Why won't North Cyprus take the bait?

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
24/07/2010 18:28

Just been reading that Christofias has offered to open the port of Famagusta so that Northern Cyprus can trade directly. In return he wants Varosha, but Eroglu has refused point blank.Why is this.

Paul.

wanderer


Joined: 05/02/2009
Posts: 1653

Message Posted:
24/07/2010 20:03

Can you imagine EU control for Famagusta Port. which was the other hook in the deal

For EU read local EU government and your only container post is gone and your left with a ferry port Girni

"Beware of Greeks Bearing Gifts"

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
24/07/2010 20:56

newlad,



What does open mean?

Famagusta port is already open.

Ferries sail in/out and containerships dock there.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
24/07/2010 20:58

paul I'm surprised at you!



"taking the bait" is I am reliably informed a fishing technique

where the stupid creatures think they will get some food for doing little or nothing

but as is well known, there is really no such thing as a free lunch



I have argued in the past that if there was any seriousness to the current talks,

meaty partial agreements could figure in the process:

I'd imagine a deal might be done on varosha in exchange for lifting the illegal isolations



having the eu in command at famagusta port is not only a serious breach of trnc sovereignty,

but would confer on famagusta a "europeanised" status as a political bonus for south cyprus



the palestinians were offered a jerusalem with "internationalised" status by the un in 1947

but much to their later cost rejected this plus the greener half of palestine, quite out of hand



for the trnc to accept a "europeanised" famagusta plus half of cyprus no-strings-attached,

could be an equally attractive offer

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
25/07/2010 01:34

What about handing over Varosha,

Paul.

kavenkoy


Joined: 10/04/2008
Posts: 1787

Message Posted:
25/07/2010 07:48

"What about handing over Varosha,"



Paul.





thats the bargaining chip paul.....they want it back (for greed?) but not to have a shared cyprus and all be equal .



think they will allready know which way they are going ,well after 40 meetings they must have some idea? longest divorce in history ,now they need to agree financial settlement .



all these chaps putting pavements in and tarmacing roads frantically ,like they are heading for a deadline may have more idea of timings



kav

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
25/07/2010 08:00

Without recognition as a state the TC's are just a community - anyone know the EU law on political conflict within an EU state? Turkey will have no say as they are outside the EU. The GC's will act first, through control of the central government, and argue about it afterwards. Do I smell a second Akritas plan?







Patientia est a donum superum

kavenkoy


Joined: 10/04/2008
Posts: 1787

Message Posted:
25/07/2010 08:08

try this one paul



http://www.cyprus-mail.com/cyprus/christofias-proposals-not-serious/20100725



kav

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
25/07/2010 10:34

As I have said before, never mind Greeks bearing gifts, just mind Greeks!

Geoff

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
25/07/2010 21:36

paul,



well what about "handing over" varosha? but whatever would our side then get in return?

...perhaps a punch on the nose thinly-disguised as eu control of trnc famagusta:

does such a trade stll seem so very seductive to you?



and can the bible still have anything to teach on these weighty matters of public concern?



well perhaps it does, in the sense of the speculative "cast thy bread upon the waters",

and the other side would then, by process unknowable, become more amenable generally



but my choice of appropriate biblical reference in relation to gaily handing over varosha

would be "turn the other cheek"

or even better still, in the sense of a pair of bigger cheeks in the well-known rude gesture



andre

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
25/07/2010 21:40

"Direct trade was an E.U. proposal and not a Greek Cypriot concession"So in actual fact the Greek Cypriots are only offering two,

Paul.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
25/07/2010 21:41

Mess 3,

I meant for world wide trading with all embargoes lifted,

Paul.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
25/07/2010 21:45

Andre,

It was just a question.I am not saying that the should go "cap in hand" to the Gcs (god forbid) i just wondered what peoples thoughts where on the matter.I think you know where i stand on matters Cyprus,

Paul.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
25/07/2010 22:04

paul I regret not fully understanding where you stand on the issue of cyprus,

would it be quite unfair to compare it to doctor doolittle's push-me-pull-you creature?

so for those who need it spelt out perhaps you could remind us of your point of view



meanwhile the new report in the "cyprus mail" only refers to "direct trade" but I believe

cristofias' reheated proposal, actually meant "opening" famagusta under eu direction



finally I remain confused at your hinting that north cyprus should agree to any of this

...but your very own choice of words ie "handing over" and "take the bait"

does at once suggest a rather poor deal at best and a very nasty surprise at worst



andre

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
26/07/2010 00:08

"c'mon son, hand it over...

yes, I mean varosha

you wont get away with this you know

make it easy on yourself"



"let him have it" says paul



OOPS!!!

hds.trnc


Joined: 26/05/2009
Posts: 175

Message Posted:
26/07/2010 06:44

I suspect it was simply a pr exercise, .....so it can be said we tried!!!!!....its an offer that has been put on the table a few times and rejected or simply ignored...for the reasons given......

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
26/07/2010 22:04

In two words Andre.Two states,

Paul.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
26/07/2010 23:28

thanks paul, so you are saying you "favour" two states?

I was just a bit confused when you chose words like "hand over" and "bait"



so let us ask ourselves two questions:



why now?

I don't want to tempt fate but this offer could well be a response

to warnings from europe about their imposition of direct trade,

and the simultaneous opening of turkey's ports to gc shipping,

while cristofias could claim somewhat imaginatively, "we offered direct trade too!"



why peace?

I'm bemused by loose talk of peace deals, let alone spiked offers, like this,

the island has been pretty much at peace for more than a generation



business people could gain from a workable re-unification,

and yet I still have that sneaking feeling that certain expats instinctively yearn

for a greek cyprus, rather than the isolated cypriot-turkish province,

totally pinning their hopes on self-defined "europeans" as it were



nonetheless I wouldn't trust the greek cypriots as far as I could throw 'em

ttoli


Joined: 24/03/2007
Posts: 1172

Message Posted:
26/07/2010 23:47

Handing over Varosha???, wasnt it originally Evkaf land (Ottoman) and some parts merely leased to GC's ?

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
27/07/2010 12:33

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/cyprus/evkaf-says-it-plans-rebuild-varosha



Although this article is seven years old,it does raise some very interesting points.It is also one year before the Gcs bailed out of the Annan plan,

Paul.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
28/07/2010 01:52

apart from cameron's visit to ankara today

where in essence he begged turkey to be patient over its eu hopes:



the booming turkish economy was up 11% in first quarter 2010

with turkey set to be the no.2 european economy by 2050!

as featured in a stunning front cover story "turkey rising" in the current "newsweek"



and meanwhile in the "national geographic" for august 2010 a lavish feature

about the turkish-organised baku-london rail project (I'm not joking!)

also known as the "iron silk road"



turkey is nonetheless still very active in a training role in afghanistan,

a turkish general is deputy commander of nato with the second biggest army in the bloc



far from being pushed out in the snow by eu leaders france and germany

turkey is getting the very best of all possible worlds with its trade expanding outwards

in all directions, while europe lies bleeding and near-bankrupt



fiddle about, fretting over totally impotent gc posturing on varosha: what on earth for?