Speeding Fines-Insist on your rights

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
29/10/2010 10:02

Quite often we hear of people being harassed at the border by the police about speeding fines. Remember, everyone is innocent until proven otherwise. This is valid for TRNC as well.



Next time you are stopped at the border remind the police that they have no right to stop you. You will collect the ticket from the police station at the first opportunity i.e. when you come back. Insist on your rights and do not give up. When they see that you are determined they will let you through. Tell them that if you miss your plane because of them you will hold them personally responsible. If they see that you mean business, they will let you through.



However be careful and always be polite, don't give them an excuse to accuse you with something else.



Once you collect your speeding ticket you have the option to pay or to wait for a summons if it ever comes. In that case the court will have the final say and not the police. I know what I am talking about. I have 15 unpaid tickets and free to go in and out. Like everybody else, I am a law abiding person and I have a right to defend myself in court. I have no special priviledges, no different from you.

Also see post no. 20 http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/48243.asp

ismet

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
29/10/2010 10:21

elko2/Msg 1:



Many people are asking: 'Are any of these speed cameras currently legal in TRNC?'



The reason being: In the South, the EU ordered suspension of their use on the grounds that they were not being maintained, or calibrated within the EU prescribed time of regular intervals. RoC speed cameras were out of action for a year that I know of - in fact, does anybody know if they are opertional again now?



Most people suspect that this is also the case in TRNC - i.e., lack of, or nil, maintenance.



Would such a defence stand up in a TRNC court?



To hazard an uneducated guess - doubtful!

deputydawg


Joined: 30/03/2010
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
29/10/2010 10:57

Elko2. I do not take issue with the advice you often so generously give. I am sure many are very grateful including myself. However, I believe that foreigners will often have great difficulty in gaining their rights when dealing with officialdom and need to show great caution in trying to achieve it. For example, several years ago I realised that I was being charged builders rates for water more than 2 years after I should have been paying domestic rates. In the end I had to take my builder with me to show all the documents and receipts which confirmed that I had a valid case. It was admitted that I was overcharged all this time. Before I even mentioned a refund of 2 years I was told to pay the current erroneous bill then I would have domestic rates. When I said it must be amended first I was told "pay the bill or you will stay on builders domestic rates and we will remove your meter". Many British neighbours were unaware of builders rates and were "scammed" for years !

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
29/10/2010 11:34

deputydog

I see you are located in Alsancak. My neighbour had a problem with a high water bill (wont go into the cause of the problem) but because she is out of the country I went to the Belediye to try to sort it out.

It transpired that the account was never transferred from the builder to her. It had been like that for 5 years and I was was shown the scale of charges for water for builders and also for residents and until you hit high usage you would never know that you are being charged builders rates. My guess is that your problem may have been something to do with your swimming pool. Anyway after getting my neighbour to fax me all of the required documents the account was changed into her name and the bill was reduced by 50%. If anyone in Alsancak has a problem with high water bills then first all make sure your account is in your name and not your builders. Secondly the Belediye have a list of tariff's available for viewing at their office.

AJ

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
29/10/2010 11:40

msg. 3

I can assure you that they do it to the locals as well. They know very well that taking them to court is not always convenient. I have the enviable position of being able to take them to court with "great pleasure" in person. In the past I took the Belediye, the tax people and even a bank to court for not cashing a cheque for me. It was payable to a cooperative company or "bearer" but they insisted that the payee stamps it on the back. I won the case with costs.

ismet

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
29/10/2010 11:42

What has water rates got to do with speeding fines?



Perhaps I am missing something.......



Ah, yes, the deliberate [accidentally on purpose!] scamming of foreigners by officialdom!

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
29/10/2010 11:44

Tenakoutou,

I have about 15 lines of defences including "calibration". I am the well known number one expert in this field with an immaculate track record

ismet

dizzycows


Joined: 12/05/2009
Posts: 2736

Message Posted:
29/10/2010 11:50

We too had a massive water bill which we tried to sort out but in the end we paid as could not prove where the water went.... Now we have the water meter taken away whist not there, as the excuse the Belediya office had was that it had been stolen!!! So with that, it was our responsibility.... But in future we might just get the water tankered in, it might not be so convenient but it will be peace of mind whilst not in NC....

deputydawg


Joined: 30/03/2010
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
29/10/2010 12:18

Apart from the sometimes dubious speeding fines another scam is for meter readings for water and electric to be missed then bills for 2 months or more to be presented including "higher bracket" charges which would not have applied had the bills been monthly. Recently challenged a water bill and received the rebate. With electric which was overcharged it took 3 visits, at some expense, to Girne, to claim 55 TL rebate and eventally I recovered only 30 plus TL as while they were prevaricating with the rebate they added back onto my account 20 plus TL for late payment ! I keep a list of the scale charges in my vehicle glovebox at all times but I still find that I am a player in "mission impossible". It is apparant that many of our friends and neighbours have similar problems but some find it too difficult to regularise and others, of less experience of TRNC, have been unaware that they were being cheated or victims of maladminstration.

dougskud



Joined: 04/04/2008
Posts: 356

Message Posted:
29/10/2010 12:37

Hi everyone good morning



I am not taking issue with any of the previous postings.



I would like to say however, we have been on mains water in Ozankoy for over three years and never had an issue with supply or bills, I can't be I am the only Brit. with this experience, so let's try and keep these problems in perspective.

regards

Doug

jimmyG


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 900

Message Posted:
29/10/2010 13:19

Blimey Elko - 15 unpaid speeding tickets - I think we should start calling you Leadfoot!!!

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
29/10/2010 13:25

Leadfoot: is a term used to describe someone who drives quickly or without subtlety, one who often engages in and/or is fond of slamming and flooring the accelerator often.



I am not guilty Gov, me thinks its unfair

ismet

Rottolover



Joined: 21/06/2009
Posts: 519

Message Posted:
29/10/2010 13:39

But Ismet, 15 unpaid speeding fines, and you claim to be a law-abiding citizen?



That seems a little illogical to me.



Anyway, have you considered hiring your services out to all those ex-pats who need knowledgeable representation in court?

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
29/10/2010 13:44

If one can imagine the heat build-up inside the steel box of a TRNC speed camera in 'high Summer', it is most unlikely that the electronic components incorporated can tolerate such high temperatures; therefore, can the speed camera be relied upon to 1./ activate at the correct calibrated speed, and 2./ when it 'fires', give an accurate speed reading?



Would, for instance, a passing bird, butterfly or moth, or other flying insect - even a wind-blown leaf, 'trigger' the mechanism?



Can the speed camera, in layman's terms, 'wander off tune'? - Most people would suspect it most likely, especially in 'super-hot' conditions.



I am sure forum members following this posting would be most interested and grateful if you, 'elko2', would kindly post your opinion(s)!

LordJim


Joined: 12/10/2010
Posts: 221

Message Posted:
29/10/2010 13:55

http://www.abd.org.uk/gatso_photo_checking.htm

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
29/10/2010 14:21

Elko, I am not sure you are correct vis-a-vis the speeding fine issue. In the UK you are guilty unless you prove innocence in this case, the law is not the same for "speeding offences caught by camera" as it is for general law. Not sure the exact TRNC law.

Isabella


Joined: 02/10/2008
Posts: 199

Message Posted:
29/10/2010 14:48

Surprised with this thread - "a law abiding person" - really!!



If you know you have been speeding it would be wise to pay the fine to save Police time. By paying it may make you less likely to speed in the future - I know as I have been there in the UK. I am all in favour of the police stopping people who have been caught speeding as they leave the country - too many people drive fast on the roads (they do in the UK and elsewhere) but many of the roads in Cyprus are still quite narrow.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
29/10/2010 16:47

Isabella,

You can be to sure that I do my best not to exceed the speed limits and I hardly ever go over 100 kmh. Normally I cruise around 80 kmh on the highway. However, being caught by the speed cameras is something else. I take objection to the speed limit of 50 kmh when going through the villages totally occupied by the army and I also object to the fact that I have to go to Nicosia at a specified time to see the photo for a fee. It should be readily available at major police stations. BTW, what kind of judge are you to decide without proper evidence before you?

ismet

Isabella


Joined: 02/10/2008
Posts: 199

Message Posted:
29/10/2010 18:00

Isn't that the law of the Country? I cannot go around in the UK saying that I object to certain speed cameras. I do to myself, but having been caught a couple of times I have learnt my lesson - adhere to the speed limits. When you come to towns and villages in the UK this is where you will find speed cameras - no different to NC.



Sorry, your last line - I thought you said you had speeding tickets and you have just said you also object to adhering to speed limits! I am puzzled.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
29/10/2010 19:10

Ismet,



Admirable as your unblemished record of tying the police and courts in knots is... we face a different issue.



As non-citizens we can be summarily deported without a bye or leave... If they stand to be humiliated by someone who has no long-term right of abode, what do you think our chances would be?



We know you'd fight it and win but for us mere mortals it's not such a good prospect.



Nothing you say will convince me that we should not adhere to the belief that 'discretion is the better part of valour' I feel we would do best to fight those battles that make sense in real terms. Arguing over something that is going to make us enemies is not the answer... Arguing that we are innocent until proven guilty is not such a hot prospect for ex-pats..



Interestingly in the UK you can be found automatically guilty for driving offences if you refuse to supply a specimen for analysis.... So it's not always 'innocent until proven guilty'.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
29/10/2010 19:17

Isabella,

I think there is a subtle difference between what I wrote and what you perceived. For example, I wrote:

"I take objection to the speed limit of 50 kmh when going through the villages totally occupied by the army"



That does not mean that I take no notice of it or that I break it deliberately but it does mean that I do not pay such fines and I want to use the opportunity to object to it in court in a legal way i.e. do they comply with the law and its objectives? I feel that my actions are geared to challenge the haphazard and irresponsible actions of the administration. For a start they never care to calibrate the devices. I always challenge that successfully. So if you ask me I do a good national service

ismet

Tootie


Joined: 28/08/2008
Posts: 2037

Message Posted:
29/10/2010 19:28

Groucho, Do you mean... Your not willing to take the chance?

Texas


Joined: 22/09/2009
Posts: 634

Message Posted:
29/10/2010 19:36

If we organised a rota of every driving ex-pat to visit their local police station and ask "are there any outstanding traffic issues" they would soon get very upset.



We could explain that we would not want to be detained at the crossing/airport, etc, so we have no choice.



See you all there next week.



Don't believe me! Monday 11:00-11:15am Girne Police Station. Those that know me, will recognise my car.

Isabella


Joined: 02/10/2008
Posts: 199

Message Posted:
29/10/2010 19:40

You can pat yourself on the back if you want - but if the law says we have to drive at a certain speed, I would hope people eventually will. It is there to bring about a better safety record on roads, especially when driving through villages/towns. If it means we are driving at a sensible speed through villages, then no matter how many speed cameras are around this should not be of concern to anyone. When we are behind the wheel of a car we are in charge of a potentially dangerous machine which so often we easily forget.

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
30/10/2010 15:47

there are plenty of 'LAWS' not followed in the TRNC, fortunately for some, unfortunately for others

mamachina


Joined: 22/11/2008
Posts: 730

Message Posted:
30/10/2010 17:01

Got pulled up on the bypass the other Saturday, going downhill, slightly above 80 with cars zooming past me at well over 85/90 - got a ticking off but not a fine as far as I am aware - but I must be the only one keeping to the limit now, got hooted at this morning for doing 75!! Car crossing at Gau so I slowed up a bit, got hooted at from one behind and one in inner lane just shot through. Think Im going back to the coast road!!

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
30/10/2010 17:55

Elko, why will you not pay your 15 tickets? do you not feel you were speeding or some other reason? If you are "guilty" then surely you should pay up? I do not understand your argument on this.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
30/10/2010 18:42

msg. 27

Pugwash,

In simple terms, I am not guilty of breaking any law as it stands. If anybody thinks otherwise, wait until the judge decides

ismet

joanie1


Joined: 25/07/2008
Posts: 164

Message Posted:
30/10/2010 19:07

I posted on here a couple of weeks ago about a speeding fine my son in law received driving my car (with my permission) when I was out of the country. I went to the police station to pay the fine - I was told the car gets the penalty - not the driver (as a temporary resident thought it was the best course of action and my son in law is happy to pay it) but the police told me to wait until the paperwork was redelivered to my house. Two weeks have gone by and no paperwork. As I shall be going across the border in two weeks time I am anxious to get this out of the way. I shall go to the Police Station (Girne) again and hope they have the paperwork. Ismet you are always so helpful but things are different here for TCs and us foreigners. I would love to politely insist on my rights but I think all of us non citizens have to accept the reality that even though many of us love living here - as far as equal rights are concerned we don't actually have any.



Joan

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
30/10/2010 20:07

Elko I still do not get this, do you feel that you were not speeding or that the law is not enforceable or has not been made a law?

Maz


Joined: 29/03/2009
Posts: 1924

Message Posted:
30/10/2010 22:47

Sadly, I think the statement 'One law for the rich and another for the poor' can be re-written as 'One law for TC's and another for the 'yabanci'. It is not only here that is so, but in order to stay and live here without fear of the wrath of a deportation order, one must smile and pay up. We have got fines that seemed wrong, but with no proof that the camera might be suspect. I even heard of a woman who got three fines in three different places at the same time! No further comment.



I think a lot depends on the policemen involved as well. Some are happy to afford equal 'rights' others seem hell bent on 'persecution of the Brits'.



If you can't beat 'em - pay up.