Property Ownership TRNC

Nunu1


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 536

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 13:45

The Specific Performance Law, Kocan registration ETC.................Is there any progress on this Forum People? Does The Lady from the British Residents association I think Her name is Marion Stokes? Have any answers?



I understand She has had meetings with Mr Talat? I think we are up to 83 signitures at the moment........which is not great! We need several thousand to make an impression.



I just dont understand why such a fairly straight forward process (Kocan)Ownership can take up to two years!!!!!????



It would be in Mr Talats interest to make this issue a priority, it would also help boost the confidence and economy with regards to property sales in TRNC.



nunu1

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 14:00

Nunu1

I don't agree that the speeding up of the Kocan ownership process will 'boost the confidence and economy with regard to property sales in the TRNC'

There are far too many other negative issues that have made people lose confidence in buying property here.

The constant moving of the goalposts with regard to different laws, the huge amount of people that have been 'conned' and lost fortunes, are just two to begin with.

Unhappy Buyer


Joined: 26/03/2008
Posts: 17

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 14:05

Nunu1 - we have just passed the 5 years mark and no sign of a kocan! Lost files in the ministry, incompetent and uncaring 'lawyers' and I could go on but I'm bored with it now!

Nunu1


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 536

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 14:11

No1Doyen, You are entitled to your opinion and Yes there have been a few scams and people have lost money, this is unnacceptable.



However, like i said if the process was speeded up and controlled properly this would have a positive impact on sales and confidence in the market.



Many other countries I can think of are even worse with their property laws. SPAIN Comes to mind where they can bulldoze your property at the drop of a hot potato and there is no recompense or anything you can do!!!!!



nunu1

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 14:34

Most people we know having given up worrying about the Kocan. It is only a bit of paper after all.



I agree with no1doyen. It is a trivial matter in the whole scheme of things, like getting your house built, water, electric etc.



Fight to sort the corruption, cheating, thieving etc and maybe things will improve. Already said, who really cares about that A4 flimsy bit of paper.

ROBnJO


Joined: 30/06/2008
Posts: 1289

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 15:20

from the 'forgery' thread by Doyen1



"There was a program on tv last night showing a chap in Southall who can forge anything. Government Documents, Driving Licences, Passports (any country)."





He will probably 'dissapear' to NC and start a new career forging Kocans. ;-(

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 15:37

You could be right Rob.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 15:50

Nunu1.



The Specific Performance Law ammendment petition is being run by Sibel and Ismet. It is supported by Marion Stokes and The HPBG. It would help where people go to court, as the court could then grant them their deeds .Several hundred have so far signed it. More are needed.



Getting your Kocan is not possible until you have you PTP anyway, and that is down to the Government.



You can see from the above postings the general level of apathy that has been generated

by the whole situation, and it is going to take a Government initiative to put matters right.



First we need to know how Mr Talat and Mr Christophias decide how they are going to treat any official documentation issued by The TRNC which is not internationally recognised.



wyn

ROBnJO


Joined: 30/06/2008
Posts: 1289

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 17:22

wyn



Sadly, apathy is endemic in most people until something actually effects them directly. It could be NHS drug availability, animal cruelty, parking fines, tortoises,... whatever.



I am a newbie, but have already seen that you have certain property problems, I sympathise and have signed the petition.



As much as any of us try to help by signing petitions or giving words of support, at the end of the day most people will not be concerned if it does not concern them.



A few months ago I was on a tube platform in London when almost in front of me there was a 'jumper', who died.



Most of the comments from passengers were along the lines of ' the selfish bas**ard, I'm going to be late for my meeting' etc, etc.



I can't wait to move out to NC, politics, beauracracy, warts an all!!

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 17:32

Have to disagree Cyprusishome,

Of all the documents ,it is the only one that says you own the property,up until you have the deeds in your name, you are living in someone elses property.

On the contrary ,it does have an effect on the trnc property market as with all the bad publicity on the internet, I doubt very much if many buyers will pay for a property these days without actually knowing when, or even if,they will get to own it.When I tell anyone, initial reaction is one of disbelief that anyone would be so careless with life savings.

ROBnJO


Joined: 30/06/2008
Posts: 1289

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 18:01

girne29



From recent observation I doubt most purchasers of properties in NC have even the vaguest idea what a Kocan is! They come over on inspection fights, have a lovely couple of days being ferried from site to site, taken for a lovely lunch around the harbour and a swim and supper at their hotel.

I doubt many of them even realise there may be no 'mains' water, gas, phone, post, or electric,..... or sewerage! When it says put your toilet paper in the bin, not the toilet, they would probably ignore it!



It's the same in the UK,... buyers mostly accept what their Agents/builders tell them.



We're all basically suckers! ;-(



p.s. Hopefully except me! I was an Estate Agent years ago. ;-)

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 18:11

The view of many now is that why should this government care about, at most a couple of thousand foreigners when they have an election looming.



None of those foreigners is eligible to vote so why worry about them.



Yes, you may use the same old stuff about money coming into the country but is already well proven that this government has little interest in tourism, foreign investment, other than where back handers will be involved, etc.



No we are not sitting back, as a couple have implied we spend every hour of every day fighting, worrying arguing etc trying to ensure we get the building finished. It wrecks your life, your health and your marriage so some of you people who have not even got here yet shut up until you do and then criticise the lack of commitment.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 18:16

RobnJo,



I was in the TRNC last week, and not only did I have a wonderful time, I believe my property issues have been satisfactorily resolved. I shall follow the very wise advise of brabus, and not sing the praises of my developer, until I get my Kocan. When and if that day arrives I will be more than pleased to comment on the actuality.



Regrettably some peoples "eyes do glaze over" when faced with a series of difficulties that they have to surmount, and in The TRNC there are sadly many, in the construction and property sector. Much depends on the political settlement, and the legitimacy given to "TRNC title". Until we know the status of that, none of us can feel secure with our purchases.



At that point, and once we have our Kocans, which of course then would be an extremely valuable documect, then we can all sleep soundly.



Like yourself, I am very fond of the TRNC, and I am drawn to the warmth of the Turkish people, and I wish you and your family well on your proposed move.



wyn

ROBnJO


Joined: 30/06/2008
Posts: 1289

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 18:28

wyn



We've already paid all our hard earned (pension fund) and bought a finished property. (well, almost finished apart from snagging!). Tenants are in at present, but so many things are unknowns for the future.



I still worry that even if I end up demonstrating in Brussels waving my Kocan in hand, I might still be in dodgy territory!



But hey! You pays your money,... you takes your choice! ,... and where better to do that than NC!

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 18:58

just dont see why Govt will not address problem.How do they gain from people having to wait years for deeds as opposed to making law that requires deeds to be handed over on completion of contract.?Dont get it!Please someone explain.



cyprusishome ,agree 100% about govt but that also doesn't make sense,surely the business community must be getting worried and put some pressure on.I know we dont vote but those that do will be voting on the same issues as anywhere else and that usually revolves round the economy and the future for family,and most will see that encouraging investment and tourism rather than the opposite, is benificial.The total reliance on Turkey for finance must worry many business men/women.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 19:12

agree with CIS msge 12 and Wyn msge 8



Talats priority is the cyprus solution. Kocans may not even exist if a solution is found.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 19:14

Last point that most probably do not even know.



You DO NOT NEED YOUR KOCAN TO SELL!!!!!!



Know 3 people already done it, one even sold with tax commitments unpaid. So again the kocan is JUST A BIT OF PAPER!!!!!

Nunu1


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 536

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 19:22

Interesting thread Ive started! And interesting that you can sell without having the Kocan!....................Quite worrying really the kocan as I see it is the equivalent to a Title deed that you would receive on a UK property once you have paid your mortgage in full?

Most people in UK probably have never seen their deeds as they are usually held I would imagine by the mortgage company or their appointed Lawyers.



So again worrying that property is changing hands in TRNC without Kocan`s being exchanged!



nunu1

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 19:27

Unfortunately when people buy here, a lot of the time they think their lawyer is the same as in the UK, but this frequently isn't the case and they are not acting in their clients best interests.



There are thousands of people out their who haven't got their title deeds and this law affects all of them. Unless you have your kocan you do not own the property. This means many people have paid hundreds of thousands of pounds of their life savings and potentially they may never actually own it. If there is a mortgage on the land and the vendor reneges on this, your property could be put up for auction and sold. If either you or you spouse dies or your vendor dies and you don't have the kocan, this creates many more problems. You may never be able to sell your property should you wish to. You may be subject to threats or demands for more money from you vendor.



I don't know how to put it any more simply: if the specific performance law is not changed to allow buyers to sue their developer for their title deeds you may never own the property you have paid for in good faith. It's in everyones best interests to sign it and it only takes 2 mins of your time.



I wouldn't recommend anyone to buy off plan, instead buy a resale property. I would also recommend you wait foryour permission to purchase before you buy. If you can't wait then withhold a large amount of money until the kocan is transferred. If the vendor isn't willing to do this then walk away.



Please sign the petition at: http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/petitioncyprus/index.html



Sibel

rtddci


Joined: 29/12/2007
Posts: 842

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 19:42

In the UK most property is 'Registered land' and the ownership title and any incumbrances i.e. mortgages, are recorded at the Land Registry. For a small fee you can check who owns what via the internet. See



http://www.landsearch.net/landregistry/?gclid=CKKpgumtx5QCFQvilAodYiqTjw



The days of title deeds are over except for the small percentage of land still unregistered (which will have to be registered when it changes hands).



Basically whatever the Land Registry computer says as to who owns a property etc. is gospel. The TRNC should take note.

rtddci


Joined: 29/12/2007
Posts: 842

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 19:51

I agree with the comments about the dangers of buying off plan. You only have to look at the latest grief in Spain to see what is likely to happen in the TRNC.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/2304401/Britons-face-losing-everything-as-Spanish-construction-industry-goes-into-meltdown.html

Nunu1


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 536

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 19:57

I personally would never buy a property in Spain.....In fact I would not have a property for free there! I dont like the country, What they do to Bulls, their beer or their food!



Sorry Espania not for me!



nunu1

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 20:45

Feel that a kocan is worth much more than a bit of paper. Builders seem to treasure them so much they certainly are not viewing them as a bit of paper!Yes I agree that you can sell, even without your kocan, but people are wising up to the situation with all the publicity and are more inclined to look for properties for sale that already have their kocans. The ones without make prospective purchasers nervous and wonder why the owners have not got their kocan. This then provokes concern and suspicion. If there is a settlement I suspect title deeds will be needed for necessary evidence of purchase. I for one am reluctant to dismiss the need to get your kocan as lightly as some.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 20:52

Wyn, good news to hear that your problems appear sorted. Must be a weight of your mind? Did you price your palm trees and other plants? You'll have to cut down on the Effes if you are going to spend so much on your garden!!! Didn't know you were in the TRNC otherwise I would have popped in and seen you and even taken you round the many garden centres we visited.

Linus


Joined: 04/05/2008
Posts: 281

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 21:47

Anybody who has purchased in the TRNC with a decent lawyer will have been told the goverment official line for non Turkish Cypriots buying property. That is there is a small risk you may be refused your PTP. Because of the time it takes to get this through most people can't wait if they want o purchase their property at the right price but doing so you take the risk. Probably the best way to get the goverment to act if foreigners stopped purchasing full stop and vote with their feet. Most people take the risk because they possibly believe it wont happen to them but more so because of the price



I purchased a similar property in Spain 6 years ago and even then it was 25% more expensive than this one.

We all have a choice!

Hilltop



Joined: 28/04/2008
Posts: 636

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 22:07

We all need to ask ourselves why deeds are as rare as rocking horse s**t?

Do the Government ever intend to issue Kocans to the bulk of "foreigners"?

Or..... in the event of a settlement....... will they look after their own first?



We make a nice bargaining chip....and we don't vote!!

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 23:16

Hlltop,



Your posting certainly does much for the sale of Effes and antidepressants.



Cheers,



wyn

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 23:24

Bradus,



Where have you been? I quoted your wise counsel today.

If I had known you were in the TRNC last week, I would have beat a path to your door.

I invited all board members to The Ship for a drink.



Sue, I am over with The mem sahib on 24/9 (that is if we can get her some parole) Put it

in your diary. It looks as if I have resolved our differences with the builder. We are promised posession on that date. Staying at the Ship.



Take care,



Wyn

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 23:34

Will just miss you Wyn,

going on 7th September for 17 days. Shame would love to have met up.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 23:51

Been in TRNC. Will miss you by 2 days on next visit to TRNC. Pity as we are also out the same time as Pilgrim next visit so we could have all met up in your local The Ship. Never mind we all await the house warming invitations.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 23:53

Thanks brabus,



Miss me! That would be nice! She who shall be obeyed, didnt when I was in the TRNC.



Oh well cest la vie! Next time maybe



wyn