Generator advice and KV

LostFound


Joined: 03/08/2009
Posts: 387

Message Posted:
06/02/2010 18:35

Where is the best place to buy a geni close to Kyrenia.

I want to run, oven, central heating, lights, micro, washing machine, electric shower, pump, central heating and cool air con for a boost in the July/Aug, BUT NOT ALL AT ONCE of course, so which size geni would suit?

What price am I looking at?

I dont have any electric whatsoever so it would be used almost constantly and I would need to switch it off manually.

Also is diesel cheaper than petrol.

Does anyone know who would build a soundproof outhouse for it.

henrik



Joined: 01/10/2009
Posts: 314

Message Posted:
06/02/2010 20:07

Oven: 6kW, Water heater shower: 3kW, pump:1kW, air con: 2kW - micro: 1kW. total Peak: 13kW!! (If you run all of these items by mistake at one time) - Lights, cental heating are not so important as they dont take a big part in the total load. so a 15KVA genny would do your job quite good.

From the common diesel gennys with 15KVA I know that they DRINK 3,7l per hour. So runnig this genny 12 hrs a day would result in 44,4liters costing you at a rate of 1,70YTL/liter: 75 YTL a (12hrs) day. So if you buy a 7KVA genny you can say you will spend 40YTl a day for diesel. Without service, maintenance and buying cost of your genny.

run the big genny for 1,5 years and you will have blown out a complete solar system which would be providing you with free electricity for 24hrs . So you need to know how long you are off the grid. If it seems to be longer than one year, a solar investment (even with a credit) is most cost effective for your needs.

regards,

Henrik

hp Energy Consulting & Trad

JohhnyLee


Joined: 25/04/2009
Posts: 2495

Message Posted:
06/02/2010 20:08

LostFound .we have lived with out Elec. for 12 months now, hopfully after parting with another £10 K plus we have our 10 post's up and cables to day, but I won,t bore you with the details.

I Generators are very expensive to run, there is no cheap answer, the bigger the KVA the more fuel, yes diesel is more economical than petrol.

I think ideal would be about 7 ,Diesel if you could get one, this would handle most things But obviously not all at the same time.

We had 4 different Genis at one time, now we are down to 2. we use a 3 kva petrol in the evening wich will do most things, except oven and Air con. but we find it does the job quite well and costs about 12 lira per evening. We have a 22 kva diesel cabinet type very quiete and would run the whole house or even 2 houses, but expensisve to run long term.

It makes you realise that mains elec is not expensive. We ran a 6 kva petrol for about 3 months and that was 5 lira per hour. I can gladly give you lot's more info.

JohhnyLee


Joined: 25/04/2009
Posts: 2495

Message Posted:
06/02/2010 20:17

It is suprising how well you can cope without electric, My wife has now started to learn about different Killowatts on various items, she will ask me if its ok to switch the hair drier, or the iron on , if we are on the 3 kva genni, obviously just in case ive got the water pump on,or somthing else , so we just turn one item off,

Yes it's pain in the butt, but its not life threatning.



But I reckon to live with a generator on constantly you would need a big budget, and of course you would be wasting all that unstored electricity you are producing.



So ideal scenario is battery back up to store it , but you are starting to talk even more money.

letty


Joined: 04/12/2008
Posts: 360

Message Posted:
06/02/2010 20:28

The best long term investment would be a renewable energy source. generators are not at all cheap to run. even a quiet one is noisy. you have the horrible job of filling it with diesel.plus transporting it. horrible due to the smell. a generator big enough would cost you roughly £5000 where as a solar installation will most likely be £20000. can you not look at feeding your house from a neighbour. where are you.

newguy


Joined: 02/12/2009
Posts: 179

Message Posted:
06/02/2010 20:32

lostfound if you have to run a generator why not look into putting a heat recovery package on it chp. for every kw of electricty produced you produce rule of thumb 1.5 kw of heat which is just wasted by running a genny on its own. I was in the combined heat and power business for 10 years and for a small investment on top of the cost of your gen set it could be well worth it

henrik



Joined: 01/10/2009
Posts: 314

Message Posted:
06/02/2010 20:33

I think what you need to know is how LONG you will need the genny.. Runnig it longer than one/two years would make an investion for a solar system a very wise decision as it would save you lots of money in the future - even you would not need a electrical connection and would not be effected from powercuts and electric bills.

Even if you say that ou dont have the cash, imagine paying of a credit as you pay for your generator fuel. It is the same thing. Buying a genny is maybe much cheaper, but each day it runs will make you spendings rise. Buying a solar system may be expensive but using it each day makes it cheaper.

Also there are lots of environmental aspects - instead of having the diesel fumes all around you, you now can lay down in the sun without the smell of pollution.. A battey backup for a genny would make your lights / tv etc run at night without the diesel genny on. good luck with your decision

Regards,

Henrik

hp Energy Consulting & Trade

Berlin, Germany

LostFound


Joined: 03/08/2009
Posts: 387

Message Posted:
07/02/2010 12:43

great advice from everyone, thanks big time. I want to answer some questions asked above.



Henrik

Solar Energy 15,000 to 20,000 pounds

Would your brother let me pay in installments over a period of time.

Also it would be a HUGE chunk out of my savings and Im sure Id have to return to the UK for 3 months in the year to earn money as Im out of work here.

LostFound


Joined: 03/08/2009
Posts: 387

Message Posted:
07/02/2010 12:45

Letty....sorry I cant keep this story short..

Kib tek cut off our builders electric to our site in 2007 (landowner didnt pay his bill) and never will he is a big thief and sold every house without any intention of finishing them off. 3 residents are taking electric from other neighbours on different land (one too far from me and other 2 sharing 1 house and would not want me on it). For 3 years my neighbour let me plug into his electric but decided he didnt want me to do it 3 months ago and I had to move out as my 550 geni packed up. So the answer to your question is no I dont have a neighbour to plug into to.

LostFound


Joined: 03/08/2009
Posts: 387

Message Posted:
07/02/2010 12:50

If I got solar energy and never had to make any more payments (if the site was ever finished) re transformer room etc etc and landowners debt to Kib Tek Im pretty sure the landowner would refuse to give me my kocan...if that time ever came. Another thing to weigh up.



With my 550 geni I was using about 400 lire per month for petrol, so solar energy does seem to be the answer and I worked out it would be 7 years before Id recoup my spendings.



Oh heck why didnt my palm reader tell me these things years ago!

LostFound


Joined: 03/08/2009
Posts: 387

Message Posted:
07/02/2010 17:13

JohhnyLee

Please tell me your story, why you've been without electric for 1 year. Its funny cos there is talk our landowner/builder wants 10k from each of us, to finish the project/builds and I bet that wont include transformer room or electric poles, and I bet they may want more money. Now if I paid 15k for solar energy I would not have to pay anything in the future would I could even connect my own street light. Did you ever consider solar panels for electric? Its true what Henrik says really that the cost of diesel per month (without a finish site date since 2005) can be put towards solar panels and I can stick my fingers up at all of them. What do you think.

JohhnyLee


Joined: 25/04/2009
Posts: 2495

Message Posted:
07/02/2010 22:10

Lostfound I will give you more info. maybe tommorow, sorry only just seen thread and gennys going off soon.



Regards Lee

henrik



Joined: 01/10/2009
Posts: 314

Message Posted:
08/02/2010 00:52

Good evening,



unfortunatelly (or luckily) my brother is not a bank, so giving loans as high as 15 000 STG and more is a bit to heavy for him. Ask him if he can arrange good and low! percentage credits, which will still be cheaper than running your genny. I heard something that he had a few talks with Limassol Koopertaif Bank for Solar loans. Ask him if he can arrange something.



From Germany its hard to be "up to date - in cyprus" as I have also other projects here to take care of. Advise I can allways give.

Good luck.

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
08/02/2010 10:28

Hi Henrik,



Have you ever considered lease/purchase of your off-grid equipment?

Please contact me off-board as I may have something for you.

kibsolar


Joined: 14/09/2008
Posts: 552

Message Posted:
08/02/2010 14:25

Hello,

no, iam not a bank, but my systems are ... best value for money. i just met Lostfound to give advice for a solar system and how to cope with her problems (energy wise)

in general you can say:

1. reduce the energy (electric) needs of your equipment. eg change the electric oven to a gas one, buy a energy A+ fridge....the genny can be smaller sized, possible solar equipment will be much cheaper.....

2. a genny can charge a "battery buffered back up system" for 3-6 hrs per day which runs your house for the remaining 18-21 hrs, of which are 12 night. "big consumers" you use while the genny is on.

3. to this system solar power can be added any time.

4. if you have a pool, whether you are connected to the mains or not, opt for solar pool pumping. it either will reduce your genny running times or it will cut your electric bill.

5. for all "alternative" energy supply, genny, accumulators, solar, whatever: buy quality, otherwise you own 4 gennys one day, see msg 3

kibsolar


Joined: 14/09/2008
Posts: 552

Message Posted:
08/02/2010 14:32

to all who are interested in the "energy question", i recommend a vsit of

http://www.efficient-energy-use.eu/

in english and turkish, "... to encourage the economic development of the Turkish Cypriot community ..."

LostFound


Joined: 03/08/2009
Posts: 387

Message Posted:
08/02/2010 19:43

kibsolar



Have yet another question for you. With the 1,200 solar power from enough sun/light (not using the Geni at all) can you please let me know what items I can use at the same time then please. I have washing machine, micro, oven, pump, electric shower, lights, TV, radio, toaster, central heating. Thanks

kibsolar


Joined: 14/09/2008
Posts: 552

Message Posted:
08/02/2010 21:29

Lostfound

today i gave you a "suggestion of a might be system".

you dont say eg how long you use your tv and what its energy consumption is.

"at the same use" anyhow is not related to the "solar power" (the solar power produces a certain amount of energy in kilowatthours eg per day).

"at the same time use" is related to the "inverter power", meaning "how many KVA are turned from DC power (which is stored in the batteries) to AC power as a peak power ? ( done by the fabolous "Outback" DC/AC inverter i offered you)

please leave this discussion off board, pls contact me via mail or call me.

LostFound


Joined: 03/08/2009
Posts: 387

Message Posted:
08/02/2010 21:55

ok I guess your email address is on the business card you gave me as its not shown on the forum. Sorry, will do.

kibsolar


Joined: 14/09/2008
Posts: 552

Message Posted:
08/02/2010 22:18

yes its on the card, and you can find it in http://www.kibsolar.com, click "contact".

henrik



Joined: 01/10/2009
Posts: 314

Message Posted:
09/02/2010 00:36

http://www.kibsolar.com without the comma - so it takes you directly to the site

LostFound


Joined: 03/08/2009
Posts: 387

Message Posted:
09/02/2010 10:25

JohhnyLee

Hi how you getting on with no electric?

Ive done my homework and I realise solar energy is not necessarily the answer, it doesnt power the whole house, I would still need to use my geni as back up for those items that take a lot of electric, so still Id be spending money on petrol and carting the smelly stuff back to my house. I am going to kibtek again tomorrow to try and talk to a Director and beg once again for electric.

kibsolar


Joined: 14/09/2008
Posts: 552

Message Posted:
09/02/2010 12:02

Lostfound

THIS INFORMATION IS NOT CORRECT!!!! Solar power can run a house! it can run your house!

But if you are limited in budget, you have to reduce your energy needs and/or you must be careful with "all at a time use". Same as JohhnyLee, who runs a smaller geni instead of a big one to save petrol costs....

And as you told me that you own a geni, i suggested to use the geni to charge the battery bank in days of low sunshine and to deal with your "peaks".

Beg for an electric connection and if you get it granted, still pay thousands.... and own --- nothing. All will belong to Kibtek and your builder will say "....thank you very much....".

Of course, in a power cut you start your geni (in the dark) to run your lights.

Solar energy is THE ONLY viable solution for you. And if it is only because you OWN it!! And then you can, see yor own msg 11, "...stick your fingers up at all of them...."

basheer



Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 949

Message Posted:
09/02/2010 12:59

re message 2 if only used during power cuts only for air con tv lights if dark , and internet, fridge

what type generator do you recommend please,as I have thought of buying one for use during powercuts which is connected to the mains to flip over

JohhnyLee


Joined: 25/04/2009
Posts: 2495

Message Posted:
09/02/2010 14:23

Lost found sorry didn,t reply Basically at the moment when Genny is on we tend to make use of that time to do all the normal things you do when you have electric. ( if you get my drift)



So computor time is a bit limited.



You are so right about solar power and all the other forms of electricity, there is no substitue for the real thing.



I didn,t want to start knocking these guys who are trying to make a living from the other sources, but I have seen most of them, and the massisve expense outways any benefits,

henrik



Joined: 01/10/2009
Posts: 314

Message Posted:
09/02/2010 16:47

Just to make it clear. I am one of these guys making a living on that "other sources" but not in cyprus.

The production cost for solar electricity on a 25 years running time is as low as 10 euro cent per kWh in cyprus (grid Feed). This is a fact and no Kibtek or other source can cope with this. For Off Grid systems this is slighlty higher due to the storage. so your "massive" expenses have benefits. It saves you and your pocket lots in the long run. Like puting money in a bank. You get your assets. your savings will be the saved investment cost for electricity connection, the genny, the fuel and your monthly bills. But you need to understand what you want. After that it is basic maths.

Assuming the electricity price will not stay as low as it is today, the buyer of a solar system is even more the winner! So please dont tell me that there is no other substitute for the "real thing". This is simply not true.

Regards,

Henrik

hp Energy Consulting & Trade

Berlin, Germany

kibsolar


Joined: 14/09/2008
Posts: 552

Message Posted:
09/02/2010 18:44

Jlee,

"the real thing" will be more and more supplied from renewables. if not, the real thing will not work soon... why do you think connection costs are going up sooo fast?

answer: environment concerns and running out (= prices up) of fossil sources...

look, we are spezialised in off-grid solutions... and have customers. why? because there arent ANY benefits? dont worry, you dont "knock me", but may i offer you a back up for your computer and a couple of lights for the night? or maybe solar pool pumping?

LostFound


Joined: 03/08/2009
Posts: 387

Message Posted:
10/02/2010 05:03

Yes thanks for all that infor