Aga Buyers Action Group have been invited to and will now be joining w

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
08/01/2010 17:03

Aga Buyers Action Group has, as advised by the British High Commission followed the legal route in North Cyprus as regards a solution to the crime that was committed upon them regarding the non deliverance of properties paid for. It has become more and more apparent as time goes on the there is no enforceable legal system in North Cyprus.



Therefore after gathering a huge amount of evidence and also exhausting every single avenue in their search for a solution Aga Buyers Action Group have been invited to and will now be joining with the USA in an action against Turkey & The Turkish Republic of North Cyprus.



Read More



http://latchfords.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!AED4FE7679CA3C33!2259.entry



Pat, Suz & Sandra

flightholiday


Joined: 19/07/2007
Posts: 3217

Message Posted:
08/01/2010 17:55

This is a personal comment and I do wholeheartedly understand the anguish the buyers at the AGA building site must be feeling (and feel lucky not to be in their position).



To me this http://latchfords.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!AED4FE7679CA3C33!2259.entry reads like Greek Cypriots against the TRNC.



I would guess although AGA Buyers have a lot of sympathy from all who know of their problems that if the Action Group sides with this general onslaught that they will lose the goodwill of the many who have bought property in the TRNC with difficulty or relative ease.



If I understand correctly the AGA Buyers problems are caused by the builder and contactor not the country although they might feel the country and its laws might have served them better.



Have a look at http://www.tsimpedeslaw.com/Cyprus.html to get an idea of what the law firm in the US thinks.

elkiton



Joined: 15/03/2009
Posts: 514

Message Posted:
08/01/2010 18:11

My view is that taking on Turkey is a complete mistake; she is far too big a player to be worried by problems between builders and ex pats, which to them will be seen as a local TRNC issue. Never a wise thing to poke a hornets nest with a stick and whilst I do understand their frustration and sympathise with them, this course of action seems not to be in their best interests as they stand to lose a potential friend.

TonyE

MarkVPiazza


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 530

Message Posted:
08/01/2010 18:25

What have they got to loose?, they've been messed about by everyone in the TRNC for long enough.

elkiton



Joined: 15/03/2009
Posts: 514

Message Posted:
08/01/2010 18:44

In a word? credibility.

TonyE

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
08/01/2010 18:46

You are right Mark, we have explored every avenue and whilst doing so unwittingly stumbled across many things that we have kept out of the public domain. We have given the TRNC and its legal system every single opportunity to put things right over the last 6 years and now we find that we have hit the usual brick wall and mountains of lies. Therefore this offer has been made to us, and we have absolutely nothing financial to loose. We have no intention of ever returning to Cyprus and judging from the mountains of emails received in the last hour, we have many wishing to join us.



We have been bad mouthed on so many times over the last 6 years it worries us not - but now we have had enough of small time protest and being ignred by North Cyprus.



Some time ago a TC Lawyer stated on GAK TV "These ladies will not go away" How right he was, we wrote our solution off sometime ago, so now in 2010 we will join up with the USA and assist them. We had enough of the non-promises and lies

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
08/01/2010 18:50

Tony



Credibility - doesn't pay the bills................

Jeannie


Joined: 04/08/2009
Posts: 3283

Message Posted:
08/01/2010 18:52

Message 7 - exactly!



I wish you every success.

elkiton



Joined: 15/03/2009
Posts: 514

Message Posted:
08/01/2010 19:22

Message 7, I know it well although at the moment I cannot discuss my case further here. I am not knocking your efforts, although sometimes I think the strident language does more harm than good..... What I am saying is that when one looks to take Turkey on, it's a bit like poking the sleeping lion with a stick. An evaluation of how important the AGAsaga is to them might reveal that it is not really of interest, being a "domestic" issue. And if plan B is ever adopted, and Turkey becomes the master, then memories can be long.

Tell me, what objective do you hope to achieve by gunning for them, and why?

Also if I may offer advice, and here must confess that I know nothing about your "offer", is there any possibility that you are being used and may end up worse off? Don't write this question off as irrelevant, I spent a good few years as a business troubleshooter before retiring, and looking at undercurrents and chessboards always stood me in good stead.

TonyE

MarkVPiazza


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 530

Message Posted:
08/01/2010 19:25

Tony



What good has "credibility" done them so far?



It is sad that it has come to this, but desperate times...

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
08/01/2010 19:31

TonyE



How can we be worse off.............we have nothing for our money and we are 99.9999999% not ever going to get anything for our money,



We will help the USA do whatever necessary to put a stop to the corruption that is allowing 1000's of people before us and anyone following what we have been through. We have no way of recuperating what we have lost both financially and mentally - at least we are being listened to - and BTW they made contact with us not us them !



We know what a sensitive issue this is with Turkey from our inpromptu protest at the Turkish Embassy in London - they met with us, took in our questions, promised answers and once again silence. Turkey and the TRNC have had every single opportunbity to assist us in our plight. We even followed their legal route to the end and a brick wall - why should others face the same fate ?

elkiton



Joined: 15/03/2009
Posts: 514

Message Posted:
08/01/2010 19:37

Sorry Mark, but I believe that when you lose creditability then you are on a downward slope to losing the game completely. This is something that in their sheer (understandable) frustration with finding somebody to fix their problem they may overlook. Also, in legal matters I am not sure that 6 years is long enough for a problem of this magnitude, especially in a land which time forgot and nobody loves, yet...... At the moment i don't believe that there is any sympathy with us buyers in the TRNC because of the Cyprus Problem which has to go away first, that is actually more important than (and I hate to say it) getting a fix for speculative buyers who lost out.

Now don't start poking pins in my eyes because of that last statement, rather, lets try to analyse where they sit on the greater stage.

TonyE

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
08/01/2010 19:44

Tony,



I would imagine that AGA have thought long and hard over all the issues of taking the matter to Turkey further.



"Turkey and the TRNC have had every single opportunbity to assist us in our plight. We even followed their legal route to the end and a brick wall - why should others face the same fate ?



Sometimes you have to have a bit of backbone and poke the lion with the stick.



I wish AGA, all the best.

exnavalperson


Joined: 22/07/2009
Posts: 224

Message Posted:
08/01/2010 19:44

Well done Aga buyers.



Take no notice of the two doubting Thomas's Flightholiday and Elkinton, they haven't lost their money and they are sitting pretty.



The notion that us expats should keep quiet and shut up about the way this country is run when the government could so easily put things right is now, for the Aga buyers a nonstarter.

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
08/01/2010 19:47

TonyE



everyone is entoitled to their own opinions and actions. If we thought that we would get anything back then we would continue our TC LEGAL QUEST, BUT THE EVIDENCE WE HOLD POINTS TO THE OPPOSITE - SO ONWARDS WE WILL GO AS WE SEE FIT FOR OUR OWN FAMILIES. AS WE SAID EARLIER - CREDIBILITY DOESN'T PAY THE BILLS AND NONE OF US ARE GETTING ANY YOUNGER. THERE HAVE BEEN TOO MANY DEATHS AMONGT AGA VICTIMS FOR US TO WAIT ANY LONGER. Whoops only just noticed CAPS on - and I am not typing that lot again lololol

elkiton



Joined: 15/03/2009
Posts: 514

Message Posted:
08/01/2010 20:04

Exnavalperson.... careful please before you start using phrases like ..."they haven't lost their money..sitting pretty...etc"....as you actually have no idea of my situation, my monetary status, or as a TRNC homeowner, the litigation I have been and am currently involved in.

So, I would venture to say that recently having been in front of a TRNC Judge, I have a great deal more knowledge of the property and legal situation than 99% of the posters you will find on this thread, and therefore my words may have some useful meaning.

The one thing I have learned in my dealings on this Island, is that there is always a way to if not win, then to break even, however it takes time and money to find it. The bigger the problem, the longer it takes and the Agasaga is a problem of enormous size,too big to find a workable solution easily. Perhaps they have not yet found the right "Sponsor"? Going down the wrong path and losing credibility may be a mortal blow to their cause.

TonyE

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
08/01/2010 20:10

TonyE



We are sure you are not aware of ABAG and their having been 'banned' from joining the United AGA Buyers, or any other TC Based group unless we agreed to close the blog or the website...we chose not to therefore we were shunned by the others. There are so many judgements and memorandums now on Amaranta it will never go anywhere - its only possibility in our opinion and that of numerous TC lawyers is that it will be liquidated and we can assure you the Brits who lost out will NOT be at the top of the list of creditors. Read the blog from Mid Dec 09 and you will see the latest happenings - they don't make pretty reading - and its all the TRUTH

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
08/01/2010 20:13

People that have been double/triple sold or those whose properties simply cannot be built do not stand a hope in hell of ANY recompense and when its mentioned to us that;- " what we went trough was simly a business deal that went wrong " or we were also told by a TC Lawyer " you bought a promise, nothing else a promise " means to us that if its business than we will take our legal business elsewhere where there is a glimmer (only a glimmer) of hope

elkiton



Joined: 15/03/2009
Posts: 514

Message Posted:
08/01/2010 20:49

Hi Again, I followed the Saga since the early days,I was nearly a buyer of a second home myself on the Amaranta site, but after having researched it, taken a builder up there to give me his opinion of the quality, decided that it was a high risk speculation in a poor location, and terminated my interest. I photographed it every trip, and put the photos up, until I started getting hate mail from buyers, who said that their "expert" engineer could not be wrong, and my expert did not know what he was talking about. Indeed I met many "buyers" at Oscars, who laughed at my plans, saying I was paying twice as much as they were, and so I was the one being "rooked".Whatever, it's water under the bridge.

I look at your website regularly,keep abreast of any developments and do wince sometimes when I read the tenor of the language. I have to confess that I once wrote in that style, but got it beaten out of me luckily in time to be promoted to something meaningful. Wish you luck though.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
08/01/2010 21:10

Most veterans of the TRNC and this board are familiar with the Amaranta valley saga.

It is a real traversty that such a crime can be allowed to go without any real retribution, compensation or justice. I feel deeply for all those that have beed struck by this abhorrent act of deception.



It is not suprising that the AGA group have resorted to join and support litigation being prepared by American legal eagles.

I fear for the end result, the cost, the time scale to judgment, the outcome and any benefit that may be achieved shoud victory be secured, enforcement of any judgment.

If the case is to proceed be prepared for a long and arduous battle. Be prepared for massive legal bills and be clear as to what the objective is.

I am sure most on this board whish you all the very best in your fight and hope that you can recover what is justifiablly yours.

Blackpoolfan


Joined: 03/12/2008
Posts: 1568

Message Posted:
08/01/2010 21:10

Good luck ABAG in your quest for justice, at least some people are prepared to stand up and fight..............

elkiton



Joined: 15/03/2009
Posts: 514

Message Posted:
09/01/2010 20:14

A question, how many of the posters here have actually gone to the Amaranta valley and looked at / been round to see the development for themselves as opposed to blindly hammering the keys of their keyboard to write sympathetic messages? How many have actually looked closely at the build quality etc and what was being sold for prices that were quite ridiculously low?

Having shelled out some quite considerable sums to have a property put right myself, it would amaze me if these properties, which when you use a telephoto lens look quite shaky, could ever be finished and made habitable without shelling out ridiculous amounts of money.And who is going to fork out this moolah may I ask? Certainly not the original buyers. I doubt that the Amaranta valley will ever be finished.

Sue Turkey? Christ that is like trying to make sense out of an impressionist painting.

TonyE

elkiton



Joined: 15/03/2009
Posts: 514

Message Posted:
09/01/2010 20:27

Right, now let's get serious all you people out there making noises of support for the ABAG legal action. Go read what is on the website and research the firms involved before making another posting.



http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2010/01/09/cypriot-contempt-for-property-laws/



The whole case is really a South Cypriot driven push to get the North of Cyprus back.

Try this quote for starters ".....As you now know, the TRNC is an illegal enterprise and not recognized by any civilized nation...."



Sorry Agabuyers AG you are being used to support that South in their propaganda war against the TRNC, and if you can't see it then you really are complete mugs. The South must be having a field day. I previously spoke about losing credibility and you I believe have just lost all credibility. If in your anger against the system you are trying to help the South bring the North down, then sorry to say, I hope you lose your case.

TonyE

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
09/01/2010 20:55

1. 'prices that were quite ridiculously low' - In 2004 £104,000 for a 3 bed villa is not ridiculously low



2. 'made habitable without shelling out ridiculous amounts of money' - two of the ABAG properties can never be built due to their current position (not where they were on the plan) and the other was built but double sold !



3. Sue Turkey? - The TRNC is an unrecognised state by the world - so cannot be sued, but the motherland can be and are already twitching from our summer protest



4. 'their propaganda war against the TRNC' - we have tried every avenue possible to gain a soluion and in your own words "I doubt that the Amaranta valley will ever be finished" - so what would you suggest our next move is Tony. We are open to suggestions, but we have waited 6 years and we are all financially and emotionally tired - c'mon TonyE whats your suggestion ?????

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
09/01/2010 21:00

5. " I believe have just lost all credibility " - this doesn't pay the bills or rid us of the emotional and financial stress we are suffering



6. One of us has lost our husband to this saga and the other 2 have husbands who are ill with chronic diseases



So TonyE we would be real interested to hear what your next move would be in our position...



And for the record the firm concerned does actually have TC's working within it ! We have no other choice but to take up the offer we have been given. It may not get us our money back, but it might make people think twice about a TC property purchase whilst there are no legal safeguards for foreign investors



But once again TonyE we ask you what would you do ?

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
09/01/2010 21:27

I personally don't care if help comes from Mars, after the death of my husband, I don't want any other human being to purchase from the greedy lunatic asylum that is the TRNC, and the sooner the world knows about their "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" antics the better for humanity.



Thanks

PAT

ABAG





X

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
09/01/2010 21:39

Like Tony and Tom I do sympathize with the girls and have always admired their determination to publicize their case and the injustices they faced. However, they lacked the required legal expertise. Indeed, the TRNC authorities do not really have the expertise to deal with such swindlers and find out where all the money has gone to. So there was not much the girls could do through the legal channels. Hence their only effective weapon has been bad publicity for TRNC.

Now they have decided to cooperate with a law firm in USA whose sole objective is propaganda against Turkey and TRNC. They do not really approve of any foreigners buying property in TRNC and they would like to punish such buyers as well. So I view this cooperation as extremely unwise and this law firm will try to use these innocent girls as much as possible against Turkey and TRNC and then damp them at the first opportunity. They have made a very big mistake and blew any chance of recovering anything, although it was a slim chance anyway.

What is worse, their evidence will only harm the other expat buyers who were lucky enough to have their kochans. Soon, they will realize that these lawyers are up to no good but I am afraid it will be too late and they will suffer even more. Sorry but to me its a wrong move.

ismet

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
09/01/2010 21:57

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but, we ask again



What would you do in our position - what would u do next ????? Death and financial instability faces us - so what would you do next ?



1. TRNC Legal system = we have followed it to it's end and for us its been no good. It doesn't enforce anything - there is no record whasoever of anyone ever getting a penny refunded

2. UK Admin = not interested as the TRNC is Unrecognised

3 EU = Not interested ditto above

4. TRNC Gov = make promises that they do not keep and have constantly lied to us



Over to you

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
09/01/2010 22:10

PS

My Reply to Elko



I have always respected you, and listened to what you say (far more than Tony E) you I feel try to help us Brits, but I will never forgive what your Government has done! and where help comes, and yes (It maybe a wolf in sheeps clothing) but now I will take it, you keep on trying to make your Government look good, my work will now will be to make sure no other husband of 41 years will die knowing that the TRNC couldn't have cared less, never tried to get rid of their rubbish, without It came from 3 housewives, done over by your Estate Agents, your lawyers, your legal system and yet again your government, still doing nothing!!



Pat

elkiton



Joined: 15/03/2009
Posts: 514

Message Posted:
09/01/2010 22:12

msg 24,25,26 Quite simply I don't have a solution for you.

However that does not mean I can't make observations on what you are doing, and reiterate that it is the most unwise path that you are treading. Not only will your alliance lose you all and any support from every owner, worker, resident, what have you in the TRNC, you will now find that you have an army of opposition that were previously behind you. I very much doubt that until I made my posting anyone actually realised that you were out to bring the TRNC, through Turkey, down.

It has to be said that whilst you are in one hell of a predicament, there are thousands of otherwise happy homeowners who are content with their lot, and will find your present course untenable.

Continue this anti-TRNC stance with your new bedfellows from the South and I for one will ask the moderators to ban you from the board and delete the threads.Someone from the TRNC Govt could take this as anti-national sedition and close the 44 forum !!!!

To

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
09/01/2010 22:23

1. We do not believe that we have ever said "out to bring the TRNC, through Turkey, down ", if so would you kindly point out the place that we made this statement



2. "I don't have a solution for you" - so you would like us to simply go away and do nothing ? Unless you can come up with a solution we cannot afford to sit and wait any longer - come up with a solution and we may reconsider - but until anyone can do that then what else do you suggest we do - sit on the sidelines and watch what has happened to us happen to others ?



3. "Continue this anti-TRNC stance with your new bedfellows from the South" - Since when was Washington DC in the south of Cyprus ?



4. "ask the moderators to ban you from the board " - Democracy reigns in your world does it TonyE ?



so again ball in your court what would you do ?

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
09/01/2010 22:25

Dear Tony,



They can ban me until the cows come come, couldn't care less, (although I always cared about the the TRNC) and most of the people there, sadly so did my late husband, many people have banned me sweetheart, makes no difference, if you count my postings on this board it will be on one hand, good luck with your litigation, you need it!!!!!! in that lawless country.







Pat

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
09/01/2010 22:42

I can totally understand the Aga Buyers A G decision on this. It's all very well telling them that it's the wrong thing to do but what is the alternative? Shut up, don't rock the boat for the 'I'm all right jacks? I don't find that a very helpful suggestion. It is said that they will 'lose support from every owner, worker, resident.. etc' What support have they shown so far?

What support have TRNC politicians or Ministers shown? What have the government(s) over the past 6 years done to even if only to prevent this happening again?



Then to go on and play the 'you are supporting the Greeks' card is shameful. As is the threat to have them banned from the forum. Petty but nasty.



I wish the ABAG members well.

elkiton



Joined: 15/03/2009
Posts: 514

Message Posted:
09/01/2010 22:42

Thank you Pat, I will let the forum know how my litigation turns out, one way or the other.In the meanwhile I wish you every success with getting restitution.

It is not a lawless country by the way, we who have won cases proved that, just a difficult and emerging one.



My private email has been pretty hot this evening with messages from people who would prefer not to cross swords with you on the forum, but who do think that you have just made a very serious mistake.



Please remember that many of us here although retired, have recent business / negotiation / litigation experience, and it is from this standpoint that we read what you are doing with concern, if not horror.



Don't discount our criticism as being opposition to you getting your problems solved....But if you can't see that you are about to used, taken for a ride, and then chewed up and spat out in small pieces by the most cunning of the TRNC's assailants, then in your frustration and anger you have lost your way.

Tony

LondonCypriot


Joined: 15/12/2008
Posts: 426

Message Posted:
09/01/2010 22:44

Did you manage to make a personal vist to Mehmet Ali Talat and express your concerns?

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
09/01/2010 22:45

This was taken from your link that you posted...



"As you now know, the TRNC is an illegal enterprise and not recognized by any civilized nation. The TRNC is required to respond to our lawsuit in February, 2010 after a failed attempt to delay the legal proceedings".



This being the case then surely even if someone from the TRNC responded to the suit the response would be ignored and not admisable as it would be coming from an illegal enteprise that is not recognised by any civilised nation, I take it the USA classes itself as a civilised nation.



I would tread lightly and look into any potential costs very carefully, I don't have the answers I honestly wish I did as you have all suffered enough but a class action in the US against a foreign countries govt is never going to work....

elkiton



Joined: 15/03/2009
Posts: 514

Message Posted:
09/01/2010 22:51

Hector, calm down please.



I am surprised that are not seeing that they are being used in the most shameful way? What is your take on the link I posted re the case? I assume you have read it, and do you not think that they are being used?



And as for "...supporting the Greek's case...", well tell me sir, is this not what they will be directly doing?

Or is there some other way to look at it that I have missed ?



There are times when I despair of this board, has everybody lost their senses? Support for suing Turkey? Where are you people coming from?



No disrespect intended but do you all live in some dream world apart from reality?



TonyE

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
09/01/2010 22:58

Did you manage to make a personal vist to Mehmet Ali Talat and express your concerns?



No, we didn't even get a reply to the email that was delivered to him via an extremly reliable source - so we know he got it. Thats how we are treated. We have emailed him over 1000 times and never ever got a reply. We have had no reply to the questions we delivered in Aug 09. We have had no communication whatsoever



Suz

ABAG

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
09/01/2010 23:02

Hector



you are right - not one person has come forward with what we should do next - why ? because we have exhausted every concievable route possible and still nothing. S



o c'mon we ask again - what do you want us to do next ?

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
09/01/2010 23:05

Simple enough question



What do we do next



1. No Property

2. Property Cant Be Built

3. Property double sold

4. Judgement that wont be enforced

5. If AGA Is liquidated there will be a queue of TC's before the British are considered



So what would you do next

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
09/01/2010 23:07

We have no alternative, and as things stand at the moment I would much rather be affiliated with the USA than with the TRNC , and as the Americans say in their letter in inverted bracket's " NO OTHER CIVILIZED NATION IN THE WORLD RECOGNIZES THE TURKISH REPUBLIC OF NORTHERN CYPRUS" They must change, Greed is not acceptable in any CIVILIZED SOCIETY,



how the TRNC comes to terms with their GREED is up to them, I'm not a political person, just a lady whose husband has died because of their GREED!



Pat

ABAG

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
09/01/2010 23:09

TheSaints



" look into any potential costs very carefully"



We have and there are none



Suz

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
09/01/2010 23:14

Both North & South appear to be on the same wavelength when it comes to business practices and property issues



http://www.internationalpropertyjournal.com/blog/2010/01/08/64-cyprus-property-market-collapses.html

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
09/01/2010 23:17

Whilst I understand the position of ABAG, I take note of the cautionary message being given as to the motives of this law firm and also what financial costs are they letting themselves if for?

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
09/01/2010 23:21

Absolutely Hector - in some ways the south is worse as its on a bigger scale.



But we have come to an end in our options and our monies..........thats it for the 3 of us financially and emotionally. Pat lost her husband to this debarcle and Sandra and I have husbands who are unwell. I also have to support 2 kids. We are all stll paying for somethoing we haven't got and are never going to get



We have tried our very hardest to get a solution - we have followed very piece of aidvice given to us by our UK Gov., by the TC Lawyers, but every Tom, Dick & Harry, but we have reached the end now - we have no where else to turn.......and those who ctiticize also have no advice for what we do next.......



We are more than prepared to listen to other avenues of attack, but there simply are not any left open to us, so when we get a glimmer of hope in a offer from the USA we would be silly not to explore it.



Suz

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
09/01/2010 23:23

"what financial costs are they letting themselves if for? "



There are none as we have none.......

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
09/01/2010 23:23

" take note of the cautionary message being given as to the motives of this law firm "



so do we but I refer to Msg 45



xxxxxx

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
09/01/2010 23:41

Suz



As you rightly say it would be silly not to explore but be extremely carefull, can you honestly see a Judgement being made in a Civil or Criminal court in the USA having any standing in another country where American law has no juristiction?

I think I would do a lot more investigative work about this law firm who and who they are currently representing and what thier motivation is and ultimate motives are and not by asking them for the answers.....

Cyprusquest


Joined: 09/12/2008
Posts: 428

Message Posted:
09/01/2010 23:47

A few idle thoughts on this problem:

1 The company you are using and their cause is Anti TRNC NOT Pro AGAbuyersAG.

2 Sadly the effect of this will be to give you even more grief.

3 You are liable to loose any support you have from Ex Pat owners in and out of the TRNC.

4 Your arguments are always against the Turkish Cypriots BUT you were rooked by a Brit!

5 In view of 1 & 4 you are probably joining the same side (hopefully not by intent)

6 Tom Tony Ismet London Mike even Hector are all advising you to steer clear of the sharks as they will not only loose you friends but will even worse make your cause look like a political joke.

7 If you look at the truth of the matter you made a poor choice in your builder and not in the TRNC.

8 You cant blame others for what you willingly did (no matter how much everyone else might think "there but for the grace of god go I").

9 You were all unlucky and we do feel for you but please do not bring us all down with you because of your pain.

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
09/01/2010 23:55

I couldnt agree more THESAINTS but in ABAGs usual style we have taken it upon us to make public what our intentions are, maybe in the hope that others may come up with another avenue we can follow - and as we can clearly see at the moment - no-one has any answers. Unless someone can come up with something new then we will have no choice - or we will find ourselves in the same position this time next year and so on.



We have met the Prime Min, Dep Prime Min. Treasury Min (prev gov) they all lied to us, we have requested on more than one occasion an audience with Talat - he cant even be bothered to reply. We have met many other officals of the TC regime - but no answers. They just treat us and our questions with contempt and basically we sure have had a gutful of that - threatening to become radical hasn't worked so maybe actually doing it might get a response, after all what have we to lose apart from credibility and as I said earlier - that doesnt clothe and feed our families



xxx

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
09/01/2010 23:59

So people what would you advise ABAG to do instead?

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 00:01

2 Sadly the effect of this will be to give you even more grief - Financially and emotionally HOW ?



3 You are liable to loose any support you have from Ex Pat owners in and out of the TRNC - What has anyone done so far for AGA Victims ?



4 Your arguments are always against the Turkish Cypriots BUT you were rooked by a Brit! - No AGA is a TC reg. Comp With 2 TC Directors as well as a Brit



6 Tom Tony Ismet London Mike even Hector are all advising you to steer clear of the sharks as they will not only loose you friends but will even worse make your cause look like a political joke - So Again What do we do next ?



7 If you look at the truth of the matter you made a poor choice in your builder and not in the TRNC - but all the same a TRNC Registered company, recommended by a TRNC Registered Estate Agent and advised by TRNC Registered Lawyers

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 00:02

8 You cant blame others for what you willingly did (no matter how much everyone else might think "there but for the grace of god go I"). - we are not, but no-one is coming up with any other ideas, or should we just walk away having lost £150,000 between us ?



9 You were all unlucky and we do feel for you but please do not bring us all down with you because of your pain - So what should we do next ?

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 00:03

Hector



Thats exactly what we are asking



WHAT SHOULD WE DO NEXT THEN ??????????



Suz, Pat & Sandra

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 00:06

Since your asking Hector what would you do??

Cyprusquest


Joined: 09/12/2008
Posts: 428

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 00:40

S P & S

You did not address my point 1.



May I point out that you say you lost £150,000 between you. Have you looked at what many many people have lost in the UK, US etc starting business's suffering bad insurers losing money in places like BCCI etc - it is a lot of money what were you going to live on when you moved to Amaranta? Are you living as the TRNC poor do or as the British poor do?



Please do not wave the flag of "what should we do next" when you have now blatantly made a poor choice twice. Do not blame the TRNC and do not blame the country because it registered the companies, that is petty.



Why not blame the British FCO for not tying your hands and letting you export your money. You are advised by the FCO -Purchasing Property -You are advised to proceed with caution and to seek qualified legal advice from a source that is independent from anyone else involved in the transaction, particularly the seller, before purchasing property anywhere in Cyprus.



Cont...

Cyprusquest


Joined: 09/12/2008
Posts: 428

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 00:44

continuation from 56



See the UK government web site for the advice which has not changed much in 10 years:



http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and-living-abroad/travel-advice-by-country/europe/cyprus



There is 8 paragraphs of advice that you might have done well to listen to.



I am starting to lose sympathy for your plight when you obviously have no care of the effect you will have on others. I am sure others will be feeling the same way.

luem1


Joined: 29/07/2009
Posts: 109

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 02:00

Let's face it - the Aga buyers were seduced by a wonderful scam. The old adage "If it looks too good to be true, then it probably is" springs to mind.

As TonyE says, and as I found out, it didn't take a lot of detective work to find out about Gary Robb and the standard of the construction. Caveat emptor!!

If this had happened in the UK, would they expect the UK Government to bail them out? No chance, and rightly so.

I agree with TonyE, Elko and Cypruquest, Aga buyers are going down the wrong route, andseemingly only want to spoil it for others.

birdyblaster


Joined: 19/10/2009
Posts: 131

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 06:40

At A Crossroads.Below is a quick list of some significant decisions that people are met with. What is decided ultimately impacts their lives for many years that follow.

•Career Options

•Choosing A Vocation

•Education

•Marriage / Divorce



•House buying/land purchase



•Pregnancy / Parenthood

•Relocating

•Retirement Planning

•Health Care Alternatives.

Collecting Information

Fact gathering and seeking advice is recommended. Advice from a good friend or counselor can be helpful in these circumstances. Sometimes we are too emotionally connected to the situation to see clearly all the details involved in making a wise decision. Whereas someone detached from the drama is likely to be able to show more objectivity. Although we may wish that someone else would step in to make tough decisions for us, the final decision remains ours to make.

birdyblaster


Joined: 19/10/2009
Posts: 131

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 06:42

continued.



Fears of Making Bad Decisions

Over the years I have counseled many clients about decisions they are faced with. Most often they have been either relationship or job related. Normally the problem I feel they are facing is not in making the decision itself, but more trying to move past the fear of making a wrong choice. I will have them imagine the best and the worst outcomes, scripting the different scenarios for each situation to help weigh out the advantages/disadvantages. I also emphasize that there truly are no wrong choices, only different paths.

birdyblaster


Joined: 19/10/2009
Posts: 131

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 06:42

continued.

Alternate Choices

During a period of time when I felt very stuck and could not decide between decision A or decision B, a good friend of mine pointed out to me that by doing nothing (remaining stuck) I had made decision C. Decisions aren't always based on either this or that options, look for door number 3, or door number 4. Stay alert for side exits or hidden entry ways. Our choices are seldom black or white, alternative pathways can be found in the gray areas.

birdyblaster


Joined: 19/10/2009
Posts: 131

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 06:43

coninued.

There Are No Wrong Choices

We can't know what all the future holds for us. There are no guarantees. As much as I have struggled with making decisions in my life I am very happy that I have had so many choices offered to me. Yes, I've made some poor choices, but along with those choices came challenges and opportunities that I would not have experienced otherwise. For this reason I do not believe there are wrong or right choices. Whatever decisions we make, they will ultimately thrust us into life situations (both positive and negative). As the opportunities being gifted to us unfold in our lifes we will grow our spirits. And in my humble opinion, spiritual growth was likely the grander plan anyhow.

birdyblaster


Joined: 19/10/2009
Posts: 131

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 06:48

Anyone can learn how to follow their intuitions, even an EGG HEAD like me.



as above.if it sounds to good to be true.maybe it is.dont let that greed factor come into play as it always does with so many people.



i do sympathise with all.



The Goverment are not wholly responcible



If i buy a ice cream and it melts.is it the ice cream mans fault!

rcroton


Joined: 05/06/2008
Posts: 192

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 07:18

I have to agree with Elko and elkiton. One thing i dont like the ladies languae at times it will do them no good in the long run, in their actions it will also create further problems fo many more expat buyers and finally if you didnt really have the money to loose in the first place why risk everything, it sounds as this is the case if partners are falling ill. Let is go and see what hapens over the years but expect nothing. I do have sympathy for you and it must be frustrating for sure.

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 10:02

wise words birdy. i do feel for thier plight. i also can see both sides in this argument debate

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 10:53

Let's not forget that it's not only ABAG who has been affected by the lack, or need of implementation of a common, decent, ethical and enforceable law system.



Whatever the 'caveats', I still empathise and sympathise with ABAG sufferers.



Those who have not suffered from it haven't a clue as to the devastating toll this takes on a person - financially, emotionally and physically.



The 'cover up' over this Amaranta scam is not only utterly shameful for TRNC, but coupled with the bad publicity of countless other horror stories, both concerning property and foreigners' human rights violations,

then economic recovery is about as likely as a solution to the 'Cyprus Problem'.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 11:10

I'm afraid that, like the ABAG members, I have the same philosophy - don't get angry, get even. It is against my nature and nurture to lose. I thank my mother for that, she battled with a crippling disease for 30 years and yet managed to run businesses at the same time. She battled until her last dying breath. I'm afraid my family comes first and the rest is secondary. This means that I don't agree that "king and country" take precedence over my family and that includes the current TRNC GOVERNMENT (not the TRNC) IF they don't support my family with the justice I expect. Mind you, so far the current TRNC government has not had enough time to prove they are serious about solving these property problem.

ABAG aren't seriously asking you what else they should do, they already know the step they have taken is the only one left except, of course, to give up and as Winston Churchill said in his speech to Harvard students, reputedly the only words he said - "never, never, never, never give up

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 11:14

Reply to message 34 Tony E



Believe me it is a Lawless Country, don't worry about crossing swords with me Tony I'm honest!! but couldn't resist your "Made a Mistake""Your Concern", and "Feeling Horror" Post



I made a whopping "Mistake" when I purchased a property in the TRNC, my "Concern" has been keeping focused on trying to understand why the TRNC allowed a known criminal (believe me they knew) to work within it's small community to steal millions of pounds from honest unsuspecting citizens, and my "Horror" when I understood they realized what they had done, but like their Country decided they wouldn't recognize it, so really don't care where help comes from, "No Alternative" Tony I want back what my husband worked for, every damn penny, and I'm doing what the British Government tells me to do and "Don't Pay any Lawyer within the TRNC" another penny!! Tony you pay them as much as you want for your "Litigation" the trouble is I want my Litigation open to world scrutiny now, j

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 11:43

Cyprusquest



1 The company you are using and their cause is Anti TRNC NOT Pro AGAbuyersAG.



Its a huge case – we don’t expect anyone to be solely pro ABAG, but as far as we have been led to believe this action is designed to clean up property scams across the whole island not just the North. Until someone comes up with another route what do you expect us to do ?



"It is a lot of money what were you going to live on when you moved to Amaranta? Are you living as the TRNC poor do or as the British poor do?"



In 2004 when we signed up we had the money to pay for it all - IT WAS 6 years ago. How we were financially stable at that time is really not a public matter. The build was supposed to be completed in 2005, When it went wrong what you have to remember is that we are still paying for a £50,000 mortgage on something we do not have !!!!!!!!! For the best PART OF THE LAST 6 YEARS WE HAVE BEEN PAYING IN EXCESS OF £450 PCM for something we do not have. That equates to a total of

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 11:43

cont....



The whole idea – which although no-ones business but our own, I will make public, was to buy our villa – not cheap in 2004 at £104,000, move to the TRNC in the summer of 2006. The rent from the house in the UK and our other income at the time would easily cover the mortgage with monies to spare to allow us to live quite comfortably.



“You are advised to proceed with caution and to seek qualified legal advice”

Not in 2004 you were not. The original list of lawyers on the FCO site was removed due to...............well make your own mind up......but some of those removed had been recommended to AGA Victims. The advice on the website was rewritten 18 months ago; In 2003/04 there was no clarity whatsoever



“obviously have no care of the effect you will have on others” – we ask again what would you do ?

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 11:45

“It didn't take a lot of detective work to find out about Gary Robb and the standard of the construction”



luem1



Gary Robb was hidden from my family. His name appears no where on our contract – just that of AGA DEVELOPMENT. We were not told by Unwins of Robb’s existence at the time and were led to believe that the owner of the company was a well know reputable TC. We were shown a show house which was pristine in 2004. We didn’t know who Robb was until May 2005, when our lawyer told us. So what were we to do then, we had already paid a sizeable amount and were unable to pull out ! In 2003/04 not everyone had the internet as they do now – this family was one that wasn’t on the internet at home till the close of 2004

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 11:46

Luem1



"If it looks too good to be true, then it probably is” – what too good to be true in a small 3 bed villa costing £104,000 ?

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 11:47

whoops continuation of msg 68



just so no-on else ever has to follow in my footsteps!



Pat

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 11:52

Cont of mSG 69



That equates to a total of around £35k in payments alone. In 2004 my husband was a fit, healthy man then in late 2006 my husband developed an illness of the nervous system partly or wholly (according to his consultant) attributed to the stress caused by this debacle and is now 70. He cannot work any longer.

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 11:54

Mal



give up and as Winston Churchill said in his speech to Harvard students, reputedly the only words he said - "never, never, never, never give up



Thanks Mal, perhaps this will kick those in the know in the TRNC up the ar*e and they may even make contact - we think not....



xxxxx

SSP

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 12:07

so to sum up all of the above



If any one else can come up with a feasible suggestion as to which way we should now proceed - we'd be interested to hear it



ABAG

sporty


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 685

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 12:12

i've been reading this thread as its been unfolding,i'm not trying to take the moral highground here either,you are perfectly entitled to take whatever course of action to try to get your money back whether others like it or not,i understand that,but what i'm failing to understand is if Amaranta was being built on exchange(gc)land,i assume it is?Is that not the very thing that this law firm is trying to sue Turkey and Trnc for?Allowing land to be built on and sold on etc etc?This would then imply that you are being enticed into a situation where you could become a part of the problem and could end up being sued by them or others in the same way the Orams are?Surely your attempt at purchasing, amounts to the same thing?I feel you will be used,lets face it the press in the South will love this one.Losing money and making an unfortunate decision is not nice,believe me ive bought a few pups elsewhere in my time and lost out too,however,i have to say i think youve made a mistake doing this.

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 12:20

We are led to believe that the USA are suing Turkey for the wronggful use of arms supplied in the early 70's. Arms that have been used to displace persons (Cypriots greek & Turk) for commercial gain

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 12:24

whoops pressed wrong button again



and property amongst other issues are riding on the back of this action

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 12:26

could end up being sued by them or others in the same way the Orams are



we have no property or land to be sued for

we are all pre 2006 Cyprus Property law



so what would you do next ?

sporty


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 685

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 12:27

In that case,why are getting yourselves involved with something that doesnt even cover the same subject as your losses?I understand you feel hurt and frustrated by events but this is not the way forward imho,anyway whatever you decide i wish you well.x

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 12:27

sporty, you are partially right and as you say "the press in the South will love this one." The only problem with your argument is that the ABAG members own nothing (they have no deeds) and therefore have nothing to lose from GCs. It's the publicity that this brings that I believe is ABAG's aim. For them it's a don't buy warning for prospective British buyers because if the GCs don't get your children's inheritance (to misquote a GC on Dragon's Den) the TCs may.

sporty


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 685

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 12:43

mesg,80 What would i do next?Ok then,after potentially looking at all available avenues(which it seems you have) i would shrug my shoulders,say it was a wrong decision on my part(perhaps)and learn to live with it,theres always somebody worse off than you,what about the 2 chaps that lost their lives yesterday falling into a frozen lake?what about the guy yesterday that was stabbed to death by 2 muggers that he pursued after they grabbed a womans handbag?Its not what happens to you in life its how you react to it,my sisters son was murdered 4 yrs ago by his best friend??17yrs old!Like i said,its not fair sometimes and sometimes we get some really s**t things thrown our way,but if your asking what i'd do next,i say i'd regroup,move on with what i have left with my life and try not to let it get me down,thats what i would do.

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 12:47

Sporty



The TC government froze the AGA Acounts in late 2005. We have an email which we were copied into by mistake between to very officious people revealing that funds from the Frozen AGA Account were paid into the private accounts of the civil servants who worked for the then Housing Minister - THIS WAS OUR MONEY - THEY TRIEDF TO HIDE IT - WHY !!!!!!!!! (the email is on the blog around Feb 08 I Think) That is why we want answers from the government and we after years and years are simply not getting them ! We have tried every single avenue but got no where



Suz

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 12:50

Rely to 83



NO WAY JOSE - WHILST WE LIVE AND BREATHE WE WILL FIGHT TO GET BACK WHAT IS RIGHTFULLY OURS - WALK AWAY ARE YOU MAD !!!!



You may be able to afford to do so, but we cant...........especially when we know that there is still corruption occurring

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 12:58

Sporty, you must be a rich person, plus very easy going, to be able to throw away £100k+ like that and as you say shrug your shoulders and take the loss. You seem to have the attitude of someone into property as a business whereas some people have exchanged homes in the UK for homes here. One couple at least, having lost everything here, were deported by the last TRNC government for being penniless.

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 13:05

Below is a link to the blog where we highlight just one or the many examples of eveidence that we hold that points to out and out corruption



http://latchfords.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!AED4FE7679CA3C33!336.entry



would you seriously walk away knowing about this and other examples of high level corruption. We have asked the TC Gov to meet and discuss, they won't so we have no choice to go with someone who is prepared to listen to us and what is happening within North Cyprus. We have given them every opportunity over the past few years - they made their choices as far as we can see, but there is time for them to come to us.....but they won't, or they would have done by now

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 13:07

birdblaster, to use your analogy, if you pay for an ice cream and you don't get an ice cream it is the ice cream salesperson's fault. If the ice cream salesperson will not honour the contract and the government who licensed the salesperson cannot get them to honour the contract then it is the government's fault for not making the salesperson display a sign saying "the government is currently operating a system whereby you may have to pay for the ice cream before you receive it and subsequently you may never receive an ice cream despite having paid for it." Where does the responsibility for this lie in the TRNC? In the USA, for example, it lies at the President's desk.

Cyprusquest


Joined: 09/12/2008
Posts: 428

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 13:15

Malcom - 67 - what benefit? I assume somwhere along the line you have been very hurt to have lost the human value of kindness to others with the prespective that you take of getting "even" at anyone else's expense. I am sure that you don't want the AGA buyers problem to hurt the many people who have bought in the TRNC but this action may well do so.



Athan T. Tsimpedes is licensed in the District of Columbia and the states of NJ and MD - quoted from his biography on his law firms site



"ABAG have been invited to and will now be joining with the USA in an action against Turkey & The TRNC" is not correct this is a class action within the USA not the USA taking on Turkey and North Cyprus.



There are a lot of other probably minor points - my great sorrow is that the ladies cant see that they are being used and to paraphrase others - probably badly used at their expense.



I would say one positive thing about Tsimpedes he is very, very good at letting the world know he exists!

sporty


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 685

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 13:18

I certainly wouldnt say i was rich in monetary terms mal,but i have found out that over the years when emotions run high on events that happen from time to time it can cloud your rational thinking taking you down avenues that can lead to a worse position whether that be in monetary terms or just quality of life,sometimes the person who has done the wrong sleeps soundly at night whilst the person who has been on the recieving end spends all their days and nights seeking revenge,being eaten up from the inside and cannot move on,hell or high water!Give me quality of life any day my friend.It may be easy to say its only money,but at the end of the day money is just a tool,yes its important and yes its better if you have some,but its not the end of the world if you dont have it!!The lady asked me "what would i do?I have answered this. I wish them luck in their plight but its not the path i would take personally.

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 13:19

So what wopuld you do in our position the Cyprusquest - its a simple question

Cyprusquest


Joined: 09/12/2008
Posts: 428

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 13:25

91 I'm sorry I have no answer and you do have my sympathy in your plight but I still do not feel this is a wise move for you and many others might well be adversley affected.



I feel that you are being used to your own disadvantage in this and badly so.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 13:39

sporty, some people fight others don't.

Cyprusquest, getting even only involves those who have done you wrong and so has nothing to do with losing human kindness towards the rest of humanity, or even the person who has done you wrong. Getting even also suggests restoring balance and not pushing people down. It's not about getting emotional, i.e. don't get angry or get hurt, it's about expecting respect for yourself and others.

In my own battle with my neighbour in north Cyprus, we both got even, he got some land and I got some land, and in the end we both ended with a respect for each other which we did not have at the start. We both saw that we were fighting for our families and not for a return on our investment. This is the Middle East!!!

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 14:43

I am not surprised that there is strong opposition to the avenue that ABAG have chosen to take. Most that purchased in the TRNC want to see security, stability and a growing economy that improves the quality of life for all its citizens. Publicity like this contributes to its downfall.



However we need to put this into perspective. ABAG are not alone in having paid for property they will never take ownership of. The TRNC has unfortunately shot itself in the foot by gaining a reputation for allowing properties to be re-mortgaged by the developer, shoddy workmanship, illegal building by the flouting of building regulations and planning laws and perhaps the most common occurrence starting but not completing properties. As if this is not enough people are then subjected to an incompetent legal system which in the majority of cases fails to address the issues and cannot enforce judgments.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 14:43

As a result the property market is on its knees. What this thread shows is how easy it is for the victims (that would be the ABAG members who have lost their life savings and suffered undue amounts of frustration and stress) suddenly become the guilty party. It is not a crime to be naive, nor is it a crime to make mistakes and to trust others and believe what they are saying. However it is a crime to break so called legally binding contracts, double sell property and without doubt commit property fraud.



The blame lays with the Government for permitting this to happen and the perpetrators of the scam, the developers and the solicitors. ABAG are merely victims in this rotten scenario.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 14:45

From my perspective the TRNC powers have shot themselves in the foot and it is their own apathy and inability to do what is right and proper that has brought down the property investment market and will continue to do so. They are the ones that will feed into the propaganda machine of the South. They are the ones that are giving the South all the ammunition they need to prove (not show) that it is not safe to buy in the TRNC and that there is corruption and that the legal system is not fit for purpose and offers no protection.

It was inevitable that when purchasers had exhausted the legal system within the TRNC, they would start to look for support elsewhere.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 14:46

Looking at the problems through a North v South political viewpoint will not be part of the equation for ABAG. They simply want justice and fair legal representation. The TRNC have the power to act but chose not to do so. They alone will be responsible for the media attention and slump in property investment. They alone must realise that such publicity will do nothing to encourage other countries to drop the embargoes and isolation.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 14:47

I can understand that forum members are concerned about the publicity that the action taken by ABAG will impact on their own investments and generate more ill feeling. But to do NOTHING is to allow the present situation to continue. This is no longer acceptable, the situation has continued for far too long.



Good luck ABAG.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 14:56

Bradus, excellent arguments! Those who argue against ABAG's desperate action often do so out of self-interest. It is often their own inaction over the years, for example not supporting attempts to stand up against the previous government allowing title deeds to take several years to be issued, which have contributed to the current situation. I'm alright Jack!

Cyprusquest


Joined: 09/12/2008
Posts: 428

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 15:20

93 -99. The argument was with the devloper not with the country. If you visit any country and do anything there you are bound by the ways of life, the local accepted morality and the local legal system.



These arguments seem to flaunt them if it was the US, South Africa, China not a small part of a small Mediteranean (not Middle Eastern) country / island you would respect it more.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 15:31

Cyprusquest,



Of course the argument is with the developer but surely you agree that every civilised country has a legal system to protect their citizens and make sure law is upheld? The TRNC has laws. Why is it not implementing them? Developers are allowed to be openly fraudulent because they know there is little legal redress for the victim. Wouldn't an effective government act to stop this behaviour.



My point is that the TRNC is failing to do this so contributes to the existing problem and must take some responsibility for the mess its in.

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 15:31

" the local accepted morality " look at



http://latchfords.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!AED4FE7679CA3C33!336.entry



they have no morals



" the local legal system " - we have and proved beyond all reasonable doubt - there isn't an enforcable one for 99.9999999999 of the victims, especially Foreign Investors

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 15:37

cyprusquest, you are right but what you are saying is do not buy here as the government can't stop you from being ripped off by developers. That's what ABAG are doing, they are telling the world that the local laws don't protect you. They argued with the developer but he's gone and anyone buying here risks the same happening to them and the government will be unable to step in and it's all because you pay up front before getting legal title deeds and that's down to the previous government. The current government recognises this and is promising that it MAY change this.

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 15:55

Aga Development consists/ed of 5 Directors and 2 shareholders



DIRECTORS

KUTSEL TOKATLIOGLU

MERT GUCLU

GARY ROBB

CAFER CURCAFER

TAHIR SOYCAN



SHAREHOLDERS

AKAN KURSAT (son of Lawyer Talat Kursat - removed from BHC Lawyer list)

GARY ROBB



The company papers can be seen here:-



http://cid-aed4fe7679ca3c33.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.res/aed4fe7679ca3c33!1959?ct=photos

elkiton



Joined: 15/03/2009
Posts: 514

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 16:08

Hi again, decided to take a break and see who posted what.

When I bought in Cyprus, I researched the "state" of the Island for a year or so prior to making my decision. My conclusion? It was a very high risk investment, speculation almost, and so I knew exactly what I was getting into. I took on this purchase knowing that I would get no help from the UK should problems occur, they did and I am still sorting the legacy of my own making. Repeat...of my own making. So I regard all buyers here as "carpetbaggers" like me, we took the risk and some of us came unstuck.Live with that statement please.

I for one would still advise people to buy, the North will become a "wow" place in my lifetime, but like the trading houses say, don't put up what you can't afford to lose.

In joining with the South, the AGA buyers' emotions have led them into drinking from a poisoned chalice, and like children who have lost their sweets they want to spoil it for everybody already here. Selfish or what?

Tony

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 16:14

Over the last few years we have given evidence against the TC's involved. We met with the Chief Of Police - Mrs P Gueler, We have been to the police station in Girne and given a statement, we have hand delivered all our papers to Marians PCO when it was open, we have been to court so many times (according to the lawyers) it amazing. Our last court visit was supposedly 21st December......We were told there may be a problem as we hadn't paid stamp duty !!!! Stamp duty on WHAT !!!!!!! FRESH AIR !!!!!! So inline with the Local Laws we pledged in a legal statement stamped by the TRNC London Office to pay any outstanding duties as and when our solution was enforced. But we ask duties on what - we have nothing to pay duties on !!!!!!!!!

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 16:15

Also last year an AGA Buyer went to court and got a judgement - he also hadn’t paid any duties as his property couldn’t be built - so that surely set a precedent and we have even taken time to go to London to have a legal paper witnessed and stamped by the officialdom within to show our good faith and intergrity !!!

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 16:16

so TonyE what do you suggest we do next ?

mamachina


Joined: 22/11/2008
Posts: 730

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 16:24

Like the previous poster we decided it was worth the risk - we could (just about) walk away from our puchase if things went pear shaped - in the meantime we can enjoy the weather, the place, the people and all things that make us like it here. It was a risk we took - all the warnings are there for anyone to read if they want to. We will "cry" if we have to, but it would be OUR FAULT - we read the warnings and still did what WE wanted to. Surely this is the same with the Aga buyers? Some of us had bad builders, some didnt, some of us have finishd houses, some dont, some have kocans, some dont. But to get an outsider involved seems the peak of stupidity and shooting themselves in the foot.

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 16:29

When did you buy Mamachine - 2003 ?, no there were NO warning signs at that time especially if you didnt have internet access



So what do you suggest we do next mamchina becasue we will not be walking away - perhaps you may have better idea - we are open to all suggestions?

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 16:34

Exactly how can they be shooting themselves in the foot? What have they got to lose? The legal team are not charging fees! Perhaps the only thing to come from this litigation is a warning to all considering purchase in the TRNC. If this had happened to me I too would want to warn people what could happen. Surely this helps people considering purchasing in the TRNC make an INFORMED choice?



Surely the peak of stupidity is to buy knowing that you will never own your property?

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 16:38

It appears that many are quick to criticise, that is their opinion and we accept that with no problem. But no-one apart from Sporty who suggested we shrug shoulders and walk away has come up with any constructive ideas......surely that would assist us more than telling us what you wouldn’t do



Tell us what you would do, after all judging by the amount of emails we are getting asking us if they can join us or can we pass the details on of what we are doing – we may not be the only persons on this forum asking that question or looking for an answer



At least we feel that we can speak and ask questions on here, according to some of the emails we have many feel too intimated to do so

mamachina


Joined: 22/11/2008
Posts: 730

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 16:41

We bought 4 years ago - and the Foreign Office was already giving warnings out. Court cases cost and sometimes do not go the way one wants!! I hope the Aga buyers get what they want, of course I do, they have waited long enough - but methinks we may all be in the same boat (the one back to where one came from) if the "talks" go awry and you can take that whichever way you want. We all have our own ideas on what is awry!!

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 17:08

I think that all of you who are criticising ABAG's move are saying the same thing, ABAG should have taken the loss quietly so that you can sell your property to someone who doesn't know that there are more problems than GCs knocking on your door. Wake up! ABAG did it and unless you've get a better idea it will stay un-did. I don't think that you realise that ABAG are no longer supporters of the TRNC and because they feel exhausted have been forced to take radical action to get the TRNC and the world to sit up and listen. They will continue to do this until they either die or they get their money back. It is not the current government's fault that this happened but by not listening to ABAG or creating a system where you get your deeds when you pay your money, then they are doing nothing to help.

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 18:01

You think wrong, I never said be quiet I said be carefull and that is because I think they have already suffered enough

and I would not like to see them suffer any more.

My property is not for sale and I have none of the motives you put in your post.

But then being a wannabe journo you would not let facts get in the way of the truth would you?

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 18:08

apologies TheSaints I hadn't realised you had criticised ABAG. Why the personal insult? Have you something against me personally or are you just trying to inflame this thread? I meant to say "most" instead of "all," the change was there in my head but didn't get corrected. Friends again?

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 18:56

Pat Suz and Sandra.

Good luck with your fight.

As you have pointed out , no one has come up with an alternative, and until they do, or volunteer to make good the losses I wouldnt bother to much .



For those that think Aga Buyers will cause our investments to lose value,what did all the years of keeping quiet and sweeping things under the carpet do ? Just gave the the authorities encouragement to let the behaviour continue to a point of no return. The word is out ,and Aga buyers can surely do no more damage to our investments than has already been done and might just be the catalyst to force change.

scruff


Joined: 15/07/2008
Posts: 1070

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 18:58

Msg 114

Malsancak you said this in you post. "It is not the current government's fault that this happened but by not listening to ABAG or creating a system where you get your deeds when you pay your money, then they are doing nothing to help."

I'm sure that you are aware that the Government with the current PM at it's helm, granted GJR's Kimlik card in 2003 (I think). This enabled him to buy land at Hz Omer & Amaranta valley. How was this Kimlik card granted to someone with an oustanding criminal case against him in the UK.? How was he given a PTP to buy property when he first came here from the UK in 1997? What did the Interpol check that should have been carried out, in the late 90s, when that PTP was granted show?

There was clearly Government involvement in these matters.

This PM may become the next President of the TRNC?

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 19:38

Scruff, I know GJR was granted a kimlik card along with others who the CTP apparently rescinded, but I was giving them another chance. Perhaps it's the New UBP

LondonCypriot


Joined: 15/12/2008
Posts: 426

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 19:58

You should of written the letter and got it hand delivered to his presendential office in Lefkosa and expressed your concerns. You should of also went to CTP Turkish offices and expressed your concerns.



Did you also write to the Turkish President asking for support as well?

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 20:03

!. it was sent from his own office in London would have been the same as hand delivering



2. We did go to the government office and their very own Property Info Office



3. On numerous occasion both direct to Turkey, and hand delivered to the Turkish Embassy in London



ABAG

LondonCypriot


Joined: 15/12/2008
Posts: 426

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 20:06

I think you are are wasting your money on solicitors fees and making things worser from my opinion. You should of concentrated your time more in Ankara and Lefkosa.



The United Nations and European Courts have imposed so much things on Turkey, but does Turkey really listen. The USA needs Turkey. From my personal opinion I think you are making things more worser by getting a solicitor, and your will make things more difficult.



The Greek Cypriots have been taking Turkey to court for the past 40 years and so far nothing.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 20:11

LondonCypriot you are right, it would be a waste of money paying the US solicitor, that's why ABAG are paying nothing. I too believe the court case will fail, that's why I believe ABAG are only using it to publicise their case wider.

LondonCypriot


Joined: 15/12/2008
Posts: 426

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 20:15

But the Greek Cypriots for the last 40 years have been sueing Turkey and nothing has really changed.

LondonCypriot


Joined: 15/12/2008
Posts: 426

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 20:22

So many court cases, so many UN resolutions and so many penalties but the TRNC is still established,

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 20:38

LondonCypriot, it's not about destroying the TRNC it's about getting people in the government to take notice of the injustices they are allowing. If the TRNC wants to be strong it has to act in a way that does not leave them open to criticisms for what they are doing NOW.

cypgab


Joined: 09/01/2010
Posts: 338

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 21:15

It does appear that a lot of contributors are much more worried about how the ABAG action will affect them than the plight of the victims. ABAG have suffered more than most of can imagine.



A few, Malsancak, Girne and Bradus for example, seem to have a realism and practicality some of us can agree with. ABAG have done more than most to warn innocent would-be buyers of the problems.



As a past and current supporter of ABAG I can't say I fully agree with the action they've taken but I fully understand it.



TheSaints quote: But then being a wannabe journo you would not let facts get in the way of the truth would you?



I don't understand this comment? What message of Alsancak's are you referring to?



Geoff

scruff


Joined: 15/07/2008
Posts: 1070

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 21:30

I think the Saints were referring to Malsancak Geoff?

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 22:30

Can I as a member of ABAG thank everyone who on this thread has supported us, especially Mal & Bradus, Tiggy message 13, Exnavalperson, Blackpoolfan, and WAZ-24-7,and anyone missed!



To the rest I understand If you're not in our position you want to defend the TRNC, but it must change, no-one else must ever be where we are now, Aga wasn't just a deal gone wrong, Aga was fraud on a very large scale, and the perpetrators must pay for their crime.



It will probably be a long time before I post on here again as an individual, so don't worry Tony E you won't have to get me banned!!!



Pat

xxxxxxxxx

luem1


Joined: 29/07/2009
Posts: 109

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 22:54

Re message 129



Why must it change, just for your own interest.

So far as I can see ABag are authors of their own misfortune!! Sucked in by promises of great returns on their investments. Didn't bother to do basic homework, which would have divulged G Robb and status of Aga Dev.

Hard luck, should have been more careful, and not seduced by prospect of huge profit!

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 23:00

Kev/Gary





Watch this space :0) and u will see

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 23:17

To those who criticise ABAG, I trust that someday you are not put in their position. As I've said already, having the attitude 'keep quiet, don't rock the boat ABAG cos I'm alright jack' is utterly wrong. As has been rightly pointed out, is this simply to try & protect your own property value & interests?



Likewise the cynical spiteful attitude that anyone who dares to speak out about injustice and corruption in the TRNC must be a GC sympathiser & or failed to do their research and therefore is to be vilified is also despicable.



I agree with Bradus. Well said.



As for what can ABAG do, the only answer I can come up with is shout about it from the rooftops and spread the word across the globe. I doubt it will do any good for their immediate cause but it may at least give some satisfaction if some day, those responsible or who did nothing, get the reward they deserve..

scruff


Joined: 15/07/2008
Posts: 1070

Message Posted:
10/01/2010 23:50

msg 130

Luem you say "Why must it change, just for your own interest".

I can't agree that the various problems that have beset people with their Property purchases in the TRNC, do not need addressing. How can you say this? It's not just the Aga buyers that have had problems here. It affected 1,000s of other too.

Your message seems very self centred & selfish to me.

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
11/01/2010 00:05

luem



I looked at Amaranta 2004, didnt see that it was cheaper than anywhere else in TRNC,therefore nobody should have bought in TRNC to avoid"authors of their own misfortune". While agreeing one should do their homework, if at the end of it you forget to cross reference Dartmouth escapees with development company directors,(that one should have to do that does not exactly encourage investment) does that mean one should have no protection under the law.





If I am naive and walk thro a bad area at night and get mugged should I still not be entitled to expect mugging to be a crime and for the law to punish the offenders.



As for who benifits from change , the answer would be everybody. It can do no good for TC or foreigner alike, for contracts to be unenforceable or for it to be legal for one to mortgage land one has just sold to someone. The current economic situation means competition for investment, and for investors to be told there will be no protection is a no no.

paddypony


Joined: 14/07/2009
Posts: 75

Message Posted:
11/01/2010 11:57

I do sympathise with your plight but be VERY careful. My experience with lawyers in the US tells me that they are just pulling you in from a vunarable position with enticements of false hope. They will then turn you over again "big time". Please dont get caught again!! This course will be a whole new problem for you NOT a remedy!! BEWARE! They are just less overt in stuffing you than the other guys who did. Get out while you still can!!

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
11/01/2010 12:39

I assume the US company is "no win no fee" as I'm sure ABAG is now applying a once bitten twice shy approach to this.

paddypony


Joined: 14/07/2009
Posts: 75

Message Posted:
11/01/2010 13:02

Hi Malsancak,

"No win No fee" on this kind of litigation may well be promised, but the reality is more in keeping with "No such thing as a free lunch!"



Think there is another entirely appropriate saying abour "slaughter" and "leading lambs"................



But hey, I guess ABAG (who I do not personally know) can deal with this? I understand the lawers approached them! Help!

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
11/01/2010 13:07

paddypony, you may be right but then you may be wrong. I personally believe the reason no money will exchange hands is because the case will never make the courts but it will make the headlines and that's what the law company really wants.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
11/01/2010 13:10

ABAG cannot comment at the moment - see http://latchfords.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!AED4FE7679CA3C33!2260.entry

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
11/01/2010 13:17

NCFP's view on this is that Tsimpedes Law firm are anti-TRNC and anti-Turkey and that to go with them associates ABAG with these views. For this reason Cyprus44 has no choice but to temporarily stop them posting. NCFP's view on ABAG's decision is that they too had no choice in their actions, apart from giving up, in order to gain publicity for their plight.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
11/01/2010 13:26

I have banned them for one month this morning to give them time to think and cool down after banning them on another forum too for a very virulent attack on TRNC and Turkey which had nothing to do with their own grievances. They simply became a mouthpiece for the GC propaganda machine accusing Turkey of using Nato weapons illegally in Cyprus and profiting to this day from this illegal action. It went on and called everyone to join forces with this law firm in their pursuit to attack Turkey and end the illegal occupation of Cyprus etc. etc.

So their ban on C44 was a preventive measure and I do hope they do see reason and their fallacy in the next 30 days.

ismet

Cyprusquest


Joined: 09/12/2008
Posts: 428

Message Posted:
11/01/2010 13:34

An extract from http://www.greeknewsonline.com/?p=11299



This was found through http://www.ahepa.org the American Hellenic Educational Progressive Association news bulletin and their Greek American Weekly News Digest.



"Greek American lawyer is seeking compensation for Greek Cypriot refugees deprived from their rights to use and enjoy their property in the occupied part of Cyprus.



New York.- by Apostolos Zoupaniotis



Greek American attorney Athan Tsimpedes announced that he has submitted an appeal against Turkey and the illegal regime in the Turkish occupied north of Cyprus, in a federal court in Washington, on behalf of three Cypriot refugees, asking for compensation for deprivation of their property rights." Etc...........



-- Do not tell me that the ABAG is not being drawn in for purely political reasons and in simple terms seem to be being treated like suckers. They and the others in similar circumstances have not been helped as well as they might & they have my sympathy.

paddypony


Joined: 14/07/2009
Posts: 75

Message Posted:
11/01/2010 13:37

malsancak, I would agree and I also C44 has acted correctly in stopping them posting. However this over zealous quest for "publicity" smacks of clutching at straws by ABAG. I do worry for them but what concerns me is the possible collateral damage for the rest of us at what could prove to be a very selfish and dangerous path to follow.......



I rarely get involved in this forum but feel that this issue and its current status has put its drivers way out of their depth now!

elkiton



Joined: 15/03/2009
Posts: 514

Message Posted:
11/01/2010 14:29

AGABaG are baned and given breathing space to consider the wisdom of their action. Hopefully they put this time to good use and reconsider their very dubious decision to join the South and prosecute Turkey & TRNC. Yes, property owners here are against such action.For hundreds if not thousands of us who have sold up in the UK, this is our new homeland which we will defend when we see attempts to damage it, which is what the AGA action is all about, nothing more or less. A spiteful backlash because they cannot get their own way. Buying off plan, be it in Spain, Cyprus, Turkey or Goa has always been a high risk.Why? Because it's speculation & it's cheaper or better,than buying finished property.You must research the risk, not buy because the salesperson sucked you in with a dream. When all goes well you congratulate yourself on the deal, when it goes wrong you become just another "Mug Punter".I have no solution to suggest to right their suffering, other than to keep seeking one.

TonyE

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
11/01/2010 14:29

I agree, paddypony, they are clutching at straws and like many here we understand why they are forced to do this. If the current government were bring in the changes mentioned in http://www.hbpg-trnc.net/documents/Press/CT191209_PMchanges.html then most of these problems would not affect new buyers and the housing market may even have a chance of recovering. Unfortunately for ABAG, this would also mean that even less people would take notice of them, as they would see these problems as a thing of the past and not the making of the current government. Mind you, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for these rumoured changes.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
11/01/2010 14:37

elkiton, I can only refer you back to the system here where the time taken to get title deeds means that you are forced to trust the systems the government have put in place and which don't work in many cases. Read the Vangos' article http://www.hbpg-trnc.net/documents/Press/CT191209_PMchanges.html. That case is still not resolved. There are apparently 100s and maybe even 1000s of people who are not Aga victims who are suffering because of this weakness in the system. You should not have to pay more than a deposit until your unencumbered title deeds are ready to be transferred to you. Sorry, call me old fashioned, but you should only pay for what you actually get.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
11/01/2010 16:33

Weren't all Brit attendees at that Pia Bella 'conference' literally mocked when the speaker opened by drawing an analogy, describing a dispute between TC villagers involving chickens, with foreigners' property dilemmas?



That is obviously the level of respect and consideration we are all regarded as being worthy of, and have been subsequently afforded.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
11/01/2010 16:34

malsancak,



You are 100% correct but we are stuck with what we have got and have to continue fighting with any means out our disposal. Going to Pia Bella and listening around I believe the figure with problems is certainly in many hundreds some with resolvable issues others like Don & Sheila for who it looks like it will drag on forever.



I sincerley hope the ABAG ladies do reflect on events of the last few days because I feel they may have shot themselves in both feet. The attitude they have given means they will have lost a lot of their support here and abroad. We all want them to win their case here cos if they do many others of us will be progressing too.



David

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
11/01/2010 17:25

cyprusishome, in my eyes the only crime now would be if someone buying today was to end up in the same situation as those with problems originating in the past. In the past the government could say, as it did, that it didn't know there were such problems, but how can they say that from now on. I repeat for the 1000th time probably, you are still forced to pay up front if you are non-Cypriot and that's why the issue is not too important to the government.

britvic



Joined: 05/09/2008
Posts: 3039

Message Posted:
11/01/2010 18:50

Hang on a minute, ABAG have been banned in case they say something? Is this a new rule?



New rule: We think you may break a rule so even though you have broken no rules we are banning you!

teatime


Joined: 20/10/2008
Posts: 852

Message Posted:
11/01/2010 19:50

Britvic ~ Have to agree with you here, banned for saying something on another forum ~ Can't find that in the rules!!!

flightholiday


Joined: 19/07/2007
Posts: 3217

Message Posted:
11/01/2010 20:17

Msg 141 + 150 If I understand correctly the ban is because they have been acting in a detrimental way with regard to the TRNC and Turkey not for what they might say.



On the 142 post by John (Cyprusquest) that their lawyer in the good old USofA is seemingly affiliated to a Hellenic related organisation you do start to wonder what and why.



The fact that they also seem to have a blatant disregard as to the effect of their actions on other people who have purchased seems nearly as bad as what they suffered themselves.



I keep out of these political things (be they in my opinion right or wrong). As we own an older property (we researched well but still had some buying problems) their actions in this instance could affect the value of the property which is my wifes inheritance if I beat her into a wooden box; I have been drawn in.



I have noted a lot of services have picked up on A.T. and his Turkish vendetta. In one sense ABAG have already done substantial damage by their action.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
11/01/2010 20:53

britvic.



If you follow through and read some of the links appearing elsewhere the decision of ismet has to be correct.



The ladies are about to implode so the decision is made to try to save them from themselves. Reading through the web sites of the solicitors etc involved briefly it is like they are teaming up with Greek Supremists.



I would normally agree with you in that there are many occasions where stupidity rules as regards censorship etc on this forum but this time Ismet is spot on.



There is no lack of support for the aim of the ladies just the methodology at present.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
11/01/2010 21:29

They only had to wait a few months for a Cyprus settlement and for the formation of the United Republic of Cyprus and there would be no reason to ban them for insulting the TRNC because it wouldn't exist and Lord Lucan would be seen riding Shergar on the clean beaches of the northern part of Cyprus, with Elvis on the back...

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
11/01/2010 21:37

Do not be daft, Elvis loves cheese and currenty resides on the moon where there is ample of the green variety!!



I bet you are one of those that maintains that there was a moon landing in 1969 and that the earth is round!!!

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
11/01/2010 22:40

Ahh, don't you just love the whiff of free speech, the right to peaceful protest, to tell others of your views, where others may disagree with your views but defend your right to say them to the end, where people stand up to be counted, show that British bulldog spirit, defending the underdog, putting the welfare of others before their own personal interests...

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
11/01/2010 23:45

Hector, why do you think we started up NCFP? It has its downside, Greeks bearing rhetoric, but ABAG will never be banned there even though I personally don't like their association with Tsimpedes Law, but also understand why they did it. But then we've got no advertisers to keep happy.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
12/01/2010 00:16

And long may you continue. I look forward to a NCFP campaign bearing fruit.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
12/01/2010 10:56

if only we had more people willing to write articles, hint, hint.

Cobbler


Joined: 15/11/2009
Posts: 61

Message Posted:
12/01/2010 12:44

Look out malsancak, you'll be banned next ! lol

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
12/01/2010 12:59

cobbler, if I was I'd have a lot more spare time as I'm beginning to getting addicted to posting. NCFP is pro-TRNC, or north Cyprus as well tend to diplomatically call it, although hopefully we'll never be stopped from criticising actions taken by individuals I would expect to be banned if I criticised the legality of the TRNC. Perhaps if there ever was a 2-state solution the name would change to show they were no longer Turkish but the population statistics might show otherwise. A rose by any other name...

Jwheeler&Sons


Joined: 10/06/2008
Posts: 141

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 02:40

Hasan Sungur helped me get some money back from Unwin , he is a good guy.

Jwheeler&Sons


Joined: 10/06/2008
Posts: 141

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 03:00

He Promised to help ABAG when he told us in Peanuts bar, Unwin was a problem in the TRNC and would be going home to sort his business soon

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 10:37

Nobody, apart from the crooks involved, seem to know the truth and the details of the facts regarding the AGA scam.



Did Gary Robb, when he returned, get all the 'frozen' account(s) money back, or where was it, or some of it, (allegedly) 'siphoned' off to?



There must be traceable banking transactions; and, for sure, those that know! Has there been any sort of government investigation?



Where is Gary Robb's machinery and sizeable fleet of earthmoving equipment now, for instance?



Why, when he was invited back to TRNC, by 'we all know who', was Gary Robb subsequently considered 'persona non grata' and deported?



Was it because certain people had 'bled him, or AGA, dry', so therefore he was no longer any use to them?



Those that have followed the 'AGA Saga' can draw their own conclusions.



Personally, since I live here, I fervently wish for the TRNC to undergo a speedy recovery to the economy, but currently I don't see much hope, unless the government shows it cares.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 18:00

"Personally, since I live here, I fervently wish for the TRNC to undergo a speedy recovery to the economy, but currently I don't see much hope, unless the government shows it cares."



Not a lot of past evidence of that.

elkiton



Joined: 15/03/2009
Posts: 514

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 18:35

Malcansac #146. Don't disagree with you, parting with money up front is a risk, and as I said, parting with it on off-plans is the highest risk, especially in the TRNC where p2p etc is delayed. Two years I was reading about this place before I bought, and assessed the risk as being very high, but in my particular situation, having come out of a cripplingly expensive divorce, putting every penny on a gamble was my choice, a sort of sh**-or-bust approach and it has paid off.....ok ok there are still N v S risks in play.

Anyone who buys any property off plan is taking one hell of a risk. These people took the risk and came unstuck. I don't believe for one minute that had my gamble crashed, that I would be trying to bring the TRNC down which is clearly what they are trying. Bleat yes, score own goals. no. The TRNc isl not an investors paradise, but a speculators paradise, we buyers should accept the risks, or admit that we did not do our homework.

TonyE

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 18:50

Actually, elkiton, the ABAG women were not into gambling with their savings. Back in 2002, when I bought, I too was not into gambling. I don't gamble with money I cannot afford to lose. Losing my money was NEVER in my mind and whenever there was a chance that I might, e.g. during a dispute with my neighbour, my stress levels hit the roof. That is why I didn't gamble. A gambler such as yourself obviously has enough money to take the loss, I assume you are not gambaholic. If I was to lose my property here I would have nothing and would have to live in rented accommodation in the UK. I would be a little more than simply upset.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 19:01

Why do those who have the 'I'm cleverer than you idiots cos I did my homework' attitude seem to think that anyone who dares criticise the legal system etc. in the TRNC are either trying to bring it down or are a covert GC?



I am critical of many things in the UK including the government but I'm certainly not trying to bring it down.

flightholiday


Joined: 19/07/2007
Posts: 3217

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 19:30

Hector Msg 168 I am not sure that your thought applies to many of the people who are not happy with the detractors of North Cyprus:

a - Most of them have a lot to lose

b - Many of the pro TRNC people have invested their "pension" and property in TRNC like you

c - Many are living in North Cyprus with Turkish Cypriots as friends

d - We are all guests in North Cyprus although many of us have invested in property there

e - We bought into the local systems, legal system and environment - not to bring ours in to the TRNC

f - No one is saying they are cleverer than you - at the most they are saying they bought with a better idea of the risks - it is down to research, being level headed and knowledge - unhappily many of us listen to our hearts first and our pockets second not weighing things up as well as we might (we are human)

g - In the Eastern Med. criticism is viewed differently to in the UK

h - I could go on - remember that it's every person in TRNC who looses not just expats

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 20:46

message 169



"We bought into the local systems, legal system and environment - not to bring ours in to the TRNC"



Thats right we bought into the local system ,so what happened with, quote?

'The TRNC legal system is based on that of England. English case law is closely followed and most statutes

regarding business matters are based on English Laws.'



Regarding the environmental situation , even if I accept your point that as a guest I should not comment on dumping rubbish and litter,I do not accept we should have to "buy" into it.





As for having a lot to lose .I certainly dont want to lose, but my better side does not want to profit by relying on peoples ignorance of the situation. Hopefully my investment is made safe by correcting the problems rather than hiding them.







As for criticism being looked on differently.Dont know what that means,but dont think if I had been done out of a £100k I wouldnt let that excuse shut me down.

measey


Joined: 07/02/2009
Posts: 1037

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 21:05

Ismet. didnt think i would say it but have to agree on this one, shouldnt attack TRNC IN THIS WAY.



Keith.

flightholiday


Joined: 19/07/2007
Posts: 3217

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 21:22

Hi Grumpy - I'm a grumpy too.



Msg 170



The Brit's were trying to get out over 50 years ago and in 50 years the law changes but the British law may have differed in the colonies. The TRNC legal system has not been that similar for a while but is still different and has been for ages.



The environment, I agree but what we all can do is try to lead by example and slowly try to help the changes that we might like to see develop.



Yes things have to be corrected I am sure you would agree; from within and with our assistance not by our barging in over some ten years or less.



A lot of critisism comes from the expats.



In such a small country it can seem that we are making a lot of noise where the same amount of noise in the UK which is 240 times the population would sound and appear to be rather more muted (and therefore sound more reasonable).

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 22:19

"In such a small country it can seem that we are making a lot of noise where the same amount of noise in the UK which is 240 times the population would sound and appear to be rather more muted (and therefore sound more reasonable)."



Injustice, fraud, corruption, nepotism and incompetence are the same evil in any size country. If the complaints are totally without foundation then those in positions of power should say so. If these problems didn't exist then the silence would be deafening. The truth often hurts as they say.



A lot of criticism also comes from non expats who are also affected.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 22:30

I am sick to the teeth of people using the same old excuse,



"That's the way it is in Cyprus, you just have to be prepared to take a risk"



Personally and some of the posts on this forum prove my view point, Cyprus is like it is because most people allow it to be like this. Instead of supporting a much needed cultural change their loyalty is given to a government, country and a legal system rather than an ideal or a victim of the most blatant fraud. Corruption in business or Government will only continue if people who know about it do nothing.



What sort of a future does the TRNC have if buying is associated with high risk. One might take risks with the Stock Market and shares but few would be daft enough to risk their homes and livelihoods. Very few people buy for investment they want a home, a dream of retirement in the sun or family holidays.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 22:35

cont/

Some may accuse the Aga ladies of damaging the reputation of the island and taking sides with the "enemy" but they also need to look at the long term effects of their inaction and apathy. All most people are asking for is transparency, legal protection, accountability and responsibility.



Not such a lot to ask for is it?

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 22:39

Bradus

Hear Hear!

elkiton



Joined: 15/03/2009
Posts: 514

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 22:46

Mals 167, Did you buy Turkish title? if not and you bought in the TRNC in 2002 then you were gambling the same as I. This country has been in limbo for some 35 odd years, stateless even, and I believe that we buyers had an eye to the future when all will be resolved. So are we not all carpetbaggers?

And no, I have no other resources to fall back on. I too have sunk my all into this country, unlike the part time players in the game who have holiday villas and visit for a couple of weeks a year, I live here permanently.



Hector, it would be very interesting to see what percentage of buyers actually have had legal problems unresolved....reading this forum one would believe that EVERYBODY had had a problem. Asking at any bar shows 90%+ of buyers are happy with their lot.



Criticising the legal profession here is not the issue its what the Aga women are trying to do to the TRNC through their action with the south that is the problem.

TonyE

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 23:27

flightholiday



I agree with what most of what you say but what a lot of people on this site say is that we shouldnt complain about anything because we should have done our research and known we were unprotected by the legal system.Yet when we help others by commenting on the system we are castigated for helping in their research .Cant have it both ways.



You give a very good example of how people can be misled even after researching.You say,quite rightly"The TRNC legal system has not been that similar for a while but is still different and has been for ages." however the quote I gave " The TRNC legal system is based on that of England. English case law is closely followed and most statutes regarding business matters are based on English Laws." Is taken from the North Cyprus Business Guide,and is duplicated in just about every piece of property literature.



In researching ,unfortunately an investor is unlikely to read your correct statement but rather the false one .

YeniTom


Joined: 29/12/2009
Posts: 198

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 23:52

I normally stay out of political debates - because I don't know enough but I think I do understand peoples feelings and I can try to understand what people feel when they have lost so much.



In Msg 126 alsancak said "LondonCypriot, it's not about destroying the TRNC it's about getting people in the government to take notice of the injustices they are allowing. If the TRNC wants to be strong it has to act in a way that does not leave them open to criticisms for what they are doing NOW." and I totally agree but.....



The systems that operate in TRNC are , in my opinion, sometimes bad, but I also feel that these systems are operated by a different culture in a different country and I do get angered by Brits that preach that everything should be as it is in the UK. I steer well clear of the 'Little Britain' groups while I'm in the TRNC because all I hear usually is wingeing.

Hopefully these systems will evolve to accomodate foreigners buying properties, operating businesses ...cont

YeniTom


Joined: 29/12/2009
Posts: 198

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 23:57

but I cannot see any point in posting on open forums that most of the Turkish Cypriots in authority are liars, thieves and criminals.



Surely we should behave as rational people and campaign properly so that people in authoity do not liken us to village chickens but are willing to sit with us and listen to us in furtherence of their own futures.



Tom

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
14/01/2010 07:37

Girne 29



The fact that the stuff about UK law is in most estate agent rubbish goes some way to pointing the blame towards those people for perpetuating a lie.



Having seen the date on part of the law supposedly relating to buying, 1959, it obviously bears no relation to English law as it stands today.



I agree with earlier comments regrding the culture we have moved into, having seen it at first hand. It is not quite gun culture but offer an insult to a builder, government official etc and you may as well forget about achieving anything. I do not say it is right but you either accept or go and live elsewhere. The attack by the ladies, in my opinion has set back the cause of all of us fighting for our homes, the government will never listen to us now. We have been working with Marian Stokes on our problems and felt we were making small steps but now the doors are closed.

elkiton



Joined: 15/03/2009
Posts: 514

Message Posted:
14/01/2010 10:08

Yes...damage has been done.

Once again for those listening, it is not about "Not complaining", or "Not trying to make the system better", we should always try to improve the way things are done......It's about an action that is blatantly stupid and fly's in the face of any logical or diplomatic effort to right wrongs. I think that some people here are more than just shortsighted; from their postings they must have stood around in playground fights cheering on the participants for the thrill of the combat without thought of the damage or outcome.

You do not insult your host country openly, not do you accuse the judiciary of being criminals just because you do not like the outcome of legal proceedings. Nor would any sane person living in the North want it brought down as the case sets out to do. This makes me wonder if the "pro aga action" posters actually have property here, or are sat by their European firesides cheering on these poor deluded women.

tonyE

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
14/01/2010 11:45

tonyE



I am sure the stock answer to any complaint being if you dont like it then beat it,would be willingly taken up by AGA buyers.They want to do exactly that ,but want the money that has been conned from them back. They have run out of options. While I might agree that their route is wrong you can surely see that asking them to be concerned about the bad publicity given to the property market in TRNC is a bit insensitive.



As to your point about people with no property cheering them on.Are the opinions of those people not of even greater value than ours ,as they have no vested interest and are looking at it purely from a moral point of view .



As for making the system better,how is that going to happen,even Marion Stokes has been criticised for damaging the property market.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
14/01/2010 11:49

elkiton, as you know I not only have property here but I have everything I own invested in it. I don't support ABAG in the route they are taking but I don't know what else they can take. They haven't signed up yet so perhaps someone in government will listen and DO something that will change their minds.



Yes, my title deeds said the land was Turkish and, as my "lawyer" explained, they was issued by the Turkish Republic of North Cyprus. He explained about a system of exchange where the owner of my land had exchanged it for land he owned in the south etc etc.



If you are suggesting that I ignore the lawyers advice then perhaps you should also suggest the we ignore the advice of everyone here: doctors, dentists, pharmacists, electricians etc. Perhaps we should operate on ourselves, pull our own teeth out...

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
14/01/2010 11:55

183 cont

Lots of people bought here to live ,not as a gamble ,and those that bought as a gamble should have stuck to the bookies instead of blaming bad publicity from Aga Buyers and HBPG etc for the gamble not paying off.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
14/01/2010 11:57

elkiton/Msg 182: 'You do not insult your host country openly, not do you accuse the judiciary of being criminals just because you do not like the outcome of legal proceedings.'



As far as I can gather, the ABAG posters on this thread declared that they had no wish to live in TRNC and would never again do so. If this is correct, how can they be insulting their home country?



Do you really expect these poor, cheated people to write off their losses with a wistful smile - would you?



I don't think so.



Before you start to castigate me, perhaps you should know that I bought pre '74 (genuine) Turkish Title, for which, despite all assurances to the contrary, PTP was refused. Too right I feel cheated!

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
14/01/2010 12:03

From Msg 186: 'As far as I can gather, the ABAG posters on this thread declared that they had no wish to live in TRNC and would never again do so. If this is correct, how can they be insulting their home country?'



That should have read 'host country'.



BTW: isn't it normal for 'hosts' to try to make their guests relaxed, welcome and wanted... ?

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
14/01/2010 16:32

Host would be fine if we had been invited to live here.



As nobody invited us then the government can do what they wish. Who says we were wanted?????

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
15/01/2010 02:20

Cyprusishome.



From TRNC Gov info.

"Giving information about investments on tourism and education sectors Avcý explained incentives for foreign businessmen in the TRNC and the activities of Cyprus Turkish Investment Development Policy (YAGA). Avcý also said that the TRNC government has also a policy of allocating land for big investments. "

incentives are usually given to encourage ,in this case, foreign businessment to come to the TRNC. I would call that an invitation.

If we werent wanted, the solution was easy, discourage the selling of property to foreigners. I seem to remember the exact opposite happening .Everything possible was done to get people to come(invite?) and buy property.

As for"As nobody invited us then the government can do what they wish." I dont think the Gov would accept your line as they will be aware of EU looking on from the sidelines ,and will be aware of how seriously the EU is in passing laws that protect people from Govts doing as they wish with people

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
15/01/2010 07:10

Personally I never saw anything from the government saying "please come and buy a house here".



Did see all the potential warnings such as do not buy your house and hand over money until you have PTP. Also that PTP was not guaranteed for "any property including pre 1974". Anything to that effect was from estate agents and so called lawyers.



We took a gamble based on those facts so anything that went wrong was OUR fault.



The fact that things went wrong after that are down to the builder who one day will pay his price!!!!!!!

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
15/01/2010 13:17

Cyprusishome



Property is the number 1 earner in TRNC, Only the ROC dont want you to "come and buy a house here"





They did and do encourage investment.but if I agree with you that investors in property are not wanted ,why did they not discourage it before now.Refusing PTP to foreigners or refusing residency.

If we are not wanted in TRNC, then should not all estate agents be forced by the Govt to inform clients of that.



Agree we took a chance ,as you do anywhere,but surely saying "anything" that went wrong is our fault is a step to far.

Any modern state should offer protection under its laws,to all,visitor or not,buyer or renter

To be silly for a moment, if I hadnt bought a villa in TRNC ,then it wouldnt be burgled ,therefore I am at fault because nobody forced me to buy .?



Smacks of the PC nonsense in UK where the victim is at fault ,for leaving a door open or parking in an unlit street, but the criminal is blameless

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
15/01/2010 17:26

I think your last para sums it up girne29.



Whatever we are stuffed every which way!!!!!!!



Whatever got to keep fighting, making small moves forwards and maybe in another 4 years will be sorted. He,Ho!!!!!!

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
10/02/2010 16:20

Hi Guys





Hmm back again - how long before we are banned again in case we say something ???????



xxxxxx

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
11/02/2010 04:31

Hello Aga Buyers,



What is the latest on your venture with the USA to take action against the TRNC & Turkey ??????

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
11/02/2010 09:29

Hi Tiggy



we have set a date for 19 Feb for the closing date for the lawsuit and the latest blog can be seen here



http://latchfords.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!AED4FE7679CA3C33!2337.entry



it just really reminds people that if you have no deeds and have paid money you can join the lawsuit. It also reminds people of the FCO advice. We have had a good response and do have enough people now to make this lawsuit viable. We are hoping the lawsuit will be filed in the first week of March - the only thing that will hold that up is the adverse weather conditions in Washington DC which is causing a huge court backlog. Washington DC is on almost shut down in the public buildings. The cllosing date letter details can be seen here



http://latchfords.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!AED4FE7679CA3C33!2290.entry



and is entitled TO ALL NORTH CYPRUS PROPERTY VICTIMS



Can we also say if you are offended by what we are undertaking, then don't read the blog !



ABAG

xxxx

ROBIN HOOD


Joined: 26/05/2008
Posts: 238

Message Posted:
11/02/2010 18:13

The recent refusal of the high court in TRNC in Pauline Read's case show the levelof "politcal resolve" here. It's the Banks who pay the Govt , it'S the banks that call the tune. Sorry but I see no other way to interpret the situation.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
11/02/2010 18:31

It has been mooted that successive governments, North and South, are (allegedly) co-conspirators with the banks in the organised scam to 'rip off the Brits'.



Their track record in respect of overhauling the utterly flawed and totally inadequate 'legal system' perennially appears to support such an allegation.



The word 'Shame', obviously, is meaningless to them!

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
11/02/2010 20:02

The attorneys will get the the lawsuit clients (not just AGA victims) banks (not just HSBC) that have been used by the Estate Agents, Lawyer and Associated peoples etc.......all of who who have a physical presence in the USA to be subpoenaed to open the necessary accounts and then the money trails of who, where and when will become apparent. All these banks have provided a conduit to the TRNC to channel the monies wrongfully taken from people like AGA Buyers Action Group.



ABAG

paddypony


Joined: 14/07/2009
Posts: 75

Message Posted:
11/02/2010 21:13

You dont learn..... Why make 2 mistakes by appointing the US lawyers, or is it that you want to be had over again? Self harm should be limited.



I do feel sorry for you but............Please get out while you have a chance, the US lawyers will do as good a job as Mr Robb - believe me!



From experience of US lawyers - never mind the GC bias ones!!

Aga Buyers A G


Joined: 04/10/2007
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
11/02/2010 21:16