Stamp Duty Tax and Registration on contracts with impediments

jokers2theright


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 174

Message Posted:
03/03/2008 13:59

Stamp Duty Tax and Registration on contracts with impediments/mortgages/debts in breach of contract OR litigation.

Has anyone been advised on the process of paying stamp duty and registration under these circumstances and Contracts in Court without stamp.

breezyboy


Joined: 14/05/2007
Posts: 1179

Message Posted:
03/03/2008 14:53

Hi Jokers,

Paying the .5% stamp duty is being handled by my solicitor as I did a power of attorney when I signed the contract in 2005. Otherwise they need a POA to do it. The cost of paying the stamp duty was included in my solicitors costs but this has to be done by 31st March unless it is a new contract.

Conversly the registration of the contract is chargeable by my solicitor who wants £350 for walking round the corner to the court house and presumably doing a few in one go. So I was going out soon , it's now just a bit sooner as it has to be done by April 8th to be sure of government assistance with any contract problems. The solicitor will give me all the paperwork and details of what to do and I need to go to the courthouse and register it .

Hopefully the end of another chapter.

Breezyboy

jokers2theright


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 174

Message Posted:
03/03/2008 17:42

ok well the advice I have received from my lawyer is that one should go to the Tax Office and pay the duty but dont bother registering at the Land Registry because one needs the consent of the landowner presumably to do this. Thus there is no need to get a translation for the Land Registry cos it wont get that far.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
03/03/2008 20:33

Jokers,

Is it you or your advocate who is really joking? If the buyers need the permission of the landowner to have their sale agreement registered, then we might as well ask the defendants for permission before we go to court for anything. This is a real joke.



Now back to your quesstion:

"Stamp Duty Tax and Registration on contracts with impediments/mortgages/debts in breach of contract OR litigation.



Has anyone been advised on the process of paying stamp duty and registration under these circumstances and Contracts in Court without stamp. "



Sale contracts in relation with land which has a mortgage or impediment on it can be rgistered but if there is an injuction on it i.e. a court order, then registration should be refused. Even if the agreement is registered, the present mortgage on the land has priority. In court the judges will not allow anybody to present any document in court without proper stamps. This has been the case ever since the stamp law in 1963.

ismet

"

Living on Mars


Joined: 29/02/2008
Posts: 54

Message Posted:
04/03/2008 16:50

We have also been made aware that we have an impediment on the land of which our villa has been built on. The land is also shared with other villa owners, our lawyer stated to us that, that by the act of registering the property with the Land Registry Office, we would agree to any impediments on the land, and that this is the only way forward! In my opinion this advice does not sound right, and we told our solicitor that we would seek independant advice. Can anyone shed any light on this situation. We are making a special trip out to TRNC in a weeks time to try and sort everything out. The construction company who took out the guarantee on the land, refuses to answer our calls, and we have had to resort to legal action, which we now been adivced by the HBPG, will do nothing! No one so far has given us any sound advice!

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
04/03/2008 17:06

Living on Mars,

Can you please come down to earth and ask your question precisely and then I will try to answer it to the best of my ability.

ismet

Living on Mars


Joined: 29/02/2008
Posts: 54

Message Posted:
04/03/2008 18:10

Sorry Ismet, we know that the land has a guarantee on it, this has been confirmed following a search by a solicitor to be more precise, please can you advice on the following:

1. If we register the property in our names, do we have to agree to the impediment on the land?

2. Will having an impediment on the land, prevent us from registering the property?

3. Has an illegal act taken place by the construction company?

4. Will the impediment effect uslegally owning the villa?

5. The construction company as requested that we pay the KDV directly to them, can we pay the KDV to the Tax Office, thus making sure that the KDV is paid.

A reply would be most helpful, we are due to fly out in two weeks time, so any information would be useful.



Thanks

sjw1979


Joined: 09/04/2007
Posts: 162

Message Posted:
04/03/2008 18:23

is it 0.5 % of the purchase price or the value of the land ?

JamesB


Joined: 07/02/2007
Posts: 450

Message Posted:
04/03/2008 19:30

Hi Elko, did you used to post on the other forum? name sounds familiar.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
04/03/2008 19:46

Living on Mars:

There is no such thing as guarantee on land. Presumably it is a mortgage i.e. the owner of the land borrowed some money and mortgaged the land as security. thus if the owner does not pay his debt the land can be sold at auction and the lender has absolutely first priority to get his money.



Now, in the light of this explanation it becomes easier to answer your questions.



"1. If we register the property in our names, do we have to agree to the impediment on the land?"

The impediment is there already and whether you register your contract or not it does not change this situation. If you register you will be officially told about the impediment and probably noted on your receipt or something.



"2. Will having an impediment on the land, prevent us from registering the property?"

Impediment will not prevent you registering but if there is a court order on it i.e. injucntion on it, they may refuse to register. My personal view is that they should register nevertheless. Suppose later in time the court order is cancelled but you would not be able to register because the deadline for registration is missed. Hence you should insist on registration and if necessarry be prepared to challenge their decision by going to the High Administrative Court which has to be done within 75 days of the wrong decision.



"3. Has an illegal act taken place by the construction company? "

Why? Is the construction company and the owner the same? Even if so I don't think an illegal act has been committed. It was up to you to get some security in some way.(Don't ask me why you paid £1000 + to your advocate).



"4. Will the impediment effect uslegally owning the villa? "

Yes it will.



"5. The construction company as requested that we pay the KDV directly to them, can we pay the KDV to the Tax Office, thus making sure that the KDV is paid. "

KDV is paid to the Tax Office by the construction company. I presume that you have agreed to pay this inyour contract, otherwise you don't have to. KDV is payable to the tax Office when you are ready to take over the title deeds.



I am aware of the fact that the Director of Tax Office has sent a directive to Accountants asking them to effect payment of KDV when the keys are handed over to the buyer. He based his decision on the KDV Law 47/1992, temporary paragraph 2(1). This section gives authority to the Director to regulate how buildinds started before the passing of this law would be subject to KDV. It has nothing to do with the current situation and it does not give the Director any right to send such a directive. Hence in my view this new directive is not legal and its null and void. Would the construction companies take any notice of it? If they consult proper Advocates they will be advised accordingly. Buyers do not have to pay KDV until they are ready to take over the title deeds and only if the constructor produces the tax office receipt to prove that it has been paid.



ismet

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
04/03/2008 20:06

Msg. 9

JamesB,

I used to write on MSN Villa Owners and then we moved to the other TRNC Villa Owners. http://trncvillaowners.phpbb3now.com/index.php

I am one of the administrators there and I write regularly there. Its nice to be noticed.

ismet

JamesB


Joined: 07/02/2007
Posts: 450

Message Posted:
05/03/2008 10:40

Yes, nice to have you on here to advise, with your wealth of knowledge. What type of engineering do you as I do similar.

I used the other sit for a while but not as easy to use as this one and the people seem a bit warmer on here to.



Cheers Ismet

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
05/03/2008 13:30

James B,

I am an electrical engineer with experience in Research and Development and also in manufacturing.

We ahe frozen the old MSN Board and now we are on a much better one.

ismet

Living on Mars


Joined: 29/02/2008
Posts: 54

Message Posted:
05/03/2008 17:15

Hi Ismet

Thank you for the reply that you posted last night answering my many queries. I wanted to write to you to show my appreciation for the first really decent answers that we have received over the chaos that we have uncovered on our villa.

We were horrified, and through our own ignorance and lack of judgement on behalf of our solicitor, who did not advice us that the land should have been registered within one month of the contract being signed, we did not therefore register the property in our name. I know now that we should have, but surely Ismet, an illegal act on behalf of the construction company, the Director of which is the one who has taken out a mortgage, must have taken place? We have fully paid for a villa and if what you are saying is right, and the debt is taken back by the bank then not just me, but many other Santa Fe villa owners may be in the same prediciment. I have been in touch with villa owners of other sights who have found the same problem with their land. If I sound panicky, I am. Am I a sitting duck, if Santa Fe run into financial difficulties then I stand to lose my villa?????????

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
05/03/2008 20:03

Living on Mars,

Thanks for the appreciation but I wish I could give you better news. Please do not blame your advocate for not rgistering becaue he/she could not. Registration became possible only with the new law. However a proper advocate should have informed you about the risks involved and if necessarry look for remedies. You would expect this from a fully independent advocate but in most cases certain builders work with certain Estate Agents and certain Advocates. Therefore you could not expect these certain advocates to be fully independent and talk about the risks. In that respect most buyers are at fault for not employing a fully independent advocate.



Some time ago someone was buying an expensive property in Girne. He knew me from the Bulletin Boards and asked me if my wife as an advocate would look at the proposed contracts and give her opinion for a fee. I think it was the best money he ever spent in all his life. The vendor was not able to offer the security my wife asked for and the deal did not go through.



ismet

Living on Mars


Joined: 29/02/2008
Posts: 54

Message Posted:
06/03/2008 10:50

Hi Ismet

I hope you don't mind but I have a further thought or two, you are the only one person I have had correspondence with, that really make sense.

Our advocate was linked with the builder - stupidly we trusted him and the constructor. Our fault indeed!

If we go ahead and register the contract, is there anything else that we can do to change the situation? Are there any legal steps that can be taken? Our advocate talked about an injuntion being placed on the construction company/owner, would this, in your opinion, do any good?

I have emailed the Director in question and asked that the mortgage is lifted - I think this is all we can do?? It just does not seem fair that we have bought the land from the construction company - and they have now mortgaged it on .... we have paid well in excess of £100,000 GBP, plus all the extras etc. Can the bank really take this away from us???? We are not living in the property, but others on the site are, and haved moved from the UK into there villa. Surely the Goverment can do something?



Thank you for the good information about the KDV, I have passed this on to the other villa owners on our site. I will ask the construction company for their receipt before we pay anything else, but I am really hard pressed to pay anything further towards the villa at the present time due to the circumstances? Thanks you by the way for the generator information.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
06/03/2008 13:11

LOM,

First of all get your contract registered, it is well worth the effort.



You talk about an injunction against the construction company. An injunction for what? If they have any "unsold" and not yet mortgaged property in their name it may be worth considering it. Probably most of the property in the name of the company is sold but title deeds not transferred yet. An injunction on such property (including yours) can make matters worse and drive the company into bankruptcy if not so already. It is impossible to advise on such a situation without knowing the full facts.

If your advocate was linked with the builder, how is he/she going to sue the builder in a proper way? It can turn out to be a show case with no real intent and only a way to get more money out of you under the excuse of litigation. Am I very sceptic this morning? If you sue, you will be asked to deposit money into the court or produce a bank guarantee as "Security for Costs". This is standard procedure just in case you lose your case and the defendant wants to recover his costs.



Please ask for an independent legal advice, normally it is available free of charge in TRNC. However avoid one of those "copy and paste" advocates who can produce pages and pages of documents which amount to nothing in legal terms. I know too much because I have seen too much. It is the quality that matters.

ismet

Living on Mars


Joined: 29/02/2008
Posts: 54

Message Posted:
06/03/2008 14:39

Hi Ismet



Thanks (again) for the words of advice my friend. I believe you maybe right with regards the injunction. We never thought that we should go down this route. We will be registering the property on our arrival into TRNC later this month -before the deadlines. Our contract is pre 2004, we have all the paperwork from the original contract etc, as a matter of careful planning (just incase) a local (UK) Turkish friend of ours has agreed to translate the original contract for us. Once the property is registered we will proceed to pay for the stamp duty on the property, thus hopefully having this in place may help us in the case where the construction company may go bankrupt. This is our only hope. It is a concern that I have received several other replies on another forum from people who have bought from the same company, and have also found out that their is a mortgage on the land.

Living on Mars


Joined: 29/02/2008
Posts: 54

Message Posted:
06/03/2008 14:41

Hi Ismet

By the way ..... do you know where would best to get the 'independant' advice that you mention ......

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
06/03/2008 15:26

LOM

Please send me e.mail ismetus@gmail.com and let me know who is your current advocate.

ismet

Nasist60


Joined: 06/03/2008
Posts: 35

Message Posted:
06/03/2008 15:40

Hi Ismet



Due to your wealth of knowledge. Please could you offer some advice on the following:



I am also involved with the same developers as LOM but at a different site. We did not use the lawyer recommended by the company and chose our own. After reading all these postings about the developer I am becoming seriously worried. We have paid a considerable sum of money so far to the developer but if the developer had had his way, the whole villa would now have been paid for. Our lawyer advised us to make stage payments at different stages of the construction. The villa is now way behind schedule so we wanted to cancel the contract and have our monies returned. Our lawyer advised us against cancelling the contract as in his opinion this would take too long and be rather expensive and because of the time period involved the financial situation of the company could worsen. He had a meeting with the company and we were offered alternative villas which we have decided against, the company would return our money within one year or earlier if the villa was resold. We have another three stage payments to make. Our contract has not yet been registered but it will be before the deadline hopefully but we have discovered that there is a mortgage outstanding on the land. We now find ourselves in the situation of either writing off the existing money to the builders or going ahead with the purchase in the hope that the mortgage will be redeemed. Is there anything in you could recommend?

jokers2theright


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 174

Message Posted:
06/03/2008 16:07

To İsmet



do you have headache!

My question certainly brought in some interest didnt it.



Can you advise me a little more because İ am taking your advice and not only will I go the Tax Office and pay my 5% on 85k İ will also go to the Land Registry and insist that they register it. Do I need any specific form or just my stamped contract(s)?



Now reading above will all us buyers lose our purchase monies then. We all purchased in 2003.2004 and none of our lawyers did searches on the land (well all except 1 actually but by the time he met us all and made us aware of memorandums and ongoing court case between landowner and builder) it was too late we had made all our payments under the contract. Some of us have injunctions on our plot pieces and some dont since we learnt. However the landowner doesnt have the money and the Court have made an Order for Auction of the various plots bit by bit if he doesnt pay. The Court are not aware we purchased and have contracts but from what you are saying above the Builder will have first pick take his money and we take whatever is in the pot....am I right.



Thanks immensly.

Living on Mars


Joined: 29/02/2008
Posts: 54

Message Posted:
06/03/2008 16:54

Hey Joker .... how you doing .....

Where is your plot and who are the constructors?

This is really serious .... it seems to me that everyone is rushing around like headless chickens, worrying about Registering their property and paying stamp duty - when a lot of us are facing the fact that our properties may be taken away from us ..I think this is a bigger issue. Why has this not been reported about in Cyprus today? Does anyone know of anyone who has actually lost their property in this manner?????? Lets get this into perspective everyone, never mind the stamp duty - what about the bank taking property from us that we have paid for!

jokers2theright


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 174

Message Posted:
06/03/2008 17:35

Y E S Y E S too true. The HBPG were aware of our plight 2 years ago and the new group too. It did go to the press about 1 1.2 years ago. We also had some meeting set up in the Gov offices but the guy didnt turn up. We have been hitting a brick wall for 3 years.



I dont want to disclose too much about the location and the builders stopped building in 1989 when they didnt get their money from the landowner. The propertıes were finished poorly by Turlishlabour.



Do I need any form when I go L Reg

Living on Mars


Joined: 29/02/2008
Posts: 54

Message Posted:
06/03/2008 18:14

I have you been able to keep you villa then ?????

LOM

rtddci


Joined: 29/12/2007
Posts: 842

Message Posted:
06/03/2008 19:03

Surely the builders need to be named and shamed? This must be in the public domain already?

Martin

Living on Mars


Joined: 29/02/2008
Posts: 54

Message Posted:
06/03/2008 19:15

It is. There has been much discussion on the topic on the Home Buyers Pressure Group Forum - not the Marion Stokes site - the other one.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
06/03/2008 20:03

Some are living on Mars and some are joking but seriously, the whole thing is a mess. All I can say is that you need good lawyers to deal with your individual cases because fine details may be all important.



As an overall view all I can say is this:

1. If there is a mortgage on land, the person or bank who had the morgage on it has absolute priority. However, if he knew or was in a position to know that these houses were sold and paid for, there is a slim chance of fighting for your rights in court. Our laws are very similar to those in UK but the way our judges look at things are very different and it matters a lot. We do not have Lord Dennings here. The one we had died many years ago.



2. If the dispute and the injuction is between the builder and the land owner, then you have a much better chance to get involved in the case but it will not be easy. You will need a lawyer with very good experience and English training. I know the best but he is older than me and does not take on just any case. If you can get together and go for group action, he may be interested. As a young man he worked at the Land Registry Office when he packed in and went to England to become a Barrister.



3. I suggest you do not pay VAT until the developer is ready to transfer over the title deeds. They should not pay the VAT themselves at this moment and challenge the tax office if they insist. They don't have a leg to stand on



ismet

pond JuMpEr



Joined: 16/11/2007
Posts: 58

Message Posted:
07/03/2008 00:12

Why should you pay the stamp duty on a contract signed before 1/1/08, if the builder has taken out a mortgage on it. Are you throwing good money after bad?. Is their any advantage too doing this.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
07/03/2008 00:21

Pond,

If you wish to go after the person who cheated you, then sooner or later you will have to go to court and you cannot submit your contract in court unless it is stamped. If you are going to stamp it, ylou might as well register it to help you salvage whatever you can.

ismet

Nasist60


Joined: 06/03/2008
Posts: 35

Message Posted:
07/03/2008 08:37

Ismet



Please could you reply to Message 21. I realise that as the developers still have a mortgage on the land, it is the bank that has priority. The villa is already 9 months behind schedule and the developers have asked us to give them another year to complete it. As we have only paid the first two instalments on the villa (65K) and we have another three to pay. We feel we either write off the monies already paid or carry on the payments to the developer in the hope that at the end the mortgage will be redeemed. If we were to carry on the instalments, when the villa is completed and the final payment made is there anything we could do to ensure that the developer redeems the mortgage (that is if they are still solvent!!).

Thanks

spook


Joined: 23/01/2008
Posts: 244

Message Posted:
07/03/2008 09:00

Nasist60

Only a suggestion but would there be any merit in you all arranging a meeting with the bank/builder to in order to reach some sort of agreement whereby your future installments are split part to redeem the mortgage part to the builder to ensure that on completion the mortgage has been satisfied

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
07/03/2008 09:11

msgs 21 and 31

Nasist60,

If you like to gamble, we have many casinos in TRNC and I hear that the food is free!!!



I feel that your advocate is advising you to throw good money after bad. It is a matter of personal choice.



My view is that no matter how your contract is written, the developer has acted in bad faith by allowing a mortgage on it. You may end up with nothing but it is only a possibility.



If I were you, first I would register my contract so that the developer cannot resell the villa and then I would not pay another penny. Give him notice that you are prepared to pay in accordance with the contract when he has the mortgage lifted. Let him take you to court if he so wishes. If it was not for the new law he could have sold it to somebody else. Now, once you register it, he has to run after you and if he does sue you, your advocate will put in a counterclaim asking for compensation. You cannot ask for the title deeds because of the Specific Performance Law. That is another sore point with me.



At the end of the day, it is up to you how you wish to gamble but whatever you do it will be a bit of a gamble either way.

ismet

spook


Joined: 23/01/2008
Posts: 244

Message Posted:
07/03/2008 11:29

Good advice from ismet, a leading London solicitor tells me to remember two things.

1. If possible always negotiate dont litigate.

2. Always remember that there is only one winner and that is your solicitor.

Nasist60


Joined: 06/03/2008
Posts: 35

Message Posted:
07/03/2008 11:30

Spook



Thanks for your suggestion - I had thought about that but did not know whether it was possible to do. I do think that I am in a no win situation.

Nasist60


Joined: 06/03/2008
Posts: 35

Message Posted:
07/03/2008 11:36

Ismet



Thank you very much for your advice - I really appreciate it. Excuse me of my ignorance but what is the Specific Performance Law?

spook


Joined: 23/01/2008
Posts: 244

Message Posted:
07/03/2008 12:12

Nasist 60

You are probable in a stronger position than you think,you have to pay a further 3 installments, the builder wants this cash, he will be unable to resell if you register the property with the land registry office, this could only help your cause, ismet may be able to give you further advice in respect of your Advocate ie is he up to the task or should you be looking for a good litigation Advocate, you should also consider together with other affected buyers joint action, it might also be helpful if you can obtain the date when the bank granted the mortgage and compare this to the contract dates,if this was after the propertys were sold you may be able to mount a good case against the bank for not excercising " Due Diligance"



Good Luck,dont give up, above all dont part with any more cash without your getting a satisfactory solution

jokers2theright


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 174

Message Posted:
07/03/2008 12:21

Specific Performance..... I think it means there is no law to force a vendor to transfer title (even though all money paid under the contract)

Nasist60


Joined: 06/03/2008
Posts: 35

Message Posted:
07/03/2008 12:28

Spook



Your words have given me a bit of comfort!! The only problem I do not know who the other owners are. Three plots are still unsold. I have been told that one of the directors of the construction company is apparently buying one of the villas and another employee of the company is buying another.

I think I will have to tread very carefully.

Nasist60


Joined: 06/03/2008
Posts: 35

Message Posted:
07/03/2008 12:31

jokers2theright



I should have known that will be the case. When will the buyers be protected?!!!!

jokers2theright


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 174

Message Posted:
07/03/2008 12:37

İsmet Elko 2



Thanks for the information. I wonder if we are going to be the first lot of Brits whose properties will go to auction. They wont get us out easy its going to be a bloody battle!



A couple of us already have a lawyer who has issued a Stay of Execution but we dont get much of an explanation of what it means exactly...which way it can go...worst case scanerio etc etc. We are all in the dark somewhat.



We think the landowner was ordered by the Court years ago not to sell due to the court case with the builder (the one who is owed money) and that he could only rent. That must mean he has acted fraudulently and should go to jail because he want ahead and sold. Anyway thats another story.



İm told that up to now the Court were not even aware their are people living in there.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
07/03/2008 13:24

Nasist,

For Specific Performance please see http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/petitioncyprus/index.html

ismet

Living on Mars


Joined: 29/02/2008
Posts: 54

Message Posted:
07/03/2008 15:08

Thanks Joker for originally bringing this topic to the attention of us all. But I think we need to keep everyone else informed, particular any other owners of the villas constructed by the company that Nasist 60 and I have.



By the way, another villa owner confronted our construction company about the mortgage on the land where his villa is built (a seperate site to ours) - they did not deny the mortgage and white washed the whole idea that anything was wrong .... don't worry I put him right!!! I am so sick of all the lies that this particulay construction company keep telling us ....

Nasist60


Joined: 06/03/2008
Posts: 35

Message Posted:
07/03/2008 18:07

LOM



I am on a different site to you which site was the other man from?

pond JuMpEr



Joined: 16/11/2007
Posts: 58

Message Posted:
07/03/2008 19:02

Elko

I have been told that i can get my contract stamped, but not register it as the bank have taken an injunction on the site.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
07/03/2008 20:18

Re. msg. 45



They do not accept registration if there is a copurt order of any sort on the property but I believe that this is a wrong decision. They should accept registration as it is the case with mortgages. The office may argue that they cannot acceptregistration because that would mean doing somethingand thus contravene the court order but accepting registration does not mean that they are doing something with the property. If the court order is removed in the future, your registration will give you the protection you seek. What happens if the court order is lifted after 7th April 2008 deadline? You will not be able to register afterwards and thus it will be detrimental to your interest. One has to argue on these lines and persuade them to accept registration. Failing that, I would recommend a recourse to the High Administrative Court but that must be done within 75 days from the date your registration was refused.

I know its all very annoying but it must be done in order to protect your interests, at least what's left of it.

ismet

rtddci


Joined: 29/12/2007
Posts: 842

Message Posted:
07/03/2008 22:56

I've added my name to the internet petition as per message 42.

Martin

Nasist60


Joined: 06/03/2008
Posts: 35

Message Posted:
07/03/2008 23:02

Ismet



Thanks for that - I have also added my name to the petition.

jokers2theright


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 174

Message Posted:
08/03/2008 10:57

İsmet Elko 2



Message 41 can you comment at all?



Ta

archie


Joined: 21/11/2007
Posts: 1

Message Posted:
08/03/2008 14:44

jokers2theright



Is you property in Esentepe and are your lawyers the famous Girne partnership? I have had the same advise and have been told to wait for the outcome of the Court case before registering the contract and was told I could register the contract at any time.



A

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
08/03/2008 17:57

According to the new law 38/2007, paragraph 21(1)(D), the registration of old contracts has to be done within three months from the date announced. The start date was announced as 8th January 2008, thus the final date is 7th April 2008. QED. If they wish to extend this date, they have to amend the law and they cannot do it with a simple decision of the Council of Minsiters because the law did not give them such an authority.



Msg. 41

The court case referred to was a settlement out of court and the advocate for the landowner is very good and very cunning. I have known him for years and it has always been a pleasure to discuss intricate legal points with him. The parties agreed that the debt payable was I think £600,000 and unles it was paid within a certain time they would have the right to have certain parcels sold at auction and in the meantime they would have a memorandum on these parcels, the parcels with your villas on it!!!! As I understand it the rest of the property belonging to this gentleman was transferred switftly to members of his family. Since there was no mortgage on the said three parcels, the villa owners have a good case to share the prooceeds of the sale pro rata with the plaintiff. If there are any unsold villas and I understand that this is the case, the unsold villas may meet the demand of the plaintiff but you must not forget the interst that acrued in the meantime. So probably the unsold villas will not cover the full debt. In this case you must move fast and start a case for fraudulent transfer of the properties to members of his family and have the transactions cancelled before they transfer them to others and make things almost impossible. The time limit for such action is six years from the date you found out but a lot better if six years have not elapsed since the transactions took place. It is not an easy task but with a cunning and dedicated lawyer it can be done. I won such a case about a couple of years ago but I am only an engineer and not an advocate, thus I can conduct my own cases only.



Just a word of warning: If your lawyer feels confident to take on such a difficult task, he must do it with a new lawsuit and make everybody involved as parties to the case. According to the Civil Procedure Rules it can be done by application but has drawbacks and the High Court has set a precedence that it is better to do it with a new action. Just be warned and warn your lawyer.

ismet

jokers2theright


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 174

Message Posted:
10/03/2008 12:36

İsmet

elko2



Well İ didnt give away too much information under this forum but you seem to know everything about the purchasers situation and in particular the Landowner. Thank you for this detailed information. I will contact the others who purchased.





Dear Archie

No we are not Esentepe and our lawyer is not a partnership.

jokers2theright


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 174

Message Posted:
10/03/2008 12:48

İsmet Elko2



By the way does the injunction I hold stop the very good and very cunning Landowner from transferring any more land on the site or does it just protect where my own house sits?

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
10/03/2008 13:53

Msg. 52 and 53:



Not just a pretty face you know. Honestly I get so many private e.mails that I think I am beginning to compete with the Complaints Office!!!



The injuction protects whatever it says in the court order. Such orders normally refer to parcel numbers and it covers all the parcel numbers it states.

ismet

jokers2theright


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 174

Message Posted:
12/03/2008 15:51

TO ELKO2

İf you pop back into this discussion can you also pop into new topic MEMORANDUMS and İNJUNCTİONS ....

THANKS



I have learnt where you sourced your info and we are all meeting up soon to discuss your ideas with our lawyers....whoever you may be.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
12/03/2008 20:17

"TO ELKO2



İf you pop back into this discussion can you also pop into new topic MEMORANDUMS and İNJUNCTİONS ....



THANKS "



An injunction is a court order.

A memorandum is something else but I am not too sure about it. If you have a court order against somebody you may put a memorandum on his property but I think it expires in one year. So it should give you enough time to go to court and gt a court order to put it up for sale. However it may take years and years before its turn comes and there is even less order than the PTP business, i.e. really chaotic system with full of suspicions on how the system works.

ismet

lavendergirl


Joined: 21/02/2008
Posts: 13

Message Posted:
13/03/2008 21:47

So if you have a contract with the builder who is also the land owner and it says they will keep the land free of mortgage and they then take out a mortgage, why is that not fraud?

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
13/03/2008 22:02

Lavendergirl,

If one does not keep to the terms of a contract it means they have broken it and they are liable to whatever measures stipulated in the contract but breaking a contract is not a fraud. A fraud is a criminal offence but breaking a contract is a civil matter.

ismet

rtddci


Joined: 29/12/2007
Posts: 842

Message Posted:
13/03/2008 22:16

I would have hoped that it is fraud as well. It needs the TRNC police and courts to prosecute a builder to send the message out and not allow builders to hide behind inadequate civil law.

Martin

lavendergirl


Joined: 21/02/2008
Posts: 13

Message Posted:
14/03/2008 16:39

Thanks Ismet. I understand breach of a contract is a civil matter but for example, if someone writes a cheque out to buy goods and they know they have no money in their account, that is fraud. Surely in the same manner, if the builder intentionally goes to the bank to take out a mortgage, knowing they are not in a position to do that then that is fraud also. If the bank goes to view the land in question and finds half built properties, surely he must be asking the question "Have these properties been sold to someone?" If not, is he negligent to allow the mortgage to be approved?

Living on Mars


Joined: 29/02/2008
Posts: 54

Message Posted:
14/03/2008 16:55

Reply to message 44. Hi Nasist.



This guy is on a site by the same Constructors as us, as discussed on the HMPG site. Their villa is in Alsancak.



SOME REALLY GOOD NEWS EVERYONE!

I have had an email back from our constructors, folllowing an email that I sent them, quoting what Ismet adviced in Msg 10 regarding the KDV, and they have written to me agreeing with what Ismet has said. They have told us that we now do not need to pay the KDV, and they have instructed their bank to lift the mortgage from the land. Once this has been confirmed to us, we will then pay the KDV !!!!!

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
14/03/2008 17:55

Msg. 60

Lavendergirl,

You make some very good points. If I were your lawyer, I would argue exactly along similar lines. If I were the lawyer on the other side, then I would argue that I took out the mortgage in order to be able to finish the construction and hoped to pay back the dmortgage. If I did not take out the mortgage, I would not have been able to carry on and in the end everybody would suffer. So the mortgage was taken out in good faith and certainly not with the intention to fraud the buyers. If I were the judge, I would give the constructor the benefit of doubt.



You see, the law can be very elastic and we really need specific laws to give the required protection. The new law about registration is one such law. In the case of bounced cheques, it has been a criminal offence by law dating back to about 1987. So it became a criminal offence only by law.

ismet

kewen


Joined: 03/08/2007
Posts: 59

Message Posted:
16/03/2008 18:23

jokers2the right and lom, to go back to the beginning, how did you discover the impediment/mortgage that was on the land. if your advocate didn't reveal it?

Nasist60


Joined: 06/03/2008
Posts: 35

Message Posted:
17/03/2008 01:22

Hi LOM



Well done - I hope it all works out OK. How was your trip to TRNC and have you now registered your contract?? Please keep in touch and keep me informed as to whether SF redeem the mortgage.



Nasist

jokers2theright


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 174

Message Posted:
17/03/2008 10:20

kewen

how did you discover the impediment/mortgage that was on the land. if your advocate didn't reveal it?



Answer

Just 1 other neighbour had a search carried out and by the time he told us it was too late....all contract payments had been made to the landowner. He only made a downpayment at that time and I think got most of his money back he was lucky.

Tatty


Joined: 24/09/2008
Posts: 186

Message Posted:
24/09/2008 16:12

elko

how can a memorandum be lifted

tatty

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
24/09/2008 18:52

Tatty;

Have you tried a lift?



I am not sure if you really meant "memorandum" or "injucntion" or "mortgage".



Mortgage: It can be lifted by (a) the party who imposed the mortgage, (b) the title deed owner by order of the court if the court is satisfied that it should be lifted, (c) if a third party has a judgement against the title deed owner and the amount is greater than the amount of the mortgage, he can ask the DLO to allow him to sell it and the owner of the mortgage is satisfied first.



Injunction: The court orders the injucntion and only the court can order to lift it. If the court case is finalized i.e. final judgement given or withdrawn, you take the court papers to this effect and the injuction is lifted automatically.



Memorandum: If you have a judgement for a certain amount against the owner, you can submit the judgement to the DLO and put a memorandum on the property in order to stop the owner transferring it to someone else. I think the momorandum expires automatically after one year unless you start the proceedings to have the property sold by the DLO at an auction in order to satisfy the judgement.



Did I answer what you had in mind?

ismet

Harvey1


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 12

Message Posted:
24/09/2008 21:50

Ismet



If I signed my contract in May 2005 and a court injunction was placed on the land in April 2006 and the court has made its decision does any order made by the court now take priority over my registered contract?

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
24/09/2008 22:27

Harvey,

There are too many unknowns here:

1. What is the nature of the judgement?

2. Is it related to some affair after your contract?



Suppose the court gave judgement for a certain sum against the vendor and suppose the plaintiff put in a memorandum on the land that your contract pertains. In the meantime DLO refused to register your contract because of the injunction or possibly because of the memorandum. This is very much a grey area but in such a situation I would think your lawyer should bring action against the vendor and hopefully get a judgment against him for x amount of compensation. In such a case does the first plaintiff have priority over you? Very arguable. However if then you take bankrupty action against the vendor, normal proceedure for bankruptcy should follow. The trouble is that the judges and the advocates know very little about this, so they will all try to avoid it at all costs. I have first hand experience on the matter.

ismet