Orams - The Solicitors View

Hobbit-1960


Joined: 18/06/2009
Posts: 3

Message Posted:
18/07/2009 17:52

Has anyone else seen this. They think we're stoopid



http://www.solicitorsjournal.com/story.asp?sectioncode=3&storycode=14555&c=3&eclipse_action=getsession&eclipse_action=getsession&eclipse_action=getsession&eclipse_action=getsession

Harold2555



Joined: 19/04/2008
Posts: 1139

Message Posted:
18/07/2009 18:03

The problem with lawyers is that they are lawyers. The real world doesn't often intrude on hem and when it does they try to find a legal precedent to stop it. I hate them!



Harold

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
18/07/2009 18:07

msge 2 good point Harold. They are also highly risk adverse.

look2


Joined: 17/07/2009
Posts: 107

Message Posted:
18/07/2009 18:30

what if the ormas case loose (the end of the chapter one)

Than Chapter 2 starts:

look2


Joined: 17/07/2009
Posts: 107

Message Posted:
18/07/2009 18:37

chapter 2:

violent incidents between greeks and turks

closing the borders 2009-2010

direct trades with TRNC starts 2010-2011

conspiracy theorie of Renegotiation TRNC 2011-2013

talks on the reunification of Cyprus starts agian with under un-usa and eu ambrella

Dream of Independent TRNC becomes reality

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
18/07/2009 19:21

This link is very legally predictable and in essence absolutely correct in its aspect.

What it fails to acknowledge is that the region of Cyprus known as TRNC cannot simply be expected to languish in the shadow of its dispossessed neighbours, knowing full well that many of their own kind have been similarly dispossessed. Attempts to find resolution have resulted in nothing. The TRNC has established itself and seeks the perfectly credible aspiration of recognition, human rights, prosperity and happiness.

This legal stance cannot be acepted as a credible route to a Cyprus solution. A political solution is far far too long comming and shame on world politicians for allowing ordinary people to suffer the fear, uncertainty and denial of human rights whilst the issue remains unresolved.

The solicitors make no reference to these facts and see no further than some law almanack. The current state of peace prevails and the TRNC cause is just and proper.

look2


Joined: 17/07/2009
Posts: 107

Message Posted:
18/07/2009 19:26

greeks never sleeps mate, but turks are.

cypwine


Joined: 09/05/2009
Posts: 177

Message Posted:
18/07/2009 20:55

msg 1..



"they think were stoopid" you said it

eager


Joined: 23/02/2007
Posts: 1272

Message Posted:
18/07/2009 21:04

Seems a pretty sensible article to me, sound advice i would say.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
19/07/2009 00:14

par for the course steve,



the comments made are reasonable, if erring on the "cautious" side

spot on that property issues like the orams put obstacles in the way of unification since 1974,

as well as stoking tension between the two sides

for example even trying to serve foreign court papers can result in seven years in a trnc jail:

as stavros chews his porridge he can at least console himself that the trnc and prison "don't exist"



nonetheless if 20,000 or even 20 eu citizens are ever disposessed I will be surprised indeed

while in the event of a compo deal, property values in the north will double almost immediately



whatever else happens, the more agro there is, the more money for solicitors like these guys!

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
19/07/2009 14:56

I'm surprised the usual suspects haven't jumped in and "corrected me"

about the chance of expats getting mixed up in the ongoing cyprus dispute

no dout one or two of the more schoolmasterly types will rise to the ocassion



it shoud be remembered that the anatolian turks are not only untouchable

for reasons almost too tiresome to repeat yet again,

but I doubt they waste time on the hand-wringing we seem to love on "44"



I don't argue for hibernation neither do I feel there is any need for defensiveness

it's naive to compare any legal aspects of north cyprus to a "normal" legal question,

more sensible to compare it to the mass-evasion of the maggie thatcher poll-tax

which also ended in tears



the sheer desperation of those seeking to make an issue of it all is reflected in stories

of panic in north cyprus whereas there is only calmness or even drowsiness:

cyprus-wide dodgy builders and secret mortgages are the main problems on the island

Hobbit-1960


Joined: 18/06/2009
Posts: 3

Message Posted:
19/07/2009 16:24

I agree with you, andre 514, absolutely. It's the blood sucking lawyers that will win in the end.



The article by Jenny Ramage makes clear three pertinent ideas:



1) That any ruling in an EU country is unenforceable in the TRNC & therefore impotent.



2) That a ruling is applicable throughout the EU therefore any assets held in the EU are at risk.



3) That a property in the TRNC is very nearly currently worthless.



Therefore I intend to dispose of my property in the UK to my son, who would inherit it one day anyway for a nominal fee on the understanding that should I decide later that I wish to retrieve it I can do so. All done in writing through a solicitor of course...



The lawyers have just won again, haven't they?



Cock

joanie1


Joined: 25/07/2008
Posts: 164

Message Posted:
19/07/2009 22:45

You just don't get it do you - I read this article thinking origin Daily Mail - always wanting to (respectably of course) sensationalise - or maybe a local paper with a property section on buying abroad - but the Solicitors Journal (maybe should be renamed 'The Ambulance Chaser' - you know those guys who employ people to chase up accident victims - or indeed anyone they find hobbling along on crutches (yes it once happened to a friend of mine with a broken leg) and offer no win no fee deal with 30% for them. With the collapse of the housing market in uk these jackals are left with fewer carcases to pick over so they are setting their sights futher afield. The solution to all the problems here are political not individually legal so just treat this article by hired hack Jenny Ramage with contempt and ignore it. Possession is internationally nine points of the law and let politicians worry about the other one.



Joan

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
19/07/2009 23:08

Turkish Cypriot daily Kibris newspaper (17.07.09) reports that the lawsuit filed at the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) against the Republic of Cyprus by the Turkish Cypriot lawyer Ata Dayanc has been admitted for hearing. The paper writes that the lawyer has filed an application to the Court because the Republic of Cyprus turned his house in Tahtakala area in Lefkosia into a school and does not pay him rent. According to the paper, in case no agreement out of court is reached, it is estimated that the trial will last for at least two years. Mr Dayanc demanded the return of his house and a compensation of at least two million Euro.



Tit for TAT?

We need a political solution not more court battles.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
19/07/2009 23:16

lg,



I hope he will...



wasn't there a play by terrance rattigan or another guy

about some rich old bloke who gifts his estate to his son-in-law

but gets done in on the very night when it becomes tax-free



perhaps it was called "the seven year (h)itch", anyone know?

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
19/07/2009 23:31

A wild guess here but I would wager the 20% in the south is worth a lot more than the 80% in the north !

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
19/07/2009 23:38

lg,



as cherie booth qc then wife of the british pm said to a hushed british high court in 2007

there needs to be an "overall political settlement" for cyprus

rather than acrimonious, expensive, piecemeal and inconclusive battles through the courts

which not ideally placed to sit on issues having a political and historical origin



your energies would be better spent teaching your chaps to adopt a sprit of compromise

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
20/07/2009 01:29

Compromise? You mean like returning to reality, allowing all refugees to get fair compensation, stop calling innocent pensioners carpetbaggers, reverse the hellenisation of the eu, set up a bipartisan commission to continue restoring churches, send all trusting home buyers in south cyprus their deeds etc etc



The problem is that both sides have contradictory agendas which are getting out of hand

Turkey (not the TC's)

in the military and physical sense overshadows the Greek Cypriots legalistics and moralising

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
20/07/2009 11:01

Dear Waz/ Warren

rem msg 6



Allow me to remind you or your oft repeated mistake..



>>The current state of peace prevails and the TRNC cause is just and proper.<<



The current "status quo" cannot and will not prevail as TR can't afford to pay for "TRNC" and the associated punitive damages for loss of use claims.



The TC cause is just - not the case for a "state" that won't EVER be recognised.. jyst as just.. the rights of Cypriots to live and work where they choose - ultimately..



andre_514



re msg 10/11



>>if 20,000 or even 20 eu citizens are ever disposessed I will be surprised indeed <<



Discussed before..

1/ RoC citizens are EU citizens and WERE already displaced - pore EU membership - and a lot more than 20 K



2/ Annan 5 allowed abrogations of EU norms - re HR.. that included folk having to leave areas and locals taking priority over non locals



Who are theese "untouchable Turks".. do you mean the 100-150K planted in "TRNC" to alter the population balan

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
20/07/2009 11:07

cont from 23



You sound like the Argentine FM at the time of the Falklands Crisis .. "we'll fly in our citizens - having captured the islands and we can take a referendum on whether the "people" want the islands to be Argentine or British.." !



Again, I remind you of the failed Annan Plan .. the TCs accepted that their was to be a limit on TR mainlanders.. THEY accepted this...



As for the Apostolides v Orams' case - how many more EU citizens have been served?

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
20/07/2009 12:43

mmmm

dont see whats wrong with balancing out the population so long as it stops at 50-50.

Ethnic cleansing becomes that much harder to implement when its not a majority doing it to a minority.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
20/07/2009 14:02

Dear Girne_29



re msg 25



>>dont see whats wrong with balancing out the population so long as it stops at 50-50. <<



Then it's lucky for us you don't sit on any panels re HR issues.. !

look2


Joined: 17/07/2009
Posts: 107

Message Posted:
20/07/2009 21:03

2 months and counting for the result of the case

Enchanted


Joined: 20/07/2008
Posts: 159

Message Posted:
20/07/2009 21:55

Bit longer than two months, it will be November.

I don't believe the Orams will loose their UK home

I have many Greek friends, and the majority of them are peace abiding people. Its only a minority of Greeks who wish to seek vengence on anybody they can find for the mistakes of their own Goverment which resulted in the lose of their lands. How easy it is to push the blame on the Brits and other foreigners who are spitfully called carpetbaggers, when the majority are in Cyprus for their retirement.

A TC friend had land in Larnaca, I asked him what had happened to it. He told me there where shops built upon it. I aiso asked him if he wanted to try and get his land back. His reply was interesting. He told me that he had moved on and rebuilt his life. He wanted to live a peacable existance, and he could see no point in turning another person out of their home. Perhaps its not puting a gun to their head to force them out, but it would bring financial ruin and more misery!.For what?

vincehugo


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 208

Message Posted:
20/07/2009 22:34

mmmmmm Re Msg 23



"Annan 5 allowed abrogations of EU norms - re HR.. that included folk having to leave areas and locals taking priority over non locals"



Remind me where Annan 5 saw "locals taking priority over non locals".

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
20/07/2009 23:02

mmmmmmmmm

msg 23,

Thank you for your comments,

I am afraid that your illustration of mistake is indeed mistaken yourself.

I see no reason or evidence that Turkey is unable or unwilling to continue with its stance and that it will not continue to strive for the rights of the TRNC. Punitive damages most certainly will not change the Turkish stance.

The TRNC cause is indeed just. Non recognition is not the ticket to failure that you mistakingly think. Just look at the past 30 plus years.

Cypriots should be able to live and work anywhere on the Island. ...Yes a right and correct aspiration. However as the ROC have chosen European status the same right applies to. British, Germans,Latvians, Polish and twenty plus other nationals known now as Europeans.

The ever changing face on the political stage moves the whole affair forward and towards a solution that is miles away from your continuous historical references to old attempts at solution.

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
20/07/2009 23:28

WAZ-24-7



27 in all, name them!



Richard

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
20/07/2009 23:36

Did the TC,s get a vote in the "joining the EU" saga.



If as said TC,s are welcome to move freely around the whole island and are classed as "Cypriots" then they should have had a say in joining the club.............yes/no ?

CyprusChill


Joined: 08/05/2009
Posts: 666

Message Posted:
21/07/2009 04:08

another peaceful day has passed us by.......

not sure about the south but the north remains a paradise.

lets hope another day may pass us by.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
21/07/2009 10:15

Dear Turtle



re msg 32



>Did the TC,s get a vote in the "joining the EU" saga. <<



Did GCs ?..



Dear Waz/Warren re 30



Nothing of substance in your response, I'm afraid..just unsubstantiated rhetoric.



One minute you tell us of TC "oppression", the next you point to "success"



TR has HAD to negotiate re Cyprus due to Courts cases at the ECHR going against it.. Due you need me to remind you of the cases - some of which were even brought by TCs ?



Indeed, the right to move freely around the island was won by a TC... I note we hear less "close the gates" since folk on here learnt that...



I believe you and I are "getting there" !