Work Permits for Musicians in North Cyprus?

wings


Joined: 25/06/2010
Posts: 152

Message Posted:
27/07/2010 11:23

Does anyone know if this applies individually or is it down to the venue owner and his connections? There have been some horror stories about the authorities attending and taking action.

crofter


Joined: 16/12/2008
Posts: 1035

Message Posted:
27/07/2010 11:26

We believe that the venue has to have a music licence and the musician has to have his own work permit. May be others know different.

wings


Joined: 25/06/2010
Posts: 152

Message Posted:
27/07/2010 11:34

So is this musician's work permit different in the way that a business employs a work permit holder specifically for that business?

johnnybgoode


Joined: 08/12/2008
Posts: 252

Message Posted:
27/07/2010 13:37

there's no chance for an entertainer gaining a work permit, for there's too many problems, the only way you could do, is become employed by a bar/restaurant to just entertain at his own establishment, you therefore could not entertain else were, and the bar/restaurant would also need a music licence???

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
27/07/2010 15:20

So, here's a hypothetical situation:



I go to 'Hoots' bar on a Tuesday night and am playing my *guitar, or harmonica, when the police doing their routine rounds just happen to turn up..... ???



*And, NO, I'm not jamming my Kevin 'Bloody' Wilson' repertoire!



Would I be arrested and fined - bar owner fined - where do we both stand 'TRNC legally'?



In the South one could be [and many were before EU] arrested for 'doing any type of work - paid, or unpaid.' was their criteria. How many expats were arrested for watering their neighbour's garden while the neighbour was taking a trip back to UK? - Answer: Plenty! - Also for working in bars, unpaid, 'helping their Cypriot friend'!

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
27/07/2010 15:30

msg 5;

One that knows 'all that' would not need to ask any questions.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
27/07/2010 16:12

yorgozlu/Msg 6:



As you have probably read on this forum, 'Hoots' regularly advertise their 'amateur musicians' night [Tuesdays].



So, my question was - and still is: how do the local [TRNC] cops view such a situation?



If negatively, then surely any karaoke pub could be deemed to be 'TRNC illegal', as members of the public stand up to sing along and therefore could be deemed to be entertaining the other members of the public in the bar. The very act of staging a karaoke night could be interpreted as depriving a TC band of work. The pub/bar may well have a music licence, but Mr./Mrs. Jo Blo Public doesn't - neither a 'work permit', so how do the cops view that situation?



Also, just because I know what went on in the South, doesn't mean to say I either know, or should know, the rules/law in TRNC - come to that, how many expats do know the law, because the government certainly don't make their ever changing laws clear?



PLEASE ADVISE ALL US THICK, IGNORANT GITS, YORGOZLU!!!

johnnybgoode


Joined: 08/12/2008
Posts: 252

Message Posted:
27/07/2010 16:13

the answer's in the question, and the answer is YES, but you would lose your equipement until fine was paid, which the last time a friend of mine was done was equal to a month salary about 1250tl

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
27/07/2010 16:45

msg 7;

my comments;



"One that knows 'all that' would not need to ask any questions. "



were towards;

"arrested for 'doing any type of work - paid, or unpaid.' was their criteria. How many expats were arrested for watering their neighbour's garden while the neighbour was taking a trip back to UK? - Answer: Plenty! - Also for working in bars, unpaid, 'helping their Cypriot friend'! "<<<<<



I hope,I am not spoiling the fun.

wings


Joined: 25/06/2010
Posts: 152

Message Posted:
27/07/2010 17:17

Time for a little research in the "mine field". Looks like all ex-pats entertaining are at risk. Thanks anyway. That's put the belly dancing idea firmly to bed.

MrsSnakes



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 1100

Message Posted:
27/07/2010 17:28

Nothing like opening a can of worms Wings !!!!!!!!!!

wings


Joined: 25/06/2010
Posts: 152

Message Posted:
27/07/2010 20:15

Well Mrs Snakes its about time it was made clear where we all stand. One man.one voice.one guitar.one fine.......per gig!!!!!!!! I wonder if you get discount for three or more in a band, you know like sharing a taxi? I know, how about a flat back low loader for a carnival getaway! Leave the gear strapped on the back and laid out, play the gig then if the police come, leg it down the road with cop car in hot pursuit and smoke genny full on!

snakes



Joined: 28/10/2008
Posts: 1512

Message Posted:
27/07/2010 21:25

Wings !!!! thanks for your advise will not play any more gigs ! cheers barry

spider


Joined: 03/01/2009
Posts: 5527

Message Posted:
27/07/2010 22:11

snakes it would be a very dull and boring night out without you and all the others. Whatever will the TRNC end up like..?





Spider,X

kaysera


Joined: 14/07/2009
Posts: 103

Message Posted:
27/07/2010 23:00

Msg 13 ~ What will zeroclor have to write about on here then???

wings


Joined: 25/06/2010
Posts: 152

Message Posted:
27/07/2010 23:03

Come on Barry, cheer up no offence intended. A little light hearted fun that's all. breaking the seriousness of something that could possibly happen to any of the ex-pat entertainers.



Unless I missed something which is where I return to the original question as posted. If you have the answer Barry then please share it with us. Mrs Snakes referred to the post as a "can of worms". Well, its about time those who entertain know where they stand working here.

spider


Joined: 03/01/2009
Posts: 5527

Message Posted:
27/07/2010 23:10

wings Most stand on the stage and enjoy themselves..and most go out for the same reason, Do you not ?





Spider,X

layby_lil



Joined: 13/11/2009
Posts: 141

Message Posted:
27/07/2010 23:18

Wings, there are some subjects that are best not mentioned this is probably one of them ??????? may i suggest you start flapping yours and find another tree to perch in

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
27/07/2010 23:26

yorgozlu/msg 9: 'I hope,I am not spoiling the fun.'



You're not the 'party pooh, pooh', fella - but what about cops?



Sorry - I only asked - it was, and still is, a GENUINE question, not a 'wind-up'.



When one considers what's happened [and still is] to Geoff & Mary + numerous other incidents involving expats, how can anyone not be slightly concerned, at least - paranoid, at most, about the rights and freedoms of foreigners?

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
27/07/2010 23:37

Oh well

All of this has just confirmed my dislike of the British expat community. You make problems for yourselves but you all expect everyone else to sort out your problems.

spider


Joined: 03/01/2009
Posts: 5527

Message Posted:
27/07/2010 23:45

wings seems to me to be a new member, maybe just another old member trying to start things up. or as you might say AJ, making problems..same old same old.





Spider,x

hal9000


Joined: 01/12/2008
Posts: 154

Message Posted:
28/07/2010 00:50

As I understand it from what happened a couple of years ago, a (foreign) entertainer can only perform in one venue, which must have him on their books as an employee, paying social sigorta, work permit, etc.

There were plenty of raids where performers were arrested and their equipment impounded. I understand the police now take a more relaxed view, but I don't think the law has changed, so the police attitude could alter at any time.

A TC entertainer can perform wherever he likes, because he doesn't need a work permit, although he may need a performer's licence

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
28/07/2010 00:57

well it may be all over now, so you employ an entertainer, get a music licencse, employ them, pay social etc. god we are going to be devoid as all the entertainers have been mentioned on here. so sad. hal is it the same for kariokie or how ever you spell it, would the bar restaurant need a licence. this is such bad news for the great people we have here x

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
28/07/2010 01:06

PRS & PPL have been informed!



Richard

hal9000


Joined: 01/12/2008
Posts: 154

Message Posted:
28/07/2010 01:16

Msg 23: Liz, I just don't know. I wouldn't have thought that karaoke was at risk because no-one's getting paid for doing it. But don't quote me!

As you know, what all this means is that each venue has its own performer who can't move on to other bars. That's why there was such an exodus of talent from the TRNC. Danny Fisher, Johnny Hawkins, Abba Divas, etc are trickling back, but they're either tied to one employer (Danny at Mo's places, Johnny at the Pia Bella) or they're doing one-off charity gigs.

The authorities here don't understand the concept of a performer working at different venues - or don't want to.

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
28/07/2010 01:19

thanks ;ove, i just feel for them xxxxx

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
28/07/2010 01:20

The authorities here don't understand the concept of a performer working at different venues - or don't want to.







The 'authorities' do not have a concept - period!



Richard

flowerfairy


Joined: 17/09/2008
Posts: 1277

Message Posted:
28/07/2010 01:39

Sorry guys, but when we spent the night listening to the Turkish groups at the reinactment of 74 in Alsancak, the Turkish groups that performend were marvelous. Blues, Jazz, Modern music.....what a delight.

Turkey is sponsering this lovely island,Can you blame the government for trying to stop expats performing , when there are such gifted bands who are available for bookings.?

spider


Joined: 03/01/2009
Posts: 5527

Message Posted:
28/07/2010 01:40

It will be asking questions about the market stalls next...some people have to bring these things up and cause trouble just because they are ignorant prats...that would never do anything for charity or love here.very sad folk..





Spider,X

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
28/07/2010 07:40

spider/Msg 29:



Now YOU mentioned 'market stalls'.



An 'agent provocateur', no less!



Back to thread subject: Not every expat. wants to listen to Turkish music all night - I wonder how many of those who packed out Soyz Bar, to listen to 'Snakes', would?



There seem to be too few TC bands/groups who play the type of music that Westerners prefer, but perhaps I don't get around enough.



I must say that the TC guitarist who plays at 'Quente' [didispellitright?] - the Brazilian 'meat chompers joint' is excellent - both vocally and instrumentally, but I think he should leave his trumpeteer and drummer right out of it and just stick with his backing tapes!

wings


Joined: 25/06/2010
Posts: 152

Message Posted:
28/07/2010 11:34

Spider, please keep to the point. I have lived here for over 6 years and I've seen entertainers come and go because of this problem. If you have the time and inclination to place a valid point on the board, about this subject which is helpful. Then I'm sure all of us who ARE musicians and some very good ones at that, would appreciate your input. I'm sure all the guitaraoke, karaoke (where you don't get a go) entertainers and bands would appreciate it. I am one who wont risk becoming a part of any band unless the rules are clear.

michelle3012


Joined: 07/11/2008
Posts: 578

Message Posted:
28/07/2010 11:51

Can Opener, tin of worms springs to mind here.....its the Entertainers that bring in the customers that spend money that contribute to the economy......live and let live.....this sort of thread does not need to be broadcast over the net, wings what are you on???

wings


Joined: 25/06/2010
Posts: 152

Message Posted:
28/07/2010 12:12

Michelle3012. I refer to the reply in message 31. Please keep to the point if you have something to answer the question posted.

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
28/07/2010 12:17

msg 32;

".....its the Entertainers that bring in the customers that spend money that contribute to the economy......"



How can one contribute to the economy without paying anything into it?

spider


Joined: 03/01/2009
Posts: 5527

Message Posted:
28/07/2010 12:38

wings lived here 6yrs and been a Forum member 1 month..and 2 stars ! keep strumming at it you may even one day find an answer Please start another Thread when you do !



Its the Entertainers that bring in the customers that spend money that contribute to the economy...Yes yorqozlu Entertainers also spend money..Please enlighten me if you know of anyone NOT spending money here that is not helping the economy...I might like to live that way myself )) cashless..!



Spider,X

jimmykibris


Joined: 20/07/2010
Posts: 151

Message Posted:
28/07/2010 12:45

nice one spider

spider


Joined: 03/01/2009
Posts: 5527

Message Posted:
28/07/2010 12:51

wings Another way around you game..Why not email all the entertainers you know living here.go have a bear or two with them and ask them all how things work.My guess is you may even find out they would all be quite helpful.

Good Luck.





Spider,X

wings


Joined: 25/06/2010
Posts: 152

Message Posted:
28/07/2010 13:01

Spider, that's probably a good idea. In reply to the strumming bit, Its quite hard strumming a Drum kit unless you strum the snares, so I'll stick to "beating"it. At least that's what my last student called it.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
28/07/2010 16:12

wings / msg 31: 'I am one who wont risk becoming a part of any band unless the rules are clear.'



I'd like to contribute my [very mediocre!] rhythm guitar skills to a band - but completely agree with 'wings' on this very point.



There must be so many bars and pubs that would occasionally like to hold a 'sing along/request' evening to gain popularity and swell customer numbers.

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
28/07/2010 16:43

msg 35;

spider;



"Yes yorqozlu Entertainers also spend money..Please enlighten me if you know of anyone NOT spending money here that is not helping the economy...I might like to live that way myself )) cashless..! "



Helping 'economy' is by putting something into it.

Helping individuals make their earnings better,ie.putting up bands/entertainments is NOT helping the 'economy' at all,in fact making it poorer,becouse none of that extra earnings (the bands+bussinesman)gets declered to the government.



ps.I hope you dont try to convince me about the 2 ex-pat pool cleaners that come round where I live ARE also helping the ECONOMY.

michelle3012


Joined: 07/11/2008
Posts: 578

Message Posted:
28/07/2010 16:57

Yorgozlu, The proprietor has to pay taxes and KDV on the revenue generated from sales of food beer, wine spirits etc, so the money is going back into the economy, anyway most of the musicians give their time for free just because they enjoy what they do!

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
28/07/2010 17:09

msg 41;

Not once I disputed about the entertainers!!!!!!!



I just think the excuses they use are POOR.



Otherwise,I'm all up for a bit of that as well,especialy .........ROCK.....LIKE A ROLLING STONE.....

wings


Joined: 25/06/2010
Posts: 152

Message Posted:
28/07/2010 18:04

Thank you Tenakoutuo for your concurrence. It's a sad fact so true, that you either risk the "flexible" goal posts or party for friends at home. michelle3102 which musicians give their free time because they enjoy what they do?

How is that proven to the authorities if and when they're caught at a venue. "Oh I just popped in to give some free time to play for this audience, OK Officer"? Yes certainly that'll be 1250TL and you can pick the Kazoo up in the morning!

Graeme


Joined: 05/11/2008
Posts: 18

Message Posted:
28/07/2010 20:49

Wings



Surely if a person enjoys their music and likes entertaining then I dare say a number of musicians give up their free time because they enjoy what they do.



it is just he same as other things in life, amateur dramatics, coaches at sports clubs, scout leaders etc not everyone demands to be paid for doing something.



Whilst TRNC law is no doubt a bit of a free for all under British law it would be up to the police to prove guilt not the reverse.

michelle3012


Joined: 07/11/2008
Posts: 578

Message Posted:
28/07/2010 20:51

Graeme, i couldnt put it better myself, so thank you.

wings


Joined: 25/06/2010
Posts: 152

Message Posted:
28/07/2010 21:24

Thank you Graeme,



It still diverts from the original question and it seems you dont live in "the Village" and are not sure how the Police and Judicial service apply the law here . I dont aspire to have any extensive knowledge of it either, other than seeing the experiences of others in the 6 years or so I have lived here, Geoff Day being one. If you think you'll get a refund on your "Kazoo" then I suggest you come over, let the Police know what you are doing and we can all watch as you get cuffed, bundled in the back of a Renault 12 and charged with using a dangerous weapon which is likely to cause criminal damage to sleeping gardeners.

Graeme


Joined: 05/11/2008
Posts: 18

Message Posted:
28/07/2010 21:43

Wings



I think you will find that your heading of this thread is in fact a statement not a question. The mere typing of a ? at the end of the statement does not not change its meaning.



I do not live in "the village" as you so quaintly put it and probably spend only approximately 8 weeks of the year in the TRNC on pleasure and have had very little dealings with the law apart from successfully obtaining my PTP, Kochan and Title Deeds.



With regard to the Geoff Day analysis I was under the impression that he has been accused of an illegal act and it is up to the prosecution to prove he committed the act. Will you explain whether this example that you are using is supportive or unsupportive of my comments in respect of my post on TRNC law - number 44 above ?



As I do not own, nor have ever played a Kazoo, i think it highly unlikley that I will get a refund on my Kazoo. Perhaps you would explain the last part of your post so I can provide a sensible reply.

PaulW



Joined: 20/07/2009
Posts: 651

Message Posted:
28/07/2010 21:45

There is an interesting comment posted by Gibson himself on the North Cyprus BB forum.



Paul

Graeme


Joined: 05/11/2008
Posts: 18

Message Posted:
28/07/2010 21:56

Paul do you have a link to the forum please ?

PaulW



Joined: 20/07/2009
Posts: 651

Message Posted:
28/07/2010 22:01

Link removed on request of the target BB forum admin.



Graeme

This may work

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
28/07/2010 23:05

msg 44;



"under British law it would be up to the police to prove guilt not the reverse"



This is not UK and it does not work that way here in TRNC.

However,I am also aware of these things taking place in every part of the world and will carry on the same after as well.

I am enjoying this thread,so please keep it going guys and gals,apart from few that keeps popping every now and then just to approve someones comments just because thats what suits them and also not brave enough to make those comments themselves.

catalkoykid


Joined: 15/02/2009
Posts: 1190

Message Posted:
28/07/2010 23:11

One thing to come out of the 44 thread, Snakes said he won't play anymore



Link removed due to a request by the target BB forum admin.







there are nasty lot on the other forum

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
28/07/2010 23:16

im so sad , this may stop many people enjoying thier music nights, whatever they are, we now have to look so closely to do what we do if we permit music, for that i thank you.for the lovely people who support the artists here then im so sorry x

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
28/07/2010 23:29

Lilli;

It doesnt have to be like that,but sadly 'we all want it for nothing',including myself.

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
28/07/2010 23:33

yorg sadly that is so true now x

Graeme


Joined: 05/11/2008
Posts: 18

Message Posted:
29/07/2010 00:03

Yorgozlu



"under British law it would be up to the police to prove guilt not the reverse"



This is not UK and it does not work that way here in TRNC.



Are you saying then that a person is assumed guilty until proven innocent ?



If that is the case then TRNC has clearly taken a large backwards step since 1974.

teatime


Joined: 20/10/2008
Posts: 852

Message Posted:
29/07/2010 00:11

Msg 52: I'm on this forum as well, for a brain surgeon you are rather naive!!!

catalkoykid


Joined: 15/02/2009
Posts: 1190

Message Posted:
29/07/2010 00:16

mess 57 funny how its been removed, if there was nothing wrong with it why remove it twat

teatime


Joined: 20/10/2008
Posts: 852

Message Posted:
29/07/2010 00:17

For a brain surgeon you use lovely language!!!

hal9000


Joined: 01/12/2008
Posts: 154

Message Posted:
29/07/2010 02:19

I was about to contribute to this thread, but I see that once again a sensible discussion has deteriorated into personal abuse.

Mods: Time to close this one down?

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
29/07/2010 05:39

This thread is now closed. Reason: Thread went off topic.

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
29/07/2010 05:50

Graeme;



TRNC is TRNC,UK is UK and EU is EU.



If you are in agreement with above then we are fine,if not,I am afraid you are living in a dreamland.



" TRNC has clearly taken a large backwards step since 1974"

Perhaps you should've mentioned 50s and 60s as well where the island was controled by Brittish laws......!!!



.............unless you can come up with a defence,you havent got a case..........