Am hoping to buy a property in North Cyprus but need advice

Dreamydiver



Joined: 30/08/2010
Posts: 306

Message Posted:
30/08/2010 19:33

We are researching as much as possible about purchasing a RESALE villa but, the more I read the more I find myself confused!



We have put an offer in on a villa built 2005 & purchased as an investment by the current owner. He has never lived in it.



My queries are:



[1] what type of title deeds are the 'best' [as in most secure] & what are ones to be avoided. I thought a property or land owned by a foreigner pre 1974 was the 'best' whereas purchasing land or property with a Kesin Tasarruf should be avoided.



[2] If the seller's name appears on the title deeds does this mean I don't have to pay KDV [VAT]. The seller isn't a professional vendor & hasn't, to my knowledge, sold any other properties this year so I'm hoping this will mean we save a chunk of money.



[3] We would appreciate recommendations re honest / decent solicitor. We don't want to do anyone out of what they are entitled but we also don't want to be caught out.



Any help/advice would be FAB!!



thanks, Bernice

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
30/08/2010 19:41

Bernice....I realise that this is your first post but please,please,please read the numerous previous posts about the dangers of buying in the TRNC.

You are not safeguarded by the law,irrespective of the type of title deed/property you buy.



Type your keyword queries into the Search box at the top and a whole world of information will open up to you.



Read everything , and then make an informed decision.



And finally, if the property has Pre-74 Turkish Title Deeds then as a foreigner you will NOT be granted Permission To Purchase and will therefore never get title deeds in your name.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
30/08/2010 19:46

You will not get PTP on Pre 74 Turkish Title deed. Do not touch this deed unless you are happy to pay all your money but never own your property. People will tell you all sorts of rubbish, like this is only when its near military or restricted land but in truth its all Pre 74.....as many on this forum have found out to their costs.



Be aware that the system gives no protection to buyers, mainly because of the lengthy time it takes to get your PTP and also the vendor has no legal obligation to hand over the deeds, even though you have paid in full. He can then take mortgages out or you can discover memorandums on the property. The bank will then seize the property and auction it and you can do sod all about this as its all legal and above board. Nothing ethical or morally right about it...but legal under the TRNC's laws.



People are demanding a "no kocan, no money" policy. This is the only secure way of buying in the TRNC.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
30/08/2010 21:30

Take it from another diver [who has only lived in Cyprus 30 years] the above posts are the best advice you could possibly get.



If you start believing, sellers, advocates [solicitors NOT], estate agents [land sharks], or 'my cousin is as honest as...', you had better be prepared to lose your money with a big smile.



Buying a resale gives you no more rights/protection than anything else - take it from me, who lost half my life savings through the TRNC law system and was refused PTP [permission to purchase] by this sneaky, dishonest government on pre 1974 [genuine] Turkish Title, for which I paid in full - only to be told 2 years later that I can never own it.

tomsteel


Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 482

Message Posted:
31/08/2010 09:41

No Kocan - no money or just rent, DO NOT BUY. Take it from one going through the mill here. We had no estate agent involvement, used a reputable (sic), large Nicosia-based developer, reputable advocate (he left the firm and they then lost our file - oh really!), now PTP secured only to find developer replaced the mortgage (he had previously removed it for us to sign the contract) the very day he handed over the keys to the house. We now await our advocate getting his act together (after nearly 2 years of promise, but little action) to approach the developer to remove the mortgage and give us our Kocan. There is neither ministerial nor legal protection for ex-pats.



All of the above msgs are sound advice.

Arek Naw


Joined: 29/08/2008
Posts: 75

Message Posted:
31/08/2010 10:50

So many messages state that PTP will not be given on pre-74 Turkish title, but what about pre-74 foreign kocan. Are the Turks going to snaffle those too?

Dreamydiver



Joined: 30/08/2010
Posts: 306

Message Posted:
31/08/2010 10:56

Oh dear ....sound advice and plenty for us to consider, so thank you so much.



I did have a sleepless night worrying but, haven't discounted continuing as there are 'happy' ex-pats in TRNC, people have gone through the tangled legal process & come out the other side reasonable sane ....haven't they??



BUT forewarned is forearmed.



I haven't received any info on advocates used who HAVE been effective [my cousin wouldn't rec; the one she used] so this is another oh-er area for us. Looking at Naomi Mehmet Assoc ....does anyone have anything to say about them?



We feel in love with the country, the people [there are 'crooks' in ANY country], the weather & the whole shabangle! Yes, there appear to be things not so good; litter [OMG!], driving 'techniques' and of course the 'delicate' North South debate before you even start to think about the legal issues but my scales still dip in favour of that holiday villa.....



Am I still a mad fool???

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
31/08/2010 10:58

We are both non tc's.

We have our kochan and ptp on pre 1974 Turkish title. Just check when buying this type of deed that you are not buying in an army restricted area.

If the seller is on the kochan then they should have paid the VAT. but you will have small taxes on any purchase to pay.

Is the seller an expat? if so to be on the kochan they have been issued their ptp, if thats the case then there should be no problems with you being granted it also.

Gurken and Gurken in Girne is who we used, i couldn't fault them. Others have not had such good experiences and all lawyers here are much the same. good and bad reports so just choose one you like and take your chances.

daisy dukes


Joined: 06/09/2008
Posts: 3815

Message Posted:
31/08/2010 10:59

If you'd like a little village house, mine is available...only 50k....and ptp is available too...



DD

tomsteel


Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 482

Message Posted:
31/08/2010 12:29

You have others' experiences and views; now it is your decision. The vast majority of TCs are fantastic - friendly, helpful, genuine and generous. However, you have been advised about house purchase and the many pitfalls. 'Buyer beware' springs to mind. Good luck whatever you decide.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
31/08/2010 13:05

Dreamydiver wrote, "there are 'crooks' in ANY country"

But the difference here is that in some cases crimes are legal, e.g. mortgaging a property you have sold, and has been FULLY paid for, and then not making a single repayment.

eagleyemonkey


Joined: 21/03/2010
Posts: 184

Message Posted:
31/08/2010 13:16

Daisydukes please could you email me more about your home for sale, location, photos etc

hmickthebrick@ntlworld.com

Ballyboffin


Joined: 25/08/2007
Posts: 903

Message Posted:
31/08/2010 13:20

blade,



We also have our kochan on pre-74 Turkish Title. In our development, there was only one other non TC to get theirs. The other 3 British people who bought their houses after us have all been refused for the usual 'Military Reasons' The rest of our neighbours are TC.



As I understand it, if I sold my house to a foreigner they would not be allowed PTP either. I hope that I am wrong and you are right.

daisy dukes


Joined: 06/09/2008
Posts: 3815

Message Posted:
31/08/2010 15:23

eaglemonkey: you have mail.



DD

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
31/08/2010 15:34

Ballyboffin,

i have also heard about this on another estate which is on the so called exchange land. My friends neighbour was granted their's, but all the rest of the expats in the street were refused. So its not just on the pre 74 kochans.

I think its just research things the best you can then its down to luck.

We purchased resale and the seller's were also expats, we had no problems either getting ptp or our kochan sorted out.

This is interesting, which year did you recieve yours?

Ballyboffin


Joined: 25/08/2007
Posts: 903

Message Posted:
31/08/2010 17:11

blade,



We have had our kochan for 4 years and waited almost 2 for it.



It's interesting that you bought resale from expats, when was this and how long before the kochan was transferred to your name? I had heard that there would be no more PTP's granted for pre-74 TT to foreigners, whether resale or not.



Of course this could be another 'Cyprus Rumour' but we were told that we could only sell the property to a TC as they were the only ones now able to get permission on the land.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
31/08/2010 22:39

Ballyboffin,



thought these articles might help answer some of your questions regarding PRE 74 Turkish Title.Read first page then check out what this well respected lawyer is saying by clicking on Laws and Rules then going to the conundrum of law and read the question on buying PRE 74 Turkish Title. Would you take a chance knowing that several on the forum have been stung and that some of the more respected advocates are now coming clean?



I bought PRE 74 having been assured that it was just the rumour mill. I learned the hard way and would not wish to see others come unstuck.



http://www.ipb-magazine.com/en/articles/north-cyprus-government-refuses-hand-over-deeds-buyers

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
31/08/2010 23:08

My advice dreamydiver is



DO NOT BUY ANYTHING WITHOUT THINKING long and hard and when you have thought long and hard.............................................



NO KOCHAN, NO MONEY!

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
31/08/2010 23:12

Dreamydiver,



no one is saying don't buy. Just follow the "no kocan, no money" rule. You hold the cards............property market is dead and it is certainly a buyers market. Have the confidence to call the shots.

Dreamydiver



Joined: 30/08/2010
Posts: 306

Message Posted:
01/09/2010 13:11

Hope this gets through to Bradus......



thank you for some encouragement. I was beginning to wonder if I should run a mile because NO ONE seemed to have a happy experience buying in TRNC.



Would it be fair to say all I'm hearing are the bad things simply becuase they are SO bad? It's been great that people are willing to share their experiences with others ....there must be more Forum memebers with positve experiences??????



goodwill to everyone

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
01/09/2010 14:57

some have had no probs at all and very happy but even doing your homework and having good solicitor makes no differance. When buying and waiting for PTP the kocan is in someone elses hand and thats one of the majot problems . If somewhere out there the present kocan holder owes money and goes to court and wins and then places that judgement on the koan holders assest ie the property you have bought you then will not get your deeds unless the debt is paid b y someone!!!



No matter what the solicitor tells you this can and is happening it may not happen to you but you certainly need to be aware.



and when you do have a problem you are not protected at all despite having your contract.



there are ways round having to wait for your PTP but will cost you but maybe not as much as it would if things went wrong whils waiting



just another opinion but bradus is spot on with her advise

tomsteel


Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 482

Message Posted:
02/09/2010 13:11

Ref msg 20 - Dreamydiver, you sought opinion and views - this is what you received and in my view, the advice offered by the vast majority of respondents is sound. Vendors, estate agents, advocates et al will all tell you there are no problems when in reality, there are fundamental, and possibly very expensive, pitfalls awaiting expat buyers. HM Government even advise about purchase here.



At the very least - no deeds, no money!!!

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
02/09/2010 22:04

For those that bought pre-74 TR / Foreign deeds - get 'em registered at the RoC land registry



I would LOVE to see what the Courts would make of a case where a an EU citizen was refused full title having demonstrated other locals got it ....

dataman


Joined: 14/06/2010
Posts: 61

Message Posted:
02/09/2010 23:39

Don't bother buying, it isn't worth the grief !!

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
02/09/2010 23:44

Dreamydiver,



Are you in the UK? If you are please join us outside the Turkish Embassy in London on the 4th October, we will explain everything to you then face to face!

chocoloco


Joined: 01/09/2010
Posts: 43

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 07:33

I can not believe the amount of people who continue to bring down KKTC, please please please leave the country if you don't like it. If all you can do is put down the country then do not live here. It is hard enough having to deal with the greeks putting us down in the EU everyday. This is a very very hard situation the country is in. The world has never seen an issue like this before. But one thing i will say that is Turkey will not give one inch of KKTC back to the greeks. There are hundreds of millions of pounds being spent building hotels on the same land that these people are talking about. Yes there are issues research into buying before you purchase. Yes you should only buy with a kocan. But please stop bringing the country down.



Thank you,



D

MartinM


Joined: 03/10/2009
Posts: 166

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 09:19

Hello Chocoloco



6 months is not a very long time to have lived here. I would really like to hear your personal views after say 5 years. Whilst I support your general argument that the GC's are masters at negative propoganda , my personal view is that the Turkish Cypriots are masters at killing the Golden Goose, whatever form it may take. Property, Tourism, Foreign Investment, Environment............................ to name a few. It is not the "Foreigner" that is bringing the country down. We are managing that all by ourselves.

MartinM


Joined: 03/10/2009
Posts: 166

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 09:21

Hello Dreamydiver

Rent first, and think very very carefully about buying.

proger1



Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 2919

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 09:32

I agree with many comments about renting first, then go and buy, I really don't think you are going to go into this blind, especially with all the negativity that is posted on this forum. Funny thing about most of the brits you fiind in NC, they don't post on here because they think it is a silly place with silly peoples comments, I am obviously not one of them but when I am in NC, I tend to actually go out and get the real information from live people and not rely on comments on here.



Rent for a while, go out and meet people, it is not that hard to find someone who has managed to get thier property without too much hassle and some who say it was completely painless, they will give better advice in MY opinion than the ones on here who can only warn you about what went wrong.

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 10:02

So where is that link then?

Where the goverment went on record saying this?

Well respected lawyer? Is this a TRNC lawyer?



Bally I will dig the kochan out and let you know.

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 11:01

hChocoloco



why dont we leave the country if we dont like It! Are you that unintelligent how can many leave if they dont like it as most have lost their hardearned money to a corrupt system and even though they may not own thir home its the only home they have to live in.



As for pulling the TRNC down of course people are going to complain about a government that could stop this scandal going on.



We bought here knowing the politics and the land situation knowing there may be some compensation payable we took that risk . We did not know we may have our homes and our money taken from us by the corrupt system that is allowed to flourish and could be stopped immediately.



Of course theres many hotels being built more casinos more money



More nightclubs more monies bla bla bla so why do they have to worry about the people loosing their homes and money they put into the system



there are many political isssues as you know with this island and by that I mean both sides

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 11:06

but there is one thing in common both sides have a corrupt system in property purchase and this is now an opportunity for this government to make a stance and reform and show how good they can be.



As for doing homework and only buy with kocan



are you really that naive to make such a comment I would love to nsee your homework and see if when marked youve got it right as somehow think you wont get the stars.



We love the island and the people Well most of them but we are well within our rights to warn people of the scandal and pitfalls that are out there. Its called caring for other people.!





Just my opinion of course and lookk forward to marking your homework

millzer


Joined: 12/04/2007
Posts: 978

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 11:14

Whilst I'd agree with advice about renting first, the OP hasn't said that she's planning to buy and move out straight away (unless I missed something!). Some ppl are wanting to buy with a view to using as a holiday home and maybe retiring in the future so for those ppl the rent option is no good unless they're already retired and or can spare the time to take 6 months or more off work to do this.



We were/are in this position, so renting would not have been an option for us. We researched as much as we possibly could and bought an apartment. Ok maybe we got lucky as our site has no mortgages on it and we (and many owners on our site) now have our deeds. Our site is on 'exchange' land so the only issue left for us is what happens in the event of a solution to the Cyprob. I personally have no worries or concerns over this but the decision we made at the very start was... "Can we afford to lose 60K if it all went pear shaped? ".. "will our UK property still be secure?" Cont'd

millzer


Joined: 12/04/2007
Posts: 978

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 11:22

Cont'd we decided that if it all went wrong we'd still be ok so we went ahead. HOWEVER, 60K was about the limit we were prepared to gamble on. If it was double that or more if buying a villa then we'd never have gone ahead. Everyone has their level of risk.



We have no regrets whatsoever and the thing we learnt was that whilst we'd have loved a villa at the time (or so we thought) and thought an apartment would only ever suffice for short holidays we were totally wrong, as we quickly realised that our 3 bed apartment is easily 'liveable' for however long we want, as indeed friends on our site have proven as they now live there permanantly. Plenty enough space for us and to be honest the annual maintenance fees are only around the same as we'd have paid just to maintain a small pool if we had a villa, plus we have a massive pool that at times we have to ourselves anyway and lovely grounds, private gym etc etc. Cont'd

millzer


Joined: 12/04/2007
Posts: 978

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 11:23

Cont'd



upshot is, decide on your level of risk and buy whatever property you can that will fit into that risk.



Good luck

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 12:32

Don't buy - RENT!!

We bought 4 years ago and we are still waiting for our house and they are not even working on it anymore. It is all going throught the courts now.

So we decided not to wait and come to live here and rent. We have had 2 three bedroomed properties with pool and gardens, fully furnished for £350 per cal month and have been very happy.

If I did want to buy here I would buy a resale as they are good value for money and you know that there will be no problems relating to buying off plan. I know of a beautiful 3+ bedroomed bouse with large child secured friendly pool, large low maintenance garden. New kitchen etc etc etc £140,000 or will rent at £400 pcm. this type of option gives you the chance to rent the property with the option to buy it.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 19:53

Great article in Cyprus Today talking about the TRNC and the government collusion in allowing people trafficking for prostitution in licensed brothels (nightclubs).

jambo


Joined: 22/09/2008
Posts: 62

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 21:11

The stats are that 68% of sales on this Island have not gone to plan! 68% cant possibly "The winging Brit Brigade"

Rent Rent Rent, this is the only way to be free and have peace of mind.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 21:32

Letter in Cyprus Today August 28th



'My wife and I have had the threat of our home (not investment package) being auctioned off for the past 8 years. That is nearly a decade; approximately 3,285 days. Any one of which could have been the day of the auction. Can anyone imagine the burden of stress placed on our shoulders?







During this period we have hand delivered our entreaties to the appropriate ministers. We have sat down with them and explained our situation. All to no avail.







In the name of justice and human rights I hope this government will do something to help the people who bought properties years ago and are now facing up to the possibility being made homeless.



I implore any persons, irrelevant of race or creed, to fully support any poor souls who find themselves facing auctioneers. Do not make a bid that will only bring misery and homelessness.



Name & address supplied.'

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 21:33

I posted the link with instructions but to make it easier I will copy and paste the lawyers statement.

Pre-74 is supposed to be a safer buy



Pre-74 is supposed to be a safer buy

We have been advising people to buy Pre-74 Turkish Title Deeds, but now we hear of people being refused permission to purchase. Is that right?



"Yes, lately there have been speculations that the government has some secret policy of rejecting permission for non-citizens to purchase on Pre-74 Title land. There is no official legislation or ruling that states any restrictions on this land and when we, or other colleagues, ask the government they say that every application is evaluated on its own merits. But, there is a trend in the application that are being refused and it seems that most, if not all Pre-74 Title Deeds, are being rejected.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 21:36

The only reason given is that it was rejected by the military. This is a very broad reason which doesn't explain anything. We know that some of the big developers here are trying to challenge the government on this, as of course it is having a big effect on them. They have invested heavily in Pre-74 Title, thinking that it would be a much safer and attractive title to sell. They have paid a premium for this land, but are now finding that the value is decreasing because of all these speculations. If this was an open policy we could advice clients accordingly, but to just refuse the applications by the back door like this, especially after they have given building permission, is very wrong and it doesn't make economic sense for the country. Especially now with the Orams case going through The British Court of Appeals and many buyers feeling that Pre-74 land is safer to buy."

cooper


Joined: 23/10/2007
Posts: 3386

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 21:45

Our situation is pretty much the same as millzer in that we opted to buy a apartment off-plan on exchange land and have our kocan in hand, we do count ourselves very fortunate we chose a excellent builer in Kavanlar who although took longer than expected to complete it do carry out their obligations. However if we were in the same position now i would not buy off-plan again but would buy a re-sale with all services already in place.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 22:43

Cooper.



I.m really happy for you. It restores my faith to know that its worked out well for some. I also picked an excellent builder.My problem was that I chose Pre 74 Turkish Title believing that it was safe to purchase. With refusal it left me in the position of paying for the property but not owning it.



If only the government would admit to not giving foreigners PTP on this particular title deed and we would have looked at alternatives and would not have needed to sell up.



Life is an experience and I've learned so much about the property market abroad that its been a valuable experience. I have also made some good friends that I believe will be life-long friends, so even bad experiences can have some positives.



I wouldn't want others to lose money or their homes though.........and that's where I draw the line. The TRNC needs to restore faith for those considering buying. Slight changes is all that's needed.

Dreamydiver



Joined: 30/08/2010
Posts: 306

Message Posted:
04/09/2010 11:00

Re message; 33. OP what’s this?



We live & work in the UK so rental not an option for us sigh!. Villa is for holiday use for our family & not a fast buck investment.



It’s a resale, completed villa. All 22 complete, 4 left to be sold by builder before parcelisation can take place.



They have TMD TRNC shared deeds, no memorandum attached. The Pre ’74 GC owner has been in touch & is in contact with the Comp; Committee.

Builder says

“Permissions from the council of ministers issued within 1-2 years”

He has all these documents to give to us when we get a lawyer [if we decide to continue].



QUERY: If builder says permissions take 1-2 yrs, how do some people get their PTP so quickly?



QUERY: Hear ‘NO KOCAN NO MONEY’ but this sounds just as risky for the seller / lawyer as it has proved to be for too many foreign buyers.



QUERY: Who pays compensation??



So, still lots to research.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
04/09/2010 11:24

TMD Title deed was deemed to be the most risky purchase because this was land gifted to government and military officials, often from Turkey, for no payment and not for having lost land in the South. Google TMD Deeds.



Yes its amazing how many GC are in touch with the TC builders and are giving them permission to build on their land!!!!!!!!! Ask for the contact details so you can check this out with the GC OWNER.



No memorandums attached? That may be true today but what about the 1-2 year waiting period whist your PTP comes through or whilst you are waiting for deed transfer. Nobody was stupid enough to pay for a property with a mortgage or memorandum on it. Legal contracts stated that no mortgage or encumbrance would be taken out on the property. So most assumed with a legally binding contract this could not happen. Its one year later you find the memorandums have been placed on your property.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
04/09/2010 11:33

Whats risky for the seller about "no kocan, no money" Yes he would have to wait longer for payment but he will get the price agreed and all monies. Is that not what your contract should be based on?



Do not mix hospitality with honesty. They will tell you anything to get a sale.What sort of reputation does this builder have? Perhaps if you informed forum members of who he is then you might get some recommendations or negative feedback and this might help with your decision.



How do people get PTP quicker? They tell the builder I am sticking to the TRNC Governments advice and not entering a contractual agreement until I have my PTP. The builder then not wishing to lose a sale, creates a fuss at the Interior Ministry and Military (OR TAKES IN A BROWN ENVELOPE) and there you have it!

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
04/09/2010 11:34

Dreamy diver



Despite asking for advice, and then getting it from people on here who have fallen foul of the TRNC property scandals,you seem hell bent on purchasing a property in North Cyprus.



You probably reckon that as a reasonably intelligent person,you will do a lot of research or "homework",and this will protect you.It will not !



Well good luck with your purchase, and please visit this site in a few years time if and when you get PTP and title deeds in your name,to let us know how you got on.

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
04/09/2010 11:40

well said bradus and thats the exact point whils waiting for PTP your kocan is in someone elses hands and despite your contract being resgistered it may snow stop mortgages but not having a memorandum(ie a judgement that someone has won against the kocan holder ) being placed on your property. There are many iissues to consider but the wait for PTP and not having your kocan despite paying your money is now a serious problem There are ways round waitng for PTP and setting up a company very costly or in trust with solicitor aslo costly or a trusted TC to purchase for you but not without possible further problems.



Its the wait for PTP that leaves you vulnerable and even when you have paid and lived in the place for 2 or 3 years the builder as in my case just wont transfer the deeds and his attitude is take me to court so I am thats how difficult the law can be as its going to cost me and all because I wont be blackmailed into paying extra to a builder just because he can!

kaiserphil


Joined: 14/12/2008
Posts: 1096

Message Posted:
04/09/2010 12:37

"QUERY: If builder says permissions take 1-2 yrs, how do some people get their PTP so quickly?"

Do they? I suggest most people wait far longer than that, and some never get them at all. Are you taking the michael?

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
04/09/2010 12:41

Bradus,

The pre 74 land is de-valuing? Where have you been looking?, I haven't seen that happening anywhere.

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
04/09/2010 13:55

Blade.



I understand why you may not want any negative publicity about Pre-74 turkish Title on here....it could obviously affect your "investment" should you decide to sell.



However,even though foreigners are no longer being granted PTP on Pre-74 you can always do what we did and sell to a TC or someone with a Kimlik card.



As you know,they don't need PTP and the sale can be done and dusted in a couple of weeks,deeds included !

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
04/09/2010 15:33

Blade,

Blade,

I copied and pasted the above as it is what was said by an advocate and local builders regarding Pre 74. Please go read the article to get the full story. The link to the article is:



http://www.ipb-magazine.com/en/articles/north-cyprus-government-refuses-hand-over-deeds-buyers



Properties that can't sell do become devalued. Common sense. Just like people no longer wish to buy of plan because of the uncertainty and risks, people also do not want to risk pre 74 Turkish Title.

The government is now calling ALL deeds TRNC deeds and people no longer know that they are purchasing PRE 74. It is still the 100% internationally recognised deed it was sold as being, but Its the one you can't get PTP for so people are reluctant to pay for a property they now know they will never own.



HBPG is warning all buyers, British High Commission will also inform you and even some of the advocates are coming clean.



Ostrich - head - sand?

Dreamydiver



Joined: 30/08/2010
Posts: 306

Message Posted:
04/09/2010 16:51

I have received lots of information from this site to help me make an informed decision

On site I've read someone saying 68% of sales have gone badly wrong. I'm fully aware. from many of the sarcastic / unpleasant replies I've received [the least offencive being 'Cyprus Lemming' that many of contributors have gone / going through horrid experiences.



However, simple maths would indicate 32% of purchases HAVE gone through reasonably smoothly.

Because I'm trying to get into that elusive 32% do people really begrudge me asking questions, gaining knowledge?



Why on earth do people continue to 'let off steam' when newbies ask questions?

Yes I'm aware the whole purchasing process is fraught with difficulties but I'm equally nervous of ever bumping into some of you!



apologies to those who have been HELPFUL & UNDERSTANDING!

Dreamydiver



Joined: 30/08/2010
Posts: 306

Message Posted:
04/09/2010 16:57

Forgot to say, the builder I have been in contact with is Salih of Cypress Constructions [Californian Villas Esentepe].

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
04/09/2010 17:15

Dreamydiver/Msg 54:



If you require any info. regarding, builders, legal system, property, advocates, PTP, etc., you should go to the 'Pia Bella' hotel on any Tuesday lunchtime ['Surgery Time' 1300-1500Hrs] and you will receive the best advice possible from HBPG [Homebuyers Pressure Group] - they have recourse to hundreds of cases and files on them.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
04/09/2010 17:15

I have read through all the posts and can see little evidence of offensive remarks or comments.



Perhaps its the "not getting the news you so wish to hear" that is making you feel frustrated?



If after reading all that this and the other forums have to offer, you still feel that its worth the gamble. Then go for it. But you will be making an informed choice and you will be buying knowing that the law does not protect you, should you run into difficulties. There is also a need to take into consideration that it has become more unstable in the property market over the last 2 years due to the recent fall in sales leading to financial instability for many builders. People are only now beginning to discover the extent of the memorandum problem. This is all relatively new and I suspect is not associated with those (32% ?)that bought several years ago and had no problems.



The only advice you need is no kocan, no money. Read about the ORAM'S to answer questions on compensation.



Go

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
04/09/2010 17:26

should have said, Good luck on the end of the above thread.



Don't you hate this system where you can only post a thousand characters?

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
04/09/2010 18:07

msg1, dont listen to all the negative rubbish on here , if you,ve found it ,and you like it , go for it , most posters on here are missing the daily gossip at the co,op , they still watch eastenders and coronation street believing them to be real life , you do it you,re way , ENJOY KKTC . xxxx

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
04/09/2010 23:38

Message 44, 'OP' = Original Poster, i.e. you

Dreamydiver



Joined: 30/08/2010
Posts: 306

Message Posted:
05/09/2010 23:46

thank you Sienna.

As some of the posts have questioned my sainity in considering purchasing a property in the TRNC I thought 'OP' was another dig ,,,and I was being referred to an an ' old pensioner', LOL

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
06/09/2010 11:52

Dreamydiver/Msg 60:



To draw an analogy with 'diving', as far as property purchase in *Cyprus is concerned: you are dreaming of diving on the 'Barrier Reef'; but, when you wake up, you'd better realise that *this is 'Stoney Cove'!

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
06/09/2010 17:15

dreamy diver

sorry if you felt people were just a bit too angry but to be honest in some case you cannot blame them. A lovely island lovely homes its just as bradus says a lot of the new problems or scam in some of the cases is the memorandums which seriously people havent yet fully realised the implications and I hope they dont have to as there really at the moment is no protection whilst waiting for you ptp. Or you can put a charge on it costly but not as costly as loosing your home or money. Once you have made a decision and hhappy with the builder and his work and all has been checked with no mortgages go for it just be mindful to ask and do something to protect yourself from memorandums thats the best advise I can give and then enjoy



rowlo "dont listen to the gossip do it your way2 He posted a question and thats what a lot did and got into a mess its people letting others know of the ptifalls that helps As for eastenders who needs it its all here arent you in it

Dreamydiver



Joined: 30/08/2010
Posts: 306

Message Posted:
06/09/2010 23:37

Well if only that were true because I love diving at Stoney but then I always plan my dive and dive my plan! So, the cat is now out of the bag and your assumption that I'm a diver [instructor] is correct.



Guess I'm hoping to do the same here, by getting as much info as I can on the pros and cons of purchasing a property in the TRNC I can make an 'educated' decision.

gwendoline


Joined: 08/06/2009
Posts: 13

Message Posted:
07/09/2010 07:38

The best advice I could give you is don't do it! Wait a while until the situation settles down as to buy now would put you in grave danger of being ripped off. Trust noboby here, especially the lawyers and government officials. Stay away and put your hard earned cash in the bank where hopefully it will be safer. If you insist on the North Cyprus experience then come and rent for a couple of years to see if it is really for you. Once you have committed your hard earned cash you can in most cases forget about any chance of getting much of it back if you later decide the place is not for you and you try to sell.

The governments attitude and sadly the cypriot attitude (north or south of the border) to any ''outsider'' resembles that of the BNP. Then again maybe I am being very unkind to the BNP!

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
07/09/2010 08:10

Dreamydiver



You say that you are looking for a property that falls into that elusive 32%. That gives you odds of 2:1 against. Would you go into a betting shop and bet £100k on a horse at these odds ?? If you would, then go for your purchase, if not then keep your money in your pocket and maybe look elsewhere.



You say that you would not consider renting because of your situation. How about this option:



Put the money that you would have spent on a villa into a Lira savings account here - most banks are paying between 7 - 9% on these accounts. Assuming that you would be spending in excess of £100k on a villa, this would give you a return each month of around £650 after tax. You could rent a villa long term for anywhere between £350 - £450 per month leaving you with a profit of £200-300 per month. OK, you would never own the property but it would be available to you all year round and your hard earned money would still yours



Regards



Paul

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
07/09/2010 08:16

continued



If after a few years the property situation changes and you feel that you want to take the plunge, then you could make that leap of faith. On the other hand, if you find that N Cyprus is not to your taste, you could then upsticks without the considerable millstone of a property around your neck and what would have been your investment plus a tidy bit of interest.



We have rented here for 2 years and it is the best decision we ever made. The interest on our savings easily covers our rent and most if not all of our living costs.



Good luck whatever you choose to do.



Paul



Paul

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
07/09/2010 11:06

Dreamydiver: 'fiendishpaul' has just given you excellent [the best!] advice!



If you 'click' Tenakoutou on my avatar, you will see that I am holding something far more trustworthy and easier to handle than any [slippery as] Cypriot builders, estate agents, [so-called] landowners, advocates, bankers, etc.!



Have you checked out the restrictions on diving in TRNC yet?



If not, I strongly suggest you do so, in order to avoid a big disappointment!

bassman


Joined: 07/07/2010
Posts: 7

Message Posted:
08/09/2010 13:37

never change your sterling into lira and put in the bank becouse lira will lose its value everyday

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
08/09/2010 13:49

Bassman



Not true. Check the recent exchange rate history. All depends on what exchange rate you initially buy at. Also, a fluctuating exchange rate gives you the opportunity to 'play' the market i.e. change between lira and sterling when the exchange rates best suit. Has worked for me and earned me a tidy few quid over the past few months.



Paul

Dreamydiver



Joined: 30/08/2010
Posts: 306

Message Posted:
08/09/2010 23:14

oMG so much to take in!



Thank you for all the advice given; we have decided to take a leap of faith and our offer has been accepted.

We have things that we wish to clarify so whilst the game is afoot, we haven't signed anything.



All I can say that things have gone smoothly [taking the buying off plan hitches out of the equation] for approx 25% of those who have purchased on this site...ie all the people I know, Maybe the others had a similar experience too.



Renting would be a great option if we were to live in TRNC all year round [or at least for long stays] but work prevents this.

Got to sit down and go through things but ...... wish us luck please

Wireless


Joined: 10/08/2008
Posts: 157

Message Posted:
09/09/2010 00:53

Hi if it is any consolation to you we bought nearly 6 years ago - off plan - got the house 3 years ago and have been correcting building flaws ever since. A friend of mine bought in the French alps at the same time - they had / have similar problems.



This year was the first time we stayed and we all (family of 5) thought this is great!



My mistake was buying off plan - I'd never do that again - you are seeing what you are going to get - good move - you can even hold back money until you get your kochan.



Would I buy again knowing what I know now? Yes but only after seeing what I was going to get!

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
09/09/2010 03:20

why ask for advice then ignore it , were you hoping everyone would say go for it to reassure yourself ............

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
09/09/2010 07:35

Dreamydiver



My point about renting was that by investing what you intend to spend on a villa in a savings account, you could have the house 'rent free' all year round with a little bit of 'profit' on top. It would cost you absolutely nothing. It would also provide you with the opportunity and time to really 'suss out' N Cyprus and make a truly informed decision as to whether this is the place where you want to invest your hard earned cash



If you are buying a villa as an 'investment' then of course this scenario would not work for you.



I truly wish you the very best of luck with your purchase and sincerely hope that you will not be posting on here in 12 months time regretting your decision. One thing is certain, you won't be able to say that you hadn't been warned.



Best Wishes



Paul

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
09/09/2010 10:22

Dreamydiver:



Obviously, there is no dissuading you - but, let's face it, you had already made your mind up!



The advice proffered above contained experience, logic and common sense - you appear to wish to totally ignore other buyers' well intentioned concern on your behalf.



You say you 'plan your dive and dive your plan', so you should be very well aware that the very vagaries of the sport [or job] frequently prevent doing so. The same can be justifiably said for property purchase in Cyprus - especially so with the type and level of risk you are taking.



As a scuba diving analogy: I can only hope for you that the 'O' ring on your pillar valve does not blow out and you end up losing all the air in your cylinder, because the reserve air in your 'Pony' bottle will be insufficient to save you!

Woodspeckie


Joined: 25/01/2009
Posts: 2263

Message Posted:
09/09/2010 10:29

msg 73. Do you really think there will be a posting in 12 months time if things have gone wrong?

joandjelly


Joined: 24/02/2008
Posts: 2953

Message Posted:
09/09/2010 13:14

Make sure you hold back a significant sum of money pending receipt of title deeds. You say there are no encumbrances but you need to absolutely confirm this BEFORE you sign anything. If this is confirmed, then ask the builder if you can take a charge over your share of the whole site (pending parcellisation). This will cost you 1.5% of the purchase price plus whatever your lawyer charges. If the builder refuses permission for you to do this then walk away.

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
09/09/2010 13:39

Woodspeckie



I really hope that they don't have a reason to. After all what could go wrong - this is the TRNC



Paul

Dreamydiver



Joined: 30/08/2010
Posts: 306

Message Posted:
10/09/2010 00:22

Tenakoutou / APC2010

perhaps I've misunderstood the concept of C44. I thought it was for people to ask questions, receive replies and to use that advise as they see fit.

I have NOT ignored the information recieved, I have learnt a considerable amount which I will make use of. When we get to the 'signing on the dotted line' stage if we feel there are concerns we can still pull out.



Wireless

The villa is complete [as are the other 21]. 4 remain property of the builder the rest are permenent residencies and holiday homes.



Woodspeckie

You are probably right, IF we do go ahead AND things do go wrong I doubt if we will make a posting in 12 mths time. Simply because I strongly suspect we'd get condescending 'told you so' posting rather than any useful advise.



I do hope that the various complex issues too many of you still experience relating to your homes / investments get resolved as amicably as possible.

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
10/09/2010 00:48

msg62 , no , ive always lived in the real world , and you ?

littlejohn


Joined: 09/03/2009
Posts: 316

Message Posted:
10/09/2010 01:27

North Cyprus is/was the nicest place on the planet until Brit expats got involved.

How anyone with half an ounce of sense would contemplate buying property there is unbelievable given the problems with corrupt developers and builders.

That aside you have the unstable political situation.

Who knows what will happen in the future but you can rest assured expat property buyers/speculators will not be given high priority in any settlement deal with the greeks - if indeed there is ever any deal.

You're all mad!

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
10/09/2010 02:04

http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and-living-abroad/travel-advice-by-country/country-profile/europe/cyprus





do not say you have not been warned...

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
10/09/2010 04:50

Dreamydiver



Nobody is getting at you for asking for help and you indeed got it. What some might find odd is that as well as the help, you asked for advice.



Its easy, rent for a while first ,take your time during that period, to check out the system , then buy re-sale with a kocan available, do not buy pre 74.



You made up your mind to buy before you came on here, as if you hadnt, I doubt if you would have chosen a villa that had TMD title, even estate agents warn about that . ,

You also tell us ‘NO KOCAN NO MONEY’ but this sounds just as risky for the seller / lawyer as it has proved to be for too many foreign buyers".

Could you tell us who you know that got their title deeds at time of paying for villa,and what happened to them that leads you to believe its just as risky as not having deeds for 4 years and in between having your property mortgaged.











.

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
10/09/2010 05:14

cont

You ask" If builder says permissions take 1-2 yrs, how do some people get their PTP so quickly?"

There is no logic to it thats why. What do you mean by early?,Most of us dreamt of only waiting 1-2 years ,I would say the builder is doing a good job for you on that score.



As for compensation, most of us have put aside money for that. How much will be needed is unknown so far.I have allowed for half the value of the land on the presumption the Greeks cannot expect todays rate any more than we can expect to pay the pre 74 rate, it will likely be somewher in between,



Again sorry if you feel got at, but it might have been best if you had said you had made up your mind to purchase and only wanted positive feedback that backed your decision.,as it did appear you were asking advice on whether to purchase in the first place and thats what was given ,with mostly good intentions.

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
10/09/2010 07:44

Try reading NORTH CYPRUS FREE PRESS - Pauline Read's articles. One thing I can say with

certainty - you'll grow older waiting for PTP and NO KOCAN - NO MONEY is good advice.



The decision is yours and you are wise to ask advice.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
10/09/2010 10:24

Dreamydiver/Msg 78:



Until you assure contributors to this thread that you have sought advice from HBPG re. your intended purchase, you'd better include in your 'dive plan': 'diving into unknown and shark infested waters'!



If purchasing ANYTHING, the words: 'my friend', uttered by [most] Cypriots - North & South - means: 'you sucker'!



The second I hear 'my friend', I'm out of there!

GoldenCyprus


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 7

Message Posted:
03/11/2010 16:23

Please let us know if we can help: http://www.goldencyprus.co.uk

walkerscott


Joined: 13/08/2009
Posts: 901

Message Posted:
03/11/2010 16:54

http://no-deeds-no-money.moonfruit.com/

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
03/11/2010 17:05

Excellent Web Site walkerscott!

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
03/11/2010 18:07

DON'T DO IT UNTIL THIS MESS THEY CALL THE PROPERTY MARKET IS SORTED - THAT IS EITHER SIDE OF THE BORDER. iF YOU MUST LIVE HERE - RENT.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
03/11/2010 19:58

Yes, well done walkerscott.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
03/11/2010 20:41

Walkerscott - many congratulations for this informative, fair and unbiased website and for the 'links' it leads to!

maryem


Joined: 14/06/2010
Posts: 27

Message Posted:
04/11/2010 00:25

hi i need some help please.we are kktc national(watan daş).originally from pakistan.we are thinking of buying a re sale villa in ozankoy.title deeds (kaçan is in owner name)exchange deed.owner is english.what should we do. please help .

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
04/11/2010 06:09

Whatever you do - don't - rent. Better dead money than no money.

Madeyes


Joined: 22/06/2010
Posts: 8

Message Posted:
04/11/2010 23:19

I hope your not coming here for the diving Dreamy.

If so you'll be sadly dissapointed.

It's mediocre at best.

There is the odd nice dive but few & far between & nothing that will stand out in even an average diving history apart from the Zenobia.

Rob

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
05/11/2010 08:02

Madeyes - how right you are! Not only is the diving disappointing - clear water with very little sea life; but for an experienced diver who wants to explore, the legal restrictions on diving in TRNC are crippling - no doubt due to the huge Turkish military presence and the fact that so much of the coastal area is 'out of bounds'.



I had a diving business [Paphos Sponge Divers] in the South, which we ran for 11 years - we specialised in underwater photography for tourists - believe me there wasn't much to photograph! One of my partners got the ship's bell off 'Zenobia'!



If you get 'bent' on a dive in Girne, you would have to be driven up over the mountain to get to the de/recompression chamber at the Lefkosa hospital - nothing in Girne, and certainly no British bases helicopter to help you, as in the South!