If a Cyprob solution was found...

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 03:23

If the island found a solution to the divide , would everybody be happy or not ??

would it change your atttitude to staying????

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 06:53

The solution for the island was found in 1974.

gazmufc78


Joined: 03/09/2009
Posts: 366

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 09:14

Yorgozlu, Very well said. That is the only solution that there can be and all that could happen is for it to be ratified.

waddo


Joined: 29/11/2008
Posts: 1966

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 09:43

Perfect answer - needs no further explaination!

cyprusairsoft



Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 2066

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 09:57

spot on yorg your the man

deputydawg


Joined: 30/03/2010
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 10:37

Yorgozlu. Spot on right, though I do sometimes wonder what it would be like if the GCs had been driven right back off the South Coast and the Green Line was 12 miles out to Sea from there ! No matter the Sovereign Base Areas ?

breezyboy


Joined: 14/05/2007
Posts: 1179

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 15:31

In the unlikely event that GCs can be appeased sufficiently to come to an agrreement, what does everyone think changes would mean to them.



To start off-

Cheaper flights without Turkish landing.

Some imported goods may be a bit cheaper.





So long as TRNC isn't involved in EEC then what else to the man in the street / ex-pat?

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 15:34

Agree with Yorg.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 15:46

Yorg is god,

Paul.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 23:15

..and you are 'kidding yourselves' .. there'll be a compromise or two yet...

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 23:49

mmmmmm



"compromise"



'WE' did that as well n 1974.

Some might not like it........then again they wouldnt,would they?

canyavuz


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 363

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 00:21

Yorgozlu

You've given the perfect answer in your first message



I dont think mmmmmm understands the complexity of the so called "Cyprus problem".

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 09:33

re msg 12



I realise that my responding would bring in the members who might challenge my post.... it is based on foreign Policy which is pretty much std outside of TR / 'TRNC'

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 09:43

mike

i believe its a hobby to shake the................... wasps nest.

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 10:06

Reh Yorgo, 74 was no solution. The Solution was there on the opposite side of the table to Muhtar X, but he couldn't see Talat if it was a double decker red bus driving towards him. The chance is now gone, can't wait till December when the whole thing is wrapped up once and for all by the UN.



About time UN left Cyprus and got on with urgent matters elsewhere where they are really needed.

millzer


Joined: 12/04/2007
Posts: 978

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 11:06

Ok the solution to solve the fighting and give the TC's some security was found in '74, but IF the TC's really want to be treated and recognised as a proper 'free' nation without embargoes from the rest of the world then I'm sorry Yorgs but I agree with Markymark as your anwer falls way short as a lot more work still needs to be done, whether that be on a BBF or as two seperate states who knows, but certainly the 'solution' to it all has not been found.... YET.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 11:07

Dear Yfred



re msg 15



don't you think there will be concessions from Turkey in December?



The UN will be there as long as there is no official settlement

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 23:09

as regards any compromise I agree with mmmmmm

if he is suggesting any compromise is much more likely to come via turkey



christofias did us all a favour by explaining on local tv a couple of months ago,

why the gc lot are not looking for a "compromise" (in the way we understand it)



...and I'd agree at least that their whole point of view makes it unimaginable



so it would be left to turkey to climb down and throw in the towel as it were

er...like they did with the gaza relief ship cock-up, or not as the case may be



interestingly mark doesn't chance his arm by predicting the regional power will give in

but puts the responsibility firmly on our side to do that viz "don't you think...?" (I quote)



now why would that be I wonder?



andre

Blackpoolfan


Joined: 03/12/2008
Posts: 1568

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 23:18

Im with the 6 m's even though he stole our manager

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 23:59

I'm totally with 6xm... if he doubts the gc's will ever compromise



andre



ps that may be a good thing for north cyprus, direct trade-wise

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 04:23

msg 16;



"'solution' to it all has not been found.... YET. "



According to WHO?Could that be our unfortunate Greek neighbours who seem to want nothing other then ALL?

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 04:37

msg 15;

YFred;



"Reh Yorgo, 74 was no solution"



Whats more important in life other then "our safety and security"?

As far as everything else is concerned,they are nothing other then whats been created by bunch of foreign do goodders trying to make themselves look important.



Whats the chances of couples survival after visiting 'marriage guidence'?

ZILCH,they'd have got on if they were going to.



For everything/everyone else (foreigners) I have a tattoo on my thumb which I cant puplish here as it'd get me banned.

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 08:34

Yiorko said



Whats more important in life other then "our safety and security"?



i believe that you have nightmares every night of blood thirsty GCs who want to eliminate the TCS

get a life and try to Detox you self from all this hate or what ever you want to call it for the GCs. is no good for your health .



what happened was happened from the extremist of both sides not from the ordinary people TRs or GCs

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 08:42

YFred Messasge 15 mmmmmm msg 17,



Totally agree with you both!



wyn

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 08:50

tracer

Talk to me about history lessons in GC schools and then explain to me why GC children are being taught to hate Turks/Cypriot Turks.

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 09:14

dave

show me one book with the words HATE THE tcs. turks is another matter 1821 1912 smirni i believe you know the history of the turks they have nothing at all to show to the world exept of killings,rapes, murders,genocides etc.

but TCs ARE CYPRIOTS LIKE ME and nothing to to with turkey or greece.

only types like yiorko in both sides (and thank god they are few) feel any hate .

and dont forget the brits(the masters of deception) that plant the seeds of hate

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 09:19

"only types like yiorko in both sides (and thank god they are few) feel any hate "



I guess you still need to work out the difference of 'hate' and 'dont want to live with you'.



However,you might find it helpfull if you visit the 'other forum' at 'your end'.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 09:33

Hi Tracer



I have to agree that I saw much more vitreole from GC school kids who were obviously ENCOURAGED to march through the streets with OXI banners - in SCHOOL TIME - during the Annan vote run up ....



Too many GCs are aware of some of the negative aspects of GC leadership that led up to 1974

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 09:53

mark

icannot disagree with you on that but idont believe that those banners were saying anything against TCs it was all about turkey .(or you can say the belt takes them all together.)

you said vitreole i will say ignorance .cause they never live with tcs.



Sure they make mistakes and huge ones and still they dident learn .

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 10:50

tracer



the gc,s have nothing agains,t the tc,s ,and then why are we here in this situation today .



cyprus will remain as it is ,if the gc,s continue with their stance and continue blocking every small thing that

the tc,s do ,then i can see turkey annexing the north eventually .



but then this is what the gc,s do ,push ,push and push until it all breaks up and hits them in the face,they have not learned anything so let,s kid ourselves.



musin



long live the kktc

Jenny76



Joined: 01/06/2010
Posts: 33

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 10:51

there might have been a solution in 1974 - but since then too much has changed and it's no longer applicable.

Far too complicated now to find a solution, too many and too much involved.



But yes - I think I'd stay.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 11:17

Dear Jenny76,



'74 was no 'solution' ( to the vast majority of Cypriots ) and it is too easy to say - 'too complicated ' 'to late' to change things..



There is a basis for a solution and eventually it will come about ...

Jenny76



Joined: 01/06/2010
Posts: 33

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 11:24

sooner than later I hope

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 11:31

Mark there will be 4 concessions from Turkey by then. They will open the ports to the roc , they will give back 10% land, All but about 1000 soldiers will leave eventually and will allow about 40000 refugees to return under TRNC if they so wish.

Yorgo, how can we accept the 74 as a solution when over 50000 TCs still preferred to leave the island afterwards. It just does not make sense.



Christofias will have to compromise on Direct Trade inc flights, Turkish Guarantee for the TCs and 27% land proportion and that will be that.



If he does not, TCs will end up with 37.5% land and will get direct flights sooner or later. As far as Turkish Guarantee is concerned it really does not matter whether its on paper or not. I can’t see Turks sitting by and watching the GCs annihilate TCs. It just will not happen.

BrightonJim


Joined: 27/07/2010
Posts: 145

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 12:12

YFred posts a reasoned solution.

But based on his solution the key question as regards UK citizens living in the TRNC is, where would the "40,000 GC refugees" live?

Would they be given "their land" back, which may include developed exchange land or would they be given non-developed land?

Jenny76



Joined: 01/06/2010
Posts: 33

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 12:16

... or back into original houses now inhabited ?

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 12:55

YFred;



"Yorgo, how can we accept the 74 as a solution when over 50000 TCs still preferred to leave the island afterwards. It just does not make sense"



I,for one was one of them and am also proud to admit to the fact that I WAS COWARD for leaving,took the easier obtion.

However,my view of GCs is what I post here.That however does not mean that I have different view regarding "TRNC" then YOU.I keep my issues about HOME at home.

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 13:01

Have to agree with Mark and YFred on this one.



I believe that there is plenty of room for compromise.



One obvious compromise is a significant reduction in the number of Turkish troops based on this side. I appreciate that peace and security were the keywords in 1974 but we have moved on significantly since then. The Cypriot National Guard numbers about 10,000 and are on the whole poorly trained and poorly equipped. Even if they had the capability to 'invade' the North they wouldn't, as members of the EU it would be political (as well as military) suicide for the RoC to do so. Besides which, Turkey could reinforce from the mainland in a matter of hours.



In the military planning process, an attacking force will normally try to outnumber it's enemy by a ratio of 4:1. TRNC 40,000 troops, RoC 10,000 troops - one can see how this could be interpreted ! A reduction down to an equivalent 10,000 could go a long way in opening meaningful negotiations.



Just a thought



Paul

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 14:51

Jim, nobody will lose out on this one. If the land is developed there will be a formula to work out the final outcome like the Annan plan which was reasonable under the circumstances. I see no losers here. The last decision by ECHR refusing to accept that a GC can claim the land to be a home in the legal sense if they have not lived there for more than 12 years has solved a lot of the issues. They can have compensation but not necessarily the original land back.



Yorgo, I left Cyprus before 74 and I do not see myself as a coward. After living under the suffocation of enclaves, it was a natural thing to do. We were victims of the roc not cowards. You are suffering from the victim syndrome, blaming yourself for what they have done to you.



Mark knowing the GC soldier mentality and how brave they are NOT (Which would beat even Huseyin Bolt’s 100m running backwards) as I do, 1000 Turkish Soldiers is more than enough with 3500 TC soldier to hold them for the planes to arrive in

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 15:37

YFred;



"You are suffering from the victim syndrome, blaming yourself for what they have done to you."







No I'm not actualy,I just WONT take no s**t from nobody anymore.



"knowing the GC soldier mentality and how brave they are NOT (Which would beat even Huseyin Bolt’s 100m running backwards) as I do, 1000 Turkish Soldiers is more than enough with 3500 TC soldier to hold them for the planes to arrive in "



.......so that we can please our neighbours and the rest of the world.......



No thank you.I lived those days already,never again. F**K'EM

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 01:31

msg 35 , this was basically my point , not racist political views , a real question would you feel safe in your property ???

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 06:54

Glad you have used the phrase 'your property' that's the first step along the way to a compromise...



Given ECHR rulings of late I reckon anyone living in a house that didn't exist pre-74 should feel quite secure.. knowing they won't need to vacate. If someone can make a reasoned case for getting their mud-hut back (the ECHR don't seem easily convinced that a house you've never lived in can meet such a criterion) then maybe they will need to make provision for the previous occupier.

Sazna


Joined: 12/09/2009
Posts: 1177

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 08:31

for all those in doubt about GC'S hate toward TC's you only need to look on Jlo's and Sean Pauls websites and their own forum to see the poison they are spewing.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 09:49

Sazna,



Many of those GCs posting have prob never MET a Turk or a TC and have been brought up with somewhat one-sided events



All they understand is that one morning Turkey invaded - because some bad folks - with the help of a Greek Military junta had overthrown the govt. .. that the British didn't do anything to help... and that upwards of 200 K people - many of whom had managed to keep friends with TCs - even though there were those on BOTH sides tried desperately to polarise - had to flee THEIR homes... folks got killed.



They are taught that there was a cease fire in Zurich and the Turks broke it of and the 'useless' GC 'defenders' who had kept mighty TR confined to a relatively small area - and having been denied fresh ammo - while TR re-enforced..



They are taught that this invasion was planned - with the agreement of the US state dept about how much territory to take, and that the US had even encouraged the Greek Generals, too.



Yep - there is a lot of hate ..

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 09:51

(cont)



This is NOT my thinking - but it is how I see young GCs think..

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 17:18

mmmmmm;



"Many of those GCs posting have prob never MET a Turk or a TC and have been brought up with somewhat one-sided events "



............so,it'll all be fine when we start living together again,bla,bla,bla.....



This is not my thinking -but it is how the 'bedtime story' goes on..

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 19:51

yiorko how it will seem to you if i invite you to my house are you going to say yes or you will thing that this blood thirsty cypriot might have bad intentions ?

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 19:54

mmmmmm



i cannot agree more with you this is exactly how thinks are in a few words.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 19:57

Microstate a protectorate of Turkey. (Look it up on Wikopedia before you answer)



Any takers?



wynyardman

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 20:29

msg 44



all they understand is that one day turkey invaded;



i find that quite insulting ,you will find most tc,s would be ,like yorgo has stated we do not want to go through

74 again so please let us live our lives without all the anomosity.





musin



long live the kktc

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
05/08/2010 02:24

tracer,I'll except your invitation and come to you and perhups have nice time together as well.........and then I WILL come back home.

AND I 'd do the same to you neighbour.

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
05/08/2010 07:26

ok fair we will start with a coffee at vavilas coffee shop next time ill be there ......let you know.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
07/08/2010 13:38

Just read an interesting study. It seems that the study may have been conducted to better understand the middle East issues.



Those who hold a sacred belief or value, not only reject any amount of compensation they are offered, but they are also insulted when compensation is offered and as a consequence become more entrenched.



In other words, if a GC absolutely believes that his/her land is theirs, no debate on the issue, then by offering them compensation would force them to not only reject the offer, but to be even more adamant and forceful in demanding their land back.



The study showed that the only way for someone who holds a sacred value to be influenced, is by the other side making a very very significant concession. In the Israeli - Palestine issue this would be Palestine recognising the Jewish state and Israel giving up its land in Jerusalem.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
07/08/2010 19:24

So is this the reason why the majority of GC's wont go to the IPC for compensation?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
07/08/2010 19:29

Their govt has repeatedly told them NOT to use the IPC... :(

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
08/08/2010 20:54

we are once again discussing compensation for greek cypriot claimants

among whom there is understandably talk of a "cyprob"

...and again it all seems to eminate from south of the "attila line"



my mate ali says his biggest problem is his poor salary,

true ishmael wants the turkish army off the island,

but to birgul on the other hand security and safety are her greatest concerns



I'd like to address all those who hanker for a single solution to a simple cyprob:

if you lost territory justly or otherwise, wouldn't you want a "solution"

that turns the clock back?



actually I'm beginning to doubt there will ever be any agreed solution,

certainly not one that both sides can sign up to

but before we know it, a three-way solution of sorts may be upon us:



the european court refuses to hear property cases from february 2010



the eu finally agrees direct trade for north cyprus in 2011



and the trnc-turkey water and electricity pipelines in full operation by 2014





andre