TRNC..please get your act together

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
09/03/2008 23:33

A review of the purchasing procedure is needed if the TRNC is to attract European buyers. Although the Estate Agents Law has now helped safeguard the buyer, we have a long way to go. Why is permission to purchase such a difficult process? Why do you not get to find out if you have been granted this until you have paid in full and its 3-4 years after you have lived in your house? I hear the latest law is that you are now expected to pay your vat on exchange of keys rather than when you get your title deeds. So if you are not granted ptp you will now be paying vat on a house you don't even own. How difficult would it be for the TRNC to process all ptp within say 8 weeks? Or houses be sold with ptp subject to police checks? Of course the government will argue that one should get ptp before purchasing the property. Are they joking? Would builders wait for 3 years before you were in a position to buy? If purchasers did this and stuck to this policy, many companies would be in financial crisis. Also I am disgusted at the news that many buyers on Sants Fe developments have discovered that their land has been mortgaged. How could this have been allowed to happen? I know that many on this forum have had good experiences but we can't help but feel sorry for those who are suffering due to laws in the TRNC that do little to protect the purchaser.

Come on TRNC get your act together and look at the long term consequences of your actions rather than concentrating on the quick buck.



Ranting finished!!!

spook


Joined: 23/01/2008
Posts: 244

Message Posted:
09/03/2008 23:42

Bradus

All good points, all i think covered by the HBPG in their meeting last week with the TRNC PM, have you read the report of the meeting on their website?

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
09/03/2008 23:50

1. Never pay the VAT until they are ready to transfer the title deeds to you.

2. VAT is payable by the vendor to the tax office. Never pay the VAT until the vendor gives you a copy of the relevant receipt from the tax office and show it to your lawyer to ensure that it is the relevant receipt.

3. The recent directive by tax directorate to accountants about payment of VAT when keys are handed over lacks legal basis. According to Cyprus Today the government is now preparing a new law to make this possible but as things stand such a demand is not legal.

4. On the legal front the most urgent thing now is to amend Chapter 232 Sale of Land (Specific Performance) Law which was passed in the year 1885. According to this law, if you wish to sue the builder for title deeds you have to do it within two months of signing your contract. Otherwisw you can only ask for compensation. Unbelievable? Yes but true.

ismet

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
09/03/2008 23:53

Yes,

common complaints on the island at the moment. Thank god for people like the hbpg. I get very angry at people being "legally" ripped off and loosing their life savings and the dream they hoped for becoming a noose round their neck.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
09/03/2008 23:55

Elko your 4th point just makes me more angry with the system.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
10/03/2008 07:47

Ref. msg 5

Bradus,

It makes me angry too but not with the system but with people who waste time talking to the government on other trivial things and ignore this all important issue. Somehow the importance of this issue has not sunk in.

ismet

jokers2theright


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 174

Message Posted:
10/03/2008 12:55

Elko 2

Can you put up a new topic to warn the next lot of purchasers that if the land is Pre Turkish Title they will NEVER get their deeds because the Gov now want to hold onto any pre 74 title owned by Cypriots and not give title to foreigners although the vendor can still sell it knowing transfer will never happen. This hasnt made headlines yet.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
10/03/2008 13:46

Re. msg.7



Where did you get this information? Probably its mostly true but no hard and fast rules about it. In my view the government shoul come clean and say so openly although I understand their position and they will be open to international criticism. Ugh, very difficult to announce such a thing but at least they should rule in a few days if this is the case.

ismet

AbbyG


Joined: 26/11/2007
Posts: 113

Message Posted:
10/03/2008 14:23

Sorry, am I being really thick, but is there a typo in this sentence



" if the land is Pre Turkish Title they will NEVER get their deeds because the Gov now want to hold onto any pre 74 title owned by Cypriots ......."



All this title deed talk is making my head spin, it's so confusing. Are you talking about Pre 74 Turkish OR Pre 74 Cypriot title deeds??? If Turkish, why would the government want to hold on to the title deeds; is it because Turkish title deeds are the only safe ones in the event of reunification and that there is danger in having any Exchange or TMD title deeds? I'm C O N F U S E D ...................



All this uncertainty about the legitimacy of even previously considered 'safe' title deeds such as Pre 74 Turkish title deeds is making me even more nervous about the decision I need to make soon about purchasing controversial TMD land.

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
10/03/2008 20:13

Having bought pre 74turkish title, but awaiting deeds, obviously concerned as to the authenticity and credibility of this claim that will never be transfered. Is there any basis of truth.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
10/03/2008 20:59

Pilgrim,

I am in the same boat. Are they rumours or is there any evidence that this is true? The only information I have is what is posted on the HBPG's site which simply confirms that many buyers with this title deed have been refused ptp. I contacted my solicitor some time ago with this concern and was assurred that it was untrue. More worrying was that on HBPG there was mention of offering people with this title deed 49 year leases rather than their title deeds. What a worry!

rtddci


Joined: 29/12/2007
Posts: 842

Message Posted:
10/03/2008 21:03

I have an apartment built on land with pre 74 Turkish title. Does this mean that English TC owners (who don't need PTP) are ok but I'm not? Does racial discrimination and the European Convention on Human Rights (Art 14) not apply to the TRNC?

Martin

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
10/03/2008 21:14

Hi all,

Where as this rumour actually come from,i always understood that pre-74 were the safest,

Regards,

Paul.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
10/03/2008 21:17

If you have or have not been granted ptp on pre 74 land, within the last 6 months, perhaps you would be good enough to blog and let us know, so that we can at least have some insight into the scale of the problem.

rtddci


Joined: 29/12/2007
Posts: 842

Message Posted:
10/03/2008 22:47

I'm sure that I am not the only one who wishes he had never purchased a property in the TRNC?

Martin

tatlisu



Joined: 04/01/2008
Posts: 38

Message Posted:
10/03/2008 23:02

Hi Martin

After all that is going on i can honestly say I wish I had never heard of the TRNC. Such as shame as I love the place but feel we are all being taken for a complete ride. gail

rtddci


Joined: 29/12/2007
Posts: 842

Message Posted:
11/03/2008 12:46

Gail,

My feelings as well I'm afraid.

Martin

TonyH


Joined: 22/11/2007
Posts: 107

Message Posted:
11/03/2008 14:07

re pre 74 Turkish Title and receiving subsequent deeds.............confused.



Is the withholding of the deeds on new build properties or previously owned and now 'resale' property?



or is this just rumour central?



T

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
11/03/2008 20:16

Gail,

Really sorry that you feel like that,could someone explain in more detail what exactly is going on,

Regards,

Paul.

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
11/03/2008 20:24

Trying to substanciate truth, e mailed my turkish advocate , will post as soon as responce received.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
11/03/2008 20:39

Paul,

If these rumours are true are you in the same boat as gail.

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
11/03/2008 20:52

yes Paul, worrying.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
12/03/2008 00:25

There will be many of us in the same boat. What will happen if we do not get permission to purchase? We will have paid all money due, for a property we will never own! The Government according to HBPG is talking about offering 49 year leases on Pre 74 Turkish Title deeds. But would anyone have bought their property had they known this? I for sure would not have touched it. Its just too much money for a leased property.

I am praying that this is a rumour and is not based on evidence. However it is worrying for people buying pre 74. At he back of my mind I keep thinking that the government surely would not be so stupid as to initiate this. Can you imagine what the GC will say? They are happy to sell our property but will not allow this to happen to their own property. The international community would have a frenzy and all the support that was directed at the TRNC recently, which has been a long time coming, would be lost. Don't think this one has been thought through. Maybe Brits will end up at the immovable property commission trying to exchange their land in the north for TC land owned in the south!!!!!

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
12/03/2008 00:30

Newlad, hope this copy and paste expains what is going on. Its from HBPG



As our guest speaker is stuck in traffic, I would like to talk about the Permission to Purchase (PTP) situation. There are still coming through and so are the refusals. A worrying pattern is emerging whereby those with Turkish Title deed land are being refused – no lawyer will tell you that of course, (but we see the evidence) and of course, those too close to military land. We are currently seeking talks with the government to discuss these very issues and find a solution, a long lease may be one answer, but we shall see. The fall back position in the past for the government has been – well you should not have bought until you got your PTP, you broke the law and that brings us back to the lawyers and their neglecting to tell most of us that it was a law to begin with!

rtddci


Joined: 29/12/2007
Posts: 842

Message Posted:
12/03/2008 14:36

I'm told that the tax office and LRO are in complete chaos with long queques of British buyers, many apparently have flown over especially to sort it out. Arguments breaking out at the desk and domestics amongst those waiting. Frayed nerves all round I'm sure. HBPG hopeful that an extension may be granted beyond the current deadlines 31st March/8th April. Damn well hope so.



Meanwhile police are helping with the $200million budget deficit by holding roadblocks for cars and checking everything i.e. first aid kits and dishing out fines.

A quadbike is no longer a tractor for road tax & driving licence purposes but a commercial vehicle requiring a special driving licence and a work permit (even if not working).

Even my long time friend and absolute fan of the TRNC is finding his attitude tested to the limit.

Martin

Newboy


Joined: 21/02/2008
Posts: 80

Message Posted:
12/03/2008 15:16

The plot thickens and would drive you to despair. What next?



Ray

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
12/03/2008 16:13

Reliably informed that english buyers on Phase1 new villas site ( pre74)have their ptp. I'm on phase 2 still waiting, along with several other brits,checking their position where possible with them.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
12/03/2008 19:14

I received email from pco this morning. It requested my ptp application number and full names of purchasers. Did not address the questions asked regarding if this was fact or rumour.Have given details as requested but repeated the same questions again. I await reply.

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
12/03/2008 19:39

Hi Sue just emailed you.

regards

p

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
12/03/2008 20:32

Thanks Bradus,

All still appears to be as clear as mud,

Paul.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
12/03/2008 20:46

Newlad,

why the name change? Nothing dodgy I hope!

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
12/03/2008 21:10

Hi sue,

No as honest as the days long me.pc crashed and had to use another name to log on,

Regards,

Paul.

chrissie


Joined: 29/01/2008
Posts: 50

Message Posted:
13/03/2008 21:47

hi all

hope it's not too much of a bore bringing this back up, but from where i'm sitting it looks like all my plans have just fallen apart. do any of you knowledgeable folk have an update?

chrissie

rtddci


Joined: 29/12/2007
Posts: 842

Message Posted:
13/03/2008 21:51

Chrissie

Sorry to hear that. I'm still trying to make plans let alone have them fall apart. I'd welcome an update as well.

Martin

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
13/03/2008 21:54

Chrissie,

are you also concerned about pre 74 turkish title deeds not being issued?

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
13/03/2008 21:56

Chrissie,

I doubt if anyone on here would see it as "being a bore",why have your plans fallen apart?



Martin,

Hope things work out for you.

Regards,

Paul.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
13/03/2008 22:01

Chrissie nobody would think this is boring. It is a serious issue and the more we communicate and share information the better position we will be in.

At the moment it is hard to find out if it is the rumour mill or factual information. Any one with any information.......many of us would be grateful if you would share it with us.

tatlisu



Joined: 04/01/2008
Posts: 38

Message Posted:
13/03/2008 22:12

Well, Well, Well

Can things get any worse in TRNC.

Just had notification....... I paid Kibtek deposit of £65 last april, meter was installed and thought all was ok.

The meters were never put in individual apartment owners names, were all put in name of Seaterra.

Once everything kicked off about stamp duty we found out that the contracts were not in our name and could not be put in unless we get contract stamped.

We rushed and got contract stamped now to find out Kibtek has changed its mind and wants 540 ytl.

WHAT NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gail

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
13/03/2008 22:13

Sue totally agree,arent there any developers that read this forum that could put peoples mind at ease.I am sure that we would sooner know one way or another,

Regards,

Paul.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
13/03/2008 22:40

Its a very difficult situation. In one respect you do not wish to alarm people and turn this forum into one of those negative, whinging, look whats happened to me in the TRNC, type of forums, because this forum has always been a favourite of mine due to the support we get from each other. It also has a very positive outlook and tends to have a more balanced view than many of the others. However, nor do you want a happy,clappy forum where any problems are brushed under the surface and people get the impression that buying in the TRNC is a piece of cake. (which it certainly is not)

At the end of the day all we can do is wait to see if this is a government reform or if it a rumour. I am still awaiting a reply from the pco. It goes without saying I'll share any response with you all.

jmg171


Joined: 19/05/2007
Posts: 183

Message Posted:
13/03/2008 22:48

Why is it ..land search is not carried out till you pay legal fee's ,deposit on contract and maybe 30% contract price.

I never understood that one ??

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
13/03/2008 22:55

Actually Jackie, I believe that BARO recommend that you simply pay your advocate to do a land search (£50 approx according to them) before you commit to purchase.

Not many of our advocates suggested that one did they? Indeed their suggestions do not stack up. Look at their suggestion to get ptp before buying. How realistic is that one?

rtddci


Joined: 29/12/2007
Posts: 842

Message Posted:
13/03/2008 23:02

TRNC lawyers - You couldn't make it up ......

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
13/03/2008 23:03

Can I be one?

jmg171


Joined: 19/05/2007
Posts: 183

Message Posted:
13/03/2008 23:04

BROWN ENVELOPES SPRINGS TO MIND !!!!!!

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
13/03/2008 23:13

I suppose in all fairness, they can only work with the laws and reforms the government implements. What is needed is a radical, legal shake up to the conveyancing procedure, that protects both buyer and seller. Trouble is they appear to be a reactive rather than proactive government. I suspect nothing will change until the market completely stagnates and they have the message that no one will take the risk of purchasing in this country.

McSteviet



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1089

Message Posted:
14/03/2008 00:15

The Government and specifically departments within Government appear to be changing rules daily. I was always told that by my Lawyer, but didn't realise how true that was until I was there this week.



MC

TonyH


Joined: 22/11/2007
Posts: 107

Message Posted:
16/03/2008 18:57

bumping the post up........ this is serious stuff, any update?

rtddci


Joined: 29/12/2007
Posts: 842

Message Posted:
16/03/2008 21:44

Appears that what the TRNC government is really after is our cash. Mind you so is the UK government. At least in the UK there are laws and courts to uphold your rights.

Martin

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
16/03/2008 22:55

Martin emailed you regarding ptp.

regards

p

Milou


Joined: 15/10/2007
Posts: 425

Message Posted:
16/03/2008 23:20

Re post 196



WHAT FEW RIGHTS WE STILL HAVE LEFT!

REGARDS