Referendum day in Turkey

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
12/09/2010 07:10

The people of Turkey are set to vote in a referendum on changing the nation's constitution.



The government wants to make a number of alterations that would bring the constitution more in line with the European Union's standards.



Some critics say the changes would give the government too much control over the judiciary, others that the process has been rushed.



BBC



Maybe a good thing.... Just as long as they don't throw the baby out with the bath water... and all the jobs head to Asia and the Far East like they have done in the UK.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
12/09/2010 09:13

Hardly 'rushed'.. this change is necessary to comply with EU accession

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
12/09/2010 09:22

They've got to vote yes first....



Mark, A week in politics is a long time....

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
12/09/2010 10:41

as with many things political, this may or may not be entirely what it appears



of course the separation from the state of the judiciary, army and police

is wholly in accord with european requirements relating to turkey's

suspiciously long-running application to join the eu



however since the ak government was elected some years ago,

there has been considerable tension between it and the west-orientated

"bosphorus elite" ...the ak has islamic roots and some would say an islamic agenda

and its constituency is the pious business class, mainly in the provinces



modern turkey has quite a history of deep-state and checks on elected governments

if the above estates did not approve of what was going on



so you may think a "yes" vote will equip turkey much better in its "eu application"

or alternatively allow nicolas sarkozy to claim turkish membership is even less "appropriate"

Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
Posts: 419

Message Posted:
12/09/2010 10:44

The judiciary and the military are the voice of reason in Turkey - For example, without their restraining influence Erdogan might well have made a rash decision in the wake of the Mavi Marmara incident that could have lead to a destabilisation of the Middle East. In general I'm worried what will happen to the country if Erdogan is given more power. Probably will be a "yes" vote though :-(

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
12/09/2010 10:59

the mavi marmara business was a semi-official venture

...it ended disasterously, yet both turkey and israel have benifited greatly from it



turkey now has an unassailable pedigree as representing the downcast in the islamic

world and disposessed palestinians in particular:

think central asia and all points east in that context, and a shot against western bows

...never to take turkish acquience as a done deal



israel has gained a friend inside the eu in its about-face partnership with greek cyprus:

think an easing of eu trade sanctions, and a total ban on docking peace ships in limassol



andre

Woodspeckie


Joined: 25/01/2009
Posts: 2263

Message Posted:
12/09/2010 15:45

All Alcohol prohibited in Turkey between 6am-midnight, none to be sold in Bars/Restaurants/Supermarkets etc.,

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
12/09/2010 16:05

And should this be a surprise? very sensible I would say.



All Alcohol prohibited in Turkey between 6am-midnight, none to be sold in Bars/Restaurants/Supermarkets etc.,

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
12/09/2010 16:11

gosh woddie, the restaurants and bars will now only open from midnight until 6am/

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
12/09/2010 19:07

Early indications show 60 40 for at 7pm. 3/4 of the votes now counted

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
12/09/2010 20:13

95% of the votes counted: 58% yes, 42% no. Official result will only be announced... after the basketball games USA-Turkey (starting at 9.30 pm! TRNC time). I wonder about the mood of the Turkish military.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
12/09/2010 20:40

Tayip Erdogan is live now on Euro news giving his victory speech,

Paul.

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
12/09/2010 20:58

The Power of the Military has to be removed from the Government and the Judiciary as well as a few hundred other laws that have to be changed. That is the only way they will get into EU. Let's hope for a yes vote for everybody's sake.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
12/09/2010 21:02

Fred,

There has already been a yes vote,

Paul.

jimchris09


Joined: 13/02/2009
Posts: 547

Message Posted:
12/09/2010 23:15

I thought most people agreed that the status quo...established by Ataturk if I'm not mistaken...ensured that the Army could intervene to stop any extremist moves by the government? This has worked in Turkey's best interests in the past, has it not?

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
12/09/2010 23:19

No it has not. The constitution was last changed by the Army in the 80s to suit themselves so they cannot be taken to court for all the murders they committed during their coup. It is about time those bastards were brought to book. My Brother was in Turkey during the last one and saw truck loads of murdered activists being transported. Not one has been brought to justice at any level for all the murders.

andrew4232



Joined: 04/07/2009
Posts: 1543

Message Posted:
12/09/2010 23:35

i know which vote i would have wanted after living in turkey for the past 4 yrs under the AK party, i can now see turkey taking another backward step :(

jimchris09


Joined: 13/02/2009
Posts: 547

Message Posted:
13/09/2010 00:02

And a backward step for TRNC too...I wonder.

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
13/09/2010 00:03

Andrew, do you see this as some underhand islamisation or preparation for the EU? If it is first I agree with you but as EU approves most of these moves surely it must be the second. Is there anything in this change that is not approved by the EU?

Hippo


Joined: 02/02/2007
Posts: 2070

Message Posted:
13/09/2010 07:21

All Alcohol prohibited in Turkey between 6am-midnight, none to be sold in Bars/Restaurants/Supermarkets etc.,



Not in Alanya it wasn't

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
13/09/2010 08:44

As if they couldn't drink alcohol they'd bought before the curfew... Maybe the ban was on the consumption... it would make more sense if not impossible to police.



Maybe the voters should have each had to blow into a breathalyser before getting their voting paper.

Hippo


Joined: 02/02/2007
Posts: 2070

Message Posted:
13/09/2010 10:22

This is a sad day for Turkey, this is paying the way for a more Islamic state in direct contrevention of all Ataturks ideals.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
13/09/2010 10:47

If secularism is not enforced in Turkey and the current constitution not modernised, as befitting Western standards of 'Human Rights', the insidious increase of Islamisation in the country is bound to result in yet another coup - more trouble, instability, and to what degree of bloodshed is anyone's guess.

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
13/09/2010 11:07

The EU and the US are said to be very happy.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
13/09/2010 11:25

Maybe so, Lilli, but EU has Germany and France [as member states] to contend with, not to mention RoC, who will do anything to 'put a spanner in the works'!

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
13/09/2010 18:54

If you look at the Turkish papers today there is a map of turkey showing the areas that voted "YES" in red and "NO"are in yellow.All the Western seaboard "The westernised Educated Turks" voted a resounding "NO"whilst the rural Islamic uneducated easily manipulated Turks voted"YES"



Losers, Educated "NO"



Victorious, Uneducated Islamic Rural's "YES" ???????God is great!

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
13/09/2010 19:02

Another victory for 'the great unwashed' - sounds like UK voters, who kept voting for Labour - until they, themselves, felt that they were getting too rooted!

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
13/09/2010 20:16

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=referendum-result-will-confound-european-opponents-euro-mp-says-2010-09-13



There you go Liz,

Paul.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
13/09/2010 20:31

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=120099

Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
Posts: 419

Message Posted:
13/09/2010 20:38

Re ; message 26



Hi MartinD41,



Indeed most of the university-educated Turks did vote "no" - as I would have done, because I don't believe Erdogan should be given the power to do what he wants.



That said, I would sum up the results of the referendum somewhat differently to the way you did:



Losers : Those-content-with-life-and-at-least-moderately-well-off ... "No"



Winners : Those-not-so-comfortably-well-off-that-can-be-convinced-they-will-benefit-from-having-a-fundamentalist-government-with-more-powers-(-and-of-course-those-voters-wanting-a more-Islamic-state) ... "Yes"



After having lived and taught in Turkey for more than 15 years, I can tell you that the graduates of the religious schools (ie. the government İmam Hatip Liseleri and those owned by Fetullah Gülen) are some of the most educated graduates in Turkey ... but more often than not their pupils come from poor families ... at least those from the İmam Hatip Schools do.

newscoop


Joined: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2197

Message Posted:
13/09/2010 21:47

Does anyone seriously think the EU will entertain an even more Islamist Turkey?



Oh dear!



Burkhas at the ready.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
13/09/2010 21:50

Does anyone seriously think the EU will entertain an even more Islamist Turkey?



I for one don't think so.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
13/09/2010 21:54

Does anyone seriously think the EU will entertain an even more Islamist Turkey?



I for one don't think so.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
13/09/2010 22:15

Crumpy,

At least we agree that the poorer sector may have been somehow coersed into a "yes "vote ,I to have good friends "turkish" who live in izmir and are devestated at the outcome, which you rightly say gives Mr Erdogan a free hand .As for Lilli,s coment quote"the UK and US are pleased," un-quote. Of course they are, the US thrives on people being easy to manipulate.The US needs Turkey strategically,if that means befriending Islam in the case of a "YES" vote then thats the way they will go ,or in the case of a "NO" vote they would have reacted accordingly........Political fun and games!!!!

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
13/09/2010 23:08

Most people after being in power for so long are devestated by losing it. The same people were also happy when the Generals took over. If it is good enough for the EU it is good enough. Look forward to the day when the military is thrown out of civilian life for ever. Then they can join the EU which will please all of my fascist GC cousins living in the southern lands.

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
14/09/2010 00:12

Paul thank you I could only read one link, however after talking to friends tonight they are actually quite devasted, they feel they will loose ankara, i dont know the meaning behind this but will find out in due course. Is the EU ready for such a mass of people. Im now very confused.