If you had your time over again would you buy or rent?

Les&Tasha


Joined: 17/03/2009
Posts: 31

Message Posted:
26/04/2009 19:57

We bought in Turkey in 2004. No regrets. We enjoy living here now. Reckon we would just about break even if we sold up. The property has not proved to be a good investment, financially we would probably have been better off investing the money and renting.



We are visiting Cyprus in May to look around the schools. If we buy we will only consider a resale. No new build or off plan. We have witnessed a wide variety of scams...



What do the members here think should we buy or rent?









If we buy we will only consider a resale. No new build or off plan.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
26/04/2009 20:10

RE msg 1, Les&Tasha > What do the members here think should we buy or rent? <



=> What are you trying to achieve? A couple of thousand crying expats..?

daisy dukes


Joined: 06/09/2008
Posts: 3815

Message Posted:
26/04/2009 20:16

definately rent!



DD

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
26/04/2009 20:18

Buy , like independance

racoonchic



Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3223

Message Posted:
26/04/2009 20:20

buy defo i love the place

Quarmby


Joined: 15/09/2008
Posts: 975

Message Posted:
26/04/2009 20:22

You could definately buy my place.

anthiano


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 105

Message Posted:
26/04/2009 20:24

bought a resale problems arose after would def rent

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
26/04/2009 20:34

Rent,



Would not consider buying until laws are changed to safeguard the foreign buyer. You have all heard what the Government is saying....................You must have your PTP before you hand over any money.

Why take the risk?

dozza67


Joined: 11/07/2008
Posts: 607

Message Posted:
26/04/2009 20:40

Renting could mean having to move around a lot. You could be nice and comfy in your rented apartment/villa and then the owner sells it. I would never feel settled if it were me.

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
26/04/2009 20:48

Buy and accept that there is a risk,

oh we have already done that and are quite happy about it.

Les&Tasha


Joined: 17/03/2009
Posts: 31

Message Posted:
26/04/2009 20:47

Quote "What are you trying to achieve? A couple of thousand crying expats..? "



No, though this board has lots of them LOL!



Seriously my wife (Tasha) loves to decorate so buying a fixer upper has definite advantages but I have serious concerns that the TRNC propery market is more bent than the Turkish. 6 months ago I would not have thought that possible...



I am certainly not willing to pay for a property in full before I have the deeds (Tapu/Kokan). So I reckon most of the emlaks won't deal with me. D&B contacted me re their auction but that involves payment in full before you have permission to purchase. That sounds insane.



Renting a 3 bed apartment (unfurnished long term) appears to be about Euro 300 - 400 pm in the north (500 to 600 in the ROC) This is not a lot. It is easy to get a safe 10% return in TL, so is it worth tying up 80000 Euro? Rent 5000 Euro a year. Interest after tax about the same. All depends on whether you think the market will go up...

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
26/04/2009 21:00

Still believe most buyers will be alright eventually. Apologies to those who have already been robbed by some of the crooked developers, or should I say non-developers.

Dusterbruce


Joined: 03/08/2007
Posts: 1125

Message Posted:
26/04/2009 21:06

I thought buying was a good idea 3 years ago but how wrong I was.



I so wish I had decided to rent

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
26/04/2009 21:08

Absolutely positely definately.......Rent!

cooper


Joined: 23/10/2007
Posts: 3386

Message Posted:
26/04/2009 21:17

You dont mean that No 1, we have the Guarantee !!

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
26/04/2009 21:20

If there hadn't been a few brave buyers there wouldn't be much available property to rent

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
26/04/2009 21:21

Cooper. I forgot about the Guarantee!! "buy more properties"!!!!

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
26/04/2009 21:42

buy definately////////////////////////////

Les&Tasha


Joined: 17/03/2009
Posts: 31

Message Posted:
26/04/2009 21:56

Nice one Cooper



We have the garantee! Emlaks also do this in Turkey. My usual reply is that I would prefer their photograph printed on toilet paper!



Foreigners don't have to buy to rent. Developers do that when they can't sell. I can take you around apartments in Mahmutler. There are several completed, crumbling apartment buildings which have never been lived in - take your pick just Euro 150 pm!! Mind you you better buy a big junkyard dog. Rents like that skim the scum...

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
26/04/2009 23:26

I repeat if there hadn't initially been a construction boom and thousands of properties sold, developers would n't have misjudged the market and built the now empty unsold properties currently being rented out. Furthermore if it wasn't for the purchasers who fuelled the boom, who now do not occupy or use their properties for various reasons but offer them for renting, many of you wouldn't be renting the property you do now.

Therefore it's sad we purchasers now appear the fools.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
26/04/2009 23:44

Never mind the sell or rent option I just wish someone would set up a company that allows exchanges of properties throughout the world. Not for holidays but swapping ownership. I'd be game.

karakum5c



Joined: 18/03/2008
Posts: 1021

Message Posted:
26/04/2009 23:56

Life is all about taking risks



Life without risks is not life at all

Steve1953



Joined: 04/12/2008
Posts: 298

Message Posted:
27/04/2009 00:40

Sounds like you are talking about the UK. Shares and property prices have fallen off a cliff,and will continue to fall as banks aren't lending - hope you didn't own any bank shares- thats approaching suicidal proprtions-



- total bubble mentality of over borrowing.



Too many cowboys in TRNC and UK,but property prices still very expensive in UK compared with N.Cyprus.



Other factors dearer council tax,cost of living gas electric,hassle factor etc in UK ....my advice is do your homework ,take a chance and buy... and good luck - life's rich tapestry and all that,kind regards,Steve

breezyboy


Joined: 14/05/2007
Posts: 1179

Message Posted:
27/04/2009 13:31

Rent for 6 months whilst you find a resale property. Def. do not buy off plan.

Blackpoolfan


Joined: 03/12/2008
Posts: 1568

Message Posted:
27/04/2009 14:08

Buy Buy Buy!!! life is full of risks fortune favours the brave, As Steve 1953 says do your homework and trust nobody but yourself oh and hope the orams win their case..........

Les&Tasha


Joined: 17/03/2009
Posts: 31

Message Posted:
27/04/2009 17:35

Msg 25 Sage advice. We will definitely rent first. I have e-mailed several estate agents and said I will not pay anything more than a holding deposit before we get permission to purchase. They won't work in this way so I won't do business.



We are coming over on the ferry to have a look around in a couple of weeks. We are now giving ROC much more serious consideration. It is more expensive but the legal framework is way better and there is a large selection of private schools in South Nicosia. Problem is we like living with Turkish people!



IMHO the Orams case is a red herring. We are Turkish residents and have no distrainable goods in the EU. Next year the AKP will be history and we will have a republican/nationalist government in Turkey. Turkey's EU membership charade will not be resolved in my lifetime, neither will Cyprus be reunified. These issues are simply not on the new political agenda. Lip service might be paid but nothing will happen. That is the Turkish way.

fatboy



Joined: 05/11/2008
Posts: 244

Message Posted:
27/04/2009 19:09

Surely renting is dead money.If you buy &break even nothing lost.

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
27/04/2009 19:20

fatboy......if you buy and end up never legally owning it , plenty lost !

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
27/04/2009 19:25

Les&Tasha

Interesting posting.



'but the legal framework is way better'



I think you need to do a bit more homework on that one.

AJ

rtddci


Joined: 29/12/2007
Posts: 842

Message Posted:
27/04/2009 21:39

Les & Tasha

As AJ rightly pointed out re the legal framework in the south, see



http://www.cyprus-property-action-group.net/



Oh, my advice, are you sure the grass is greener in NC? Rent first until you believe you know what you are doing and wont get had over. If that happens, please let the rest of us know!

Les&Tasha


Joined: 17/03/2009
Posts: 31

Message Posted:
27/04/2009 23:35

Alsancak Jack and rtddci,



Sincere thanks for correcting us. We certainly need to do way more homework. Your advice is very much appreciated.



We will visit 5 private schools in TRNC and Nicosia later this month and have a good look around. We definitely won't rush. Renting first is a very good way of getting local knowledge.



Living in Turkey for 5+ years has made us very wary. We did'nt get ripped off on our flat but in the begining we paid way too much for almost everything. Reckon we gave away about Euro 20K before we "wised up"



We will let you know how we get on,



Les And Tasha

Krawpy


Joined: 28/04/2009
Posts: 29

Message Posted:
02/05/2009 22:45

If you rent you will soon learn enough to ensure you never buy.

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
02/05/2009 22:57

more info please. krawpy ,re msg32

beno12



Joined: 03/04/2009
Posts: 124

Message Posted:
02/05/2009 23:44

Buy !!!!!!

But make sure your Land or Property is Pre Turkish/Cyprus 74 & of Plan. My investment was worth it,Payed 12.000 pounds for Land 3/4 donum 7 yrs back started biulding 2 yrs later after 2 yrs of reseach Key Finished Bungalow with 90qm living area including finished garten- outside border walls - pavements- 11 tonne water tanks 36.000 pounds.

Situated Salamis. So for 48.000......pounds

Krawpy


Joined: 28/04/2009
Posts: 29

Message Posted:
03/05/2009 01:26

Rowlo -re message 33 - nobody with the slightest insight into the smoke and mirror deception used by the KKTC ruling class to attract foreign investment would dream of making any investment in the place more than, say, a cold Efes. Those insights would be obvious to anyone living there and mixing with loads of others who have bought property and are on the receiving end of all of the misery. Every buyers place in the mess is assured in due course - you are dealing with very patient and clever people. The place is already a black hole - loads of ways in but no way out. Les and Tasha - don't get sucked in to the Black Hole for pities sake!

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
03/05/2009 13:34

Beno You bought at the right time. Your example is therefore outdated. Those of us waiting for PTP on Turkish Title Deed, off plan properties and resales have not been so lucky.



It is now common knowledge, with even solicitors informing their clients, that the government has put a stop to all PTP applications on this title deed. If you saw the questions set by forum users and answered by Niomi Mehmet you would see that many such buyers are having to form Trusts to put their deeds into or go for a leasehold option.



Not an option to be promoted. My advice would be to rent. When the Government has to deal with no more buyers and the dire effects on the construction industry and investment they will have to get their act together and address some of these issues. Wait for a few more safety nets to be thrown before jumping in.

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
03/05/2009 13:53

Beno....must agree with Bradus here.



Well done on your particular success story,but 7 years is a lifetime in the machinations of property issues in NC.



In your example you managed to buy a pre-74 plot for £12K and presumably got your PTP ?



These days....try finding a pre-74 plot for less than £50K and then getting PTP......it won't happen !

rtddci


Joined: 29/12/2007
Posts: 842

Message Posted:
03/05/2009 22:38

Les & Tasha

Just one more thought, I don't know the cost of living in Turkey but do know that it is high in NC, especially utilities. Well worth checking out budget wise.

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
04/05/2009 11:59

Les & Tasha

In my humble opinion, renting is by far the best option for a couple of reasons:

1. You are not committed and can step away at fairly short notice.

2. By investing the money that you would have spent on a villa/apartment you should easily cover your rent and living expenses.

We looked at buying a property and came close on a number of occasions. However, I am glad to say that we didn't make the final leap of faith and now live in a very nice rental villa (pre 74 title) and are able to live very comfortably on the interest earned from our savings.

Kind regards

Paul

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
04/05/2009 12:29

My wife just signed a contract with me to rent the house we were stupid enough to buy. Now I own my own house, host my own wife and have extra income! Can I be any smarter/safer? Suggestions appreciated.

beno12



Joined: 03/04/2009
Posts: 124

Message Posted:
04/05/2009 12:49

cronos ( These days....try finding a pre-74 plot for less than £50K and then getting PTP......it won't happen ! ) It will!!

In my area(Salamas) there is Pre-74plots 0f land for sale all connected (water/Elect )of course not at 12k the price being at ca 38k > 40k

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
04/05/2009 13:01

Beno.....as much as I like the Salamis area it is a bit too far out for me and that is why I bought in the Kyrenia region.

Property and land does tend to be cheaper over your side.

£40K is probably a realistic price for a decent Pre-74 plot.

HOWEVER....the issuing(or not) of PTP to us "foreigners" on Pre-74 Turkish Title Deeds IS an ongoing problem.

Do you know anyone who has received PTP on such deeds in the past 12 months,and who doesn't have TC family/marital connections?

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
04/05/2009 13:10

Always rent! There is no sense in buying a property in a place you are not familiar with. No matter how many holidays you have had in a particular location living in a place is very different from holidaying there! To me it's a no brainer! You don't have to take a long lease. In the current market you can negotiate say a 3 to 6 month lease with a provision to extend if need be! You then have the chance to look around and evaluate whether the decion is the right one for you! Also, bear in mind that the resale and buying market in general is soft at the moment so you will not have the fear of being priced out of the market in addition to paying rent! In fact you have the ideal position to be able to assess the market and look where you want to buy if that's your ultimate decision and then to negotiate the best price!

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
04/05/2009 13:18

Great advice there Moover.......I wish we had done that !

beno12



Joined: 03/04/2009
Posts: 124

Message Posted:
05/05/2009 15:32

Do you know anyone who has received PTP on such deeds in the past 12 months,and who doesn't have TC family/marital connections?

Cronos, a very good question ? I will try to find out...and get back to you..

thank you for the good correspondence .

cazzie


Joined: 10/03/2009
Posts: 7

Message Posted:
07/05/2009 13:17

Totally agree. Should have rented for 6 months because we bought off plan from a well know builder and hes catch phase is THIS WILL COST YOU EXTRA and my god its twice no three times the price where you can buy from the local chap so i would say defintely yes to a re sale but better still back to the UK

AndyR



Joined: 23/04/2009
Posts: 317

Message Posted:
07/05/2009 14:25

Is there a good website that lists available Mid or long term property rentals for the North? For example, Paphosfinder ( http://www.paphosfinder.com/) seems to be a good place to look if you're considering the south, not that I am!

Chicken


Joined: 29/06/2009
Posts: 190

Message Posted:
30/07/2009 14:56

Bradus, I suggested this to Unwins, who now do this

spider


Joined: 03/01/2009
Posts: 5527

Message Posted:
30/07/2009 17:07

Rent.and this is what we do..if ever we need to return home for ill health,we still go with the money we started with..also if we want to pack up and go some place new.that too....and at the end of our days the children do not have the to sell a place over here they do not want...that may not sell..and by then they would have had enough of holidays here anyway..They would much rather see the world.when their children have flown the nest..as i did once they left home...





Spider,X

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
30/07/2009 20:20

So the evaluation of all the above posts would suggest that:



a) It is best to rent.



b) Only buy if you like and enjoy taking a risk? This is best done when you feel life is too short to worry about the risks, so just go for it.

sporty


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 685

Message Posted:
30/07/2009 22:54

i'm buying,i could have easily rented ,but in for a penny in for a pound! I rent out many properties and i even explain to my tenants if they can buy they should buy,its just throwing money away each month,rent a place for 20yrs and never own a brick! However thats in the uk,NC is definately a different ballpark,you have to weigh up what risks if any that you can take and still be able to sleep soundly at night,i've made business decisions that made my wifes head spin!The last few places i've bought she hasnt even viewed with me,she just cant handle it,so everybody will advise you based on their own ability to handle situations,so based on that my advice would be rent first,test the water and if you like the place buy within 12months of settling there,its definately a buyers market at the moment,but that could now change with the outcome of the orams,if its in their favour you may be saying i wish we bought,it'll cost more now. buy,buy,buy!!

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
31/07/2009 17:02

Each persons situation and finances are different as is their risk profile.



In general terms - always rent before buying for several reasons.



1. It gives you a chance to evaluate a country and the locations within the same where you would feel comfortable! Yes, there is a "cost" but it is what we call an 'opportunity cost'. The amount you pay to get the information you need to make the best decision to suit your personal circumstances!



2. The current property market not just here in the TRNC but world over is likely to remain in the doldrums for sometime ahead and certainly for the 6 to 12 months! There is nothing on the horizon that is likely to change that except if there was a resolution to the 'Cyprus Problem' and even then an initial boost will be soon followed by large dose of realism! Of course, people have been waiting for this to happen for at least 10 years if not 35 years!



3. Money in the UK and in the EU in general is still cheap (i.e. cost of borrowing) but...

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
31/07/2009 17:12

...you still have to meet the tighter criteria - so it isn't going to be easy to get a mortgage! If you don't need a mortgage you may well look at the 'savings' rate and decide that there isn't a real rate of return in which case buying may be attractive but I would still suggest renting as you may well get enough from the savings to pay the rent!



4. If you bought here and then decided TRNC wasn't for you... what would it cost you? I would bet certainly more than any cost of renting! Just your legal fees and taxes would be more than any rental cost!



5. There is an over supply of properties for rent here and so you can negotiate a better deal than the asking price!



6. Finally, there are unique risks with buying property in the TRNC! You need to spend some time to evaluate what you make of it and then decide what is right for you! Some people have over exaggerated the risks and some have under played the risks but it should be what is YOUR risk profile!



Hope this helps!

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
31/07/2009 17:32

re 29



AJ



IF they are looking for pre owned properties with deeds - and use a good solicitor...there is little doubt sales go through and title deeds are transferred quickly - esp if paid by cash - with a receipt - not by chq.



But my advise would still be RENT - lots of places will come on the market and lots of pips will squeak in the "rump" RoC .. just like the "TRNC".. Many Brits feeling the pinch of a euro that means their pension in GBP don't stretch as far.



Who knows they might live in the "rump" RoC and decide to try out "TRNC" - and there might be a "settlement" and we can review everything ;)

dustyrhodes


Joined: 26/06/2009
Posts: 19

Message Posted:
31/07/2009 18:20

As someone who recently returned from a fact finding trip to the old Green Island, I think you should do your homework first & take a long view. I think the property bubble is burst & not likely to be blown up again - my feeling is that there are some serious issues due to the status of North Cyprus and they haven't been resoloved. I used to live in the north & am a Turkish speaker & although the place still takes your breath away & there has been a lot of progress & development over the last 15 years in terms of infrastructure, lots of stuff is guaranteed to send you into a merry dance. I also think it's important to think about what stage of your life you're at. I don't think you'll lose out in north Cyprus but there's no megabucks to be made there in property anymore. TRNC is definitely more 'like home' than Turkey but that's not necessarily a good thing-at least you've made the hardest break-leaving the UK