Will the E.U. ever be for all Cypriots

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
13/10/2010 20:15

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/european-commission/time-bring-eu-all-cypriots/20101013



Looks workable in theory,but what about the practical,

Paul

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
13/10/2010 21:32

Paul, what viable other options are there? Autonomy for TRNC (financially based on what?)? Annexation by Turkey (TRNC to become a poor province) - and the wrath of the whole world (UN, EU and what have you) on Turkey?

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
13/10/2010 22:23

Hans,

Glad someone has shown an interest.My personal opinion(for what its worth)I can only see the future being two states,as there has been too much bad blood been spilt over the years.Turkey have been trying to join "the club" for over 50 years now.And in my opinion are no closer now then they were then.Time to move on and use the power that they have.

Paul.

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
13/10/2010 22:36

It really does not help or suggest anything for a solution except support for the bi-communal talks. So few hundred million EUs as a handout to TCs - but what about the direct trade? Very cleverly evaded again by the idiots of bureaucrats in EU! I quote from the report:

"Foreign Ministers in 2004 agreed on a strategy which had two key objectives: ending the isolation of the Turkish Cypriot community and facilitating the reunification of the island.

The chosen mechanism to facilitate this was to encourage the economic development of the Turkish Cypriot community..."

Can one of those idiots tell us how they will achieve all that while denying direct flights and direct trade with the North???

LaptaMike


Joined: 07/10/2009
Posts: 1679

Message Posted:
13/10/2010 22:45

well said bigOz

Blackbird



Joined: 11/08/2009
Posts: 1432

Message Posted:
14/10/2010 01:12

newlad - I cannot ever see the two sides living together now...........

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
14/10/2010 08:39

RE msg 4, bigOz: (...) Can one of those idiots tell us how they will achieve all that while denying direct flights and direct trade with the North??? (...)

=> Those EU "idiots" will help lift ALL embargoes (decided by the UN) as soon as there is a solution supported by BOTH sides on the island. "Direct flights" (by the way all flights are "direct", you probably mean non-stop flights?) are impossible at the moment because every country in the world is bound by the UN embargo. It may help in this discussion if we stick to the facts from the past.

Clarissa2


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 1476

Message Posted:
14/10/2010 12:49

Re : Msg 7,



Dear DC,



As an investigative journalist you should know by now that it is impossible to discuss anything with a Brit if the word "EU" is involved. In an average Briton's lexicon this word is ALWAYS preceded by "idiotic", "useless" etc.etc.etc. It must be something to do with the structure of their DNA...



P.S.On the other hand, they are very good on the topic of weather...

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
14/10/2010 13:05

RE msg 8, Clarissa2: It will all change when EU laws become valid in the whole of Cyprus (i.e. including the ex-TRNC) - which in my opinion is an inevitable development.

Furthermore I doubt whether young TC's and GC's cannot live and work together in a re-united (or federal?) Cyprus. I think it's the older, unforgiving generation making the noise and the problems (and only some fanatic young ones on possibly both sides). It's all a matter of time - my hopes are focussed on the young generation. And they shouldn't mind what foreigners (for their own benefit) think or say.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
14/10/2010 13:09

Thanks for sharing Paul







"A united Cyprus is first and foremost in the interest of the Cypriots. It would allow Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots to reconcile through a shared vision of the future for Cyprus. - very woolly. Does a vision alone ensure reconciliation?



"A united Cyprus is also in the interest of the European Union as a whole." - Mr Author, you really are not telling me anything here. Could you explain why you think so?



"A non-solution is not an option." - why? Is it the EU or the highway? are you open to other possibilities?



The EU was set up with good intentions. I believe it has become a wasteful undemocratic beuaracratic empire designed to keep the EU nobodies rich, powerful and important.



Cut out this big expensive middle man and allow individual countries to support the poor like the TRNC. There will be more money available. Policy has a limited impact on a nations prosperity. Trade, self responsibility and innovation does.

Clarissa2


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 1476

Message Posted:
14/10/2010 13:50

Re : Msg 9,



"Furthermore I doubt whether young TC's and GC's cannot live and work together in a re-united (or federal?) Cyprus. I think it's the older, unforgiving generation making the noise and the problems (and only some fanatic young ones on possibly both sides). It's all a matter of time..."



DC, quite so!

I think it is a matter of political will rather than time. Think of the Balkans - most terrible wars in very recent times - but look at them now!

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
14/10/2010 20:47

1) EU creates a green line so Cypriots can trade. This is to be commended. This would bring Cypriots closer together.



2) EU finally allows TC's to enjoy the finance that they were promised after the Annan plan - good news



3) EU still does not allow TC's to trade with the EU



1 and 2 look good but 3 is the key one. European countries know that giving Peter a fish doesn't bring him prosperity. You have to teach Peter to fish, which is linked to no 3.



So it would seem that the EU is prepared to keep the TRNC trapped in poverty and you could argue that they are manipulating the cypriots to come together. Point 1.



Tc's can get medical care and a Roc passport from the GC's but can't participate in world sports or trade with the world.



In other words, they are being set up to play by the GC rules. You play our game, allow us to be in control and you can join our party.



If the Tc's want to play that is their choice. Good luck to them. Personally I would be very cautiou

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
14/10/2010 20:56

msge 11



EU political will had no impact on the Balkans. It was American fire power that saved the day. So don't count on political will. DC is much closer to the truth. It is a matter of time.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
14/10/2010 21:21

Two states by the end of the year.Turkey have had a gut full of the whole charade,

Paul.

catalkoykid


Joined: 15/02/2009
Posts: 1190

Message Posted:
14/10/2010 21:26

paul i hope so

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
14/10/2010 21:55

RE msg 14, newlad: (...) Two states by the end of the year. (...)

=> Paul, wishful thinking (but certainly not mine). Tell me more about your state in the North. Recognised by whom? The only body to do that: the UN. Selling Güzelyurt oranges to people in Famagusta? Living happily together in prolonged and maybe worse isolation? Etc, etc, etc. The only prosperous future for the (ex-)TRNC lies in the EU. Whether we-the-expats like it or not. The TRNC is by no means the Republic of China (Taiwan, Formosa) and it will never be. I don't believe that Turkey really cares about TRNC and its population - TRNC is just the political Joker in the Turkish/European game of cards. A Joker to be played if and when it suits the Turkish Republic.

Clarissa2


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 1476

Message Posted:
14/10/2010 22:15

Re : Msg 11,

ilovecyprus,



may I point out that I did not write "EU political will", rather "political will".



What did have an impact in the Balkans was the will of the "big players" on the international arena ,including the USA, European countries, Japan, Canada et al. to intervene and do something about it.

It was not American fire power, but rather billions and billions of world money (including American) + constant involvement of all these countries for the period of more than a decade ( providing peace keeping, reconstruction, political governance, civil society, law etc) that achieved the desired results.



Returning to the Cyprus; at the moment I can not see either the same political will or indeed the monies coming from the USA and Europe to solve the problem.

Can you?



Who is going to pay?





Clarissa

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
14/10/2010 22:32

Hans,

Re mess 14 just my opinion.Much respect for yours in mess 16,

Paul.

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
15/10/2010 02:26

personally , thinkit will be a status quo at the end of the year (not the band) ..... but if tensions raise and neither side move , i think the green line/border will close ....untill a two state or single state exists...

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
15/10/2010 08:53

msge 17



I mentioned 'European political will' because the Balkans is in Europe. EU political diplomacy achieved very little. The Serbians made monkeys of the European diplomats. Whilst the politicians were dithering the Serbs were killing many Muslims. Serbia was only going to respond to a might tougher than it's own not to any 'political will'. That might was the United States. Only the US was prepared to use the appropriate force. Not for the first time America came to Europes aid. This provided the stability for other countries to then play their part. Yes things have got better, however there is a long way to go. I believe Kososvo is in a very poor state at this moment in time.

Tony Blair was the bravest politician at the time (along with Clinton) and he is loved in Kosovo. Unfortunately TB was not remembered for his courage in this situation, only for Iraq.