Cyprus Airway's request turned down by Turkey

itsmestella


Joined: 13/07/2010
Posts: 12

Message Posted:
17/09/2010 05:03

"Turkey has strongly turned out the request on Tuesday of the Cyprus Airways to open the air corridor for Greek Cypriot commercial planes. This is the only link with Europe since 1974. Cyprus Airways planes flying north have to take a long way around to avoid Turkish air space making the flights longer and costlier.



Erato Kozakou-Markoulli , the Transport Minister said that she had lodged a strong complain with her European counterparts, demanding to force Turkey to reconsider the ban."

:(

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http://bit.ly/aqcU7Q

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
17/09/2010 06:43

If Greece and ROC removed their objection to non-stop flights to the TRNC then I'm convinced the air-space would become available...



What yours is mine what's mine is my own... They want concessions but don't want to make any.

Jefferson


Joined: 17/05/2010
Posts: 360

Message Posted:
17/09/2010 07:40

Spot on Groucho.

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
17/09/2010 08:41

On the ball again Groucho, the GCs want everything but to compromise on nothing.

Just like spoilt kids.

Would the GCs like it if every Cyprus Airways flite to London had to first land in (broke) Greece??

Geoff

Famagusta City

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
17/09/2010 09:59

The posters are reminded that it is Turkey who is 'in the dock' as they signed the 'Ankara Accord' - as part of the EU accession process.. allowing ALL EU member states aircraft the right to overfly and land - same with shipping.



There are no direct flights as IATA can't allow it because it would contravene UN security Council resolutions...



WHY are there UN Security Council Resolutions? ..Something to do with TR 'visiting' a sovereign state and 'forgetting' to leave ... and asking us to recognise 'TRNC'...



Seems to me that TR is a member of the UN, and signed an agreement re Customs Union with ALL EU member states and needs to comply .....



Hope that makes this clear....

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
17/09/2010 10:12

If I remember rightly, Turkey where about to say no to the Accord. At the last minute Britain intervened and suggested that Turkey be allowed to make it clear that this did not mean recognition of the Roc. What happened to that then?

ianwfs


Joined: 08/01/2008
Posts: 563

Message Posted:
17/09/2010 10:25

While Mark is correct, it's not quite as simple as that.

Overflying rights are enshrined in the "5 Freedoms" of the 1944 Chicago convention. Specifically the First Freedom which gives "the right or privilege, in respect of scheduled international air services, granted by one State to another State or States to fly across its territory without landing." (ICAO quote)

Although Turkey is a signatory, as it doesn't recognise the RoC, it can't grant permission. By the same token, as the TRNC isn't recognised, no countries will allow overfly rights to the TRNC.

And before we get too critical of Greece, Turkey, and Cyprus, the First Freedom in recent years has become more and more optional. The USA is a prime example. It will refuse overfly rights to individual aircraft if it doesn't like the names of any of the passengers.

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
17/09/2010 11:58

This just shows how pig headed the GCs are. They will not allow direct flights to TRNC even though their benefit if allowed access to Turkish ports would be astronomical compared to TRNCs benefit.

This is to form. In the 80's they were offered Varosa just to sit down at the negotiating table in the same room and they turned it down. Eventually they sat down in the same room without any reward. Every time they are offered it they refuse and yet they go on asking for it back. Is there a psychologist on the forum. Can they explain the stupidity of such mentality.

zcacmxi


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 388

Message Posted:
17/09/2010 14:01

As far as I remember, these things are all rewards for a "Comprehensive Settlement". E.g. in Annan or any other plan, GCs would get these things they want (Varosha, Flying rights, land, compo, etc) in return for them giving back to TCs certain rights.



However, they reject any deal then go on wanting everything.. This is understandable, as you would do the same if the UN / EU / USA recognise you as the sole international government and you never get penalised...



They want to get everything without giving anything in return. They got the EU membership saying no to Annan, so why stop?

cypruseagle



Joined: 21/06/2010
Posts: 64

Message Posted:
17/09/2010 21:12

If the boot was on the other foot and Turkey wanted to fly to the Middle East over Southern Cyprus, the Cypriots would take great delight in telling them where to go

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
17/09/2010 21:23

Mark,



I think it's also fair to say that when the TRNC last applied for permission for direct flights Greek and GC objections were paramount in this being denied... i.e. if they'd have supported the application I have no doubt the outcome would have been very different.

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
17/09/2010 21:34

You seem to have missed the whole point of my post. The fact is, before the comprehensive solution in the early 80's Varosa was offered as a stand alone reward for sitting in the same room as the TCs to negotiated. They turned it down as they claimed this would lead to recognition. And yet they eventually sat down without any reward. They have been offered both Varosa and Ports in Turkey for direct flights and and again they refused for the same reason. Just as they could not stop negotiations with TRNC eventually they will not be able to stop direct fights. Talat was originally told by the end of 2010 by the EU for direct flights. We shall see if they can put pressure on GCs to reverse their stubbornness.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
17/09/2010 22:12

Yfred re msg 12



What 'comprehensive soln' ??!! Do you mean 'creation' of 'TRNC' ;) ?



TR should NEVER have signed the Ankara Accord if they weren't going to 'deliver' ...



Example: in 2004 - when TR hosted in Ankara ... the RoC flag was flown and *Cyprus* was an entrant .. isn't it 'interesting' how TR facilitated the 'rump' RoC for a week ;) ?

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
17/09/2010 22:17

After 74, there has been many attempts at a comprehensive solution to the Cyprus problem. At the beginning The GCs used to sit in one room and TCs in another. It was at this time that Varosa was offered for the GCs for the first time to just sit in the same room and it was turned down.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
17/09/2010 22:21

TR should NEVER have signed the Ankara Accord if they weren't going to 'deliver' ...



Mmm.

I will say again - If I remember rightly, Turkey where about to say no to the Accord. At the last minute Britain intervened and suggested that Turkey be allowed to make it clear that this did not mean recognition of the Roc. What happened to that then?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
17/09/2010 22:59

Hi Troodo



I didn't mean to appear to 'ignore' your point.. but TR signed the accord.... it was a Customs Union agreement re ALL EU members .....

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
17/09/2010 23:05

Troodo you are absolutely right. That is exactly how it happened.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
18/09/2010 13:12

YFred. Is this another example of convenient amnesia towards Turkey? - surely not.