aircraft near misses cyprus /turkey

cyprusairsoft



Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 2066

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 12:38

I was quite alarmed to see how many near misses etc were happening as per saturdays cyprus today



2 of them very serious due to problems with greek and turkish air traffic control.



im not a good flyer and i wonder how long it will be before a near miss becomes a reality



I think they said 3-400 ish in a year !!!!

whats your view on this peeps

waddo


Joined: 29/11/2008
Posts: 1966

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 12:45

Don't know about civilian flying but military class a near miss as within 1 mile of each other - 1 mile is a fair distance apart but still too close for comfort at over 500MPH in both directions!



It depends on what they class as a near miss - if it is on the same flight level then that is bad but if seperation is far apart (up and down) it is not as bad as it seems. Not trying to say that a near miss is not important but like everything else, there are stages.



Seems that the problem is once again a Greek refusal to admit that Turkish ATC exists but if an accident happens you can bet your boots it will be seen as a Turkish fault! Just hope they get it sorted out now it has hit the news.



Having said all that, flying is still the safest form of transport.

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 12:47

a russian aircraft caught fire at laranca on landing, luckily it was soon put out and no one was hurt x

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 14:16

re msg 1 What's the source?



As you know the OFFICIAL ATC for CY is Nicosia FIR .. who don't talk to those that 'claim' control' of airpsace over 'TRNC'



A flight from Moscow - overflying Turkey has to go via a third party ( Beirut / Damascus ?) ATC to land at LCA airport



I suggest that Nicosia FIR probably report many incursions into what is ( 'officially') their airpsace as near misses.



It would be great to hear from someone who can be precise about this..

waddo


Joined: 29/11/2008
Posts: 1966

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 14:43

mmmmmm, the full winge is in Cyprus Today and looks a bit like teddy's out of the cot from the South and from Turkey. If the truth has been told - fat chance - then I have some sympathy with Turkish ATC as the Greek ATC staff will not even talk to them. Sad state to be in and I wonder what would happen should the Turkish ATC warn the Greek ATC of impending doom - and it happened because the Greek would not talk to the Turk. After all, in the state of "Legal" airspaces, the fault would rest quite square on the Nicosia FIR.



Silly. Dangerous and stupid. Posture for the sake of it for my mind. Safety is everyones responsibility.

wings


Joined: 25/06/2010
Posts: 152

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 18:44

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Step 1. File a flight plan.

Step 2. Have it approved and sent back.

Step 3. Punch it into the "Top-cat" for fuel, weight and flight planning calcs for wind,height and speed

Step 3. At the allotted time called a slot, request start-up and pushback from ground control. Read back IFR clearance to Local Air Traffic after handover from ground.

Step 4. After take off and handover to terminal control area (TMA) with secondary radar transmitting the squawk code via the transponder and following radar controller instructions until leaving controlled airspace you will be climbing to the allotted flight level within the airway corridor following the waypoints input into the GPS or by way of VOR radial or NDB. The flight info. region does not provide separation or radar control. They only provide info. It must be remembered that an airliner will monitor more than one radio frequency and the secondary radar gives height dir/spd to a region. Summarised as best I

dalartokat


Joined: 14/04/2008
Posts: 734

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 20:54

Cyprus ATC risks heightened by local politics

David Learmount, London (21Apr10, 14:08 GMT, 405 words)





Cyprus' Government is urging international aviation bodies to raise pilots' awareness of a potentially dangerous air traffic control anomaly in the eastern Mediterranean, especially as a significant recent political development may make the situation worse.



The risk to aviation safety stems from the fact that there is no direct communication between the two adjacent air control centres at Ankara and Nicosia, so there is no advance co-ordination of aircraft crossing from one flight information region (FIR) to the other.



The anomaly is politically based, resulting from the fact that the northern part of the island remains illegally occupied by Turkey since its invasion in 1974. Tensions have now been heightened by the 18 April election in northern Cyprus of the hardline separatist candidate Dervis Eroglu.



In 2007, the European Commission criticised Turkey for failing to

dalartokat


Joined: 14/04/2008
Posts: 734

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 20:58

In 2007, the European Commission criticised Turkey for failing to co-operate with Cyprus on ATC matters. It said "the lack of communication between air control centres in Turkey and the Republic of Cyprus compromises air safety". Now the prospects for a solution have almost certainly receded as a result of Eroglu's election, Nicosia ATC says.



At present, aircraft approaching Nicosia FIR are required to "establish contact with Nicosia ACC in order to pass essential flight details...10 minutes before entry". But when aircraft cross the Ankara/Nicosia FIR boundary, they are directed by Ankara to change frequency directly to the illegal area control at Ercan, the main airport in northern Cyprus.



So southbound aircraft entering Nicosia airspace have to communicate with both Ercan and Nicosia. Problems arise either when aircraft fail to contact Nicosia 10min before reaching the boundary, or accept flight-level changes or flight plan diversions within the FIR from Ercan, without consul

dalartokat


Joined: 14/04/2008
Posts: 734

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 21:00

without consulting Nicosia.



In 2009 there were 461 incidents reported. Of these about 50 involved pilots accepting level or heading changes from Ercan. In a recent incident, Ercan cleared an aircraft to descend towards Beirut and change to the Beirut control frequency. The pilot obeyed the instruction. Beirut, meanwhile, assumed the pilot had been released by Nicosia, but Nicosia could not contact the aircraft despite the fact that it was still well inside its FIR.



Charis Antoniades, head of Nicosia Area Control, says: "Double-controlling is very dangerous. Pilots are not expecting this interference. At a time of heavy workload it puts extra strain on controllers as well as pilots. Sometimes the pilots get confused about which station is speaking to them and which is the legal one."

dalartokat


Joined: 14/04/2008
Posts: 734

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 21:04

6 M's this has been in my e mails also since 23/4/2010 with the heading "Do you still want to fly to NC" it was sent to me by my son (picture) he is in Aviation Insurance.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 21:10

Hi Dalartokat



I googled your post and found it in one piece here:



http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/04/21/340866/cyprus-atc-risks-heightened-by-local-politics.html



Wings: re msg 6

Do you know the expression ' but this is Cyprus' ? ;)

cyprusairsoft



Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 2066

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 22:04

the 2 serious incidents were planes at the same height same heading