TRNC Should BecomeTurkey

measey


Joined: 07/02/2009
Posts: 1037

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 11:50

Hi All. There are many more people on this Forum with more Knowledge than me on this subject .But i believe that the only outcome can be that the TRNC becomes the State of Turkey with or without being members of the EU. These are my honest assements on this issue, Unless someone can convince me different.



Keith.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 11:56

Keith,

Jobs a gud un mate get yourself down to Nicosia.Talks sorted lets have a party,

Paul.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 12:08

that what the "Turkish" in TRNC stands for

Cyprusquest


Joined: 09/12/2008
Posts: 428

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 12:25

Malsancak - sorry to differ it stands for Turkish Cypriots a republic is not a region but a country in it's own right.



As we know the Turkish Republic of North Cyprus is supported by Turkey in most senses anyway.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 14:35

I'm surprised it's not called TCRNC then I'm not sure what form a separate non-EU north Cyprus would take but without the ability to support itself it will be at the mercy of Turkish aid. The US discovered the power of aid rather than empire after WW2 exposed the British inability to protect the Empire.

measey


Joined: 07/02/2009
Posts: 1037

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 14:46

Malsancak. do you not think it should be just Turkey anyway, dont understand by what you mean at the Mercy of Turkish Aid, as without the Turkish Support where would the North be.



Keith.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 15:11

Measey,

In deeper shite then it is now,

Paul.

measey


Joined: 07/02/2009
Posts: 1037

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 15:38

Paul. I agree, I Think the EU Could sort this out with both sides, if the USA was more determined as they seem to have the last word on everthing connected to the EU, and then the South would have to fall in Line.



Keith.

flightholiday


Joined: 19/07/2007
Posts: 3217

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 15:50

Keith Msg 8



The South fall in line - I suspect that England would be more likely to become a part of the Greater Welsh Empire first.



To put it another way. I think that for various reasons the Cypriots down South will not change their thoughts and behaviour in my lifetime and maybe a lot longer.

measey


Joined: 07/02/2009
Posts: 1037

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 17:19

flightholiday Msg 9



The south being EU members , would do as they are told by the USA, if not then surely pressure by the rest of the EU members towards the South could solve it.After all there the ones that are being unreasonable.



Keith.

flightholiday


Joined: 19/07/2007
Posts: 3217

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 17:33

Msg 10 - We would wish but I suspect if they would it would have happened in the 1960's

measey


Joined: 07/02/2009
Posts: 1037

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 17:43

Message 11. maybe the Turkish Goverment should come out an say that as from 1st February 2010 the TRNC Will now be Refered as Turkey.



Keith

Aslan


Joined: 23/06/2008
Posts: 757

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 17:46

Me thinks you read my post on a previous subject, however good topic well done for bringing it to our attention!!

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 18:07

measey,



looking at this from turkey's viewpoint,

they could choose to take over north cyprus and incorporate it

but there'd be a downside too...



the talks and turkey's eu application

would be derailed, though it looks like both are on their last legs anyway

howls of outrage would issue from nicosia

but I wonder if they could do anything worse than they are now



on the positive side, north cyprus "may" already have a majority of mainland turks anyway,

and if the south gets stroppy it may involve raising the stakes:

as regards the south ever "reclaiming" north cyprus this is extremely unlikely in my view



like all the talk of "solutions" "deals" memberships" and "acceptances"

you need to go one step back and ask two vital questions:

who would the gainers and losers be?

to whose benefit would any change be promoted?



finally do not imagine the usa either has the power let alone the will

to "order" the eu to accept turkey as a member state, they tried asking twice

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 18:39

measey, Turkey could, but hasn't, pressurise north Cyprus by threatening to withdraw its aid. This is what the US did after ww2 to some of the countries it gave aid to. North Cyprus, by relying on the aid and not supporting itself, potentially leaves itself open to pressure.



As others have said, an easier way to Turkify north Cyprus is to work towards making sure the number of non-Turks being able to vote becomes less than the Turks. This includes making sure Brit residents don't get the vote. Universal Suffrage does not apply in north Cyprus to the extent of allowing long-term non-citizens a vote. Plus there are secret special requirements in order for Brits to become citizens

measey


Joined: 07/02/2009
Posts: 1037

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 20:11

malsancak. Cannot ever see the TRNC Supporting itself without the Turks, in my opion they would be wiped out over night without them.



Keith.

measey


Joined: 07/02/2009
Posts: 1037

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 20:21

andre. Have never seen the advantage as to EU membership anyway, look at the south dont believe it has been any benifet to them in fact i think its had an adverse effect .As for USA take your point on board, but think

most other EU members including the UK stand and sit when told by there Lord and Master OF USA.



Keith.

measey


Joined: 07/02/2009
Posts: 1037

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 20:37

Aslan.Thanks, but no hadnt honestly read your previous tread whats your opion on this as stated before im sure there are people on this forum who have more knowledge, always willing to take on board pionts of view on this subject.



Keith.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 21:07

keith,



there are huge amounts of eu cash that poorer countries can only dream about:

think georgia, ukraine, albania

but south cyprus has morphed into a sort of milton keynes in the sun

(absolutely nothing wrong with mk though!)



meanwhile america does not have the ability to force the eu to accept turkey,

...they couldn't even protect the argentine generals from mrs thatcher in 1982



there is already muttering in turkey about euro-changes they were obliged to make,

but now with very little chance of any payoff in the end



then again, it is really not clear which if any cyprus/turkey deals would benefit everyone,

people could lose homes or livlihoods and the north its character



while I appreciate it is unfair that foreign residents have little say or votes whatever,

as malcolm rightly reminds us...

it does seem that a lot swallow uncritically the chimera of a "cyprus solution"

ushering in universal peace and brotherhood, whatever the harsh lessons of history

Carndi


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 613

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 23:41

There is no reason that the TRNC could not become a recognised Protecterate of Turkey. This, I believe, would permit the TRNC to have its own government but overseen by Turkey.

Much the same as now but a declared recognition to the rest of the world.

Perhaps someone with more knowledge than I could give their thoughts on this.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
14/01/2010 08:05

caarndi,



there is every reasom the trnc cannot become a recognised protectorate



firstly it is already a protectorate



secondly it is not internationaly recognised



andre

measey


Joined: 07/02/2009
Posts: 1037

Message Posted:
14/01/2010 10:35

Andre. it seems to me that the cyprus problem has no solution at this time so i dont see what this would change. But feel by stating to the World that it will be refered to as Turkey states its intent .Turkey allready does Business with the UK and many other Countries in the Textile Business of which i buy for my Company being Non Euro it makes it good value and the Quality is good two, so being not internationly recognised is no hardship in my eyes.



Keith.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
14/01/2010 13:35

keith,



classification of north cyprus by the eu is occupied territory

...a change of title will hardly affect things, though turkey could annexe the trnc



of course the eu is notoriously unfriendly both to turkey and north cyprus



a failiure of successive greek-cypriot regimes to come to terms with their history

is as much a problem for them as for anyone else...

this is why you are unlikely to find the will to compromise coming from that quarter

one of south cyprus' most prominent analysts reckons the gc's have only this generation

to get anything sorted as regards land and property they claim to have formerly occupied



despite the continued torment of the isolations,

in the very long run the tide is running in favour of turkey and its north cyprus protectorate

and without knowing your circumstances

lack of what you still choose to call a solution may not be half as bad as it seems

measey


Joined: 07/02/2009
Posts: 1037

Message Posted:
14/01/2010 13:41

Andre. thanks for your reply all points taken on board.



Keith.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
14/01/2010 14:33

andre514, "classification of north cyprus by the eu is occupied territory "

Sorry to be pedantic but the EU website classifies north Cyprus as "northern Cyprus", it reserves the title "occupied territory" mainly for Palestine

http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=IP/03/786&format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en

It seems that its mainly GCs who use the term and not the EU.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
14/01/2010 19:32

thanks malcome I stand corrected!



the point I was really trying to make was that given enough time,

the cyprus dispute could end up like the battle of wounded knee,



a plaything for historians with nobody left to give an eyewitness acount



we could be talking of the whole greek-cypriot cause

fading into a sepia-tinted historical quest



...rather like the events surrounding greece's botched occupation of smyna

and the resultant long trek back from eastern thrace in 1923



I suppose even I have been affected by gc hard luck stories,

whether true or false but letting a fair compromise slip through their fingers



whereas millions of other 20th century refugees have had to like it or lump it



coming back to your 2003 article,

the eu seems to have totally overreached itself in 2003/2004

with hints and promises galore, largely of course, unfulfilled



finally I hope I have not upset any native americans with my remarks above

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
14/01/2010 21:12

Andre514, I think you've only put your Big Foot in as far as the Minniconjou Sioux Nation are concerned.