Breaking News - Orams Lose

joandjelly


Joined: 24/02/2008
Posts: 2953

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 12:09

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8022238.stm

daisy dukes


Joined: 06/09/2008
Posts: 3815

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 12:29

oh shit!



DD

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 12:37

thanks for that joandjelly,

i was just reading the other thread with full ecj ruling, nothing new i think we all knew it was coming.

Sandcastle


Joined: 16/03/2009
Posts: 215

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 12:40

Does this also now mean that Turkish Cypriots can have their land back in the south? What will happen to Larnaca airport seeing as thats built on Turkish Cypriot land?

Geoff1131MK11


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 12:41

Dont worry.



You will die if you worry.



And you will die if you dont.



So why worry?

daisy dukes


Joined: 06/09/2008
Posts: 3815

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 12:46

i would rather die in my own home Geoff



DD

bridie


Joined: 18/09/2008
Posts: 308

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 13:11

Things will get nasty, and the island will go back 35 years to the times of bumps and bangs in the night.

This is most unusual for people to get land back after a "war". It could only happen here. I am of the opinion now that the Greek Cypriots only joined the EU to be capable of claiming their land back and getting the upper hand once again.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 13:15

dd,

if you live on exchange land it was never your own home!

kavenkoy


Joined: 10/04/2008
Posts: 1787

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 13:16

re 8



land and homes are different things .



kav

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 13:20

other peoples property has always been their's , not yours.

alcozaso


Joined: 19/04/2009
Posts: 18

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 13:22

so do israel now have to give back all their land to the palestinians, the aussies to the aborigines, and the usa back to the red indians

Turkey will just annexe it now, it still has to look after its own people, their was damage on both sides but the gcs want it both ways

Geoff1131MK11


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 13:23

fire starter, you are a real ray of sunshine on this forum!!!!!!!!!

Remli


Joined: 15/04/2009
Posts: 27

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 13:24

uhm can you add Northern Ireland to that list Alcozaso?!

hattikins


Joined: 17/02/2008
Posts: 2793

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 13:34

Orams lose, NO, Cyprus loses.

This judgement has set Cyprus back many years, it signals the end of the talks, which many of the GC supporters on this forum have been hoping for, property prices on both sides of the island will stagnate or fall, land values the same. Ill feeling and mistrust will once again surface, Cypriots on both sides are going to be worrying that they are going to have to move again and start over, leaving behind homes, jobs, friends. And for what, so that some politically motivated person, or persons, can have back his little patch of land, is it going to be worth it in the long run.

Whatever the situation is I am still moving there next month, into the house that we built on the land we paid for, taxes as well, the house that we have the Kocan to, nothing is going to change that, I for one will not spend my remaining years worrying over something that may never happen, life is for living, not fretting.

bootneck



Joined: 23/06/2008
Posts: 242

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 13:35

It will be very interesting to say how this develops as i for one dont think the TC's are going to take this lying down for a change!

Geoff1131MK11


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 13:37

hattikins, i agree 100% enjoy your time here as i intend to.

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 13:39

To be fair it not an unexpected result though is it?

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 13:42

you should have listened to the advice from your own goverment, not from the estate agent.

just another little ray of sunshine1

bootneck



Joined: 23/06/2008
Posts: 242

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 13:42

hattikins another 100%

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 13:49

hattikens. Great Post! Totally agree with you. The borders will be shut before then end of the year.

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 13:55

Fire Starter



It is not over yet has any building been demolished or been ordrered to be demolished??

have any assets been seized??

Any financial compensation ordered to be paid??

Absolutely nothing has been done, it is purely a paper exercise there is no Victory.



Unless you take into consideration that the Talks will now of course go in only one direction a split island so really the victor is the TRNC.

Pearlbayer


Joined: 06/10/2008
Posts: 204

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 13:57

On all these threads that are going on today I have not seen anyone mentioning were Buyers can compensate the GC's, if they can prove ownership of the Land, which I believe the Annan plan proposed. So a GC can come along prove ownership and receieve the compensation for what was a bit of scrub land. In my situation , if I were to pay this compensation I still think it represents value for money. The GC probably wouldn't want to move back to a bit of scrub land anyway, if he/she were still alive, so all would be happy. NO ?????

breezyboy


Joined: 14/05/2007
Posts: 1179

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 13:58

Quite right Hattikins I totally agree with you.

As that wonderful TV show which strangely enough starred Private Pike! was famous for Cpl Jones line " dont panic Mr Mainwaring"! The lawyers will get another few years money out of this,like the Mousetrap it's set to run and run!

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 14:09

breezyboy..wonderful statement,sums it up entirely!!

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 14:12

wake up and smell the coffee!

hattikins


Joined: 17/02/2008
Posts: 2793

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 14:23

Turkish coffee of course, Fire Starter, nobody has listened to you before so they are not going to start now, why not just nip over the border and start your * celebrations* with Juliet and Pikey, give us a break.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 14:30

hatti,

i love my turkish coffee, thanks.

maybe if you had listen before buying you wouldn 't be in this mess right now!

and as i haven't done anything wrong and will never have any claims against me, i can go over and see my friends anytime i want.

unlike many who now will worry about crossing to use the facilities.

good luck hatti, your going to need it!

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 14:34

Fire Starter, just thought you may need reminding



It is not over yet has any building been demolished or been ordrered to be demolished??



have any assets been seized??



Any financial compensation ordered to be paid??



Absolutely nothing has been done, it is purely a paper exercise there is no Victory.

Unless you take into consideration that the Talks will now of course go in only one direction a split island so really the victor is the TRNC.

hattikins


Joined: 17/02/2008
Posts: 2793

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 14:36

Thanks Fire starter but as I am not worried your good wishes are a bit premature.

ROBnJO


Joined: 30/06/2008
Posts: 1289

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 14:46

I really can't believe Mr Apostolides actually wants to live back in Laptashire.



He wouldn't exactly be the most popular chap in the village.



This is purely a very simple test case of one property on one plot where the couple had title. Any development of multiple occupancy, with some sold & some not, some having title, some not, would be a minefield of Lawyers fees for many years to come. During that time it is very unlikely that any claim on anyones UK assets could proceed.





The ECJ had no option but to rule in his favour. They are there purely to apply EU Law within Member States.



Their judgement is both Enforcable and Unenforcable.





Game on!



Rob

breezyboy


Joined: 14/05/2007
Posts: 1179

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 14:50

Firestarter "you wouldnt be in this mess right now"



I for one don't think I am in a mess at all. I have safeguarded myself against any approach from anyone from across THE BORDER who is misguided enough to think he can take away what is now mine since his forbears tried to remove the Turkish Cypriots, dead or alive from Cyprus.

Poor GCs who never harmed anyone, I dont think. Still cannot accept that they got pushed back for good reasons.

Let them waste a huge amount of money trying, probably more than they have actually got. Bring on the guns Nick! Find out what an Englishman's home really means to him!

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 14:57

I,ll be taking the opportunity to look for a bargain on a complex, where the chances of any GC gaining recompence are very limited.

Joe Soap


Joined: 17/10/2008
Posts: 170

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 15:00

Re Firestarter message 27



"expats homeowners" now will worry about crossing to use the facilities.





I am sure you are right Firestarter.



Some of the GC businesses might worry about losing much of their business too.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 15:09

pilgrim, you are right. The complex will will the place to buy.

rocking


Joined: 05/11/2008
Posts: 421

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 15:22

Mess. 15 completely agree this will really harden the TC against their 'friendly neighbours'. If they think they will get land back here after all these years they are sorely mistaken. I hope people do not make shopping trips across the border - I think the TCs are awakening from their sleep and it will not be as easy as the GCs think - why doesn't Talat pick up his papers from the talks and walk - no way we can all live together.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 15:23

firestarter msg 27



"unlike many who now will worry about crossing to use the facilities."



As far as this ruling does reduce the numbers of people living in the North going to shop in the South, it is of benfit to the TRNC in general. Just one fo those strange ironies I guess, like the Annan Plan creating the property boom in the North.



Personally I will still be crossing to the South as and when I feel like it for the foreseeable future.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 15:41

Tomms I disagree re the decision affecting the talks. It will have imo a significant impact on public opinion in the TRNC with regards to the EU. Already the TC community feel let down and betrayed by the EU following the failure of it to deliver on it's promises to the TC community post the Annan Plan. This will feel like another betrayal by the EU towards the TC community, where it feels like the EU is saying that those living in the North can be subject to punishment on prosecution under EU laws for acts in the North but can have no of the benefits and protection fo such laws in the North. This undermining of respect and trust for EU by the TC community will only make it harder to secure a yes vote in the North should a new plan ever be put to a referendum here. Talat has to try and broker an agreement that the TC community can vote yes too (as well as GC) and this ruling has imo made that task harder for him. GC positions will harden and TC will be less inclined to



[cont]

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 15:41

erolz,

just one step closer to isolation i guess? or could it be one step closer to a solution?

what will be , will be and there is little anyone can do about it.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 15:41

accept compromises to gain full EU entry when their respect and trust in the EU has diminished.

flutterby


Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 214

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 15:46

I am just wondering, living in this illegal state of TRNC that is not recognised by anybody and in fact does not actually 'exist', how any sort of outside ruling or laws can actually apply!!!

Purchasers have purchased from TRNC Government, permissions to buy accepted by TRNC Government. We are actually in a little time warp, how can outside rulings ever possibly apply!!!!!!!!!!!

vincehugo


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 208

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 15:48

Hi Erolz, Re Msg 38/40



I would have thought that the Apostolides decisions will also make GC's less inclined to accept compromises with regard to property in any proposed solution. They may now believe that there are other ways to get their property back without voting yes to a settlement.

bah100


Joined: 17/01/2009
Posts: 41

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 15:55

If my memory is correct the British Court referred to the ECJ to see if the RoC had the power to issue a judgement on property in the North, now they have been told they have it is the British Court which will decide the case not the ECJ. So if this goes against the Orams in the British Court then they will appeal to a higher court all the way to the house of Lords.



It is illegal I understand in the TRNC for anyone to serve court papers from the RoC here so should anyone turn up trying to do so I would recomend a call to the police while you keep them occupied so they can be arrested and then dealt with.

bootneck



Joined: 23/06/2008
Posts: 242

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 16:05

Short and sweet bah100!

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 16:06

tomms and others:



the bbc has just reported that the judgement is likely to

"harden attitudes to a settlement" among the turkish cypriots



of course!



but then the other side never believed there really is

any settlement around the corner because they won't compromise:

this they revealed very clearly by 89% voting "no" in 2004



and the select group of their supporters on this forum know it too,

so why do they still persist with this "maskirovka"?



I think we should be told



andre

Seasider


Joined: 16/09/2008
Posts: 69

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 16:19

Where are we? In a country that voted for a settlement under the Annan Plan. In a country that was promised so much by EU in return which has not materialised. In a country where EU has now allowed it's members to seek compensation against other EU citizens for loss of property even though the UN settlement plan including property issues was supported. In a country where GC was given membership of EU despite their overwhelming NO vote to a settlement which was endorsed by EU. In a country where EU courts have probably destroyed any chances of a settlement despite the will of the 2 leaders. In a country where EU has shown yet again that by interfearing it has destroyed the peoples will. In a country that will probably find it's solution as part of Turkey and independent of EU - lets hope so!!!!

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 16:23

tomms msg 43



"what has happend today will push the talks for a future of the island,"



I sincerly hope you are right but I genuinely fear that you are not. I see a hardening of attitudes on the GC negotiators side re property and a dimishing of desire amongst TC to be part of an EU that they feel has betrayed them. TC wanting to be in the EU was a major factor in securing a yes vote from them re the Annan Plan. I just think that more and more TC are questioning if they want this any more, given their perception of how the EU has treated them post the Annan Plan vote vs what it promised to do and largley has failed to do. This latest ruling imo has to accelrate this declining faith of TC in the EU as an insitution and as such makes finding a settlement that both communites can and will say yes to that much harder.

Dixie Normus


Joined: 22/02/2008
Posts: 820

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 16:31

Hot off the press Greek Police stopping and checking Eu passport holders for TRNC residency stamps and impounding vehicles, mass panic at Larnaca Airport as Trnc residency holders are arrested.























Dont panic am only kidding





D.N

Howmuchlonger


Joined: 08/11/2008
Posts: 61

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 16:33

erolz - I agree that the TC's see the EU as treating them badly, but I really don't think they will consider this ruling against the Orams as part of it. This is only going to affect EU citizens with assets in the EU and I really do not believe the TC's care about those people, and this is proven by how badly foreign purchasers of TRNC properties are being treated - they are cash cows for the TC's and that is all. I have been told in no uncertain terms by various TC's that they do not like the influx of 'foreigners' but they are very happy about the money they bring.

joandjelly


Joined: 24/02/2008
Posts: 2953

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 16:40

Juliet re message 47 why don't you save yourself the bother of retyping everything here by just linking to your messages here http://www.cyprus-forum.com/cyprus23674-120.html

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 16:44

Howmuchlonger msg 51



"This is only going to affect EU citizens with assets in the EU"



That is not the case. It affects any TC living on disputed property in the North who has assets in the EU. There is no reason, beyong 'tactical' that a case in the RoC courts could not be brought against a TC as easily as an EU citizen. As these are civil cases brought by indivduals and not the RoC state the chances are that it will not be long before a case is brought against a TC. Nor can I see how the RoC courts can rule such use of disputed land in the North is illegal when the user is an EU citizen but legal when it is a TC.



As far as I am a TC I can tell you honestly that the EU in general has vastly disapointed me and I think it has done nothing to date to increase the chances of reaching a solution and much to damage such chances, including todays ruling. I used to think it could help. Now I think differently. I doubt I am alone.

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 16:47

Aw cmon Juliet selective reporting, what about this one?



Constantinos Kantounas, lawyer for Apostolides, said he was ‘ecstatic’ at the outcome but doubted the ruling would open the way for hundreds more Greek Cypriots to demand restitution for properties they were forced to flee.



“This was a total vindication for Mr. Apostolides. I doubt it will open the flood gates it is not easy at all, I very much doubt that many will follow,” he told Radio Napa.

Howmuchlonger


Joined: 08/11/2008
Posts: 61

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 17:04

erolz - yes I now see and agree that yes, a TC could be got at in the same way if they have assets in the EU. Not so sure though about your faith in the consistency of the GC's with your statement 'Nor can I see how the RoC courts can rule such use of disputed land in the North is illegal when the user is an EU citizen but legal when it is a TC." But I do hope you're right!

rtddci


Joined: 29/12/2007
Posts: 842

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 17:05

Howmuchlonger

I agree with you. How many TC's are debating the Orams case in coffee shops right now? I doubt it is the hot topic of the day. How many TC's own property in the EU and live on 'exchange land'? Nowhere near the numbers of British expats. Where is the TRNC government in all this? Does it or the locals care? TC's may no longer want to join the EU (may change their minds when they think of the subsidies that may come their way) but Turkey sure does. Guess who would win that decision?

daisy dukes


Joined: 06/09/2008
Posts: 3815

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 17:09

Wont the estate agents get into trouble for selling the property in the first place? Should they be worried...?



DD

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 17:15

I think whoever sold /developed the land in the first place should be the person(s) bought to account in all this, after all they sold it on as their land/property.

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 17:23

Doyen



Im sure that has been tried in court before



"Honest M'Lud I didnt know the person selling me it didnt own it!"





The whole situation will go on for a long time to come, it will just damage an already fragile property market in the TRNC

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 17:46

tomms. All is not lost.We await a response from the government and Turkey. I'm sure we live to fight another day. How long away that day is, who knows.



One thing is for sure do not be happy for the sake of others because humility influences emotional interactions between those who are

lifeless and disapproved.

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 19:12

I think the ROC knew exactly the effect this would have on negotiations,especially now that the UBP is in.

Maybe they think they can get the north back through attrition,and were only dragging things out by pretending they wanted a negotiated settlement.Talat has been led up the garden path



1.Does it not become impossible for a TC on exchange land,(and dont say not many,most of the apartment blocks haveTC's in them),to vote for some sort of union that would make them EU citizens.





2 If the TC'S now see that ROC,while asking for agreement on the property issue,then took the back door anyway via EU courts,possibly they might think the ROC would shaft them the same way on the property and other issues.





3 If I live in an apartment block and decide to obey a court ruling to demolish,how can I get the TC's or non eu residents, also living in the block to let me,unless I knock the place down when they are at work.?

The ruling says I have to give back the land, not my apartment!

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 20:13

tomms message 47:



you refer to the "famagusta" gazette an online newspaper actually published in nicosia

...just as the gc media refer to the so-called "education minister" of the trnc etc etc



may I suggest a few more expressions that look much better with inverted commas?



the "reunification talks"

41 russian tanks on the establishment of the cyprus "defence" force

3850 turkish tanks "available" to guarantee peace

six minutes "flying time" to cyprus

grandchildren to inherit family "property" north of the green line

government of the republic of "cyprus"



andre



ps



regarding any fifty-year legal struggle to demolish holiday homes in north cyprus:

this is not strictly necessary, they will very likely fall down by themselves anyway

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
29/04/2009 04:54

Msg 14, Well said Hattikins. Wish you luck on your move and years of happiness in your new home.



It would be nice to invite juliet to your house warming party, Tell her that I miss her. Doubt very much if she will be looking in on the forum!

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
29/04/2009 08:20

Dear Patrick, re msg 60



"Juliet" told me to tell you - "hi" and is reading what you ( and others) say about Mr Apostolides case ( why is it referred to as the Orams' case?! ) with interest ..... !

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
29/04/2009 08:25

I would like to invite juliet to a house warming party, joan-of-arc-style



but then again if you are in the right you are always persecuted for your beliefs



witch way to the gravy train please?

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
29/04/2009 08:40

I fear that this decision represents another sad day in Cypriot history.

There will be no winners but most certainly the Island in general will suffer.



The ROC "victory" gives them the upper hand in settlement negotiations. TRNC and Turkey must and will react.

Mistrust, fear and greed will prevail. The economic and political landscape will change, possibly very quickly as both sides diverge from current co-operations and convergence of asspirations.

I fear that the border will be closed and a military enclave will only isolate TRNC further. Property values and commerce will plumet due to an exodus of confidence on both sides of the Island.

I feel sad for the future today. I feel sad for Cypriots who so desperately, and for so many years need a solution and settlement.

Cyprus , its inhabitants and investors face a future of litigation, civil unrest social and economic decline generally. I see no winners in this sad saga.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
29/04/2009 08:55

from the coffee shop last night the feeling was they will also be pleased to get their properties and lands back in the south.

if the ruling applies to the gc's it also applies to the tc's.





waz,

the only winners are all those cypriots who can now claim back their properties/lands.

as for the property market it effects everyone as who would buy here now?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
29/04/2009 08:56

Dear Warren, re msg 63



the "victory" was that of a private individual - and the case may still be delayed further by an appeal within the legal system of England and Wales.



the "president" of "TRNC" has pointed this out and his reaction seems to be the same.



1/ It ISN'T a "border" to any country other than Turkey who maintain the surreality of a "state"



2/ If you note Erol - a TC, and I - have been pointing out why it is unlikely the crossing points would be "closed" - as a TC took TURKEY to the ECHR and won in March 2003 - which is WHY the "gates" opened...





How will property values be adversely effected by this verdict in the "south"?



What IS sad - is that you seemingly ignore the fact that a GC has proved that the surreal situation in the "north" doesn't mean you can avoid the legal consequences of occupying what is STILL someone else's land....



But I'm sure the verdict will be delayed for a little while longer in the UK...

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
01/05/2009 22:33

Oh c'mon people what VICTORY??



Lord Phillips asked for points of law to be clarified to assist him in his deliberations on the Case, the EJC has clarified those points of law that is all, there has been no real Legal Victory and the case is still ongoing and probably will be for quite some time yet.

Plenty of time for more than one twist in the tale.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
01/05/2009 22:38

again 6xm bandies about surreal

when de facto better describes the reality on the ground



surreality refers to a dream-like state,

like thinking this nuisance will hand one side a victory



dream on

ataturk


Joined: 09/09/2008
Posts: 712

Message Posted:
01/05/2009 23:10

Bah100 re message 42 you are quite right. My solicitor is the one who represents the Orams and I spoke to him the other day and he said to me everyone is getting excited for nothing as the ruling is only a recommendation not closure on the whole case. The Orams case will go on for a while still because if the british courts find it in favour of the Orams the Greeks will appeal and if they find it in favour o the greeks then the Orams will appeal.



SO, everybody including the greeks just chill out there is still a long way to go and nothing has been decided. If anything those brits who have no assets in the EU have nothing to worry about now. This whole case is a publicity stunt aimed at affecting the economy of the north.



I have houses that are built on greek land but we also have land on the greek side that has been built on, I dont hear the greeks saying come and claim your land back. They are willing to compensate the turks but they do not want compensation themselves.