Still going on- GC negativity!

ttoli


Joined: 24/03/2007
Posts: 1172

Message Posted:
17/09/2010 22:29

Am sat at Altinkaya, couple have just arrived having flown Glasgow - Larnaca, their cases haven't arrived, ground staff very helpfull, cases will be delivered to Hotel Etc, filling form out they are asked for Hotel name etc, Staff fill out "OCCUPIED AREA" and tell them they'll have to collect in person.Thats another two that will NEVER return to the south(But already love the TRNC).

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
17/09/2010 23:04

How can you expect staff to take someone elses bags through a customs check point????

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
17/09/2010 23:08

Stubs, have you heard the words " Sorry about the fact that we lost your cases, we will deliver them to your hotel". They can check it all they like. Although I hope that the GC customs men do not get up to their usual tricks.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
17/09/2010 23:11

ER, no.. it COULD be another couple that just learnt about the farcical situation caused by proclaiming 'nation status' ...



My RoC mobile doesn't work in TR / 'TRNC' as there is no roaming agreement in place... as TR doesn't 'recognise' the 'rump' RoC...



When the 'TRNC' power stn failed.. the GCs allowed electricity to be supplied - even though- TR owes millions for electric used before 'TRNC' got it's own stn....



Yes, it's frustrating - but when some folks can't live in their own homes - it kinda seems 'silly' to moan about having to collect one's lost luggage..

newscoop


Joined: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2197

Message Posted:
17/09/2010 23:20

Blimey 6m that's a coincidence, my TRNC mobile doesn't work in the south.



How about the farcical situation caused by the mob that blew Annan?

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
17/09/2010 23:38

6M, not quite accurate I am afraid. Ask yourself why they did not send the bill? They have been supplying Electricity to some villages since 74. TRNC Eleectricity authority has been collecting the money from these people since then. Now, would you pay the bill without an invoice?

How do I know? my house is one of those properties.

EsentepeGal


Joined: 12/09/2010
Posts: 144

Message Posted:
18/09/2010 00:51

Mark, My point being, that for an Island dependant on Tourism, The Rump seem intent on pissing off pax(that have flown with their airline, paid their wages).

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
18/09/2010 03:41

http://www.kypros.org/Occupied_Cyprus/cyprus1974/turkish_invasion.htm

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
18/09/2010 06:57

Mark,



Remember these are holiday makers losing their baggage not TRNC home owners..



There is a flaw in your argument and it goes like this... you make it sound like the airlines and airports are taking a principled stand against ones holidaying in the North...



if they want to make a principled stand should they not insist on a final destination address and then turn down the business? "I'm sorry we can't accept your booking as you are holidaying in the occupied areas!" But no, they want your money... some principle.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
18/09/2010 06:59

Having said that I do think the need for the bags going through a customs checkpoint is a valid one... They should only be taken through by the owners.

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
18/09/2010 08:12

The obvious advice to TRNC residents, holiday-homers, and visitors, is avoid using Larnaca or Pafos airports.

Geoff

Famagusta City

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
18/09/2010 08:13

Compromise (In Cyprus?) solution would be to deliver bags to crossing to be carried over by owner.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
18/09/2010 09:25

Apc. Are we going to have a photo war again, it has been done to death.

The TRNC archives have thousands of photographs showing GC atrocities, most of course are before the Turkish armies’ intervention of 1974 so I suppose they don't count or never happened.



Patientia est a donum superum.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
18/09/2010 12:23

Do I get an answer?

Magbs


Joined: 26/02/2009
Posts: 278

Message Posted:
18/09/2010 16:02

Some six year ago or so I was told to come back to Vienna airport to collect my delayed luggage. They refused to send it to my hotel in Bratislava, Slovakia saying that sending staff to a foreign counrty was against their policy.



Btw, in the good old days, a delayed bag was sometimes a good thing, you could go on a shopping spree and the airline would pay for the cost of quite a lot of essentials. But these days, don't plan to benefit from your bag's delay at all. Compensation is up to each individual carrier and is not regulated by state be it ROC, UK or whatever...

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
18/09/2010 19:14

I guess I made my point.

dippersgirl



Joined: 04/05/2010
Posts: 795

Message Posted:
19/09/2010 09:51

message 4 can't live in your own home



My father lost his house and property in the Czech republic when all Germans where expelled with no recompense(this was the sticking point with the Czechs and the signing of the Lisbon treaty. Our family never asked for anything.When we had to flee East Germany, we lost everything again. We did not like it, but we have moved on.



Gc's always shout as if they're the only ones. All Hellenic people I have met, think Alexander the Great was a hero(why was he great????I read a lot about him), he wasn't even a nice person by modern standards. He conquered a lot of land, but when the Ottomans did the same some centuries later, that was soooo bad!!!



Mhhhmmmm......................e

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
19/09/2010 09:56

"All Hellenic people I have met, think Alexander the Great was a hero"



The Turks named a kebab (Iskender) after him.... sounds about right.

dippersgirl



Joined: 04/05/2010
Posts: 795

Message Posted:
19/09/2010 10:04

message 8



Wel, well. what a lot of inaccurate historical information. Even my Greek friends were embarrased. Is this website written by a mainland Greek, wanting Enosis??

If Alexander the GREAT had had modern weapons, he would have left a similar trail!!!!!!

yrret


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 761

Message Posted:
19/09/2010 10:06

If the CG's were as good at 'spin' as they are at feeling sorry for themselves for loosing what they started, they would have used this situation of the lost luggage to say:

'no problem, we only see Cyprus as a whole, and we can deliver your bags anywhere on our island'

Instead, what they have done here is recognised the division, not wanting to cross the UN line, and acknowledged that there is not only a business divide, put potentially a customs divide.

Of course any proffesional airline will deliver bags across a customs point, it's exactly what will happen when the bags arrive in the RoC and pass customs, all they need are any keys to open in case required by customs.

Now, with them knowing the owners are staying in the North, would you trust them with the keys???

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
19/09/2010 10:25

Newscoop:



The farcical situation came about when two nations - that are members of the UN and granted the UN to be peacekeepers - caused a coup / invaded and forgot to go home.. the GCs voted no to a deal they were TOLD 'was against EU HR norms and that they would get a better deal ' ......



Yfred: about the electric ..what was 'inaccurate' .. many parts of 'south' Nicosia were supplied sewage treatment from a plant now 'in the north' and when the GCs cut electric, the TCs stopped the sewage treatment... !



As you WELL know ..sending a bill 'recognises the 'institution' one is sending it to.... The 'rump' RoC ( correctly) sent the bill to TR ...



Esentepe ( Ayios Amvrosios) Gal:



'Annoying' a few Tourists who are presumably staying in 'stolen property' is not a' problem' for GCs ... ! They would regard that as 'educating' folk ignorant of the CY problem and point out various UN Security Council rulings re 'TRNC' ...

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
19/09/2010 10:35

Esentepe also Ay Kurus

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
19/09/2010 10:51

Groucho: I hardly think your average airline is going to check to final destination to see if it will cause a problem with delivery.. The 'rump' RoC would claim the tourists should 'know' !



Geoff: if we are going by your suggestion .. the 'obvious' solution would be not to go to an unrecognised 'nation' - as if anything happened during the stay - involving possible seeking of legal redress.......... well, you know....



dippersgirl: it is indeed true that many ethnic Germans got 'shafted' twice - but I'm sure you'll remember that the Czechs apologised ( Havel) and that the mechanics of compensation were destroyed by the cold war... successive German and Czech governments have quietly ( appeared ) to have dropped claims and counter-claims for reparations.. Going back to CY, some members will recall that many Cypriot families lost out twice ( or more) in 63 and 74 ..



re: Alexander / Ottoman conquests.. you make a good point !



YFred: You 'claim the GCs 'started' this... wh

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
19/09/2010 10:53

YFred: You 'claim the GCs 'started' this... when, please ? ;)

breezyboy


Joined: 14/05/2007
Posts: 1179

Message Posted:
20/09/2010 17:57

Mark,

if there is no border how can there be a customs post stopping a bag leaving across the non-border to another part of the same country?

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
20/09/2010 18:03

6Ms

it was inacurate in that there is a reason why GCs will not bill the north for electrecity, the reason? recognition.



Regarding when they started it, well it is a secret but the meeting I mention was 3 months after roc was set up. 1960 near as.



I hope that clears up a few things.

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
20/09/2010 18:07

APC/Oracle, it does not wash. You started in 63 and you paid the price in 74. Get in your car and clonk click will you, it is safer that way.



Back to the forum that they love you, dearest

dippersgirl



Joined: 04/05/2010
Posts: 795

Message Posted:
20/09/2010 18:20

Well then, if apologies make it better, then maybe TC's And GC's should apologise to each other. I bear no grudge to anybody. The past is the past and I for one do not think about what I could have had. Everybody must make their own way and move forward without constantly looking backwards. Dutch Crusader agrees I think.

zcacmxi


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 388

Message Posted:
20/09/2010 18:26

It should be remembered that the ROC was formed as a PARTNERSHIP state. The partners were the TC & GC communities. The partnership did not work out, the partners fell out.. You can search the reasons why, but the events of the 60s and early 70s are a good clue.



The partnership had already failed when Turkey came to the island. So it is worth remembering the Cyprus problem existed prior to 1974. The GCs did a good job in keeping (hyjacking) the ROC to themselves, as it has international recognition, etc, etc. The Turkey did a good job in ending the ethnic cleansing of the TCs by the GCs.



The GC political propaganda machine is very effective in brain washing people like mmmmmm in to believing all the problems started in 1974. Anybody with more time is free to look in to the facts at greater depth and go back further.

zcacmxi


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 388

Message Posted:
20/09/2010 18:31

Presenting the ROC & GCs as the innocent party in all of this, and the TCs as the villains with a rogue state dealing in stolen GC property is quite frankly far from the truth. It is denying how the TCs got to the North of the island...



By grandfather abandoned his land and businesses in Paphos in the 60s due to the violence, and moved to Limassol. From there he moved a second time to the North, even before 1974. Violence and the ethnic cleansing of Turkish Cypriots by Greek Cypriots is a documented part of the recent history of Cyprus and the reason why TCs ended up abandonning their properties in the South and moving to the North.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
20/09/2010 18:39

re 26 - 'they stated it'



But we both know that TMT and EOKA pre-0date 1960



re 25 Breezyboy



>>if there is no border how can there be a customs post stopping a bag leaving across the non-border to another part of the same country?<<



I must explain this once a month.. the EU require that the RoC implement EU immigration and customs control - it is the first place where the recognised govt can implement those controls...



IF your chose to read the Green line regulations you'll clearly come across the part where it is states :

http://ec.europa.eu/cyprus/documents/turkish_community/greenline.pdf





point no. 4/



*Since the abovementioned line does not constitute an external border of the EU*,

special rules concerning the crossing of goods, services and persons need to be

established, the prime responsibility for which belongs to the Republic of Cyprus. ..."



You'd think folks would 'know better' - but always glad to oblige ;)

zcacmxi


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 388

Message Posted:
20/09/2010 18:46

mmmmmm: You are right, these documents all state that EU support the GC point of view... In fact the whole International community UN, etc, support the ROC and not the TRNC...



Does that mean that the GCs should have been allowed to kill all the GCs and suceed with Enosis, and make Cyprus a Greek Island?

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
21/09/2010 01:32

thanks to ttoli in message 1 for warning us about this policy

...bearing in mind the republic of "cyprus" won't recognise the north,

the airport admin staff are just following the rules, tiresome as it is



but isn't this the same r.o.c. that is supposedly conducting serious talks

to er...solve the "cyprus problem" whatever that may mean for each individual:

that is incredible



and it is also a regime that one would imagine needs to build trust

...in order to coax the unwilling into some form or other of (re)unification:

taking the biscuit, surely



yet otherwise shrewd and street-clever members of this forum,

uncritically swallow tall tales about twice-rejected offers still on un-named tables,

and oh, turkey really being "welcome" to join the eu but for a little local difficulty:

I must get back to planet earth



andre

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
21/09/2010 01:39

msg 33 , is it only the "roc" that won't recognise the republic..???

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
21/09/2010 02:00

good point apc, yes the turkish republic of north cyprus is unrecognised internationaly,

so what?



we would probably agree this is because of the events of 1974 which may be seen

as a liberation or an invasion depending on which side of the fence you are on



and becuse of the continuing occupation of the north by turkey's army

...or continued protection viewed from the other direction!



all I have ever claimed is there are two ways of seeing it but most countries

tended to side with the greek cypriot cause

they are not infallible: the un condemned cambodia's liberation from the kmer rouge

and in 1982 attacked israel's destruction of saddam's atomic plant



however with the cyprus communities unable to agree on any compromise deal

you will find that patience evaporates and political blank-cheques are being withdrawn:

direct trade freeing north cyprus has at least a sporting chance of passing this time,

while the "properties" campaign ignominiously collapsed in march

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
21/09/2010 02:08

andre , sadly part from a few individuals , i think most want a solution of any kind ,be it division or reunion , but time has moved on what about the settlers moved in the 70s , what will happen..??

it is feasible that some one born here in 1975 could have a whole life here and know nothing of turkey ...



i have litttle sympathy for the the people who relocated due to a "bargain".......

negativenick


Joined: 10/11/2008
Posts: 6023

Message Posted:
21/09/2010 06:28

you don't thnk the fact they forced out of their homes at gun point 40 years ago, has something to do wth it ?

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
21/09/2010 07:18

NN



Don't you think that if they didn't want that to happen they shouldn't have let it all kick off in the first place?



In the same way, if you start a bar fight - you just might get punched back.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
21/09/2010 10:12

zcacmxi re msg 32



>>You are right, these documents all state that EU support the GC point of view... In fact the whole International community UN, etc, support the ROC and not the TRNC...



Does that mean that the GCs should have been allowed to kill all the GCs [ 6xM: TCs?] and suceed with Enosis, and make Cyprus a Greek Island?<<



The EU/ UN 'support' the FACT that the RoC is a sovereign state - I'm quite sure they don't support ethnic cleansing by anyone...



Groucho re msg 38



You have benn a member for a long time.. you'd know that GCs wee fighting each other prior to the TR 'peace movement' / 'invasion' of July .. the 'losers' were mainly pro rapprochement and NOT in favour of TC oppression.



So, many folk that lost out - Twice or even three times - didn't 'ask' for anything of the sort... :(



Sorry, but yours was a VERY generalised an inaccurate portrayal of many Cypriots...

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
21/09/2010 11:53

It looks like the EU 'generalised' with many Cypriots by allowing EU membership for RoC and reneguing on their stated promise of inclusion for TC's for their 'Yes' vote.



Just off thread for a sec. - but, please, Groucho, could you let me know re. your 3/4 guitar, as I'm still hopefully waiting... ???

breezyboy


Joined: 14/05/2007
Posts: 1179

Message Posted:
21/09/2010 18:56

mark

It is'nt the first place they can impliment in this case. That was done at Larnaca airport. They had agreed the bag should be in Cyprus- the only Cyprus they recognise. Next it was just going to go to a different part of Cyprus, again the only one they recognise. So why stop it going to a not different Cyprus??

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
21/09/2010 19:09

Mark,



Turf wars always get ugly.... you start one at your peril. To start one without the understanding that it can go both ways is naive in the extreme as history demonstrates with amazing regularity.



Half of Europe has changed hands in this manner in the last 100 years...



For rule of law read spoils of war....

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
21/09/2010 19:18

GC,s started it by trying to cleanse the TC's then lost the "battle" hard luck I say. Need to realise the Annan plan was the best deal they would have got, now will be no where near as good, what a shame!

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
21/09/2010 20:49

The 'stumbling block' for all the fair-minded, forward thinking GC's [of which I know plenty] is the church indoctrinated majority, which always constitute the majority and will, when it comes to a referendum, 'democratically' quash any viable settlement.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
22/09/2010 00:57

a recent editorial in the cyprus mail suggested both "sides" enjoy the status quo,

although the reasons are quite different



in a recent interview for the same paper our reporter got the strong impression

that eroglu was more than happy to hold onto the gains of '74: territory and security

...failiure of the gc's to compromise was playing into his hands



the south cypriots threw away power-sharing after a brief experiment 1960-1963

they voted down a deal six years ago that could have given them something back,

and their current leader argued strongly agin' the annan compromise:

cristofias persuaded them instead to use eu pressure

but although that hurts turkey and trnc... it can never "deliver the goods"



in order to deflect criticism of this shambles, the greek cypriot leader may bleat:

"the big lad will not agree a deal with us to restore kyrenia, karpaz, guzelyurt

and varosha, so now you can all see how this cock-up isn't really my fault at all!"



pass the sickbag

dippersgirl



Joined: 04/05/2010
Posts: 795

Message Posted:
23/09/2010 17:24

Love your reply!!!!!!!!!!!! Very true

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
23/09/2010 18:19

The best way forward would be a "Truth and Reconciliation Commission" as was done in RSA, but the GC's will never do this as they never did anything wrong did they?? a bit of ethnic cleansing from 1960's on? what's the matter with that? South Africa did do this very well for sure, this should have happened here 20 years ago and maybe, just maybe they could have moved on by now.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
23/09/2010 18:29

andre





i love your replies,keep em coming.



musin



long live the kktc

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
23/09/2010 20:47

thanks to dippers and musin, your remarks much appreciated



from my own viewpoint at least I try to tell it like it objectively seems to be

but would still advise readers to suspect anyone who claims total impartiality

...if they were that disconnected, why bother to pound the keyboard?



pugwash:

an excellent scheme best applied after any reconcilliation process has started;

for south africa the idea was to get the perpetrators to admit what they had done,

in order to give comfort to the victims and then re-admit the baddies to society

...it has been partially successful



the blame game has started:

exactly on cue, that master tactician cristofias, president of greek cyprus

as reported in the cyprus mail, calls on turkey to make the necessary concessions

to achieve a "settlement of the cyprus problem"



however un rep downer, has already told journalists he will apportion no blame,

and hadn't the "faintest idea" what he will say in his forthcoming report



andre

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
23/09/2010 20:58

andre514/Msg 49: '...un rep downer...'



Now, if I could score a job like Downer's done, I'd be whistling the following ditty:



The working class can kiss my ass,

I've scored a bludger's job at last!'



Why don't the whole bloody lot of them GET REAL?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
24/09/2010 01:13

Dearest andre

re msg 45



It is indeed true that some GCs would prefer not to have to deal with Turkey - but that doesn't make it a rule...



>>from my own viewpoint at least I try to tell it like it objectively seems to be <<



I would say that was simply not the case... as you don't seem to have your finger on the GC pulse.. apart from quotes from the CY mail.. Historically your stance was EXTREMELY "let's leave things as they are.."



>>but would still advise readers to suspect anyone who claims total impartiality

...if they were that disconnected, why bother to pound the keyboard? <<



I think *I* can be an exception to that 'rule' ... ;) .. How am I 'connected' other than caring about an island with a similar troubled past to my homeland ?!

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
24/09/2010 02:40

msg 47 ....i agree but first these have to be taken in to consideration...



http://www.un.int/cyprus/resolut.htm

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
24/09/2010 03:06

pug wash , there is an old saying "a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing "............



but on the other hand there is "ignorance is bliss".....





smile....................

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
24/09/2010 22:18

message 51 mark:



you say I do not have my finger on the gc pulse

it's quite true:

some of their actions do seem hard to explain logically

particularly for the period 1963-2004 "shooting oneself in the foot"

what have they achieved, except lose part of their kingdom?



my stance? "let's leave things as they are..."

well, yes I have argued this is now the most likely outcome



but mark you of all people will appreciate the terror of people

forced to leave their cherished homes,

as would happen to north cyprus with a "wrong sort" of solution



I don't know enough about the comparitive history of ireland

and cyprus to fully appreciate parallels of the past:

but I recognise the benefits of partition bestowed on ulster,

at last fully accepted by neighbours to the south



I see some great opportunities

if cypriots can still make 2010 the year the communities

agreed to trust each other, however improbable



...and I thought "agente provocateur" only made underware

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
25/09/2010 11:43

Andre



IF you understood the Ireland solution you'd realise that there are those who aren't satisfied - even though there WAS an island wide vote..



You can be British or Irish, or both - if you have had parents with UK citizenship or that were born in part of the UK.



One can live / work where one chooses



The border - there is a recognised one - has no check points - an occasional random customs check - may be



THAT is what I'd like to see for CY - ultimately.



The issue is usurped property and how long derogations on freedom of movememt should last - if an agreement can be worked out



YES- I'd like to see TR in the EU and a GC living in Kyrenia / Girne as likely as a TC or even a Turk living in Limas(s)ol ..



One good thing about being in the EU is that national boundaries lose some significance .... I don't see that as a bad thing....

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
25/09/2010 21:15

Christofias has all but admitted to Ban Ki Moon that the **talks have failed - and it's back to deadlock; so, where to from here?



No doubt Downer will just crack open another Fosters - because he really couldn't give a *XXXX!



*4X is the preferred beer in Queensland [Australia] - brewed in Brisbane.



**That's negativity!

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
26/09/2010 22:50

mark message 55:



"if you understood the irish solution...there are those who aren't satisfied"



I assume in your heavy-handed way you refer to republican/loyalist dissidents:

since ireland is now partitioned by the agreement of both sides, unlike cyprus,

we have never had the opportunity to see how any discontented groups

would sabotage power sharing here, apart from the samos coup and eoka "b"!



"what I would like to see for cyprus..." why is any of this in the gift of non-cypriots?



"the issue is usurped property..."

not as simple as that: the ECHR now states that it would be unacceptable

to push people out of their homes to redress wrongs from the past

besides: for people in north cyprus, and remember this is after all a trnc forum,

I would say, mainly, "the issue is security..."



as regards your final comments about the eu and national boundaries,

my guess is this show of idealism has more to do with turkey "leaving" cyprus,

in order to join the eu



andre