Let's put some things straight

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 11:33

How many times in the past five years or so did *you* experience real corruption in TRNC? No gossip and no hearsay, please. Just facts.



My honest answer to the question: not once.

newscoop


Joined: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2197

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 11:47

Were you not one of those in Yesiltepe who "paid" the local muktar for water connection?



Apologies for grammatical errors.



News.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 11:55

RE msg 2, newscoop: Yes, my neighbours and I paid 80 Sterling each (2-3 years ago) for an improved connection - on our request. The Yesiltepe Muhtar took care of our request. And your point is?

blackjock


Joined: 02/03/2009
Posts: 17

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 12:06

So, you paid presumably cash, with no receipt to someone, instead of paying into the Belediye funds, and in return you gained over others in the community.

Sounds like you are part of the problem.



Unlike yourself, my actually honest answer really is - not once.



Looks like newscoop's point is that you are too much in the thick of it to see in from the outside.



Apologies in advance for gramatical errors, written in English not Gaelic.



BJ

newscoop


Joined: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2197

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 12:13

Ah how the memory and Efes plays tricks!



I could have sworn friends in the area concerned weren't getting h20 at the time and the way around it was to press some notes into someones hand.



But as I say; obviously the old grey matter isn't working too well these days.



Apologies for the (deliberate) grammatical errors.



News.

Earlybird


Joined: 28/04/2009
Posts: 816

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 12:17

I don't know whether you read 'Cyprus Today' Dutch but Rasid Pertev in that newspaper said that because of his personal experience of corruption and bribery he resigned from the last government to set up his own party. Perhaps even his word is not good enough for you, I doubt that any facts that board members give you will alter your opinions based on your personal experience. I know we were asked to pay £250 to accelerate our permission to purchase (by a well known solicitor).

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 12:17

RE msg 4, blackjock: (...) So, you paid presumably cash, with no receipt to someone, instead of paying into the Belediye funds, (...)



=> At the time the Yesiltepe Muhtar was supervising the waterworks and not the Alsancak Belediye. So we paid him 80 Sterling and my neighbours and I got an official receipt.



RE msg 4, blackjock: (...) and in return you gained over others in the community. Sounds like you are part of the problem. (...)



=> For someone located in Jakarta (your profile) your care for our Yesiltepe/Alsancak community is remarkable. For your information: we got the water we were entitled to, but from a different direction.

newscoop


Joined: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2197

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 12:23

Bloody hell this memory of mine!



which muktar from the Alsancak/Malataya/Yesiltepe area was it who spent some time in the pokey for allegedly trousering allegedly illegal payments.



It's on the tip of ones tongue.



Apologies for grammatical errors.



News.

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 12:38

Could you all please look at a new "topic" by "Checkmate"........















Is that an encouragement for "corruption" or what???????????????????????

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 12:43

RE msg 8, newscoop: (...) Bloody hell this memory of mine! (...) Alsancak/Malataya/Yesiltepe area (...)



=> Your memory? Your problem is being a gossipmonger.



=> Malatya and Yesiltepe have a (different) muhtar (not muktar). Alsancak has a mayor. Do you accuse all three of them "spending some time"? Would you dare to repeat it in their offices? I think not, "Ray", who doesn't even dare to tell us who he is in his profile.

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 12:59

Hans



I understand the point you are making.



We have some very good English friends who live in Yesiltepe and have done so for the last 8 years of so. They paid various sums to the Muhtar along with other ex-pats for water and streetlighting. The police were involved in a subsequent investigation although no charges were ever brought.

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 13:08

Here is a very good example of corruption and not an example of hearsay.



A very good friend of mine was involved in the importation of beer from another EU member state. To get the beer in he had to get the health certificate and get it translated from English to Turkish and stamped verified at the Turkish embassy in the originating country then it had to be stamped by the TRNC office in Turkey, then the paperwork stamped once again at customs in the TRNC, the Health Ministry and then again at the Turkish Embassy in Lefkosa. This process started before the produce had left the originating country and was still on going almost 4 weeks after it was in Famagusta docks. The paperwork was then submitted to the Ministry of Health whom after a few days said they had no record of ever receiving the paperwork. As he had taken copies of them he went to the office and the "member of staff" we shall call him told him that he had never seen any paperwork for his consignements........cont

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 13:16

RE msg 13, Stubs: (...) They paid various sums to the Muhtar along with other ex-pats for water and streetlighting. (...)



=> Water: Until Alsancak took over we paid for water to the Yesiltepe muhtar also - not corruption, I think. Water is never free in TRNC as far as I know (in Holland we pay tax to get rid of fresh water... ).



=> Street lighting: When my house was built we had to pay for a pole and the connection cables from the pole to the meter. At the same time "they" (KibTek?) added a lamp to "my" pole. A kind of corruption - or the system of the country?

TimothyCadman


Joined: 13/12/2007
Posts: 1040

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 13:17

First hand knowledge of corruption......



I paid the Customs man £50 not to charge me tax on several items that he wanted to. My total tax bill came to 20TL for the TV we bought in, instead of the 1000TL he wanted to charge us for Power Tools, that he said were new even though I knew they weren't, I was bringing in. It was his idea to pay him to forget he had seen them.

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 13:19

When my friend showed him the copies he had made, with this persons signature and stamp he snarled and said there was a problem with the expiry date of the beer and that beer coming into Cyprus had to have a best before of no less than 12 months when it arrived in Cyprus (which is impossible, go check the date on the next bottle of beer you buy). My friend then went to a local supermarket and bought a bottle of budweiser which had been imported which shows the date it was produced and the best before date which is only 9 months. Armed with this, his lawyer and his business partner they went back around to the Ministry of Health the "member of staff" which he was told to take this beer out and cleared it but he would allow no more beer to come into Cyprus from him.



A couple days later a Turkish Cypriot approached the company where the beer was coming from and offered to take it into Cyprus without any problems. Coincidence???????

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 13:24

Hans



My friends continued to pay the Muhtar even after it changed to Alsancak. It was only through a TC friend that they were advised it had changed and they had to pay to Alsancak. They paid the muhtar long after it was supposed to be changed to Alsancak. Strange when they started paying Alsancak it was substantially less than the amount they were paying the muhtar.



If you ask around you will find out that the police were involved in it

blackjock


Joined: 02/03/2009
Posts: 17

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 13:32

Bit off topic, but:

hoagy msg 11 (and so others get the drift of the message) fine thanks, and at least it was a good looking sheep!!

and I didn't have to pay, at least sheep are honest these days!!

BJ

Earlybird


Joined: 28/04/2009
Posts: 816

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 13:40

Hoagy, re msg 12.......that was 6 years ago!



Dutch, speechless about Rasid Pertev?? (msg 6)

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 16:59

RE msg 21, Earlybird: (...) I don't know whether you read 'Cyprus Today' Dutch but Rasid Pertev in that newspaper said that because of his personal experience of corruption and bribery he resigned from the last government to set up his own party. (...)



=> Rasid Pertev: I'm afraid he's just another opportunist - who needed two or more years to find out that the government he was working for was corrupt. Not many Cypriot Turks gave him the slightest benefit of the doubt during the last elections.



RE msg 21, Earlybird: (...) Perhaps even his word is not good enough for you, I doubt that any facts that board members give you will alter your opinions based on your personal experience. (...)



=> Did you really need this remark to make your point?



RE msg 21, Earlybird: (...) I know we were asked to pay £250 to accelerate our permission to purchase (by a well known solicitor). (...)



=> Did you do it?! Or did you complain about this lawyer (there are NO solicitors in TRNC)?

Earlybird


Joined: 28/04/2009
Posts: 816

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 17:30

Are you saying that Rasid Pertev was not telling the truth?



No, we certainly did not pay for an acceleration and how could we complain when he didn't write it down, so what proof did we have.....our word against his and you think we would have been believed?!

Earlybird


Joined: 28/04/2009
Posts: 816

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 17:33

As for my "remark", it appears as it has not happened to you, then you are not prepared to believe it happens to anyone else.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 17:36

RE msg 23, Earlybird: (...) Are you saying that Rasid Pertev was not telling the truth? (...)



=> I don't know. Do you?



I found his decision to become a new party-politician rather suspicious when I looked at his timing, background and position in the government. Were the reasons for his decision true or not - I don't know. Do you?



What more can we say with certainty about Mr. Pertev?

Earlybird


Joined: 28/04/2009
Posts: 816

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 17:48

This seems a waste of time to continue a discussion concerning Rasid Pertev as I feel both you and I are in a far weaker position to know about corruption than he is. If you don't believe him, I doubt that you believe any of us on the board, after all none of us could be telling the truth ...do you know? By the way you might be right because unlike any other country in the world the TRNC is the only one where NO officials have been found guilty of corruption. Perhaps in this instance you are right, TRNC is corruption free!!

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 17:58

RE msg 26, Earlybird: (...) Perhaps in this instance you are right, TRNC is corruption free!! (...)



=> I didn't claim "the TRNC to be corruption free". May I remind you that my question in msg 1 was: "How many times in the past five years or so did *you* experience real corruption in TRNC? No gossip and no hearsay, please. Just facts."



I haven't read many reactions based on facts yet.

Earlybird


Joined: 28/04/2009
Posts: 816

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 18:12

I would be interested to know which ones you know as being based on facts because I had no witnesses and didn't prosecute and as I have already said there are NO documented cases of an official being found guilty of corruption, perhaps you are not hearing me. I too am not saying there is no corruption in the TRNC, I am saying that no one has ever been brought to justice. This sends out the signal that it is a waste of time pursuing incidents of corruption, for example in my case the solicitor asking for a bribe to accelerate my ptp. I think what you want is proven cases of corruption, ones where people have been found guilty in the courts. Do you see where I am going with this?



Good luck in your crusade to find the truth.

pinkchilli


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 689

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 18:33

The staff at a well-known harbour restaurant give me a 20% dicount for being a "local"....



Providing I give them the 20% as a tip.



I have this in writing, on the back of the restaurant's business card, with the waiters name on it.



Everyone's a winner, including the owner, as he has happy customers and staff.



The above-mentioned document may be inspected by giving 24 hours notice (in writing) at any Government building after 14:00 weekdays.



Real corruption in my eyes.



Oh, and my advocate asked for £500 to speed up my P2P. I said I'll pay you if you get it within 6 months. He agreed and nothing happened.

Cyprusraider


Joined: 08/04/2009
Posts: 99

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 18:41

ptp refused. £2,800 later Kocan issued within a week.

minertor



Joined: 14/02/2009
Posts: 1238

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 20:13

message 22, "there are NO solicitors in TRNC"

Don't know if that's correct Hans. I think a "solicitor" has to be a member on the bar in UK. My lawyer has offices in London so I assumed he was a solicitor, although his "shingle" in Girne says lawyer.



Tony