Whats France got against Turkey

dobbo



Joined: 13/06/2007
Posts: 72

Message Posted:
04/06/2008 12:21

I would be grateful if anybody can explain to me why the french seem to have it in for the turks. Joint military operations with Cyprus, they dont want them in the EU. Whats there poblem?

Regards

John

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
04/06/2008 12:53

Hi dobbo,



Don't really know my friend, but could it be that it might legitimise the TRNC by implication.



In any event the French have always been " fractious "diplomatically" so I would image



something of that order.



wyn

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
04/06/2008 13:24

France has been hostile towards Turkey for many years.



My own view on EU would be that France got inundated with Algerians in the early 60's after the debacle there and probably do not want same again.



France also waved a big stick at Turkey over the Armenia issue and I am sure Turkey will never forvive them for that.



For some reason which someone else may answer France is one of the more Islamaphobic countries, they do not want any more Moslems at any cost.

wish2rent


Joined: 26/05/2008
Posts: 70

Message Posted:
04/06/2008 14:00

With regards to Turkey and the accession to the EU, France are concerned that Turkey will be granted to much power. Voting power between EU states is based on the countries land mass and France, Germany and a few other small EU members do not wish for an Islamic state to have a greater voting power than themselves.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
04/06/2008 14:28

hi dobbo

france not having good relations with the turks goes as far back as the early 1900's, when the allied forces tried unsuccesfully to take over turkey

in 1916 france and britain signed a secret agreement called the sykes and picot agreement which was to gain control of west asia this was including turkey

then soon after the first world war where the turks were on the german side all allied forces met in france 1919 to decide what country could control the varying parts of turkey britain occupied instanbul, italy had antayla, greeks had izmir and the french took cilicia aswel as mersin and in turn which opened the doors for them to take syria and armenia aswell as cyprus if they wanted to,

then when the franco turkish war or named the Cilicia war broke out, the turks drove the french army back, france was forced to sign the treaty of ankara in 1921 to stop their soliders dying then in 1922 the armistice of mudanya was signed between turkey (newly formed country) and britain, italy, france

then fianlly the treaty of lausanne which was a peace treaty and which split the turkish empire and also ended all turkish claims to syria and iraq aswell as handing cyprus over to the the brits and in turn turkey could be internationaly reconised as the republic of turkey

since then even thou france was one of the first to reconise turkey as a republic state relations were icy up until around the late 1990's when trade between the two countries were very good and turkey became france third largest trade partner but pollitcally they dont see eye to eye this due down to a lot of misconceptions about turks in france and other than germany and britain it has a lot of turks living there also not forgetting greece being a alied force for many years they tend to take the side of our grecian brothers, they also think but wont admit it they dont really want a mostly muslim country being in the e.u (christian club thats another story!!!) and also turkey having the largest army in the e.u, in my view it has got a lot to do with turst!!!

what do they think turkey will one day get up and say they are taking over europe!!!!!

sorry to waffle on with the history lesson

regards

ukturk

McSteviet



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1089

Message Posted:
04/06/2008 14:42

Very good Erkan, good to know some more history about the region.



MC

dobbo



Joined: 13/06/2007
Posts: 72

Message Posted:
04/06/2008 15:23

Thanks for all your replys.

It all seems a bit petty to me!

regards

John

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
04/06/2008 15:29

Because they are French end of,

Regards,

Paul.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
04/06/2008 15:41

Some people like to be recognised as been special. To feel this specialness they often act rebelliously or eccentricly to gain attention.

France is like these people, it loves to take polar positions to draw attention to it's beuatiful history and sense of importance in the world. It's in it's cultural DNA.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
04/06/2008 16:46

I think they call it jeuneset qua or vavavoom,

Paul.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
04/06/2008 17:25

definately vavavoom Paul :--

Aussie


Joined: 17/06/2007
Posts: 657

Message Posted:
04/06/2008 17:45

I wouldn't take it too personally



The French have a massive inferiority complex steming in part from ther inability to win a war on their own since Napoleon. They back this up with monumental hypocracy ignoring its numerous overseas foreign policy debacles such as Vietnam, Algeria etc and recently have a poor record in backing opressive regimes such as in Rwanda. To top this off untill fairly recently they tested nuclear weapon in the South Pacific to pollute someone elses environment and also used special agents to bomb a greenpeace protest ship the Rainbow Warrier killing an injuring some of the crew in a neutral third country being New Zealand. When the culprits were caught and jailed in New Zealand they were released to serve out their sentence in the French Pacific and soon after unilaterally released without serviing their sentence.



As far as I am concerned the French show nothing but contempt for all of those countries that fought in both world wars to assist them.

In my opinion we fought of the wrong side in the First World War (but NOT the second) and much of the seeds of the second world war can also be blaimed on them. They have also got away with a shameful record of collaberation in the second world war and also owe a large debt to countries like America for the vast sums they contributed to their reconstruction and completely underserved support in restoring them to a position of post war influence in the divison of Germany etc.



How the French can seriously adopt the moral high ground in dictating appropriate foreign policy to other countries is beyond me given the above and their shameful colonial record



Anyway that enough of my rant on this subject



Aussie

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
04/06/2008 18:09

Intersting stuff Aussie

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
04/06/2008 18:16

le francais, garder le fracais xxxx le monde.

brian24001


Joined: 23/03/2008
Posts: 606

Message Posted:
04/06/2008 18:31

vous voulez la vérité?

Aussie


Joined: 17/06/2007
Posts: 657

Message Posted:
04/06/2008 19:14

While I'm at it why do we perservere with the farce of having French as the diplomatic language and much to my disgust its written on my passport.



How many people these days speak French who are not native speakers that can't speak English. Even amoungst other European languages I would have thought Spanish German and Russian were more widely spoken and Chinese is spoken much more widely in Asia and in large Chinese expat communities throughout the world.



If its just about tradition we should go back to Latin.



Maybe we should have a worldwide anti French day.



Aussie

brian24001


Joined: 23/03/2008
Posts: 606

Message Posted:
04/06/2008 19:35

---------------------------------------------------------------

Aussie wrote:--

"Maybe we should have a worldwide anti French day."

---------------------------------------------------------------



très bonne idée

peut-être nous pouvons manger des hamburgers de kangourou aussi

cruggs


Joined: 06/04/2008
Posts: 498

Message Posted:
04/06/2008 19:37

yeah and i dont like their cooking either,frogs legs and snails why dont we tell them to hop it.give me a good old emu egg,and a coala steak any day

got to go now the billys boiling.

sylvie


Joined: 12/03/2008
Posts: 1081

Message Posted:
04/06/2008 19:45

as you know i am french, i have nothing against english people living in cyprus but the question at the beginning was "what french ..........." and apart ukturks who nicely explain the historical facts most of you started to critizised " the french" - the french are not all alike , like you are not the representative of "the english" in cyprus - politic has nothing to do with the majority of the people - we just have, like you do, to accept what french gouvernment decide - our country is half half -

about the colonian spirit, pardon me but english people have colonised much than us !!!



an other thing, i am french and i adapt myself to speek english to you - no of you did, i speak turkish as well - how many of you do speak the language after 2 ou 3 Years living in cyprus - i see every summer english resident speaking english to the restaurant, supermarket .......... you have to adapt yourself to the country - custom - way of life because cyprus is not "your country"since 1958 -



uk turk we are right the main problem was the armenian but also france has always been pro greece - and beleive me turkey do not need france and i don't wish turkey to become a member of eu for it's own sake !!! france missed the opportunity - too bad for it !

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
04/06/2008 20:03

Hi Sylvie



I agree, my comment was extremely generalised and not representative of all French people - apologies to you.

Many countries whio share close territorial boundaries have had disputes i.e France and England. I was bought up with a poor image of the French but have come to admire the way the people stand up for theiir rights not like us Brits. And of course I have met some fantastic French people.



I think Engalnd like France is genearlly pro Hellinism and has a disdain for Turkey. Again this is very generalistic and borne out of misguided prejudism.

cruggs


Joined: 06/04/2008
Posts: 498

Message Posted:
04/06/2008 20:05

com on brien,24001,kan u trenslate yr mesage on 17 as 1 faild engelish an

french at skool.

brian24001


Joined: 23/03/2008
Posts: 606

Message Posted:
04/06/2008 20:09

very good idea

maybe we can eat kangaroo burgers too Aussie



msg 15 - you want the truth?

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
04/06/2008 20:26

Bonjour Sylvie

jai plus des amis francais et jem la vie francais. Je voudrais en autra domocile en france. pertemps une jour.

pardon mon francais.

salo

lesleyd



Joined: 05/06/2007
Posts: 265

Message Posted:
04/06/2008 20:29

Very intersting reading ukturk now what about the (christian club thats another story!!!) can't wait to read about that as well.

sylvie


Joined: 12/03/2008
Posts: 1081

Message Posted:
04/06/2008 20:37

hello pilgrim,



may i correct your french - any way thanks for trying -

j'ai des amis francais et j'aime la vie en france - je voudrai avoir une residence en france - peut -etre, un jour !!! excuse mon francais -



salo is a very bad word - in fact you write it " salaud " i suppose you wanted to say " salut " for "hello " or "au revoir"



je suis ravie d'avoir pu vous écrire quelques mots en francais - j'espère que vous concretiserez votre reve d'avoir une résidence secondaire en france -



france is, of course a very nice country but, believe me cyprus is a beautiful

island - i love the place and the people - my husband is cypriot !!!!

Aussie


Joined: 17/06/2007
Posts: 657

Message Posted:
04/06/2008 20:39

Sorry sSlvie



I hope I didn't cause offence, it was largely in jest.



I have nothing against individual French people who in the main are very nice but only the general way the country itself behaves internationally and projects itself as morally superior. As you rightly point out colonialism generally had a pretty poor record whether British, Belgium French etc.



It makes perfect sense for tourists etc to try to speak French when in France and French speaking countries such as New Caledonia.



My language point is more why use a second European language in my passport in countries which have no connection with France etc when English is by far more widely spoken anyway. Basically all languages should be seen as equal not one given an artifically higher diplomatic status beyond the number of people who speak it fluently.





Aussie

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
04/06/2008 20:51

so we all agree, the French people are great.

Talking of prejudices, I have never yet met an Aussie who is pro pom

sylvie


Joined: 12/03/2008
Posts: 1081

Message Posted:
04/06/2008 21:10

brian, stop drinking efes or what so ever and try to think with your brain -



hamburger c'est anglais - kangaroo as well !!! que connais-tu de la cuisine francaise -

"what do you know of french food " have your fish and chip - et bon appétit !!!!

sylvie


Joined: 12/03/2008
Posts: 1081

Message Posted:
04/06/2008 21:13

to most of you,



i did appreciate the way you correct your posts - i do not want to make any difference between nations but some posts are useless for the forum - unless this forum is only for "english between english" critisizing others - cypriots, french or some others !!!!

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
04/06/2008 21:39

there is a pseudo-practical aspect to anti-turkism and an irrational aspect



also it is not only france, austrian politicians etc have said similar things



the "practical" arguments includes things like:

turkey plus britain have the same population as france plus germany. so

within a few years the present eu "leadership" could find themselves outvoted!

secondly the southern states fear agricultural competition, the northern states industrial competition and a cheaper workforce from a vibrant turkey

implicit within french "anti-turkism" is a grain of anti-britishness ie

such bigots may choose to see turkey as britain's (and america's ?!?)

trojan horse into europe, very appropriate since troy is somewhere in anatolia



the "irrational" arguments include the usual claptrap about cultural dilution and alien ways, we have heard all this before in different contexts

but sharpened by the menacing new world energy order and economic slump



back in the 1950's and 1960's america and europe were positively slavering over a pro-western anti-russian turkey c.f. the james bond film "from russia with love" to take one cultural example

ottoman turkey had been a longtime friend of britain especially as a check to russian expansionism in the balkans, and over persia the "great game"



don't underestimate the success of greek, armenian and greek cypriot propaganda either, turkey and north cyprus must do more in this respect



andre

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
04/06/2008 21:57

merci beucoup

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
04/06/2008 22:09

I must say I found this thread very interesting and informative. Thank you all.

ismet

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
04/06/2008 22:26

I am impressed andre with your knowledge

sylvie


Joined: 12/03/2008
Posts: 1081

Message Posted:
04/06/2008 22:31

MERCI BEAUCOUP -



my english is far from good so it is nice to speak a few word of french !!!! with an english person living in cyprus !!!!

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
04/06/2008 23:01

I think many from the UK have major issues over identity and superiority/ inferiority complex when it comes to foreigners. My experiences of France and the French are generally good and I admire the people for their individuality, culture, style and spirit. I've also served alongside French forces and found them well trained and disciplined, with even junior ranks apparently better educated than many of our own. In my own Scots culture we were brought up to consider the French as old friends and allies against enemies and invaders rather closer to home. Much of our language comes from the French. The behaviour of some UK louts in Europe and British geopolitics in general in recent years makes it frankly an embarrassmant to carry a British passport. When speaking English to a French person I always say: "Je ne suis pas Anglais. Je suis Ecossais." I just don't know where this loathing of the French comes from but it does seem to be a bit of an English problem.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
04/06/2008 23:22

Hi PtePike,



of course, the Scots and French are old allies. Starting back in 1295 both countries got together to stop English expansion plans. Don't blame you, we were pretty aggressive us English.



Mind you we've cooled a bit now. We even have a Scotsman running our country

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
04/06/2008 23:32

Hi ILC,



"We even have a Scotsman running our country."



Keep him there - please! Broon (Big Alec's secret weapon) is the best chance of you guys getting your own parliament and both of us getting our own sovereignty.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
04/06/2008 23:34

yeah you are right PtePike

wackyjim



Joined: 04/06/2007
Posts: 760

Message Posted:
05/06/2008 00:32

Hi Sylvie



si vous voulez causer dans le français je serais ravi de le faire avec vous.





Jim

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
05/06/2008 00:42

guys

i must say after i posted the thread which was a simple question it went down hill a bit with posters messages about the french especially knowing their is a french sister who is a member

the thing is their are many generalisation jokes about most of the big european super countries past and present i.e britain, france, germany, holland and italy but the thing is and some might disagree these countries people are near enough the same, all had their hay day in history terms, their empire which they all say was liberating the selceted country but really it was colonolsiation, their polictics run close with each other and not forgetting their language which all stemed from latin this is ever present in many germanic countries, english, french, dutch and this was ever present in ataturks reforms when forming a new turkish republic he changed the arabic alphabet to a latin french based alphabet and you can see that even in the turkish language where there is a lot of french words also some english, he also introduced the penal code which was italian and the list goes on

so at the end of the day im not for e.u membership nor against e.u status but thing i dont understand how can countries like france, austria, some sections of germany wont accept turkey into the special club because we were all alies one time or the other so it basically down to the religion point which again is double standards becasue they know turkey are a secular country which again was borrowed from who introduced secluar laws switzaland which lead me to belive turkey are not giving enough back handers and they are not rolling around like good puppies for countries like france, germany and mostly the u.k and they cant stand the fact if turkey joins they will feel that turkey will be a strong player in the power chess game i.e army, sea back door to midd east and asia and keep one eye on russia and many other things

so this thread should be renamed whats the big boys of europe got against turkey!!!!!!

sorry to go on once i start i cant stop!!!!!

warm regards

ukturk



p.s i agree what andre is saying i dont really trust the propaganda from greece, south cyprus and armenia



p.p.s lesleyd i already have posted my views on the corrupt freemason new world order christrian club and raised a few eye brows lol will post about it soon all in good time!!! lol lol

Brookie


Joined: 31/05/2008
Posts: 20

Message Posted:
05/06/2008 02:11

Just want to say Erkan Bey, your comments are always useful and interesting and highly deserved as top contributor. Appreciate the history lesson!

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
05/06/2008 02:20

UK Turk Why do you say 'mostly UK' We have always given support to Turkey

joining E.U. My good friend is Professor in Marmara University, Istanbul & her thesis is on Turkey joining E.U. She has been coming to Edinburgh for years &

very grateful to Uni. there for help in her research. But, as she says Turkey will

do well even without E.U. & they are self-sufficient in food & developing quickly

I see big difference in Istanbul from when I worked there in 1987-90 in many ways. Yes, we in Scotland have close relations with France & Turkey.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
05/06/2008 09:02

phyllis,



even though I have myself used the phrase

"we have always given support to turkey" it makes me cringe



britain, one of the world's greatest military powers

and having had an unparalleled influence on the world

produced just about every major invention going

especially if you disregard the russian and american history books

ie radar, football, the germanic-based language, lager louts etc etc

cricket and the concept of fairplay (did I really type that?)

was described by an irish friend as a toothless bulldog

but as far as its influence over the eu is concerned

a blind and mewling three day-old kitten might be a better description

and don't give me that "a common position was agreed" goobledegook

the difficulties turkey is going through over its eu membership application

is a bizarre mirror image of britain's experience:



uk

we don't like the idea so it's *******s to you

ah well it is making you lot richer so perhaps we apply

but now we've lost this and that by joining



turkey

we like the idea even if you say *******s to us

ah well it could make us lot richer so perhaps we apply

but we could lose this and that by joining



andre

sylvie


Joined: 12/03/2008
Posts: 1081

Message Posted:
05/06/2008 09:48

merci wakijim, mais , mon souhait est tout simplement que les personnes de ce forum ne confondent pas la politique actuelle de la france que je désapprouve et les "francais" - cela me met en colère surtout de la part de personnes qui n'ont aucune ouverture d'esprit et restent " très british" dans un pays qui n'est pas le leur - critiquant les chypriotes et meme la politique du pays alors que si l'on veut bouger il faut rester dans son pays et " voter" afin que les choses changent - j'aime chypre, j'aime aussi la france et les gens " intelligents " qui y résident !!!

bonne journée à vous

Lemtich



Joined: 15/02/2007
Posts: 1487

Message Posted:
05/06/2008 10:27

I posted this ditty before on another BB and I thought with all the generalisation about different European countries on this threasd, it might be amusing.



The British are feeling the pinch in relation to recent terrorist threats and have raised their security level from "Miffed" to "Peeved." Soon, though, security levels may be raised yet again to "Irritated" or even "A Bit Cross."

Londoners have not been "A Bit Cross" since the blitz in 1940 when tea supplies all but ran out. Terrorists themselves have been re-categorised from "Tiresome" to "A Bloody Nuisance." The last time the British issued a "Bloody Nuisance" warning level was during the great fire of 1666.



Also, the French government announced yesterday that it has raised its terror alert level from "Run" to "Hide." The only two higher levels in France are "Surrender" and "Collaborate." The rise was precipitated by a recent fire that destroyed France's white flag factory, effectively paralyzing the country's military capability. It's not only the English and French that are on a heightened level of alert.



Italy has increased the alert level from "Shout Loudly and Excitedly" to "Elaborate Military Posturing." Two more levels remain: "Ineffective Combat Operations" and "Change Sides."



The Germans also increased their alert state from "Disdainful Arrogance" to "Dress in Uniform and Sing Marching Songs." They also have two higher levels: "Invade a Neighbour" and "Lose."



Belgians, on the other hand, are all on holiday as usual, and the only threat they are worried about is NATO pulling out of Brussels.



The Spanish are all excited to see their new submarines ready to deploy. These beautifully designed subs have glass bottoms so the new Spanish navy can get a really good look at the old Spanish navy.



The Swiss, as always, have taken the phone off the hook.



Lem

wackyjim



Joined: 04/06/2007
Posts: 760

Message Posted:
05/06/2008 10:37

Sylvie



e vous approuve. Je suis stupéfié quand un sujet comme cela arrive sur ce conseil et ensuite subitement chacun est un expert font alors des commentaires bêtes!!!! J'aime aussi la Chypre et essaie d'arriver là si souvent que possible.



Jim.

gary65


Joined: 15/05/2008
Posts: 65

Message Posted:
05/06/2008 11:35

Maybe the French don't want Turkey in because the United Kingdom and there closest allie the US do

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
05/06/2008 11:54

hi phylay

the reason why i say mostly is because britain do give support to turkey on a indivudual basis but when they get together with their nato, e.u .u.n brothers you dont really hear them vocally when countries like germany, austria , france critazise turkey because they dont want to upset these countries and remember britain is still very much pro greek due to thier old ties with greece dating as far back to the first world war so they dont wont upset their grecian brothers, even in recent times with the cypriot problem remember britain aswell turkey and greece being gurantors did not want to get involved when greece and their terrorists were killing innocent turks and greeks and not forgetting their own british people who were living in cyprus!!!!

you cant just look at the face value you have look under the covers on one hand you cant say we support but on the other hand do nothing about it especially if you are one of the major players, for example britain saying they support northern cyprus having direct flights to north cyprus but thats it, they sit at the top with the u.s on the board on the chicargo convention who have the power to reconise ercan airport as a internatinal airport but still nothing is done this is one of many things concerning turkey and northern cyprus

i do agree turkey does not need the e.u as much as the e.u need turkey but they hate to admit it and turkey has done well up to now without them and will still survive without them like you said you only have to look at istanbul and the financial markets to see there is a lot of foreign investment because of our back door to the middle east markets and asian markets which turkey have very good alies in these countries

so when these e.u contries like germany and france and others say we accept turkey to have special status in the e.u but not have full membership just shows you they are saying we want to use you for your money making potential but we dont accept you as indivduals sods law i say stop dangling the carrot in front of turkey to join the e.u and just come out and say we wont accept you so turkey can carry on with their lives while these eastern european countries that have nothing to offer other than their debit problem are being welcomed with open arms in to the club to sponge off the major e.u countries!!!!

warm regards

ukturk

breezyboy


Joined: 14/05/2007
Posts: 1179

Message Posted:
05/06/2008 11:55

Oh my God. Now UK Turk has bought the Germans into it, this could become the longest running thread on the site! lol

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
05/06/2008 14:20

hi guys

talking about relations between turkey and france, was dealt a blow yesterday when the french national assembly approved a constitutional reform plan that has a clause making holding a referendum compulsory to approve the e.u accession of any country whose population surpasses five percent of the e.u population which is around 500 million people

this move has been viewed as directly been put into place to deal with turkeys assertion in to the e.u and is blantantly discrimnating and this could be the final straw in relations between the two countries and a statment from the turkish foreign ministry read like this

'' It is inevitable that this kind of discriminative approach will harm our bilateral relations and will also have a negative impact on images of Turkey and France in each country as well as on the traditional friendship between the peoples of the two countries''

and the thing which is quite daunting france is due to take over the e.u's presidency in july so they will try to push this through while they are in power to dictate to the other member states

lets see how this pans out in july when they take over but i know this for sure they have to tread very carefully because their are a lot french companies aswell as french people living in turkey they could alienate themselves not forgetting the turks who live in france aswell!!!!

regards

ukturk

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
05/06/2008 14:25

UkTurk I agree with most of what you say. However, some Eastern European

countries have been doing much better than others & developing fast, like Turkey. While the politicians may have favoured Greece in the past, many

ordinary people are moving around & finding out many facts which were not

publicised before. I do remember reading a letter written during The Troubles to my father by a young U.N. soldier which praises the dignity of the Cypriot Turks in the face of disgusting treatment, & hasn't a good word to say for the Greeks, despite all propoganda. I am old enough also to remember Eoka terrorism & a lot of young folk these days know nothing about those times.

sylvie


Joined: 12/03/2008
Posts: 1081

Message Posted:
05/06/2008 14:26

wackyjim,



votre francais n'est pas mauvais du tout !!! quelques fautes de syntaxe mais je vous remercie de faire l'effort d'écrire une autre langue parlée que la votre -



bonne journée à vous

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
05/06/2008 15:14

Hi Sylvie

I live in England and have visited France couple of time and speak a tiny bit, (what I learned at school basically).

But in my experience I find French people generally very helpful and polite even if you speak a couple of words of french and no more you will get a good response. Where as the English people always expect every one else in the world to be able to speak english and most do not bother to learn and language.

The whole thing about what the french have against Turks is political and at goverment level and I do not think is supported by general public.

At the end of the day every individual country is out their for their own interests. Obviously France feels that they have better interests to be against Turkey.

Turkey is probably better off not joining EU in the long run.



Au revoir

wackyjim



Joined: 04/06/2007
Posts: 760

Message Posted:
05/06/2008 15:25

Sylvie



Merci......Perhaps I should stick to English,its long time ago since I was at school and I think it shows!!!!



regards



Jim.

sylvie


Joined: 12/03/2008
Posts: 1081

Message Posted:
05/06/2008 19:59

in life, you have to try, make mistakes that the way to learn - it is the same for languages -



thanks biker - i do agree turkey, do not need france !!!



au revoir

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
06/06/2008 22:34

Msg 51,



Casting up the past like the EOKA/TMT atrocities and indulging in the blame game does nothing but harm and has been the downfall of all Cypriots, as Sir David Hannay pointed out after finishing his tour. It's bad enough when locals do it but when it's a foreigner, perhaps they should be asking themslves if their presence is really required on Aphrodote's Island.

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
06/06/2008 23:15

To whom are you referring PtePike?

gottheyips


Joined: 28/12/2007
Posts: 444

Message Posted:
06/06/2008 23:37

phylray,



agree totally with your comments in message 51, I myself was a young UN soldier served mid 60s and early 70s, seen enough to form an opinion as to who was right and who was wrong.

There was quite clearly to me a dominant wrong doer, the self denial 30 years on is astonishing, reminiscent of Germany after WWII.

It is very easy for those not directly involved or those that have not lost family and friends to comment as per PtePike.

Sir David Hannay may well have made these observations about foreigners but as a soldier (UN) and diplomat could hardly give his real opinion.

Today those so called foreigners are now residents and have every right to their opinions and comments.

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
07/06/2008 01:22

gottheyips



Exactly what I was trying to say, those on the ground who have to carry out

the duties form their own opinions regardless of political propoganda etc.

I was asked to come to N.Cyprus in Nov. '99 & teach in E.MC to replace an

American (nervous breakdown working in Brit. system school) What I saw was

that some of the young students would like to bridge the gap between themselves & the Greek side, there were always the older ones who remembered the awful things, & who can say they should forget. Forgive they

may, but forget is something else. I have to listen to the most prejudiced & ignorant talk sometimes from Brits. who have no idea & are totally biased

to one side, & can say nothing. My friend's cousin was shot in front of his

Scots wife, does anyone think she can forget that? Thanks for your comments

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
07/06/2008 02:40

hi

firstly phylray and whoever else has the right to comment on such things if they have read or learned for themselves and not belived all the propaganda most people take in remember their is always two sides to coin, and thank god their is quite of few foreigners finding out the real facts!!!! this can be a good thing especially for one side of cyprus that does not get heard because they are not reconised



ptepike you say talk of the blame game is the downfall of all cypriots, well nobody is blaming anyone just stating the truth!!! how can you expect cypriots especially turks to just get over it and not blame it on anyone if they are, did the jews just get over it and blame no one, did the african americans not blame anyone

i dont care who this sir david hannay is dont tell me if his family was killed or his friends wifes were raped he would not be talking about in years to come, so how dare he say its bad enough when the locals do it

ukturk

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
07/06/2008 16:37

I can't imagine what it was like during those awful bloody times during the Cyprus troubles. My generation in the UK, up until now have largely and fortuitously not witnessed such atrocities (apart from Northern Ireland, Falkland veterans and victims of terroism etc) so I can't imagine how long I would hold thoughts of vengence, hate and retribution if one of my loved ones was murdered.



Being neutral and largely unaffected, it does seem to me that the blame game doesn't achieve peace. Yes, it has been vitaly important that the world hears and is open the TC side of the storey, but for peace to happen each side has to forgive even though they will still remember many shocking events.

Don't forget that neutral observers can play an important part in reconcialition, as they weren't involved in the events, and they don't hold charged emotions and can stay rational in the process. In my mind this gives them validity, even though their views are often resented.



Even in troubled times certain rare individuals can rise above the injusticies and subvert them to the ultimate goal of peace. They are rare individuals but they do exist. Probably the most famous was Nelson Mandella. He committed himself to truly understanding the mind of the Afrikaner and much more.



Gottheyips reminded us on another posting how Northern Ireland beat the odds. Leaders on both sides may not have forgiven, but they came to realise that the most important goal was peace.



Kristofias seems to be taking some responsability for the GC's but it is early days. I notice yesterday,whilst talking to Gordon Brown he said that they would not discuss the future of the British sovereign bases without TC involvement.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
07/06/2008 16:43

I see the courts in Turkey overuled the AK party on the wearing of head scarves in Turkish Universities.

I have some questions for the group



Is this further evidence of the weakening of the AK party?

Are the wealthy secularists reganing a grip on power?

What is the relationship between the Secularists and the Military? Does one control the other?

Does the military want to maintain it's powerin cyprus? If so does the AK party have little influence to stop them?

What impact does this have on the Cypus issue?

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
07/06/2008 16:47

hi mark

thats the good thing about us turks we are willing to forgive but belive you me we will never forget, we understand and say we was not the only ones who lost land and loved ones and its about time that the south acknowleged that to!!!! without that we can never trully acheive peace whatever the outcome becauase the politics side does not mean nothing its the people who have to accept it because we are the ones who will either live sie by side or completly apart!!!!

just take a look at my new post if mr brown really meant that, why did he sign a new memo saying the oppositte

warm regards

ukturk