[1878 # 7] Bellapais, long before the building boom - a different area

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 17:51

The right side of this fine drawing is especially interesting in a comparison with the situation in 2010 - is the church tower in the village still there? And look how the right side of the abbey - where in the Middle Ages the kitchen for the monks was situated - has changed!

Click this link to view the beautiful drawing [ http://is.gd/hLN71 ].

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 17:52

Hmm clickaDCmoneymaker it seems



I think not

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 18:23

Webpage updated with a groundplan of the abbey. Click this link to view the beautiful drawing [ http://is.gd/hLN71 ] and the updates.

Glasbury


Joined: 13/08/2010
Posts: 268

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 18:37

That is a beautiful drawing.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 23:01

""The life of a monk - Winter and Summer he rose between five and six, washed at the open lavatory, and took his place in choir at six o'clock. There he said matins and prime, and the corresponding Hours of the B.V.M. and heard mass. , After mass, on chapter days, the meeting in chapter, then breakfast, followed by tierce in church, and, if the day was of special obligation, the high mass at which the monastery servants and the neighbouring villagers attended. Afterwards each monk had his special work"



Hans, what language were these Monks speaking then?

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 23:23

Bill: the (Roman Catholic) monks in Cyprus spoke medieval French (from 1191, conquest of Cyprus by the French speaking English King Richard I Plantagenêt, the "Lionheart", when Roman Catholicism was introduced here as the official faith), the higher dignataries spoke and wrote Latin also.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 23:27

Thanks Hans.



Who and when were the last Monks to occupy the place?

famagusta99


Joined: 23/11/2010
Posts: 68

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 23:37

Hans, lovely pictures, but I wish you would give the sources, where were they first published?



A lot of the old literature (including with pictures) about Cyprus has now been made freely available (& can be downloaded) from the net, through http://web.archive.org and http://books.google.com.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 23:40

I prefer to look at Hans links rather than scouring the internet for information on the trnc. Hans links are more easier to use (for me anyway!)

famagusta99


Joined: 23/11/2010
Posts: 68

Message Posted:
26/11/2010 01:06

No1Doyen: why not both?

I also like to look at Hans links, very much, indeed,....but, surely, it wouldn't cost much to tell us where they are taken from? In case someone wants to go "ad fontes".

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
26/11/2010 10:05

RE msg 8, famagusta99: (...) I wish you would give the sources, where were they first published? (...)

=> No problem, famagusta99. I'll give the source in uploads to come (as far as known to me), although it won't help much in many cases. Some are from more than a century old magazines - usually originals cannot be obtained anymore. "London News" from 1878 (when much attention was paid to Cyprus, which had just become a leased British possession) is an example. Anyway, I'll do my best to provide the viewers of my new webpages with the desired information. And, famagusta99, you can always ask for additional information via email: mcf.trnc@gmail.com . I hope this reply satisfies you?

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
26/11/2010 10:28

Well done Hans. Look forward to it.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
26/11/2010 10:32

RE msg 7, No1Doyen: (...) Who and when were the last Monks to occupy the place? (...)

=> Even the laziest moderator on this board could go to the home page of my site and type (for example) " monks bellapais " in the window of my new! local Google Search engine (free, fast and thorough!).

Page with search engine here: [ http://www.allcrusades.com ]

I did it for you and one of the results (there are more, but I trust you read the lines above) may interest you:

http://www.allcrusades.com/CASTLES/CYPRUS/BELLAPAIS/Plan-of-abbey.jpg/plan-of-abbey-txt-1.html

famagusta99


Joined: 23/11/2010
Posts: 68

Message Posted:
26/11/2010 12:21

msg #11: wonderful, thank you very much. Don't forget to put the date, too!



I do know that The Illustrated London News published a lot about Cyprus in 1878 (I have an old print from there, from Oct. 19. 1878.)



On problem with finding stuff about Bellapais on the net (or ebay) is that it has been spelled in so many different ways... A "collection" of all the different names would also be useful. (hint, hint)



And I did email you a couple of weeks back, asking if you had any walks i Famagusta in the near future...but I never received an answer. Might the email have been taken by the anti-spam?

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
26/11/2010 12:39

RE msg 14, famagusta99: (...) And I did email you a couple of weeks back, asking if you had any walks i Famagusta in the near future...but I never received an answer. Might the email have been taken by the anti-spam? (...)

=> Indeed, for some reason your email went to the Junk box. I've made you a "trusted sender" now. And I'll reply today about Famagusta. OK?

P.S. Spelling of Bellapais: you're right!

1 : How about "Telapaïs" by a British photographer in 1878..?

2 : "De la Paix" (convent): Source: Cornelis de Bruyn: http://www.allcrusades.com/CASTLES/CYPRUS/BELLAPAIS/Cloister/van-bruyn-txt-1.html

3 : "Lapaïs": on a drawing by an unknown "special illustrator", The Illustrated London News, 1878.



If you know more write them down here, I'll do the same. Help from other history fans welcome of course: the spelling plus the source, please!

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
26/11/2010 12:42

Hans .



Any chance you posting the photograph of snow covering Bellapais, it is one photograph that would probably surprise a few members on here, suprised me when I saw it first !!

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
26/11/2010 13:22

RE msg 16, Pipie: (...) Any chance you posting the photograph of snow covering Bellapais, it is one photograph that would probably surprise a few members on here, suprised me when I saw it first !! (...)

=> At your service..! My webpage with a fine Google Search Engine here: [ http://www.allcrusades.com ]

Type " Bellapais snow" and you'll find...

http://www.allcrusades.com/CASTLES/CYPRUS/BELLAPAIS/Intro/Extra/summer-winter-txt-1.html

Well done, DutchCrusader!

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
26/11/2010 14:01

Hi Dutch .



Thank you for this photo. However the one I am reffering to is a very old black and white one.

I first saw it years ago ago placed a wall in a hotel based at Bellapais, a very old photo as I said it was Bellapais covered in snow.

hilda


Joined: 10/09/2009
Posts: 80

Message Posted:
26/11/2010 14:07

more please Dutch

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
26/11/2010 14:49

RE msg 19, hilda: Coming! Tonight, after a BBQ. Haha! It's -5 degrees in Holland!

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
26/11/2010 20:16

Historians believe that as far back as 280 BC. there was a town called Ledra in the centre of Cyprus.



Is this evidenced anywhere Hans?

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
26/11/2010 21:23

Hans. Have you forgot me?

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
26/11/2010 21:26

RE msg 22, No1Doyen: (...) Hand. Have you forgot me? (...)

▶ Boll: No. We just finished a BBQ (yes, of course: outside... ) and now I'm replying to emails and posts. Be patient, please.

stickywitch


Joined: 06/01/2010
Posts: 14

Message Posted:
26/11/2010 21:38

hi Hans .. can i have a link of my own? My Dad wants an old map of Cyprus, the sort that has galleons on the sea and pictures where the castles are etc. I can't find one on the net ... do you know of one that I can 'steal'?.

Regards, Stickywitch (or Rab to my friends)

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
26/11/2010 21:53

RE msg 24, stickywitch: Medieval maps (of Cyprus) were mainly made by the famous cartographers from (Italy) and the Low Lands (the Netherlands and Belgium). They never saw Cyprus but were relying on notes by ship captains who sailed the Levant and Western Europe. To make the maps (single, engraved pieces and then printed a couple of times) visually attractive the cartographers added non-existing monsters, galleons that never sailed the sea around Cyprus etc.

I've a lot of digitalised maps (unfortunately not one original - they are all bought by museums) and I'll mail you some or give them to you on CD or memory stick on the Lambousa market if they are too large (hi-res) to mail. CU!

cypgab


Joined: 09/01/2010
Posts: 338

Message Posted:
26/11/2010 22:16

I think that photograph in the snow is on a wall in the Bellapais Gardens hotel.

cypgab


Joined: 09/01/2010
Posts: 338

Message Posted:
26/11/2010 22:19

Pugwash - message 2.



Do you like anybody?

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
26/11/2010 22:23

Cypgab.



Yes you are correct. It is the most lovely photograph do you agree ?

stickywitch


Joined: 06/01/2010
Posts: 14

Message Posted:
26/11/2010 22:28

Thank you Hans .. I can't work out why I didn't ask you first of all. Oh, he doesn't expect an original, although I guess he would like one! Rab

famagusta99


Joined: 23/11/2010
Posts: 68

Message Posted:
26/11/2010 22:34

msg #17, Spelling of Bellapais:

And then you have the "modern" versions:



-Bellapaix in "Bitter Lemons",



- and the present, official name (I can't find the letters on my computer to recreate it; I leave that to you! )

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
27/11/2010 10:04

Stickywitch: check your Inbox this Saturday afternoon - I'll mail you a URL where you can download a map selection in a .zip-file from my server. The file has a password (case sensitive). Regards, DC.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
27/11/2010 19:04

Rab, there's a zipped file ready for you on my server - double click the URL I texted you and the file will download to your hard disk.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
27/11/2010 19:53

The first undisputed settlement (PPNB) occurred in the 9th (or perhaps 10th) millennium BC. The first settlers were already agriculturalists, but did not yet produce pottery (aceramic Neolithic).[1] They introduced the dog, sheep, goats and maybe cattle and pigs as well as numerous wild animals like foxes (Vulpes vulpes) and Persian fallow deer (Dama mesopotamica) that were previously unknown on the island. The PPNB settlers built round houses with floors made of terrazzo of burned lime (e.g. Kastros, Shillourokambos, Tenta) and cultivated einkorn and emmer.



Hans, are there any remains of these 'round houses' that you know of?

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
27/11/2010 20:07

RE msg 33, No1Doyen: Sorry, Bill, I can't help you. But someone I know here in TRNC is an archeologist and he may know the answer. I'll ask him when I meet him.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
27/11/2010 20:09

Thanks Hans.

Clarissa2


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 1476

Message Posted:
28/11/2010 11:36

Re : Msg 15 &30,



Re: spellings of Bellapais.



One of the prints by Tristram Ellis is called “The Abbey of Bellapaix”/ “Abbé de la Paix”,1879.