs


Joined: 17/04/2009
Posts: 11

Message Posted:
18/04/2009 13:09

I applied for PTP before I purchased on Turtle Bay Village, it was finally granted in December last year, a Three Year wait.

Still I got it and many owners on the Site have theirs too.

But if I was in Yours shoes I would be tempted to hang tight! only problem with that though is if there is a Settlement that favours the north, with direct flights, Prices will rocket over night.

Personally I dont think there will ever be one in My life time, ( and i am only 50)

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
18/04/2009 14:00

I am not sure that prices will rocket overnight, even if there is direct flights and a settlement that favours the north.Certainly tourism will increase with any settlement and direct flights and this might mean that the TRNC at last sees money being spent on infrastructure and improvements to the area.



However the whole of the med is in free fall at the moment, few are buying holiday homes because of the uncertainty of the job market and fall in their property prices. This despite the fact that some real bargains can be picked up.



The situation makes it safe for buyers to take their time and not rush into buying because they fear that the market prices will rise and an investment opportunity lost.



We still go back to the same old worry though, a property is only an investment if it actually is going to be legally owned lock, stock and barrel by YOU the person who has paid in full. Otherwise you have simply bought a pig in a poke........so to speak

pinkchilli


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 689

Message Posted:
18/04/2009 14:02

Come on, lets get everyone we know back home, to check out the websites of the big estate agents.



Then book a free inspection trip!



If no free inspection trip is offered, apply for P2P, on a property that you like the look of.



Tell the estate agent that you will not break the rules, and that if he/she encourages you in any way, they could be liable to be sued.



Can you imagine, hundreds of estate agents with hundreds of potential buyers, but not one buyer will proceed until P2P is granted.



This Estate Agents Law makes a complete mockery of the property market. Why don't they amend the law to prevent purchasers buying BEFORE P2P is granted? (We are not all speculators).



Answers on a postcard to KKTC President!

rtddci


Joined: 29/12/2007
Posts: 842

Message Posted:
18/04/2009 17:32

So how does auctioning property work then with regards PTP? There is 'the first ever multi lot property and land public auction' being held in May advertised in Cyprus Today by D & Beyler. This includes 25 lots consisting of building land, resales, under construction, renovation projects and brand new homes. Hate to advertise it but does this auction only apply to those who don't have to have PTP?

pinkchilli


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 689

Message Posted:
18/04/2009 17:56

Great question rtddci.



Suppose you've been refused, but you say you are still waiting for an answer?



Would D & B care?



I've heard it's £350 + KDV to put a lot up for grabs. Also, from what I've heard they will auction regardless of PTP, but I can't say for certain. It would drastically reduce the lots.



What about Permission to Build?



What about Final Approval?



What about Parcelisation?



What about Property Tax?



Etc, etc.

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
18/04/2009 17:59

If the way we purchase now is fraught with problems I would definately stay away from the Auction,

rtddci


Joined: 29/12/2007
Posts: 842

Message Posted:
18/04/2009 18:03

Of the 25 lots, only 1 it appears has Turkish title. The website is http://www.propertyauctionscyprus.com. Perhaps the answers to your questions are there but not easy to navigate.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
18/04/2009 18:03

What about those poor people whose properties were mortgaged by the developer and its the bank that is selling their properties at the auction to get back the money owed by the builder?



Unfortunately I think we will see more of this in the near future.

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
18/04/2009 18:08

Bradus....in the scenario you describe , some poor "owners" may not even be aware that "their" property is being auctioned !

LOvegod


Joined: 22/03/2009
Posts: 161

Message Posted:
18/04/2009 18:16

looks like renting has to be the way forward in trnc

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
18/04/2009 18:28

Renting is definitely a good idea.

Perhaps some developers in the TRNC who are struggling to shift properties could consider a scheme available here in the UK.

One developer has come up with the idea of try before you buy.

Basically...if you want one of his apartments....you can opt to rent it for the first year at £500 per month.

If after 12 months you've changed your mind,you can walk away.

If ,however you still want to buy the apartment,he knocks the rent you've paid ( £6000 ) off the asking price.

What a great scheme!



If they did a similar scheme in NC....but for 2 or 3 years....then you could wait for your PTP BEFORE committing to buy.

davidoff


Joined: 21/04/2007
Posts: 438

Message Posted:
18/04/2009 18:36

Hi all,



A few things :



PTPs do take a few years to come through and this is a risk you will have to take if you are serious about bying?



Property prices increasing I am not sure who told you this? There is a global decline happening and developing countries are declining faster than others?

Plus add to the fact that NC has a huge oversupply problem and demand has drantically fallen?



Many are trying to sell their properties at a substantial loss compared to what they paid for them?

Many expats are leaving the country and returning back to their country of origin or looking for an alternative country to settle in?



NC is a huge risk in many respects and its not for the faint hearted?



You have to be sure it what you want as it could easily become your worst nightmare like others have experienced on the forum already?



Either way good luck with your decision and I wish you all the best in the path ahead you decide to choose?



take care d x

keithcaley



Joined: 13/06/2008
Posts: 2521

Message Posted:
18/04/2009 19:33

davidoff,

I do hope that you don't think that I'm being 'picky', BUT every single sentence that you posted ended with a question mark.

Were you intending to make statements to enlighten the original poster, were you asking him/her if they were aware of these things, or were you yourself asking questions that you wish us to answer?

Best regards,

Keith.

Aussie


Joined: 17/06/2007
Posts: 657

Message Posted:
18/04/2009 20:04

I understood that the process for new PTP applications was meant to be much faster than before with a target approval time of three months instead of the previous 2-3 year average.



This would make it feasible to buy subject to PTP being given.



With the election and likely new government further changes are likely.



Aussie

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
18/04/2009 20:12

Well that's another reason to wait and see what happens before committing to any purchase.

rtddci


Joined: 29/12/2007
Posts: 842

Message Posted:
18/04/2009 20:27

I quote from their press release from the website

'Auctions are sometimes seen as a rather desperate way of shifting unsaleable properties, although they are commonplace in Britain. With the local market proving pretty static, it is perhaps not surprising that they have finally found their way to North Cyprus.



'Donaghy and Beyler sales director, Mark Weavers, who will also be auctioneer on the day, said: “It is a buyers’ market and many of our vendors were having to reduce their prices in order to sell, but this is by no means a panic move.'



“The first hurdle to overcome was to ensure that we were legally able to carry out a public auction. We spoke to several lawyers and were told that we were able to do this without hitting any brick walls."



The words that stand out for me are 'desperate way of shifting unsaleable property' 'panic move' 'local market proving pretty static' and then there is the question as why they had to ask several lawyers if it was legal.

Mindy



Joined: 27/10/2008
Posts: 1210

Message Posted:
18/04/2009 20:43

Rtddci

As there are no lawyers in TRNC, only advocates, I am very very sceptical regarding these Auctions. Smells of desperate from many angles to me.

upthehammers


Joined: 17/04/2009
Posts: 3

Message Posted:
18/04/2009 20:43

Thanks again to everyone who has commented.. a subject that appears to be close to everyone's heart ! or wallet at least !



To touch upon a couple of points... yes my husband is in sales and one thing is for sure ....a fair price will be paid should we decide to purchase.



We are also in the fortunate position that my brother is a barrister and his best mate is a solictor so any contracts even though dont come under British law their beedy eyes will def help....



Just a little confused about the PTP.. Can you apply for a PTP without naming a

property to purchase?



Quite simply the best thing to do is apply for PTP then reevaulate....in the meantime its off to spain to see if we can pick up a bargain!!!!!



thanks again everyone

keithcaley



Joined: 13/06/2008
Posts: 2521

Message Posted:
18/04/2009 22:30

PTP is pemission for a specific person to purchase a specific property only.

It doesn't matter what is in, or is not in, the contract.

The Specific Performance Law renders contracts useless and unenforceable.

If you don't know what the SPL is, I suggest that you get your legal eagles to do some research - there's plenty of info on this and other forums.

Best of luck.

Keith.

eager


Joined: 23/02/2007
Posts: 1272

Message Posted:
18/04/2009 22:40

oh dear. last comment not very good

laptagal


Joined: 28/05/2008
Posts: 549

Message Posted:
18/04/2009 22:43

How do you know when your PTP has been granted/refused? Who informs you and how?

keithcaley



Joined: 13/06/2008
Posts: 2521

Message Posted:
18/04/2009 23:03

You need to keep ringing the Interior Ministry - at least once a month, every month.

Call round occassionally in person, just so that they know your face, and to make sure that they are actually looking at the File itself, not just at what it says on the computer screen. They work so slow that it can take months to update thge computer even after they've got the file back from the military or wherever.

Full advice on the Homebuyer's Pressure Group website: -

http://www.hbpg-trnc.net/

Don't expect your Advocate or anyone else to chase this, it really is a matter of 'If you want it doing, then do it yourself' - 'cos you're the ONLY one who cares...

Keith.

davidoff


Joined: 21/04/2007
Posts: 438

Message Posted:
19/04/2009 00:01

Hi all,



Keith sorry to confuse you the ?? marks were aimed for those who possibly were unaware of these points.



Thanx for the clarification.



take care d x

LoopyLoo


Joined: 05/04/2009
Posts: 67

Message Posted:
19/04/2009 00:15

Hi everyone



I only joined the forum a few weeks ago but have been trying to read through the many discussions on purchasing property in TRNC. Most of them are preceeded by the word 'pitfalls' which is unfortunate. I've ended up with a 1 bedroom appartment above a row of shops near Alsancak - long story. It's not that it isn't a good enough property, it's just that I have a family and it's too small for my needs. Does anyone know how much I can sell it on for? Better still, does anyone know someone who might be interested in it?



AND, as if I haven't asked enough questions, does anyone know where I can find a summer rental with the following specs: 2 to 3 bed appartment/house with access to a pool for July and August and possibly 1st 2 wks in Sept. It seems I'm inbetween a long term rent and a holiday rent, so places are hard to come by especially since I want it at a rock bottom price. I'm happy if it's a bit older cos then I won't worry about the kids so much.



Thank

keithcaley



Joined: 13/06/2008
Posts: 2521

Message Posted:
20/04/2009 14:58

davidoff,

Hi, I was a bit worried that what I said might seem rather rude, but I'd already pressed the 'Reply' button!

It can be confusing though, you know?

Keith.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
20/04/2009 17:17

Just a thought...



If someone has had their "ptp" refused - and it is on pre 74 TR / foreign owned title.. Why not register it with the "rump" RoC Land Registry?





In this way you HAVE registered your purchase within the EU recognised Land Registry AND you could ultimately take TR to court via the ECHR / TR's property commission if you can't get satisfaction.. it would be particularly hard for someone to say "Military reasons" for refusal - if other EU nationals have had ptp on the same development.

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
20/04/2009 18:22

Hi Mark.....definitely food for thought....and it has previously been suggested by your "partner in crime "



Can I assume that the land would have to have been parcelised for this to work....we are on a small development of apartments ?

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
20/04/2009 19:20

Hmmm will the new administration start pushing PTP's though quickly to get some much needed revenue in the coffers one asks??

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
20/04/2009 19:29

Hi Cronos



re msg 40



I've been "telling" folk to register pre 74 foreign / TR owned properties for seven years ;)



If your apartment is built on such land then I really don't know... I'm SURE the RoC Land Registry Dept for your area could advise.



You'd need to get hold of someone:



a) with a decision making brain - not a jobs worth



b) I suspect they'd need all the plans.



LEGALLY - I don't see how the RoC land Registry could refuse a request from you to register - but before you go knocking on their door - I'd quietly email the British High Commission for advice.



No doubt "pikey" will offer some advise if / when he "returns" ;) .. I know he registered HIS place with the RoC.

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
20/04/2009 19:55

Not often I praise you Mark, but I feel there is some sound logic in your proposal and will certainly investigate further, I would suggest others with pre 74 title do so to. Thanks.

P

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
20/04/2009 20:02

Paul,

I think many will be left with no other option if this government does not play fair.

At least it means that you then have some protection from the ECHR's.