Talat Kürşat & Co Law Firm falsely using ISO 9001 logo

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
25/08/2010 14:50

Pauline Read's sleuthing persona has uncovered dirty dealings, read more at:

http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2010/08/25/talat-kursat-is-not-an-iso-9001-registered-client-of-wcs-and-never-has-been/

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
25/08/2010 15:33

It also says on the web site they are members of the English Bar, they are not, it has been reported!

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
25/08/2010 16:08

so what does that tell you about their integrity and about the system that allows their lawyers to lie with impunity?

jillyjugs


Joined: 21/07/2010
Posts: 80

Message Posted:
25/08/2010 17:09

given they deported gez over a city and guilds certificate will they do anything about Talat Kursat ??

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
25/08/2010 17:26

This is where NCFP came in almost a year ago to the day http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2009/08/30/hairdressers-part-2/

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
27/08/2010 08:28

A law firm lies and no one is interested!

millzer


Joined: 12/04/2007
Posts: 978

Message Posted:
27/08/2010 08:32

malsancak - its not news that a law firm has lied now is it !?

AnthonySmith


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
27/08/2010 09:17

Very one sided, virtually a lynch-mob mentality to that. What does Mr Kursat say for himself? As I understand the laws of libel exist very much in the TRNC.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
27/08/2010 09:43

AnthonySmith, the accusation was made by the company that were supposed to have issued the certification! If you have a problem with believing that NCFP would risk a libel action then phone their number below:

"Hi

Finally I can write to you about this company. Mehmet Ali was trying to connect with the company since Monday but he couldn’t reach company representatives (it’s been said that they were in court etc.). So he sent them a warning letter about not to use our logos but they did not respond our calls or fax. Mehmet Ali called our lawyer today, he said that we can’t do anything about this situation because we don’t have a branch or brand registration in Cyprus. So we can’t do anything about this, maybe you can do something.

Kind Regards.

Burcu Kumbay

Operasyon Sorumlusu / Baş Denetçi

WCS TRK Uluslararası Belgelendirme Hiz. Ltd. Şti.

Kervangeçmez Sk. Eser Apt. No:20 D:8 M.Köy-Şişli / İstanbul

T: 0212 213 82 32-33 F: 0212 213 82 34

http://www.wcs.com.

StGeorgeI


Joined: 27/08/2009
Posts: 973

Message Posted:
27/08/2010 09:44

They used to be the lawyers for a certain Mr. Robb... nuff said!



G

AnthonySmith


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
27/08/2010 09:55

So, Malsancak, have you, as "editor" of the "newspaper" tried to contact Mr Kursat? Have you given him his right of reply? Or are you just leaving it to others?

john_good


Joined: 15/08/2010
Posts: 176

Message Posted:
27/08/2010 10:03

Öztunç advertising, advertising industry in the European Standard Quality Certificate ISO 9001-2008 certification was received.



ISO 9001 may be available in trnc



http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kibrisgazetesi.com%2Fpopup.php%2Fcat%2F2%2Fnews%2F100595%2FPageName%2FIc_Haberler

john_good


Joined: 15/08/2010
Posts: 176

Message Posted:
27/08/2010 10:04

wrong link this is it



http://tinyurl.com/2wgf6vx

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
27/08/2010 10:05

I published an article by Pauline. WCS's Turkish speaking representative contacted him on our behalf and, as you can see from their email, had no luck. AnthonySmith are you accusing me, Pauline or the WCS of lying? Have you picked up the phone yourself and checked or are you trying to drum up a lynchmob?

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
27/08/2010 10:08

JG, but not WCS the company Mr Kursat claims awarded their ISO 9001 certificate.

AnthonySmith


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
27/08/2010 10:13

I am not accusing anyone of lying. But telling the truth is a completely different thing. And the right of reply is enshrined in newspapers the world over. It is not down to me to do your job for you.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
27/08/2010 10:16

I do think the UK authorities would be calling at Mr Kursats UK office, if something was amiss. Please be careful, you hold the moral ground at the moment.

AnthonySmith


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
27/08/2010 10:17

I would also suggest that Cyprus 44 could be sued for legal with your comments.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
27/08/2010 10:25

AS, Mr Kursat has been informed and I was told that his reply was to ask Pauline to come to his office and see the certificate. Now, I notice that his website was created in 2003 so perhaps they used to have a certificate which has lapsed. ISO 9001 needs to be renewed annually and if not the logo should not be displayed.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
27/08/2010 10:25

AS, sued for what?

AnthonySmith


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
27/08/2010 10:33

Libel - you have accused someone of "dirty dealings" in this thread.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
27/08/2010 10:37

Trodo, Pauline Read accused law firm partner Akan Kursat of being involved in an illegal break in and attempted murder and now she is accusing the law firm of displaying an ISO 9001 certification without permission. The latter is hardly earth shaking and they seem to have ignored the former. What UK offices do they have?

Lazy days


Joined: 24/07/2008
Posts: 847

Message Posted:
27/08/2010 10:59

From what I believe ISO9001 is a certification awarded to companies on satisfying certain criteria and on payment of a fee, details of those companies holding this certification and where they gained it can be found by contacting:-

Michael Brophy

Certification Europe

Block 20A Beckett Way

Parkwest business park

Dublin 12

Ireland

Tel +353 (0)1 6429300

Their registered office is at:- Grand canal house, 1 Upper Grand canal St. Dublin 4, Ireland Reg No 303792.

Again as I believe it, Certification can only be used legally in the country of issue

E-Mail:- mbrophy@certificationeurope.com

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
27/08/2010 11:08

Lazy Day, the logo on Mr Kursat's website shows it has been issued by World Certification Services in Liverpool and the Certification Officer is Harry Slocombe, with whom we have communicated - http://www.world-cert.co.uk - and who helped us and who instructed their Turkish Office to make representations to the law firm on our behalf and who were ignored.

john_good


Joined: 15/08/2010
Posts: 176

Message Posted:
27/08/2010 11:16

A law firm lies and no one is bothered they are lawyers so its mals fault for publishing details of his incompetance

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
27/08/2010 11:19

I've just been sent a link to more shocking information about Mr Kursat's past dealings http://tinyurl.com/24tzfcm

Lazy days


Joined: 24/07/2008
Posts: 847

Message Posted:
27/08/2010 11:20

Mess 19 Malsancak

ISO 9001 Does not necessarily need to be renewed anually, there are certain criteria incl amount of staff, number of branches etc

Hope this helps

PompeySmiths


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 26

Message Posted:
27/08/2010 11:23

If you want to know who can issue ISO 9001 certificates, and in what countries and against specific industries they can be issued, check the definitive information kept on the http://www.ukas.com website about accredited certification bodies. UKAS are the executive agency and part of the DTI.



I work for an accredited CB and didn't think the subject of ISO 9001 would ever stir up so much interest!

john_good


Joined: 15/08/2010
Posts: 176

Message Posted:
27/08/2010 11:30

so you can say you have a city & guilds but have not and you get deported but say you have a f ISO 9001 and no one is bothered ???

Lazy days


Joined: 24/07/2008
Posts: 847

Message Posted:
27/08/2010 11:36

ISO Accreditation as mess 28 says does not carry as much weight as the users here like to pretend it does

Earlybird


Joined: 28/04/2009
Posts: 816

Message Posted:
27/08/2010 11:39

Re msg 29, a very good point because Jez was actually an excellent hairdresser!

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
27/08/2010 11:58

ISO 9001 is supposed to be awarded for good management, including good record keeping, and if you read the link in msg 26 about what happened to Sandra Kocinski you'll get an idea why the award seemed inappropriate. Normally, if a company were to falsely claim this certification it would be no big deal but in the case of a law firm it's not the award that counts its their integrity when handling vast sums of money, for example. Again, I ask you to read this link http://tinyurl.com/24tzfcm

john_good


Joined: 15/08/2010
Posts: 176

Message Posted:
27/08/2010 12:18

http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/20835.aspthats what was said about city and guilds.



in the case of a law firm it's not the award that counts its their integrity and one must question why they need to perport to be accredited when they are not ??

crofter


Joined: 16/12/2008
Posts: 1035

Message Posted:
30/10/2010 18:00

Did anything get resolved regarding all the things that this firm was alledgely doing wrong?

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
30/10/2010 18:56

Iso9001 and Iso2002 does have to be reviewed every year to ensure all is being adhered to and to ensure all record keeping is upto date. In some parts of industry companies will refuse to deal with companies who does not have ISO in situ.



Iso had also been used in the care sector such as care homes to show acreditation status .

johndp


Joined: 08/09/2009
Posts: 497

Message Posted:
30/10/2010 19:03

Pipie can you verify that company's you sing from the heavens have updated their ISO ?? reply please with correct answer dated !!!!

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
30/10/2010 19:10

Yes johndp I can verify this, I have connections in business where it is of the utmost importance Iso is in situ otherwise no dealings can be pursued .

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
30/10/2010 19:12

Not according to Mo Ghaus' email



From: Mo Ghaus

Cc: "harry@world-cert.co.uk"

Sent: Mon, 11 October, 2010 10:39:19

Subject: RE: TALAT KURSAT ILLEGAL USE OF ISO9001



Dear

Many thanks for the routine updates we are taking steps to have our logo removed from their web site.

Thanks and regards

Mo

Lazy days


Joined: 24/07/2008
Posts: 847

Message Posted:
30/10/2010 21:36

pipie

without seeming to be too rude (god forbid) you seem to have put your size 5/6/7/ ?? in it again, I have never in my life come across someone so self opinionated as you, is there anything that you dont know about or have an opinion on/of, even the freemasons have not escaped your knowing. ?? you have PERSONAL knowledge of soooooooo much we must bow to your superior intellect, I am so glad that you can PERSONALLY verify that Talat Kursat are legallY using ISO 2001



Mods

All of the above is said not tongue in cheek but with the utmost respect for a supreme being amongst us

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
30/10/2010 22:10

Hi L/d



You appear confused no way did I say Talat Kursat are using ISO .



If you could kindly read my posts again please and apoligise accordingly .



If any company do not adhere to all standards regading the ISO and fail to put all in situ by a said date. Then the said acreditation is taken away, and the company cannot use the logo as a symbol that they have previously used to indicate they have acheived the standards .



My messege 37 was posted on my past and present experience in the UK regarding companies gaining the Iso status.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
30/10/2010 22:29

I am at a loss to understand why there is so much concern over ISO certification.

Everyone that understands the system knows that it is just an auditing tool for confirming that all records are kept. It does not make any company responsible for the decisions it makes all it does is that it (should) make sure that there is a recorded 'paper' trail of every transaction that takes place.

That does not make a good company.

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
30/10/2010 23:02

AJ



ISO gives companies a seal of approval that systems are in place and as you say a proven auditing system which is traceable. That gives some indication that a company has strived to do this to which has to be taken into consideration if a company is up for tender, or in competition to win contracts, as having the ISO acts as reaching certain standards.

However AJ yes I agree the company then has to stride furthur to acheive good customer services and all the rest that it takes for that company to reach getting a good reputation for being a good company.

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
30/10/2010 23:29

Ah AJ



The Paper Trail is very very important, any company who are honest and responsible (certainly a Law company) in any Country, if they are advertising they have an ISO certificate, must have that paper trail available for auditing!



Does Mr Talat Kursat and son Mr Akan Kursat? have their paper trails ready to be audited by any straightforward honest Government Agency (not a TRNC one)! (either Turkish or UK would do for me) the TRNC cannot police themselves! (they are not capable of any honesty whatsoever) or AJ do you think otherwise?



If they have their paper trails ready "that makes a good ISO company"! It seems that the ISO have some reason for wanting Mr Talat Kursat & son Mr Akan Kursat removed, what that reason is remains to be seen!



Auditing tools are very important, and for any Law company to advertise they are a member when they have been struck off (for whatever reason) in any civilized country is fraud.

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
30/10/2010 23:34

you can check to see if they have a valid registration through the registration number



If they have had their accreditation removed it must due to a serious non-conformance I think this process does take a while as you get warnings prior to it being removed.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
31/10/2010 13:18

Conversely there are lots of other companies that are not ISO registered and provide a good service for their customers. People need to understand that ISO certification does not provide security.

AJ

measey


Joined: 07/02/2009
Posts: 1037

Message Posted:
31/10/2010 13:39

AJ. Is it not Bulls---.



Measey.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
31/10/2010 14:42

AJ, the thread is about a Law Firm that appears to be misrepresenting its ISO9001 certification status, according to a representative of the awarding body. It appears that this is not important to the TRNC legal system and that is not a good advert for the TRNC.

DeaconB


Joined: 13/07/2010
Posts: 120

Message Posted:
31/10/2010 16:52

If an advocate will lie about qualifications he lie about anything else, a liar is a liar and that is all there is to it. Crooks prefer crooked advocates.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
31/10/2010 17:21

So was Talat Kursat's company ever ISO registered? My guess it was and my guess is that they are still running their company the same way that they did when they gained ISO accreditation. Please tell me if you think otherwise.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
31/10/2010 17:28

AJ, whether it ever HAD such accreditation, or if it had and still 'runs the ship' as per ISO9001 standards is IRRELEVANT



Either the firm is, or is not ISO accredited.



I'd worry FAR more about a firm claims something it isn't and doubt ANYTHING they claim.. for a LAW firm to misrepresent is truly alarming.

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
31/10/2010 17:36

mmmmmmm exactly the point I think AJ is right as well just because you are not ISO registered doesnt make it a bad company.



What is more worrying is that a company as you say is claiming somthing that is incorrect especially a law firm

Fawsley


Joined: 01/05/2010
Posts: 59

Message Posted:
31/10/2010 17:50

just one question : How did they lose registration?



If an organisation has gained registration, they are audited once/twice a year. If they receive major non-conformance during this audit and fail to correct them to the satisfaction of the auditing body then it is possible to lose the right to display the registration logo.



The old BS5750 standard (the fore runner of ISO9001) was a case of "say what you do and do what you say". ISO 9001 is more about customer satisfaction; so in theory is a more reliable indicator of a good organisaton.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
31/10/2010 17:58

Mark

I have asked a question and based on the answers I get will determine my attitude toward the situation. I have worked for two companies in the UK that went for ISO registration and have used the approval company as cheap consultancy. After they gained their accreditation for the first year they never renewed their 'account'.

So I will ask again, did the Talat Kursat business obtain ISO certification in the first place?

johndp


Joined: 08/09/2009
Posts: 497

Message Posted:
31/10/2010 18:26

AJ dont always agree with you but

Simply put if you dont part with around £1400 per annum for the inspections you aint gonna be accredited any more it means nowt, and I know of a Co in the TRNC that obliquely claims ISO for things they never paid for so dont have, but hey ho thats life and as they say if youre gullible enuf to fall it hell mend you :0

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
31/10/2010 19:51

AJ, they obtained it and then lost it in 2008 but kept the logo despite being told to remove it. Makes you wonder if the law firm are misrepresenting themselves in other ways. I have no problem with them no longer being registered only with the issue of misrepresentation.

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
31/10/2010 22:19

AJ

Agree entirely with mmmmm,

What is disturbing is that a lawyer has deceived as regards this qualification

Claiming 9001 indicates that you have been audited by an independant body who are indicating you have reached a certain standard.

I would be wary if I found out my Gas fitter was not Corgi registered ,and if as you say it is not relevant to how well he does his job, the law or home insurance company would strongly disagree.

I would be concerned as to why a gas fitter or lawyer were unable to qualify,or why a doctor was removed from the BMA but twice concerned that they lied about it .It is their right not to register, but for my own safety its my right to know that and draw my own conclusions.





'fraud is an intentional deception made for personal gain or to damage another individual'

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
01/11/2010 07:49

Poor Mo of NQA is still trying to get them to remove their logo. Of course an ethical person would have

immediately, then of a course an ehtical person wouldnt have substituted aother logo when they no longer

had the right to use NQA's and then went back to the original when found out.



It has to be said that they did have right between Jan 2006 and Jan 2008, but now definitely do not.



I wouldn't be surprised if once they were members of the English and ROC bars, the point is they are

NOT now, but still make the claim that they are now. YOu see it is all in the perception, I used to be so I am.

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
01/11/2010 07:56

07.51 A.M.



i POSTED THE ABOVE AND THEN i THOUGHT, MAYBE i AM BEING UNFAIR, MAYBE THEY HAVE HAD AN

EPIPHANY AND DECIDED TO DO THE RIGHT THING AND REMOVE ALL THE FALSE CLAIMS -NAH-

JUST CHECK, STILL THERE.



NO CHANGE THEN



in fairness THEY are member of the TRNC Bar so they are legally able to practise here, so one wonders

why bother with the other claims.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
01/11/2010 20:09

Remember the poor BRITISH hairdresser that ended up in prison for claiming that he had a NVQ level 3?



Discrimination?????

Fawsley


Joined: 01/05/2010
Posts: 59

Message Posted:
01/11/2010 20:24

To AJ



bodies when assessing an organisation for compliance to and international standard ISO9001, ISO14001 or OHS18001 do not act as consultants they assess the organisations management system to ensure compliance to the relevant standard and check the records of that organisation to ensure that their internal systems are being complied with.



Most of the reputable bodies have their own consultancy divisions and would not do free consultancy. The assessors assess and the consultants charge for advice.



There are a number of non regulated bodies that offer an “off the shelf” system and say that it complies with the relevant standard; in my opinion it is unlikely that this would help the receiving organisation to improve their management systems or more importantly the quality of their products or service.



So, if the organisation received an initial registration then it would be pointless not continuing unless they failed to maintain the required level of commitment and th

Fawsley


Joined: 01/05/2010
Posts: 59

Message Posted:
01/11/2010 20:25

There are a number of non regulated bodies that offer an “off the shelf” system and say that it complies with the relevant standard; in my opinion it is unlikely that this would help the receiving organisation to improve their management systems or more importantly the quality of their products or service.



So, if the organisation received an initial registration then it would be pointless not continuing unless they failed to maintain the required level of commitment and the registration was removed due to major failings.



If they bought an off the shelf system and then failed to achieve registration then that’s where it stops, no certificate.

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
01/11/2010 20:25

Be fair Bradus, you may never recover from a bad hair cut!!!!!!!!!! Yes bally ridiculous. I wonder how many

Turkish or Turkish Cypriot hairdressers are harrassed that way?

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
01/11/2010 22:56

Fawsley



ISO9001 is an extremely prestigious certification and is subject to ongoing monitoring. If you fail to meet the

very high standards set, you will be deregistered. if you fail to pay your subscription, you will be deregistered.

We have no way of knowing why they were deregistered, but they were. Why after deregistration did they

display the logo of another authorised registration body and not the one they registered with if the intent

was not to mislead, and why, when questioned about it did they change the logo back to the company that

had deregistered them, claiming that the false logo was a mistake. It is all very confusing.



NQA are still making every effort to get them to remove the offending logo. Why not just remove it, frankly

I dont think it makes one iota of difference to the amount of business they attract, so why bother with it at all.

Other advocates do very well without all the frills and as an established firm, so will they.

Fawsley


Joined: 01/05/2010
Posts: 59

Message Posted:
02/11/2010 20:09

pollymarples



many companies only go for ISO9001 as a marketing tool but, as you say if they are achieving no benefits why do they bother.



Possibly with all the poor publicity they will now remove the logo from their advertising after all this time it can't be doing their credibility any good.

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
11/12/2010 20:21

have they removed the logo..???

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
12/12/2010 10:03

apc2010 No and are you bored?

Fawsley


Joined: 01/05/2010
Posts: 59

Message Posted:
12/12/2010 22:00

all quality specialists are boring.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
13/12/2010 00:33

Question that occurs to me is, what legal qualifications do these individuals actually have, where were they obtained and how far would those qualifications count towards being a qualified solicitor/barrister in the UK?