More properties going under the hammer

cooper


Joined: 23/10/2007
Posts: 3386

Message Posted:
10/06/2010 20:11

Latest from the HBPG - http://www.hbpg-trnc.net/documents/tutuska.html

sloan



Joined: 24/02/2009
Posts: 808

Message Posted:
10/06/2010 20:38

Hi Cooper, this has been posted under the cyprusishome thread, but when I checked the HBPG website it says Sunday, 13th JULY. The 13th July is a Tuesday, so I assume it is this Sunday. Not a lot of time to get the message out and get the support that the HBPG request and that these peple deserve.

natalie


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 323

Message Posted:
10/06/2010 21:02

dear God is there any way we can get the date confirmed, as you say time is short

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
10/06/2010 21:18

Whatever...they just ignore the legitimate protests of tax paying property buying British.



Wake up and smell the coffee This TRNC Government. My advocate has over £10000 in his deposit account which is rightfully yours. Just clarify to your judiciary that "registration" outranks "memorandums" The cash is yours.



Why am I sufferring such stress? How many more like us??



wyn

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
10/06/2010 21:28

I know about this case, I did tell everyone there were at least 3 more coming, this one now appears to be confirmed.



The people who reproted this to HBPG on Tuesday are TC.



Quick summary, they are a grand mother, mother and daughter. First and last actually born here in Cyprus although mother was born in England.



It is an apartment block, from what I remember some people have kocan and others not, do not really understand.



This family are devastated, another case of the Greeks dispossed us now our own people are!!!



So come on you lot, I am happy to do some more digging and stirring but you got to promise that we can get even more people there than last sunday. Not because this time it is TC but to try to stop this rolling programme that is going to hit hundreds very soon.



Be very careful here as you know it is right on the main road and the police will arrest you at the slightest indescretion, Best hang around and some of you try to look pretty!!!!

natalie


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 323

Message Posted:
10/06/2010 21:51

Pleased you are back, so pleased cyprushome, BUT is it this Sunday

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
10/06/2010 22:01

Cyprusishome,



Welcome back David. We are in the UK unfortunatley, but will be with you in spirit.



Good on you all!!



wyn

joandjelly


Joined: 24/02/2008
Posts: 2953

Message Posted:
10/06/2010 22:09

Welcome back David. We will definitely be there if it is this Sunday.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
10/06/2010 22:14

Natalie,



Thanks for your kind words.



Yes it is this sunday 13th June. I will contact Marian tomorrow to ask her to change the web site.



It is very short notice, the people only found out about it on monday this week and I know Marian was chasing around trying to get full confirmation as to what is happening.



Unfortuanatly this is now going to be a regular occurence after the success of Akfinans, oopps sorry am I allowed to say the name!!



I have been advised there are 2 more imminent but no details yet. I sincerely hope that those involved make sure they let Marian know at HBPG and the press is fully briefed. This is the only way we can activate people.



I know there are a lot of detractors saying we are wasting our time, what is the point of getting out of bed etc but this is the attitude that has got us into this mess. If the number that turned out on sunday had turned out at other events 2 years ago the government would have had to listen.



NOW IT MAY BE TOO LATE

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
10/06/2010 22:19

Does anyone do other forums.



I will post on nigel watsons site if someone can spread the word on any others.

sloan



Joined: 24/02/2009
Posts: 808

Message Posted:
10/06/2010 22:37

Should I email Izzet and ask for it to be made a sticky? ONLY JOKING!

cooper


Joined: 23/10/2007
Posts: 3386

Message Posted:
10/06/2010 22:40

I dont think you're be on your sloan asking that )

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
10/06/2010 22:56

Given the family are TC lets hope that the TC community also turn out in large numbers to support them.

dizzycows


Joined: 12/05/2009
Posts: 2736

Message Posted:
10/06/2010 22:58

For us all that are in GB it is heart wrenching to read and not be there to support.....

Blackbird



Joined: 11/08/2009
Posts: 1432

Message Posted:
11/06/2010 01:18

Yes I'm with you on this one dizzycows...let's hope they get all of the support that is required

keithcaley



Joined: 13/06/2008
Posts: 2521

Message Posted:
11/06/2010 07:26

Note that there is a link on the HBPG 'tutuska' page that is supposed to point to the 'Land Registry Notice' but it doesn't appear to work - well not for me anyway!

So don't go thinking that it's YOU doing something wrong...

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
11/06/2010 07:32

david thank god you are back, i cant beleive this again so soon. when will it end x

Teresa


Joined: 21/11/2007
Posts: 1018

Message Posted:
11/06/2010 07:57

Just tried to get onto the HB site for more details but nothing coming up, David you say some people already have their kocans which i would take to mean that there is no mortgage. Please can we be clear on all the facts of this case before everyone starts planning protest meetings. People lose their homes everyday in the UK because they fail to repay loans secured against property, i am not saying this is the case here but we must be sure or we might be accused of just being trouble makers and it will have a bad effect on the genuine cases.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
11/06/2010 08:26

teresa this is not an eviction, this is one of three that are imminent. The notices are usually posted at short notice to avoid problems.



I have told marian about the link and it wil be corrected.



There is a loan from a builder involved and when the link is sorted through marian you can read it.



Marian is not stupid, she does not post anything that is not genuine and thoroughly checked. As I stated earlier she found about it on Tuesday and did not post until yesterday for that reason.



It is short enough notice, do want us to wait until sunday when all the details are known and it is too late!!!!!!

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
11/06/2010 08:30

Last thing.



There is to be no protest, it is just a few people wandering around outside. We are NOT ALLOWED to protest.



Might be a few photos taken and that will be that, do not blow us foreigners out of the water without a fight of some sort.

Teresa


Joined: 21/11/2007
Posts: 1018

Message Posted:
11/06/2010 08:41

David please calm down all i was doing was to advise caution until the facts are known.

cooper


Joined: 23/10/2007
Posts: 3386

Message Posted:
11/06/2010 08:47

David, Teresa says calm down - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39f_vkViOpI

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
11/06/2010 12:18

I have just spoken to Marian about the link from her web site.



It appears that it is OK on her computer but as we all know, try to link to it from elsewhere - zippo. Be assured it is been worked upon.



It is important that you see this page so you see for yourselves, not second hand, who is responsible.



There are 7 apartments in the auction.



Unless there is a last minute change of heart before closing time this afternoon, is it 1 or 2 o'clock local time then the auction will take place.



I am assured the police etc are fully aware, as are the press, tv etc.



So, once again please turn up to let the government know how we feel. It is not an action against builders etc, under TRNC law they have done nothing wrong.



Again, this MUST be peaceful with no signs, banners etc.

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
11/06/2010 12:22

What is the HB link?



Richard

nareik


Joined: 26/01/2009
Posts: 113

Message Posted:
11/06/2010 12:54

David,

I'm delighted that you are back - well done.

It is as we all feared - Akfinans Bank has set the precedent for all the other scavengers.

I can't be there but I hope that anyone who is will come along and support these unfortunate people. It will send out a strong message to the government if expats and local TCs stand together against this injustice.

Good luck to everyone.

Nareik.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
11/06/2010 13:05

Richard,



You know it is HBPG link which is - http://www.hbpg-trnc.net/documents/tutuska.html and shown in msg 1



This link will now have the info wanted, except Marian has done it manually, copied and pasted!!!!



One interesting name is one of the people wanting money from the sale of these poor peoples apartments - an estate agent!

keithcaley



Joined: 13/06/2008
Posts: 2521

Message Posted:
11/06/2010 13:12

Richard,

The link on the HBPG site that isn't working at the moment is so that you can read the Statutory Notice issued by the 'Land Registry' (Tapu ve Kadastro Dairesi)



*** I see that they have now scanned & pasted the actual notice on the page referenced in msg1 : -

http://www.hbpg-trnc.net/documents/tutuska.html

It is in Turkish of course, but they've jotted a couple of bits in English for the likes of you and me...

keithcaley



Joined: 13/06/2008
Posts: 2521

Message Posted:
11/06/2010 13:12

I was a bit slow off the mark there

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
11/06/2010 13:15

Thanks David & Keith. Does anyone know if any of these apartments are owned by TC's or are they all expat owned?



Richard

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
11/06/2010 13:24

Richard,



I believe most are TC owned but I cannot confirm at this stage. One I know is a lady who is of retirment age'ish and was in considerable distress when we were talking to the family..



The lady does not wish to be named at present but is 100% TC.



Information is that all the local press will be there sunday and CT is running a story tomorrow. Also it appears the TC community have begun to believe that we have not been complaing without cause and will be out in force on sunday.



David

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
11/06/2010 13:31

This is tantamount to provoking civil unrest!



Richard

nareik


Joined: 26/01/2009
Posts: 113

Message Posted:
11/06/2010 14:49

If civil unrest is the only way to go.............so be it!

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
11/06/2010 15:32

Not that I'm condoning civil unrest, but history shows that things only seem to get noticed and changed positively when civil unrest takes place. Look at the poll tax riots.



I wonder when the government will ever wake up to the realities of this situation. This countries economy and prospects for investment are being run in to the ground. The sad fact is that hardly anything has been done in the last 4 years to sort out the property problems and economic problems that follow as a result. The TRNC and it's residents are in exactly the same position they were then. It's a national embarassment and national shame.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
11/06/2010 16:02

this case seems strange because I always thought that TCs received their title deeds straight away and would stop mortgages being put on them by builders etc., unless they bought them with a mortgage attached! Could someone enlighten me?

nareik


Joined: 26/01/2009
Posts: 113

Message Posted:
11/06/2010 16:22

Their national airline is bankrupt, their electricity supply cannot cope, their postal system doesn't work, their judicial system is flawed - these are all government controlled (or influenced) activities so why am I not surprised that they are unwilling to sort out the property fiasco.

Cameron has stood up and basically said that the UK is in deep s**t financially and that deficit reduction will cause pain for everyone. I would love to hear this type of straight talking from a TRNC politician - and pigs might fly!

keithcaley



Joined: 13/06/2008
Posts: 2521

Message Posted:
11/06/2010 16:47

malsancak,

As for TC's getting their kochan 'straight away' goes...

Admittedly they don't have to wait to get PTP, but then only a small percentage of the re-possession cases have anything to do with PTP - most are to do with the landowner / builder neglecting to hand over the Kochans, and borrowing money on them.

They can do that just as easily to Cypriots as to Foreign buyers...

Having said that, I am surprised that Cypriots don't follow the UK procedure, and not pay anything until 'completion' - unless of course, they get sucked into the 'stage payment' scenario

I can never understand how I was persuaded to buy a property from a builder who needed MY money to complete the build!

It defies common sense!

Doh!

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
11/06/2010 16:52

malsancak,



this seems to be one of those urban myths as the people involved here are TC



A lot of people talk about double pricing and other scams, in 5 years the only scam I have come across is the buying of our home.



We have always been treated fairly by the cypriot people, one of the reasons we do not wish to move away.

littleme


Joined: 04/07/2009
Posts: 299

Message Posted:
11/06/2010 17:44

David what would we all do without you, your imput is 100% valued.

melbrandy


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 44

Message Posted:
11/06/2010 17:46

At the risk of incurring a general wave of displeasure, may I say that I am confused!. Perhaps somebody could enlighten me.

The last two cases highlighted on this forum, Kulaksis auction and Day's court case ,had background and information. Based on this information I strongly supported both.



This case currently appears to have little published information, apart from the fact that an auction is proposed. I have read the Tapu auction document but am none the wiser. I dont feel that i know enough to either condemn this auction, link it to an unfair legal process or to personally protest at the auction.

This is in no way a slur on any parties involved, merely a request for more information.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
11/06/2010 17:51

melbrandy, I'm in the same situation. I'd like to write an article for NCFP but have no facts apart from the those above. There is no reason why we should be given this information but so far I've not heard any complaint from those whose homes are about to be auctioned, apart from that they are upset.

MarkVPiazza


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 530

Message Posted:
11/06/2010 17:57

We met the affected couple at the HBPG meeting on Tuesday



The builder owes many people money, and a memorandum has been put on his assets



There is no mortgage on the property iself, but a some of his assets are being autioned to pay the debts.



IIRC, there are 6 flats, 4 with kocan, the two without . The 2 flats being auctioned are owned by a retired TC lady and a retired TC (or Turkish) military officer.



Another shameful example of the chaos in the legal, political and financial system in the TRNC



Mark

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
11/06/2010 18:15

I read that a 'Girne Estate Agent' will be invloved in the bidding. Can anyone enlighten us as to the name of this agent?

melbrandy


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 44

Message Posted:
11/06/2010 18:28

I have not read about an estate agent bidding. Surely bidders are not known until they bid.

However, there is an estate agent - Guray from Korinia- stated as having a memorandum on two of the flats, based on the Tapu auction note.

rwilson


Joined: 14/04/2008
Posts: 87

Message Posted:
11/06/2010 18:57

Can memorandums can be placed by a debtor on a builders assets without checking if someone else has prior contractural rights?



If so, this isn't a case where a bank has acted improperly since no mortgage is involved, its a case where the legal system has let down the contractural owners.



... and the TRNC building industry takes another hammering....

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
11/06/2010 19:00

Guy is a London TC who sold me the land I eventually built on, after making sure I had a mortgage free kocan in my name. This was on the insistence of my TC builder who warned me to not do anything until I was the legal owner of the land. Oh, those balmy days of 2002.

Mandy


Joined: 25/10/2009
Posts: 48

Message Posted:
11/06/2010 19:12

Lest we forget...



Banks and others involved in the auction scandal will hope that memories are short and what they did will be forgotten as more auctions happen.



What if we start a factual list in a new thread, stating who they are and what they did, starting with Afinans bank.



I am not suggested we attack anyone, just that we list those involved in auctioning homes and what they have done.

cooper


Joined: 23/10/2007
Posts: 3386

Message Posted:
11/06/2010 19:27

Slightly confused by all this, are there 7 properties up for auction or like Mark says just the two without kocans? maybe someone could clarify by translating the the notice from the Tapu for us.



http://www.hbpg-trnc.net/documents/tutuska.html

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
11/06/2010 20:14

I will try to simplify things.



msg 42 there is no body bidding until sunday, there is no mention of estate agent doing so.



Check the HBPG site as noted above for all the known facts ie there are seven apartments up for auction.



A quick diary.



On monday the residents found out there apartments were to be auctioned on sunday.



On Tuesday one of the families approached Marian Stokes at Pia Bella for help.



On thursday Marian was able to confirm the auction was going ahead.



The Turkish language press have now done lots of talking and printed their comments, that is why there may be a couple of thousand TC there on sunday.



It is expected that CT will publish info tomorrow.



The creditors in this case are 2 people, one being an estate agent. The debtors were associated with the building of the apartments. One of which cannot be found!!!! Through the court process the seven apartments that families have not received kocans will have their places sold to pay the debt.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
11/06/2010 20:20

the aim of asking people to turn up on sunday is not not stop legal process.



What we need to do is try to make the government put on hold the potential further 100 auctions. For them to to see how the cases can be dealt with, with no detriment to the home owners.



Then to draft new legislation to prevent such a scandal happening again.



This is nothing like akfinans where there was a couple of weeks to motivate the troops and to ascertain the full facts.



This time we have 3 days.



I have to be blunt, you either have to accept the facts that have been presented by the families concerned and turn up on sunday. Or not.



I am sorry but that is all the info that is available to myself after talking with Marian Stokes. I know the TC press are running the story and after what I read on monday some of them are really gunning for action.

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
11/06/2010 21:19

I'm not sure about stickies. They do get hits for viewing but additional comments seem to diminish.



Richard

MarkVPiazza


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 530

Message Posted:
11/06/2010 21:29

I believe that thr debtor has other properties that are being auctioned, in addition to the two in the block, one of which is owned by the family we were talking to.

cooper


Joined: 23/10/2007
Posts: 3386

Message Posted:
11/06/2010 21:33

That makes a bit more sense if that's the case Mark.

doddies


Joined: 16/02/2009
Posts: 102

Message Posted:
11/06/2010 23:25

52 posts,......1482 views.....= sticky



Stop the auction....257 posts....7284 views......no sticky?



why?

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
12/06/2010 00:32

Msg 53

It was made a 'sticky' for a couple of days but I think Izzet got warned off. Anyway, my thoughts in Msg 50.



Richard

matula


Joined: 07/07/2008
Posts: 647

Message Posted:
12/06/2010 06:38

Msg 53---my thoughts exactly!

keithr


Joined: 20/08/2008
Posts: 720

Message Posted:
12/06/2010 06:58

Maybe now that the locals are getting shafted as well as the "palefaces",the local elections should be interesting....

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
12/06/2010 07:17

msg 53,



Forget the number of posts.



1500 hits in THREE DAYS that is the important number.



The other thread lasted 3 weeks I believe, so in perspective not bad. people are looking, they do not need to comment just turn up PLEASE on sunday and make the biggest post of all there.



i do understand the issues and although I am not his "best friend" Izzet was probably correct in not making the last one a sticky. I am sure pressure is brought to bear against any form of attack on the government and others in TRNC the outcome would not have been the closure of the thread but a closure of this and possibly other forums.



Our fight has got to be against the system and to try to force the government to put on hold all outstanding such cases and to bring in new legislation asap.



I love living in TRNC and now we have the support of the TC press and most importantly our TC friends we may be able to make progress.

AnthonySmith


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
12/06/2010 09:02

Today's Cyprus Today has written about tomorrow's auction, and talks of two more in July and more, potentially later this year.

But it also states that Prime Minister Kucuk and Finance Minister Tatar are looking into ways of sorting this dreadful mess out. We can but hope.

They say legal experts are looking for loopholes regarding Kulaksiz, but why can't they just overrule the courts? A judicial review?

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
12/06/2010 09:03

I understand that HBPG have already offered legally viable solutions; in fact, a 'panacea in a package' to the previous government, who paid 'lip-service' to their suggestions, but very conveniently for their 'club' of 'legalised racketeers', did absolutely nothing, even culminating in the closure of the property complaints office, which proved utterly ineffectual, anyway.



Perhaps they now believe [with the failure of 'the talks] that the isolation of TRNC is irrevocably sealed and, very conveniently for them, that they can't be held accountable for the lawlessness and violation of human rights that is being allowed to continue?



When they know that the RoC can behave in the same manner [e.g. Leptos vs. O'Hara case + title deeds scandal], one can, regrettably, only come to the conclusion that they feel 'untouchable' and can, therefore, act with complete impunity.



The castigation that has already been heaped on them is like 'water off a duck's back' - let them prove otherwise!

BoTanica


Joined: 22/12/2009
Posts: 714

Message Posted:
12/06/2010 10:03

This situation is really quite worrying, and it seems like now they have had one "successful" auction the floodgates have now opened for even more. Those poor people must be worried sick.

Mandy


Joined: 25/10/2009
Posts: 48

Message Posted:
12/06/2010 11:01

I wouldn't want to be a builder at the moment trying to make an honest living.....



This is destroying the building trade.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
12/06/2010 11:18

just to revisit an earlier theme of what legal people quoted last year - do anything to get your kocan, without your kocan you stand to be stiched up. I am paraphrasing the head of Lefkosa Bar Association.



A little tale I picked up recently - a person went to a bank to get a loan on a property. Based on the dates on subsequently witnessed documents, the builder went to the same bank later the same day and took out another mortgage on the same property!!!! You work it out because we cannot!!



Does not seem to matter about reg of contracts etc you can still be stuffed by someone and although I hate the quote the answer is - KOCAN, KOCAN, KOCAN! Without it the senior law people seem to say you are lost.



iT REALLY IS A SHAME THAT A SMALL NUMER OF CROOKED BUILDERS, ESTATE AGENTS AND BANKERS ARE DESTROYING THIS WONDERFUL LITTLE COUNTRY!!!



Our only weapon is BE THERE TOMORROW, AND LET PEOPLE IN POWER KNOW WHAT WE THINK. Legally and quietly of course.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
12/06/2010 12:03

Do we know the extent of the problem regarding non-issuing of Title deeds? Could people identify on here if they have not got theirs? I have not and am not hopeful i will ever get them due to PTP refusal on pre 74. I know hundreds are in the same boat.This will show the extent of the problem and just how many are at risk. Is there any action people can take who are waiting or being stalled? Can we contact banks and send some sort of standard letter stating that money has been paid in full for the said property and that any memorandum or mortgage taken against the property will be the sole responsibility of the vendor? Will this give any more protection than the present system of having in your contract that you are buying free from all encumbrances and charges? This as we now know has given us no protection and has been ignored. Any suggestions as to how we can move forward with this one. Change will not come from the gov, it will come from the people.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
12/06/2010 12:11

Trouble is, a lot of creditors might now believe there is a chance of the government doing something to stop this situation and that's why there might be a rush to get in quick before it happens.



Cyprusishome, I like that chant - "koçan, koçan, koçan!" and a motto, "no koçan, no money!"

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
12/06/2010 12:26

No kocan no money has to be the way forward.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
12/06/2010 12:59

"No kocan no money has to be the way forward"



Totally agree

Harvey


Joined: 01/10/2007
Posts: 40

Message Posted:
12/06/2010 15:40

Whilst I certainly agree with the above comments and the slogan of 'no kocan no money' and whilst I will certainly be there tomorrow as I was for the last 2 auctions, I would just like everyone to spare a thought for all those thousands like myself who are still waiting for their houses 5 years later. I have had my PTP for 2 years now but because of a dispute between the landowner and builder which, they have been fighting in the courts for the last 4 years, the properties are still a shell. There are 18 properties on one site, 15 on another and 30 on a third. I have sought help from every Government department but to no avail and am still awaiting the outcome of an appeal case hearing which has been regularly adjourned since last October. The time before last was because one of th Judges was abroad and the last time was because 2 of the Judges have retired and we are now awaiting the appointment of 2 more. This is not my case but a scam by the builder who has had around £2.5 mil

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
12/06/2010 16:04

Harvey, I can fully understand just how devastated you must feel. If only yours was a rare case. I'm sure you want to tell the world.



Bradus, for your records, I have been refused PTP on my pre 74 title apartment and being near an army camp (I'm guessing though as have never been given an official reason).



Why do I worry at saying anything remotely negative about the situation in the TRNC in case of repercussions? I am sure I'm not the only person feeling that. Shame.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
12/06/2010 16:24

I agree 100% with last 2 posts.



The auction last sunday and again tomorrow are but the tip of the iceberg.



I would hope that everyone tomorrow bears this in mind and that tomorrow is not the end of any defiance.



Christine and I have been fighting through all the available channels for 3+ years, there are hundreds of us all with similar but different problems. That said, can we PLEASE keep this thread on track of supporting the people tomorrow.



Then on Monday if someone wishes to pick up another thread on a different topic but of equal importance that would benfit us all.



Thans

David

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
12/06/2010 17:42

Hector many people fear the repercussions from saying anything negative about the TRNC, builders, developers and Government. As you know I have had my fair share of criticism just like yourself and many others on here, that have often been referred to as the doom and gloom merchants. People do not like to hear their new homeland criticised and are equally fearful that if they disturb the peace, they will be known as trouble makers which could have a negative affect on their future. How many times have we been warned that we are just guests in this country? Told that it's safe to buy if you just do your homework? Those who fell victim have simply been stupid!

Hardly a reason to sit back and see other peoples lives destroyed? These remarks I feel say far more about those making them and they are never a good reason to sit back and see peoples' lives destroyed.



Concentrate on what is right and what is wrong. What is moral and what is not. Being able to speak your mind comes easy then.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
12/06/2010 17:51

I don't believe we are criticising the TRNC, I personally fully support an independent homeland for Turkish Cypriots, whether it is within or separate from a united Cyprus. I'm just against being ripped off and get irritated if a set of elected people don't prevent this. This is nothing to do with the TRNC, it's to do with groups of people within the TRNC. Even if the current government tried to stop me speaking, it would still be nothing to do with the TRNC except that a number of votes had been cast which gives them the responsibility of running the place. Voters always criticise a government by voting a different one in if they don't like what they do. That's the democratic way, unfortunately no TRNC government seems to think we ex pats are worth a vote, probably in case we waste it.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
12/06/2010 18:15

malsancak,



I hope you have your chanting voice tomorrow to lead us into - NO KOCAN, NO MONEY.



David

luem1


Joined: 29/07/2009
Posts: 109

Message Posted:
12/06/2010 18:23

We were desparate to get our kocan, so we employed the services of a very well respected retired former senior government official.

He advised us from the start:-



" The TC builder will always want to think that he has won "the battle". So, forget about the late completion penalty clauses and so on, and concentrate on what you think is a winning solution for you."



The builder wanted us to pay all his taxes, but our advisor said we would only contribute a fraction (£2000) towards this and reminded them that was in addition to the full price and the waiver of the penalty conditions. He persuaded them that they had indeed won.



They agreed and signed over a share of the kocan representing our share of the estate development.



This was done with the help of our excellent and ruthless advocate.



The answer is to negotiate and not stand at 'daggers drawn'.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
12/06/2010 18:30

luem1, I do believe that is the answer if the builder has got you over a barrel. If you haven't actually bought yet there is another alternative (all together now)

No Kocan, No Money!

Love to start the chant tomorrow David but I doubt you'll hear me from where I'll be.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
12/06/2010 18:40

What's 'No Kocan, No money' in turkish?

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
12/06/2010 19:23

Yok kocan, Yok Para would be my interpretation.



Bradus,



Just a comment on your last msg.



I am as outspoken as anyone and have had my share of "warning shots". This is not the UK, you cannot openly criticise the government here, to do so does risk deportation, or for someone such as myself, no re entry if I leave the country. This is a genuine concern and not a fob off.



Second this and all the forums are closely monitored, the least worrying thing that can happen is for a forum to be shut down. Just start another I suppose. However the known "agitators" again can easily be picked up and dealt with.



Right now is not the time for OTT actions or words, we have a momentum started here I just hope that people will continue onto the next auction or next court case.



There is no reason not to have peaceful action especially with a new chant that will have more effect than any violence, abusive language etc.



David

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
12/06/2010 19:58

Who is asking for violence and abusive language to be used David? If this happened we would have to hang our heads in shame. I am suggesting that we have a united front and that people should not be afraid to voice their opinion or share their experiences, good and bad, of buying in the TRNC.They should feel safe to attend the auction and through silent and peaceful protest show support for the poor people who are losing their homes and displeasure with a system that allows this to happen.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
12/06/2010 20:25

"I am as outspoken as anyone and have had my share of "warning shots". This is not the UK, you cannot openly criticise the government here, to do so does risk deportation, or for someone such as myself, no re entry if I leave the country. This is a genuine concern and not a fob off."



Is it any wonder that people are frightened to speak out?

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
12/06/2010 20:26

"Hi folks,

Thank you to those who came to support us last Sunday. Just having you there meant so much to us all.

Now, if you can come in the same numbers tomorrow I know your presence will mean so much to the poor people about to have their homes taken to pay the debt of others.

I promise to behave, no love pats this week, on second thoughts maybe I shouldn't make promises I might not be able to keep. I certainly won't be snogging anyone.

I know some of my neighbours will be there, but I am sure you appreciate what a week we've had and if some do not make it, it isn't because they don't care.

See you tomorrow

PAULINE READ

Kulaksiz 5 now known as K5 (I am a Dalek)"

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
12/06/2010 20:35

Bradus,



nobody is proposing anything other than peace & love, that is the way my phrasing was supposed to be, ie it is a far better way than the other sort............... oh whatever



So tomorrow it has to be kaftans and flowers in the hair. Might be too many police wanting a share of the wacky baccy so best leave it at home.



The best bit of tomorrow for all of us will be if the Cypriots turn out in the numbers promised yesterday, please pray to who or whatever your god/s might be that it does not rain.



David

natalie


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 323

Message Posted:
12/06/2010 21:41

Good on your cyprushome, we will be there 'yok kocan, yok para', sadly a bit too late for many, we will bring about change!!!

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
12/06/2010 21:59

david you have brought out a new slogan, like it better in english but the meaning is the same. I cant beleive this and more to come. We are mr robbs victims. wish all this was in place then, however good luck to all tomorrow. im just sorry i cant get there but i have to work now for us living here xxxx

nilmoney


Joined: 29/12/2008
Posts: 122

Message Posted:
12/06/2010 22:43

First Akfinans Bank now this I fear this is just the begining folks.



It just get worse and worse who would want to buy/build in this current climate, who can you trust



Hark i hear " you must do your homework"



sorry we cannot be there to offer support though short of a mass demonstration by everyone, and only then will this Goverment listen & act before the whole industry goes down the tubes

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
12/06/2010 22:45

Very odd that the advice is 'homework' when TC's themselves are being shafted!



Richard

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
12/06/2010 23:15

Brinsley,



Cynical to the end!!!!!!



OK, not quite. I know you are aware from paradise for a while, I hope you will continue to harrass is all on c44 while away.



As for the rest, I am going up the wooden hill. No I am not it is a bungalow, fool!!!!!!!!



A last appeal before I retire though. IF YOU HAVE BEEN WAVERING, STOP NOW. YOU MUST ARRIVE AT THE AREA IN FRONT OF GIRNE COURT TOMORROW (SUNDAY) AROUND 9.30 am. IF YOU CAN STAY UNTIL 12.00 GREAT, IF NOT ANY TIME YOU CAN SPARE TO KEEP UP THE NUMBERS.



Just think, after the end of the auction at 12.00 you can then retire to one of the many hostelries for a shandy and sunday lunch.



You lot got me going again a couple of days ago by your many kind words, all I ask is for YOU to turn out tomorrow.



We can make a difference but only by a show of numbers and an appropriate show of defience.



Good night.

David

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
12/06/2010 23:26

I hope there's a good turn-out.

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
12/06/2010 23:36

David

You'll need more than a shandy after noon tomorrow! I'll keep on posting unless banned! Plenty of wooden bungalows for sale in NZ! Good luck and keep up the good work!



Richard

wanderer


Joined: 05/02/2009
Posts: 1653

Message Posted:
13/06/2010 06:50

British press has the news on K5 front page of Britain's Largest regional paper

http://www.expressandstar.com/news/2010/06/13/dream-holiday-home-nightmare-for-couple/



The Nationals will follow

joandjelly


Joined: 24/02/2008
Posts: 2953

Message Posted:
13/06/2010 09:36

Can anyone please confirm that this auction is going ahead. I am asking because my husband was speaking to a TC friend early this morning and he said it was on the front of Kibris that the government has intervened.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
13/06/2010 10:03

could be a trick to stop people turning up

wanderer


Joined: 05/02/2009
Posts: 1653

Message Posted:
13/06/2010 10:15

http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2010/06/13/akfinan-bank-north-cyprus-property-auction-now-in-uk-newspapers/



A bit more detail from Pauline

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
13/06/2010 11:54

As this auction is to take at the Cafe opposite the Law Courts, where many of the advocates have their offices, can we expect them to take time out to join this protest over the unfairness of Property Title legislation in The TRNC?



A show of gowns and wigs could well have an impact on This Government.



The Advocates are telling us that the laws are unfair(when we are paying their bills) NOW would be a good time to show some solidarity with the people, who keep them in business!



Guess we should not hold our breath!!



wynyardman

keithcaley



Joined: 13/06/2008
Posts: 2521

Message Posted:
13/06/2010 12:12

Biggish crowd, not as many as last week, plenty of TC's

There appeared to be one abortive attempt to place a bid, but the chap apparently decided against it.

At 11:38, the auctioneer said that if no one was going to make a bid, he would declare the auction closed.

he asked twice if threre was anyone present wanting to make a bid - resounding shouts of NO! - and then declared the auction closed.

What will happen now? - You will have to ask someone else

I'll post some pictures as soon as I can upload them.

keithcaley



Joined: 13/06/2008
Posts: 2521

Message Posted:
13/06/2010 12:14

John,

Solidarity? - Fat chance!

Akan Gurkan was there representing one of the debtors!

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
13/06/2010 14:51

from what I remember, possibly from HBPG, the properties will be re-auctioned but with a reduced reserve. Again,this is just a vague memory, the reserve decreases each time an auction brings no bidders? Anyone remember where this information comes from?

Looks like Kibris was wrong about government intervention.

ricooper123


Joined: 14/04/2009
Posts: 75

Message Posted:
13/06/2010 15:05

I have just returned from the auction,and to say I am discusted is putting it mildly.The turnout of expats or none turnout was a disgrace.If people cannot be bothered to get up off their fat backsides and support these people in their hour of need.Who knows it could be your turn next?????????

nilmoney


Joined: 29/12/2008
Posts: 122

Message Posted:
13/06/2010 15:12

refe msg 96 well said

keithcaley



Joined: 13/06/2008
Posts: 2521

Message Posted:
13/06/2010 15:13

A few pictures, sorry but I'm having upload problems : -

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4032/4696055936_584f87937b_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4010/4696055928_89e099b542_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4042/4696055926_0a30698cf5_b.jpg

sloan



Joined: 24/02/2009
Posts: 808

Message Posted:
13/06/2010 15:37

Totally agree with msg 96. This movement should be gaining strength, not losing strength after last Sunday's fiasco in Karsiyaka. These were TCs who were being shafted by their own. I personally witnessed a lady with two babies being reduced to tears by the situation she found herself in, and one of the TC ladies being physically sick behind a car because of the stress that this had put her under. We are talking about people's lives here, both ex-pat and TC. We need to be out there and supporting!!!!

joandjelly


Joined: 24/02/2008
Posts: 2953

Message Posted:
13/06/2010 16:01

Well said Sheila and msg 96. One gentleman who's home was being auctioned today told us that this was the first home he had been able to afford to buy at the age of 63. He is now 68 years old and stands to lose it. It's disgraceful. The Kulaksiz 5 residents were there today and we spoke to some people who are just here on holiday and read about it in Cyprus Today yesterday. If they could take time out to support these people then I'm sure those of us that live here could put ourselves out for a couple of hours on a Sunday morning. What a pity more did not.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
13/06/2010 16:14

The creditor in this case has apparently withdrawn from the auction but under law now has 3 months to negotiate with owners etc.



I am so sad to agree with posters above and with another thread started.



THE TURN OUT WAS PATHETIC.



We know there are well over 1,000 families with the threat of auction hanging over them. Granted some may not be here in TRNC. There are also several thousand with problems of varying degrees for which we want the powers that be to consider the implications.



Right now, I think most of us that attended today and last sunday just hope that a couple of pigeons and the odd gecko turn out to help the next whinger that pleads for help.



Me I no longer give a fig about you. I have my own problems, I tried but obviously somebody better than me is needed to motivate the cabbages and mushrooms.



QUITE FRANKLY ANYONE WHO DID NOT TURN OUT TODAY, UNLESS THEY WERE BURYING MOTHER OF BEING DEAD FOR TAX PURPOSES SHOULD HANG THERE HEADS IN SHAME.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
13/06/2010 16:20

David,



I am so sorry. Your campaign deserved much better.



john

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
13/06/2010 16:23

MR Denktash said he had spoken to the President and this could not happen again.



Well it has. What exactly did he mean??



wyn

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
13/06/2010 18:21

How many expats and TC's know they have property problems?



Certainly at least 800% more than turned out.



So, for you 800% + who didn't show today - then you dserve what you get - and don't expect your [expensive] advocate to sort out your problems for you, because if they had any inclination to do so [i.e. demonstrate that they have the slightest 'duty of care' towards their clients], they would have grouped together and shown support with the few of us who did bother to turn up.



I take my hat off to Mr. Mike Watkins-Jones - an innocent victim of the K5 scandal, and at 87 years of age, he was one of the first to appear this morning.



That is what I call 'true Brit grit'!

nareik


Joined: 26/01/2009
Posts: 113

Message Posted:
13/06/2010 19:45

I am saddened and appalled at the low turnout. If I were in TRNC at present, I would most certainly turn up to support these poor unfortunate people. I can't for the life of me figure out why the vast majority of expats will not put themselves out for the most worthy of causes. It's not as if they are being asked to financially support this cause - similar no doubt to the Cyprus44 appeal for funds: 180 donors from 8,000 plus members.

It makes my blood boil!!



David, well done and congratulations to you for your tremendous efforts. I do hope that you won't throw in the towel, though I fully understand your frustration with the lack of support.



"NO KOCAN, NO MONEY"

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
13/06/2010 19:55

Thanks nareik.



I got to say my frustration is for all those that turned out today and most of them last week and it is especially annoying when quite a number of them have few if any problems, plus the couple who came and they are on holiday.



Those sat at home reading this should hang their heads in shame.

nilmoney


Joined: 29/12/2008
Posts: 122

Message Posted:
13/06/2010 20:10

YES we too are totally disgusted with the lack of support from those who are out in the trnc.

Makes my blood boil too nareik!

Lets hope this is not the case "I'm all right can't be bothered" got to get my hair done! attitude

Or something as trivial as that.



Having said that could it be lack of communication not everyone is on the net.

Maybe not all knew about this latest case

Maybe a leaflet campaign handed out to all watering holes/Supermarkets, when the next auction is due!



Also David I would like to reiterate well done and congratulations to you for your tremendous efforts. I also hope that you won't throw in the towel, though I fully understand your frustration with the lack of support.





Don't let the B!!!!!s get you down



Rant over.



Still musn't grumble!



nilmoney

Mandy


Joined: 25/10/2009
Posts: 48

Message Posted:
14/06/2010 22:11

There was a mention at one point of a fund being set up to support those owners under threat.



Would that fund pay for leaflets and posters to be printed?

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
15/06/2010 09:43

As far as I am aware there is no fund and nofacility to do so.



The problem with leaflet drops or similar will probably result in arrest.



Right now a friend of the "protesters" has spent time translating the comments from yesterday (monday) cypriot newspapers and it makes very worrying reading, for the government.



Over the weekend the tv stations have run what seems back to back progrmas with phone ins etc. Plus friday, saturday and sunday papers laying into the powrs that be. Then yesterday, just for one - Yeni Duzen's fron page banner was interpreted - "TRADGEDY".



For those criticising the TC not turning out, believe me they did not need to with the press coverage.



Please bear with us, a summary will turn up of the press, we only saw 3 of the dailes yesterday and they all had fron page plus severl more.

ronnie1940


Joined: 13/10/2008
Posts: 26

Message Posted:
15/06/2010 10:53

having read all the comments regarding the numbers turning out on Sunday I agree that it was disappointing compared with the week before, myself and my brother(who is on holiday) attended and thought that although numbers were small there was a lot gained on Sunday. The gentleman that was threatened with eviction made a very dignified series of speeches and we thought that the turkish cypriot man that did the interpretations was brilliant, all morning he campaigned and was interviewed no end of times on camera, he was also very involved at K5. We spoke to Pauline, Mike, Bob and a young lad who was looking after his mums interests on K5 and the mood seemed more upbeat than I thought it would be. I would have liked to have a word with C I H but didn't know who he was. We shall keep attending the auctions in support (one of them soon could be ours) and are confident and hopeful that the support will grow, it needs to.

Ronnie 1940

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
15/06/2010 11:35

Please check out my latest posted thread - another auction in Esentepe, sunday 4th July.



I have requested a sticky for that one.



ronnie1940, i can usually be found in the background somewhere, out of the way. If you ask, a lot of the folk at these things do know me, cos me and other half have attended that many over the 4 years we have been here. Or if you have problems, go to HBPG at Pia bella on Tuesday afternnon and I am usually hanging around there making a nuisance of myself.



David

TJinthesun



Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 40

Message Posted:
15/06/2010 12:17

All,



I think we should perhaps dwell a little more on the positive achievemnets of the few who have turned out. Stopped auction, coverage in TC/Turkish news papers, coverage in the UK, appearnce of Denktash - the father of the TRNC.......etc.



The over abundance of notes above about "poor" turnout detracts from the task in hand, and could give the impression to a casual observer that this is a "fringe" activity at best.

To those of you who where there and continue to move the cause forward well done and thank you from a UK based supporter.

TJinthesun



Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 40

Message Posted:
15/06/2010 12:18

Continued



Note 92 re our legal friends

"A show of gowns and wigs could well have an impact on This Government. The Advocates are telling us that the laws are unfair(when we are paying their bills) NOW would be a good time to show some solidarity with the people, who keep them in business!"

is interesting.... Has anybody asked their Advocat?



I will certainly ask mine......... Has anyone got concrete eveidence of the advocat's expressing the opinion that this law is unfair? I would like to quote it.....!

TJinthesun



Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 40

Message Posted:
17/06/2010 17:28

RE 92. I assume not then....!