A Scottish (satirical) poem from circa 1560

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 18:15

I'm reading a book about Scottish history and found the poem below. Is there anyone out there who can translate this poem from circa 1560 in modern English? Thanks!



Haly kirk and her theeves



Fye upon the traitor then,

Quhas has brocht us to sic pass,

Greedy as the knave Judas!

Fye upon the churle quhat solde

Haly erthe for heavie golde;

Bot the tempel felt na loss,

Quhan David Setoune bare the crosse.



(I know that "David Setoune" is David Seton, Grand Prior of Scotland).

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 18:20

Hans. I think it's something like this:



We have the Land

We won't give it back

It's definitely all ours

So get off our back

We've got our deeds,

Can't you see

Not only that

We have the Guarantee.



))

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 18:23

Seriously Hans, I've sent you an email.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 18:30

You think so, Bill? Well, thanks! I knew you were the only intellectual on the board...

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 18:31

I read msg 3 too late, Bill. Thank you.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 18:33

Dear Hans,



perhaps you could check your email re Skype and might even have an intellectual conversation



Roger and out ... ;)

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 18:36

Mark, I've sent you email re the subject mentioned at 5.15 hrs today - to the email address you suggested! Please check your Inbox at: mark.etc@xxx.co.uk

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 18:40

Bill and Mark: there is something very wrong with one of my email accounts. Send any mail to hddoeleman@gmail.com please. Thank you.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 18:45

OK Hans. I've re-sent it to the address above.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 18:56

1: Mail arrived sound and safe, Bill! I appreciate it. Thanks.



2: Mark, have you got my email? Reply to: hddoeleman@gmail.com

come_on_aylin


Joined: 14/06/2008
Posts: 908

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 19:00

Here's my try:





Haly kirk and her theeves = Holy church and her thieves



Fye upon the traitor then, = Father about(regarding) the traitor then,



Quhas has brocht us to sic pass, Who has brought us to such a predicament,



Greedy as the knave Judas! = same



Fye upon the churle quhat solde = Father about(re) the peasant(rude, miserly, rustic fellow) who sold



Haly erthe for heavie golde; = Holy Earth for heavy gold;



Bot the tempel felt na loss, = But the temple felt no loss,



Quhan David Setoune bare the crosse. = When David Setoune bore the cross.



Have a look at http://www.dsl.ac.uk/ for Scottish Translations

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 19:18

Thank you, come_on_aylin. Interesting link!

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 20:40

I would agree with the above except for "fye" which I would translate

as something like "curses, shame" which makes more sense than "father"

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 20:55

Thanks, phylray. It makes sense indeed. Well, the poem - for me - is clear to understand now. Thank you all for your help!

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 23:16

You must be very interested in history, Dutchc?

ilovekibris


Joined: 18/05/2009
Posts: 394

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 23:20

phylray,



The clue is in his name and frequently flagged up tours and news groups.

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
27/06/2009 00:50

I know he knows a lot about the Crusades!