What is actually happening regarding Entertainers and the Law?

dougskud



Joined: 04/04/2008
Posts: 356

Message Posted:
19/08/2010 09:55

Hello everyone good morning.



Reading several earlier posts and the one from Snakes which generated huge amounts of posts it could be assumed that entertainers at bar's and restaurants had been effectively "exterminated!"



But what is the actual situation?



regards

Doug

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
19/08/2010 10:36

'The actual situation' seems to be that only a mug would 'put his/her head on the chopping block' by entertaining illegally!

stellasstar1



Joined: 02/07/2008
Posts: 1519

Message Posted:
19/08/2010 10:50

Accordng to the newspaper, the government is cracking down on entertainers working without a permit and said they will deport them. Why oh why can't they bring in "self employment" for all individuals that want to work in their own businesses, whatever that might be.

john_good


Joined: 15/08/2010
Posts: 176

Message Posted:
19/08/2010 11:00

justin timberlake and Rhianna will of course have work permits when the appear at chatalkoy.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
19/08/2010 11:10

stellastar1/Msg 3:



The answer to your question is quite simple!



TRNC would be flooded with 'self-employed' foreigners and the locals would end up being all unemployed - provided that is, that the government were to hand out work permits to foreigners just for the asking.



Somehow, I think that's NEVER going to happen - don't you?

dreamer


Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 189

Message Posted:
19/08/2010 11:14

The locals will still proberly end up unemployed,where do you think most of their income comes from

harita


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 1343

Message Posted:
19/08/2010 17:23

Why can't the entertainers be invited from the audiance as guest singers ..

Groups, guitarists etc. using premises for practice sessions only .. wink .. wink ..

No money to be seen changing hands ..

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
19/08/2010 17:25

What is the penalty for entertaining illegally?

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
19/08/2010 17:25

Harita. Message 7. Great idea. That could work.

marcosthechef



Joined: 30/11/2009
Posts: 646

Message Posted:
19/08/2010 17:47

Why dont the Government stop phuqing about with this country and start to make it work, it is and always has been very easy indeed, but unfortunately they are all unqualified and if they had a country to run they would be in trouble !!!!!!



It is not for us 'Foreigners' to tell them how to do, its just that we want to be legal and pay our dues, I am lucky I was able to afford a company in the days before it became unviable.



Every aspect of the tourism industry here has been anialated in the last 5 years, There is no other industry here apart from ........................ ????? ......go on.......give us a clue

keithcaley



Joined: 13/06/2008
Posts: 2521

Message Posted:
19/08/2010 18:07

Re msg 8

Yusuf Onderol, Director of the Labour Ministry's Labour Department, speaking about foreign entertainers, working illegally, said that ".....the employer gets fined the minimum wage for each illegal worker. The workers get deported and can only re-enter the country with the permission of the Cabinet."

Quote taken from the front page of yesterday's 'Cyprus Today' - so it must be true

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
19/08/2010 18:14

According to the TRNC law, Msg 7's idea would NOT work, for the reason that it could be construed by the authorities as an activity for which a TC could be being paid an 'appearance fee' for - therefore, deliberately depriving said TC of a work opportunity.



Rightly, or wrongly, that is the 'thinking man's' interpretation of what has been recently published in the Press.



The government should be 'pulling out all stops' to encourage the pub and restaurant trade by any means possible in these recessionary times.

Elliecy


Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 153

Message Posted:
19/08/2010 19:13

This whole situation is ridiculous. There are issues with entertainers working illegally but that's because the law with regards to work permits is quite frankly, stupid! If an entertainer is prepared to pay for a work permit (like anyone else), then why not give them the permit & let them work wherever? As long as they have a permit & pay the tax what is the problem? They are not depriving 'locals' of jobs; generally the ex-pat bars do not have 'Turkish' entertainment, just as a lot of the Turkish bars do not hire an ex-pat to sing to their customers in English etc. There has been the recent furore over J-Lo's 'non-appearance', followed by the current campaign to 'bring Rhianna to the TRNC'. We also have the subsequent campaign by the GC's to stop Rhianna coming, so what do the TRNC Gov then do? Issue an immediate crackdown on foreign entertainment & demand more tax! Things are bad enough already but soon no-one will bother coming because there will be nothing to do when you get here!

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
19/08/2010 19:59

This issue is not about entertainers, it is about people working illegally. Entertainers just flout the law more publicly than the rest of them and therefore, at the moment, the focus is on them. A couple of years ago, the focus was on expats doing illegal taxi runs to the airports.



Brits are invited into this Country and obtain 'temporary' residency on the understanding that they can support themselves from their savings/pension/income from abroad. Their 'temporary' residency permits state that they are not allowed to work!



Brit's are invited in because they bring foreign currency into the Country thereby, supporting the economy.



Why do Brit's think that they can flout the law and work illegally?



Brit's can also invest in Northern Cyprus by starting a company and paying into the system - An approximate minimum of 2500TL per month in KDV, taxes, social sigorta etc. - again, helping to support the economy.



What the Government is against and quite rightly so, is a bunch o

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
19/08/2010 20:00

of Brit's who come here, think that they can flout the law and work illegally - in direct competition to Turkish Cypriots.



Why should the Turkish Cypriots change anything to suit the Brit's???

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
19/08/2010 20:01

Washerman who pissed on your chips!

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
19/08/2010 20:02

I rest my case!

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
19/08/2010 20:11

Is this just another encroachment on the Ex Pat lifestyle? Tightening the noose!



Weak laws that allow corrupt builders to get away with murder. Sold all the exchange ? property. No PTP for Brits on Pre 74



Turkish Title land. Estate Agents Law which (after payment of stamp duty) fails to protect buyer as promised. Memorandums,



bank mortgages at exhorbitant rates to builders against property that has already been paid for.



Drive down property prices, drive out The Brits, blame the bubbles for it all. OUTCOME...............



Cheap property for all our friends. DISGRACEFUL. .Another Efes garcon!



wynyardman



Cheap houses for mainland Turks and TCs

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
19/08/2010 20:23

We all have our own agendas Wynyardman and believe me when I say that I respect yours - you seem to me to be a law abiding citizen who got the rough end of the stick.



I may not have posted for 12 months, but I have regularly read your postings.



The most I can do and have done is to protest by going to the auctions.



AND, this is my point in this instance - illegal workers flout one set of rules on one hand and then, complain about another set on the other.



(Not directed at you Wynyardman)

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
19/08/2010 20:36

Washerman,



Taken as read.! Read on..... Most of the entertainers say that they wish to pay tax, but the system does not let them.



To hell with my personal agenda, but what I believe I and others believe we are seeing is a orchestrated campaign



to get rid of The Brits before a settlement (or lack of one) to the The Cyprus Problem. The major issues are easy to put right



with just a tweek of existing laws .Why don;t they do it? The noose is tightening.



wyn





HOW DOES A PROVINCE OF TURKEY GRAB YOU WITH CHEAP MODERN HOUSING FOR TURKS AND TCs

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
19/08/2010 20:49

Washerman if you are referring to me as being someone who works in the TRNC, let me put you straight, I haven't worked anywhere for the last 7 years, I am far too lazy and far too wealthy lol.

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
19/08/2010 20:57

I know that the entertainers say that they want to pay tax, but that's because they don't know how much they will have to pay. When they find out, I'll guarantee that they will change their minds.



PLUS, will the venues be able to afford to pay 1250TL per gig, which is what they will have to pay to enable the entertainers to go legit.



There's no way that the Govt. is going to let entertainers go legit and pay a few bob here and there.



The Govt. here respond and act upon complaints that they receive from their own. It's the high profile illegal entertainers that have brought this situation onto everyone else.



There's no doubt that the Brit's will not figure into any settlement, why should they? AND your argument has credibility, but IMHO, I think that it is out of our hands.

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
19/08/2010 21:01

Dee, I have too many curves to be put straight.



As to being Lazy and Wealthy - two attributes not normally seen together, but I'll take your egotistical word for it. What have I got to lose?

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
19/08/2010 21:15

Many things (entertainers, the building jungle etc etc etc) may change if the TRNC and RoC agree on a settlement and the TRNC would join the EU and its laws. But I have not met many Brits here who love the EU - so for the time being I may be the only one or one of the few who hopes for such a settlement..?

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
19/08/2010 21:26

Hi Dutch, long time no post. I'd love a merger, anything for a bit of excitement!

snakes



Joined: 28/10/2008
Posts: 1512

Message Posted:
19/08/2010 22:43

Washerman ! on the 27th July you EMailed me off forum wanting to form a band for your son with no mention of work permits etc and now you are (shouting off about tax evation morals etc) it just goes on ! you just never seem to give the whole picture in any of your posts ! You must take a step back for a moment and read all of the positive comments and support for all the entertainers here to realise you are a minority and the only negative poster ! I have, with the help of the venues , resolved the situation and will be playing at Bar8.8 friday 27th and Soyz 28th sat (taxes and permits paid) and future venues and dates to be announced and with no hanging on to a so called charity !! regards Barry

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
19/08/2010 22:52

well done snakes , all the best ,

snakes



Joined: 28/10/2008
Posts: 1512

Message Posted:
19/08/2010 22:55

Rowlo Thank you hope you can support us sometime regards Barry

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
20/08/2010 00:42

always one barry, 2 sides to a story, hers and hers x

cyprusjoker


Joined: 29/08/2009
Posts: 1107

Message Posted:
20/08/2010 00:59

Egg on ya face Washerman, get yourself down to Soyz bar, i hear theres room for another plonker !

hal9000


Joined: 01/12/2008
Posts: 154

Message Posted:
20/08/2010 01:59

Msg 26;

That's great Barry! As a representative of a "so-called charity", I'm really pleased that you have found a way to resolve the situation. Will you share this solution with us, or keep it to yourself?



We've been talking to various government officials today, and it seems that unless you have a work permit for a specific employer at a specific venue, or you are working for a local charity at no cost, you are facing deportation.



I really hope that the government brings the law into line with Turkey, where no work permit is needed for performers, or alternatively brings in a self-employed work permit so that entertainers can work legally and pay the relevant taxes.



Crippling the entertainment industry here will not do anyone any good; the tourism industry is reeling as it is, so why not make it a little easier for bars and restaurants to make more money? After all, the government will then appreciate the increased revenue from the bars' income.



Barry, be careful!

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
20/08/2010 07:29

Snakes. FYI - I did not email you, someone with access to my company email account did - draw your own conclusions.



I am not against entertainers, far from it, but I do believe that people should obtain permits and work legally and not flout the law. BTW, our household has all the necessary permits that we need to do what we do.



The difference withis that you had the audacity to do this and advertise it everywhere. Putting adverts on here, in the newspapers, posters in the windows and whatever else etc.- did you think that you could get away with it - why do you think that we don't do it AND we have work permits???



At one of your gigs, I even heard you gawd the management at the Shayna Beach Club (over the microphone) because they only wanted legal entertainers - do you think that they take kindly to this? We had to control our laughter quietly!





part of post edited for personal remark

Simbas

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
20/08/2010 07:30

As for openly and publicly criticizing the Govt. and the system on this board - do you think that they don't read this? What thoughts must go through their minds when they read some of the postings? You think that they are not influenced?



As for sorting it out - I will visit our accountants again today and speak to them. We have run a business and paid our taxes here for six years. I will tell them what you have said and ask them why you have been able to do what they have not??? - You must be far cleverer than even you think.



There's a lot for you to do Snakes to be legal before your next advertised gig, Better not waste time posting here. If I were you, I'd get straight on with it!

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
20/08/2010 07:31

You were running a business without any permits and without paying any tax or, contributing to the system! - what did you expect?



IMHO, I believe that it is you that has single handedly brought direct attention to the issue of entertainer's work permits and that you personally that is partly responsible for this situation.



In any event, don't try and blame me, I only started posting here again two days ago and by then, the cat was already, well and truly out of the bag. Sure you look plausible and say all the right things and there's no doubt that you will rally support and keep people on your side, but you don't really care and you certainly don't fool me. Personally, I couldn't believe how someone could have been so naive.



I think that your gravy train has come to an end and you are looking for someone to blame. Well, blame me if you like, but if I were you, I'd be taking an inward look!

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
20/08/2010 07:33

Read Para's 1, 3, then 2 - the second one didn't upload so, I had to do it again.

snakes



Joined: 28/10/2008
Posts: 1512

Message Posted:
20/08/2010 08:41

Washerman !!! there are different rules for visitors to the island even a halfwit must know this and I fit into the visitor category and am allowed to perform whilst visiting on a visa like any other visitor. the document is called "gider pusulasi" but of course you know this as you know everything etc etc ! as for "someone had access to my company e mail did it" Paul another fabrication and blatent lie and an attempt to cause more trouble for which you hold the very intelligent accolade of the longest BAN from the forum ! how very clever ! now please go away and grow up ! regards Barry

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
20/08/2010 08:49

"Halfwit" - resorting to name calling - I will refrain in this instance.



So, you are a visitor, how long have you been here? You must be visiting for a long time. Let's see what did it say in the Cyprus Today?



Fabrication, blatent lie? My wife emailed you!



I wasn't banned from the forum, I have never been banned from this forum - I just didn't post for a year (self-imposed)



Get your facts straight



Barry - I love you!

snakes



Joined: 28/10/2008
Posts: 1512

Message Posted:
20/08/2010 08:58

Hal9000 ! how nice to hear from you ! perhaps if you have a moment you could answer Mrs Snakes question to you on drummergirls post regarding me being asked to perform "Pink Floyd" at the Amphitheatre when we met (including scruffdog) at Altinkaya earlier this year which i accepted asking me to keep it "under my hat" All be it in the earshot of Dave Zerochlor. Then you make what can only be described as "snide" remarks regarding backing tracks not wanted ! you may remember you were one of many who benefitted from our studio to make your own "backing tracks" when it suited you. Double standards I would say what do you think ? you also know that I record my own "backing tracks" playing most if not all of the instruments and backing vocals. I often call it a sort of musical masterbation (playing with myself) what excuse do you use ? Thank you for your warning which is kindly accepted ! regards Barry

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
20/08/2010 09:01

BTW, I hope you have paid more attention to detail in sorting out your permit.



AND, like I have said in other threads, it is possible, but:



Obtain permit and permissions before you arrive here, 20% tax on sales - beer, tickets etc. KDV



Must have no outstanding taxation etc. etc. - Very expensive for the venue.



Your stories got more holes than a fly screen, but at least we know the route you are taking

AnthonySmith


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
20/08/2010 09:06

There are several issues, I believe.

One is the lack of any law allowing people who want to be legal becoming "self-employed" and paying all their dues.

I've asked questions of the police this week (I know it's not them, but I know a friendly copper) and he says there is evidence there are people living here without residency permits, some of whom might well be working - as entertainers or otherwise.

They are flouting the laws. Simple as. Why should some get all their permissions and pay up and others stick two fingers up at the law?

However, I did point out that allowing a kind of self-employment would make put some of these people into the system and they would have to become legal. He said no, they would be fined part of the min wage for every day they had been in the country illegally and then deported.

I don't agree with it and am just posting it here for info.

I'm sure another policeman will have another take on it.

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
20/08/2010 09:17

Why should some people stick to the rules and pay taxes etc. - Approximate minimum 2500TL per month all told and have to incorporate these costs into their prices and then have to compete with people flouting the law, with lesser costs and cheaper prices - and they wonder why we moan???



How far do we let it go, until (like the former people at the Old Mill and others) we are drummed off the island by a load of cheats!



Let's have a level playing field - stick to the rules!

snakes



Joined: 28/10/2008
Posts: 1512

Message Posted:
20/08/2010 09:34

Washerman ! you assume far too much ! I was totally aware of the law regarding working for reward etc and am fortunate that I dont need to earn money to live here or anywhere. I have not been paid to play here as I really enjoy performing my music to people who appreciate it. Therefore I have not avoided taxes etc but now realise to even play for free is unaceptable which is the bit I struggle with, as it was ok for me to play for charities ie "Ismails arm" even a poor lady who needed an urgent operation neither of which you were involved with. Therefore any further performances I will accept a minimal amount and pay the taxes due in accordance with the "Gider Pusulasi" document. Thank you for your comments regards barry

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
20/08/2010 09:38

"COPPERHEAD ROAD"

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
20/08/2010 09:45

Being a Washerman - I know what will wash - hey, give it a go!



As for Ismails arm - When I put my contribution into the collection box at the Pia Bella, the lady gasped! Not that I would have ever mentioned this until you have the cheek to call into question my public spiritdness ! Not to mention the gigs we did for the 112 charity - ask Terry Carter whether we have done our bit.





Part of your post has been deleted for it's personal content

Simbas

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
20/08/2010 09:49

Yorgozlu - I like your posts and your sense of humour

biglugs


Joined: 02/10/2008
Posts: 157

Message Posted:
20/08/2010 09:57

This getting out of order,you are both as bad as each other,and as for you Washerman did you really have to drag up the Old Mill,what has this to do with the topic,grow up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
20/08/2010 10:01

Msg 44 , Edited for reason given

Simbas

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
20/08/2010 10:03

You just have to go and spoil every bit of fun Simbas,dont you?













***** Yep *****

MrsSnakes



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 1100

Message Posted:
20/08/2010 10:07

Paul (Washerman), you clearly and the most excuse of a 'man' on here at the moment.

You said 'you have brought this on every other entertainer and now announce - Never mind - I'm alright Jack!'

What crap spills from your mouth. 'Other enterainers', have been most supporting, via email, phone and in person. Even a lovely lady who sang in a very popular duo here, took the time to email me yesterday. You have lied on several occasions on this board in the last few days. One being that you never sent those emails to Barry and myself. In the next breath you said it was your wife, Gwen and yet your name was on the bottom as well as an email signed Gwen. So she wrote pretending to be you? You don't know me personally or



Barry but have been abusive and a troublemake all because 'barry did not want to form a band with you or Dan'. Poor Dan, I feel sorry for him to be caught in this crossifre. Cont...



Parts of post deleted for personal remarks

Simbas

MrsSnakes



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 1100

Message Posted:
20/08/2010 10:09

Cont....Paul (Washerman) You have shown yourself in your true colours.



Admin. Please close this thread. Helena.

MrsSnakes



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 1100

Message Posted:
20/08/2010 10:11

Admin. Please close this thread.

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
20/08/2010 10:12

OK Simbas, but there was no swearing or insults in the post, please confirm.



Mrs, Snakes - I love you too!









No swearing , but your remark was personal and is against board rules

Simbas

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
20/08/2010 10:13

Washman , from what i am reading you have turned this topic into something personal against a fellow member . i am closing it for that reason





You have an e-mail

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
20/08/2010 10:13

msg 51;

Whats the big deal in closing a thread when you can easily start up another one?

proger1



Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 2919

Message Posted:
20/08/2010 10:13

Barry,

If you have found a way for you to perform as you obviously love to do, congratulations and I hope I get another chance to see you soon.



Washerman,

I have no interest in the legalities of the situation (outside of the fact that I will miss seeing friends of mine perform) because I am not a performer and neither can I hold residence status even if I wanted to. What I would point out is that, you seem to be stating that everything in your situation is above board and legal and that you think it is unfair that others are not. My question is, do you have the definitive statement of what everyone in every given situation requires. It seems that just to get a residency requires different rules for different ages, nationalities, marital status, employment status, disabilities. Why would you think that the entertainment taxation would be so much simpler.

Granted that it might be very expensive and not viable for some but until we know the answers, why attack.



Paul

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
20/08/2010 10:13

This thread is now closed. Reason: Thread was against the forum rules.

MrsSnakes



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 1100

Message Posted:
20/08/2010 10:13

Admin. Please close this tread.