Threat to Abolish British Bases in Cyprus

damchi


Joined: 21/05/2010
Posts: 26

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 16:30

Greece this morning threatened the British Government that if there were to be 'partition' of the island of Cyprus following the breakdown of the current talks, then the UK would no longer be allowed to keep its British Sovereign bases in Cyprus. The agreement signed by Greece and the United Kingdom in 1960 permits the United Kingdom to have its armed forces stationed at Akrotiri. I believe that it is very wrong for any country, and I don't care which country it is, to threaten by blackmail any other country. Some of us are old enough to remember the days when EOKA existed.

newscoop


Joined: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2197

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 16:32

Never going to happen



Look up the definition of sovereign base area.

DeaconB


Joined: 13/07/2010
Posts: 120

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 16:41

|Once we are out of Afghanistan the bases won’t be needed, the Greek military can protect the whole region with their plane and little tank. If they keep up the payments on them that is.

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 16:42

damchi don't think it was Greece, it was the RoC government.

Panchocat


Joined: 29/11/2009
Posts: 1333

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 16:51

toys and prams again!

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 16:55

Neither the Greeks, or the GCs, have the ba**s for it. If they did they would not have waited 36 years.....

Geoff

Beware of Greeks bearing gifts? Nah - beware of any Greeks.

Geoff

Sundance


Joined: 15/07/2010
Posts: 213

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 17:23

Msg 6



Geoff your not far wrong there mate



Sundance

mikelapta



Joined: 20/11/2008
Posts: 2186

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 17:27

I don't think the partition of Cyprus is because of the breakdown of talks but the most desirable result.

Perhaps we could give the allies ie Brits and USA part-lease of Famagusta,and then they will see the friendliness of the Nothern part.A Western presence is still desirable here because of Iran,and if Israel kicks off again.

caulkhead


Joined: 03/01/2009
Posts: 149

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 17:28

I can't see the USA allowing the loss of these strategic bases. If, however, the British were moved on and the USAF took them over, the UK would not have these costs to meet. Perhaps there is a longer game being played than the RoC currently realise.

yrret


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 761

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 17:38

Dhekelia will close sometime in the next 10 years anyway.

Neither can forceably be closed, they aren't even part of the RoC, they are part of the UK, hence the reason there are more 'borders' in Cy than just the edge of the sea.

Dhekelia is of relatively little importance unles you are into sailing and wind surfing, and partying at Napa.

Akrotiri on the other hand has a heavy load runway for transporters and wouldn't be given up as it would be a real problem both logistically and politically to find another home for the shall we say 'less conventional' weapons stored there.

They won't force an issue, they ran away in '74, and are one of the few armies that could come close to catching the Italians.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 17:42

As ANY Cypriot in the know will tell you the bases are THE reason that Turkey was 'allowed' to land in '74... Partition was seen by the US state dept as a way of ensuring the bases



Now - can anyone tell us where the money the UK agreed to pay the RoC - but not paid since the ethnic strife - has been going ?



The US HAVE been using UK facilities and some in 'the north', too

newscoop


Joined: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2197

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 17:53

6m;



I asked you this before, where does it state that the UK has to pay 'rent' for it's own territory?



Or are you referring to the special payments made by the UK to the ROC which stopped in 1964 when the UK government saw that the monies due to the TC's as a partner in government were frozen out by the GC's?

Blackie


Joined: 20/12/2007
Posts: 129

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 18:01

Here's a suggestion if Greece wants Britain to close its bases if partition is agreed why not come to some agreement with the TRNC and move the base to somewhere in the region of ercan, this would give the Greeks something else to whine about and give a boost to the TRNC economy and perhaps even boost the sale of property in the North. It would certainly boost the night life in Famagusta and Kyrenia

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 18:27

mmmmmm again you state words without facts



As ANY Cypriot in the know





Please do me a favour this is not borne out by any facts whatsoever, the truth was the Turkish Government had had enough, the UK and USA was not going to oppose so they went ahead. I suppose you believe the "grassy knoll" theory too ? and "they never landed on the moon" he he

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 18:46

re 12 'Newscoop'



I'm sorry if you asked before and I didn't respond.. :(

As part of the 1960 Constitution is was agreed that the UK would grant 'aid' to the RoC - the amount to be reviewed every 5 years - as you state the payments stopped over 45 years ago ! .. So YES, I guess ;)



re 14 Pugwash



>>you state words without facts <<



OK... ask our very own Elko2 ...



Suggest, you start researching where they 'sell humble pie' - as I ASSure you , you'll be 'eating it' ......

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 18:50

Msg 13.

No look here my friend, GR the donkey being from the Ercan region has a few issues about giving his grazing land to the Brits or Turkallos or anybody else. He is nervous enough as it is, kindly do not suggest such extreme measures, cause you are liable to push him into serious depression which he may never recover from. What will my Oracle do without GR?

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 18:54

Usual rudeness and condescending attitude from mmmmmm as he shows to all that may question his "allknowingness"

newscoop


Joined: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2197

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 19:08

Cheers 6m;



So you acknowledge that the dosh is not linked to the SBA's then?



As to the actual cash payments that were stopped in 1964, until the 1960 constitution is re-instated it looks like the GC's will have to go whistle.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 20:22

re msg 18 Newscoop



>>So you acknowledge that the dosh is not linked to the SBA's then? <<



Hardly, the aid is the reciprocation for the bases deal..



>>As to the actual cash payments that were stopped in 1964, until the 1960 constitution is re-instated it looks like the GC's will have to go whistle.<<



'THEY' claim it is still 'intact'.. and some say that the UK has broken it's part of the deal and that therefore the land is forfeit !

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 20:29

re 17 Pugwash



>>Usual rudeness and condescending attitude from mmmmmm as he shows to all that may question his "allknowingness"<<



I wonder what you'll be saying when Elko2 agrees with me... I reserve any 'condescending attitude'

for those for whom that cap fits.... ;)



As for 'rudeness' - I guess anyone might be 'rude' if seriously provoked... please be assured you haven't done that ;)

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 20:32

Read your own posts mmmmmm, if Elko/Ismet agrees with you it does not make it "true" as usual you are the only "authority" on everything



You need to get a life away from abusing others, it will be good for you.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 20:36

re msg 21



>>if Elko/Ismet agrees with you it does not make it "true"<<



Aha.. a bit of CYA, now is it ?! It might not make it 'true' but :



1/ Can we agree he is a 'Cypriot in the know'



2/ you might listen to him - but find it 'difficult' if *I* say it ? ;)



3/ the 'authority' would in this instance be Ismet, - no ?



>>You need to get a life away from abusing others, it will be good for you.<<



There's that self-depreciation thing, again.. that cap does seem to fit remarkably well ;)

newscoop


Joined: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2197

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 20:37

Sorry Mark;



Still can't find anything that says the UK had to pay to rent it's own territory, and was the cash reciprocal or a bung to smooth the way to independance?



Also if the 1960 agreement is still valid how did ROC get into the EU even though Turkey is not a member?



Look at the agreement re ouside agencies and memberships.

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 20:41

mmmmmm you need to stop abusing other posters, you have intimated I am a "village Idiot' and I suppose you think is so clever used the ASSured thing, I have not abused you or been rude just stood up to your continuing bullying of others and myself.



In reply to your as usually posted replys,



1 Yes but he is an individual so is not all knowing



2 I would listen to him but that does not mean what he says is true for obvious reasons, it would be his "opinion'



3 No it would not, Ismet is not the sole or only authority on these matters, he has an opinion and that is fine.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 20:46

Hi Newscoop re 23



>>Still can't find anything that says the UK had to pay to rent it's own territory<<

Did not the agreement basically say "we will pay x GBP now and review it every five years?"

What would you prefer to call it ? The UK called it 'aid' - shall we agree to call it that ?



>>Also if the 1960 agreement is still valid how did ROC get into the EU even though Turkey is not a member? Look at the agreement re ouside agencies and memberships.<<



Where you aware the TR made noises about the 'illegality' of RoC joining without their agreement - could it have been something to do with a "little continued breach" of UN Sec Council Resolutions that made such a move a little ironic..

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 20:52

Anyway mmmmmm who did kill JR? I am sure you do not believe it was Kristin? you must be in the know surely? or know someone who is an "authority" or "in the know"

Stonehousepub


Joined: 21/05/2009
Posts: 755

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 20:57

message 14



Some older generation Cypriots would confirm message 11. The parrtition of Cyprus is not as simple as "Turkey had had enough".



Both Turkey & Greece and more importantly the Cypriots were very cleverly played by the UK & USA.



"The game" resulted in the partition of the island, and British army bases. Mission accomplished...

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 20:59

re msg 24 Pugwash



>>you have intimated I am a "village Idiot'<<



You are determined to prove the 'cap fits' ;)



Your surely haven't abused / annoyed / upset me - I expect that won't make you 'happy'..



Let's deal with specifics.. do try to 'keep up' .. I said "As ANY Cypriot in the know will tell you the bases are THE reason that Turkey was 'allowed' to land in '74... Partition was seen by the US state dept as a way of ensuring the bases"



So.. are you 'upset' because you aren't in the 'know', aren't a Cypriot or both .....





Are you upset that THAT cap doesn't fit ? ;)

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 21:04

As usual a foolish rude reply from mmmmmm.



Has to resort to abuse of others to make his point.



Read your posts mmmmmm, you said these things.

measey


Joined: 07/02/2009
Posts: 1037

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 21:11

Pugwash, if the cap fits.

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 21:24

gosh measey, did you cut and paste that from mmmmmm ?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 21:24

re 29 Pugwash



Foolish is probably indulging you by responding at all.. suggest you wait for Ismet's response, as what has really 'upset' you is that you know you'll be eating humble pie !

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 21:29

No, mmmmmm I will listen and respect what he says, however it does not mean that he "knows".........



your words.............the bases are THE reason that Turkey was 'allowed' to land in '74... Partition was seen by the US state dept as a way of ensuring the bases...........

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 21:59

one of the biggest problems in discussing serious international questions,

is that the future is to some great extent an unknown land



on present form the bases could be vulnerable to intimidation from the locals

...unless you believe they will emerge as the med's answer to guantanamo bay



as far as they ever were from snatching back "their" lost territories, stirring things over the bases

may be the shrewdist red-herring the gc politicians could employ if "blame-gaming" begins to pall



how you view the bases question depends of course how you see the overall cyprus question:

if nato, uk, the americans and turkey are the "baddies" in your world, you'll want them closed down



I would hope the uk sticks to its guns over the bases and continues to "hold the ring"

between both cypriot states, based upon its many historical relationships with the island,

rather than fail the turkish cypriots as it did in its guardianship during the greek fascist era



andre

japeal



Joined: 12/09/2008
Posts: 1052

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 23:16

Greeks would not kick british bases out, they still need income from the personnel, and the jobs for the locals tht work on the bases. At worst they would try to renew agreements of the soveriegn bases in RoC.

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 23:58

yes japeal,



you are probably right,

but it is quite likely a sort of phoney war will be conjured up

to disract attention from total failiure on the "cyprus problem"



then again, if the balloon ever went up,

would britain be loaned the aircraft carrier "charles de gaule"

to head a task force? the mind boggles

silentbutdim


Joined: 07/09/2010
Posts: 121

Message Posted:
11/11/2010 00:25

The Argentinians were the last country to threaten the UK

over sovereinty. misspelling I kno.

Will the greeks now acknowledge that a UK task force could

be shipped to the waters surrounding the Greek mainland as

they did when the Argies tried to take over the Faulklands.

Clarissa2


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 1476

Message Posted:
11/11/2010 02:32

Re : Msg1,



Could you tell me, please, where is Greece mentioned in this?



http://famagusta-gazette.com/britain-gets-stark-warning-over-cyprus-bases-p10950-69.htm

straitasadie


Joined: 14/09/2009
Posts: 450

Message Posted:
11/11/2010 05:24

Just give pugwash and mmmmmmmmmmm an epee apiece and lets get back to the original thread.

LOvegod


Joined: 22/03/2009
Posts: 161

Message Posted:
11/11/2010 07:51

000000000000000000000hhhhhh yawn. oops sorry just woke up. read this an it sent me off to sleep again !

waddo


Joined: 29/11/2008
Posts: 1966

Message Posted:
11/11/2010 08:11

How many UK bases are on Cyprus and what functions have they?



Now there is a good starter for ten for all you experts on the Cyprus problem.



Just to keep it more interesting - which parts of which bases are still rented from the original owners of the land and were/are those owners Greek or Turkish speaking?



For all you who know the real answer there is a prize for this one - Which hanger was/is Blackbird kept in?



Come on Cyprus experts, you should all know the answers to at least one of the questions!!

bridie


Joined: 18/09/2008
Posts: 308

Message Posted:
11/11/2010 10:27

Eastern SBA, Western SBA, and the U2 was kept at Akrotiri, until 1972/3. We were there the night they were told "last call", before they flew back to the United States for Christmas.. The blackbird came later. Both bases were /are strategic points for listening , moving personel, and a stopping off point for aircraft for refuelling etc. Surely most people know that . It doesn't make them an expert.

As for the rent paid to the ROC, the UK stopped it as the ROC would not split it equally between the the GCs and the TCs.

deputydawg


Joined: 30/03/2010
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
11/11/2010 10:32

The last time I watched Blackbird it was a ball of fire under a pall of smoke as a Yank tried to take off but parked it in the control tower !

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
11/11/2010 10:50

Waddo re msg 41



Those that know have probably signed something which prevents them winning any prize ! Do you think we should 'drop' it ? ...

stilluvithere



Joined: 03/12/2008
Posts: 765

Message Posted:
11/11/2010 11:01

Waddo can't remember the number but it was in the same hangar as the lightning minor team or it was in 1974.

Silentbutdim, nice idea but after all the defence cuts from the last government I doubt we could seriously threaten anyone

bridie


Joined: 18/09/2008
Posts: 308

Message Posted:
11/11/2010 11:40

Nice one Brian!

deputydawg


Joined: 30/03/2010
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
11/11/2010 12:17

Waddo, please stop asking questions which will cause feelings of inadequacy for some of those who do not know the answer

waddo


Joined: 29/11/2008
Posts: 1966

Message Posted:
11/11/2010 14:11

6m, doubt the cleaners and sweepers (Local Employed Cıvılıans) were made to sıgn a damn thıng - but they would all know anyway! stılluvıthere, that would have been swım 56,s crowd and should have been hanger 17 but probably re-numbered by now. Deputy, that tower has had some narrow mıss events ın the past so ıt must have been due after the canbera trıed and faıled ın 71! Brıdıe, good one but even through Akrotırı ıs ın the ESBA there was a request for bases - not areas. So where ın the SBAs ıs Troodos and ıs Epıskopı a seperate area or just a thırd major base (good for lıstenıng out) on ıts own rıght? Last tıme I looked - that would be 2007 - UK were stıll payıng rent for the land they call Happy Valley and that ıs wıthın an SBA anyway so maybe that land ıs not RoC owened after all, lıke a l

deputydawg


Joined: 30/03/2010
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
11/11/2010 15:07

Waddo. The U2 crash was in 1977 following near misses. The pilot due to fly the mission was killed the night before in a car crash returning to Akrotiri after a night out. (some say he was p...d). So anxious were the Americans to get the U2 above Sinai or Lebonon without delay that, alledgedly, the same day a relief pilot was flown from the USA who immediately killed himself and 4 civilians in the control/met buildings. More haste less speed ?

breezyboy


Joined: 14/05/2007
Posts: 1179

Message Posted:
11/11/2010 17:47

not knowing what the document said which contained a review every 5 years, but could this review be from £X to £0 after all that is still a review.

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
11/11/2010 18:02

This is a nice thread you guys might like, deputydawg and waddo (and others)



http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?t=55347

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
11/11/2010 18:03

Gosh this is even more interesting



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1vhYhrVy94

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
11/11/2010 20:06

Andre/Msg 34: 'rather than fail the turkish cypriots as it did in its guardianship during the greek fascist era...'



And there you've got it in one, 'Andre' - they sat in their bases, drinking cups of tea, knowing that they had better not oppose the Turks - or else! They failed abysmally to honour the very agreement they signed up to!



Now they blame Kissinger!

Panchocat


Joined: 29/11/2009
Posts: 1333

Message Posted:
12/11/2010 09:36

We had a wonderful trip to Episkopi 3 weeks ago to see our youngest son on his way back from Afghanistan. They bring them in through Cyprus for R & R and decompression/debriefing.

The lads & lasses all had a wonderful time on Tunnel beach with all kinds of water sports organised.

This was our second time as he has now done two Afghan tours. So wonderful to see him safe and well.

Sadly, on the same beach, this week another young returning soldier was killed when he was hit by a speedboat. So sad to survive the war and be killed like that. I realise his parents were not lucky enough to see their brave young man our thoughts are with them.

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
11/12/2010 20:19

I believe the threat to the bases was after Jack Straws comments on the Cyprus problem ......

walkerscott


Joined: 13/08/2009
Posts: 901

Message Posted:
11/12/2010 20:56

There is absolutely no threat to the British Bases at all. It was all part of the Independence Agreement.



The only likelyhood is that the British Government will voluntarily gift the Dahkelia Sovereign Base Area but the Akrotiri-Episkopi Sovereign Base Area will alway remain part of the UK.

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
11/12/2010 23:54

apc message 55:



the significance of jack straw's remarks, like gordon brown's recent prediction of the euro's collapse,

is that since they are no longer in government they can at long last say what they really think



I agree that britain could probably slough off most of dhakelia if needed to but akrotiri is crucial to the us



it is a bitterly ironic prospect:

greece an unreliable nato member and roc cyprus a non-member, antagonising nato founding fathers

america and britain... because of a fear that straw and bildt may not be the "only ones" knowing the truth



watch this airspace

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
11/12/2010 23:58

walker the independence agreement went to s**t in 63 then again in 74 .....

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
12/12/2010

I think we should just watch wikileaks now x

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
12/12/2010 01:22

lilli,



if you get bored with wiki leaks you are welcome to come and see how my roof leaks