Property purchase

SueIgoe


Joined: 05/09/2008
Posts: 5

Message Posted:
05/09/2008 22:55

Hi i am looking to purchase property in TRNC .Are there any paricular personalities in the world of developers/ agents where caution would be advised as i am a single paren and very anxious about being misled

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
05/09/2008 23:37

Sue1goe .

Go to homebuyers pressure group website , there is lots of advice on purchasing property . Good luck.

cooper


Joined: 23/10/2007
Posts: 3386

Message Posted:
05/09/2008 23:41

Hi Sueigoe this is there web address - http://www.hbpg-trnc.net/



Cooper

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
05/09/2008 23:47

hi sueige , welcome to the forum and good luck with your search for a property , sound advice given above

regards , simbas

hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
05/09/2008 23:51

Sue

Be very, very careful. Strongly advise you to buy a completed property, already connected to water (and check it gets it regularly) & electricity, both with meters. That you know the title is ok and the owner has the kocan, nowhere near an army base and no mortgage on the property. Best advice is to visit, rent first preferably and see if you like living in the TRNC. Check healthcare provisions and costs (it's not in the EU). Don't trust estate agents, builders or even your own lawyer.

orangekazzie



Joined: 31/07/2007
Posts: 1091

Message Posted:
06/09/2008 00:11

Sue

A Kocan is the equivalent of Title Deeds. If you use an estate agent and are buying new then make sure you use your own solicitor. Don't believe the estate agent if he tells you you don't need one of your own. Do exactly the same as you would in your Country of Residence. Dig as deep as you can and ask as many questions as you can.

Good luck, its a great place but remember to do your homework.

Karen

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
06/09/2008 11:42

never trust an estate agent and always buy pre '74 turkish title deed.

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
06/09/2008 12:40

The government are now refusing permission to purchase for foreigners on pre 74 Turkish Title Deeds. They will also refuse permission to purchase on property near an army base so you need to make sure of that also. There are many good lawyers/developers/builders here, but there are many unscrupulous ones also. The current specific performance law does not protect purchasers to force the vendor to transfer the title deeds to a property, even though you may have paid all your contractual payments and many vendors are holding purchasers to ransom, asking for more payments than what is contractually due for electricity/water infrastructure etc. Vendors who sell off-plan are now asking you to pay your property KDV tax prior to taking posession, but this does not mean you will get your title deeds. Because of this, it is not a good idea to buy off plan. If you buy here, you will be more protected by buying a resale property which has water/electricity connections and meters, has had snagging done and where the private owner has the title deeds (kocan). Please look at the HBPG website for information: http://www.hbpg-trnc.net/

If you are in Cyprus come along to the HBPG surgery at the Pia Bella Hotel in Girne on Tuesdays 12-3pm for advice and information before you decide to purchase.

Ask lots of questions and do your homework.



Sibel

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
06/09/2008 14:09

"The government are now refusing permission to purchase for foreigners on pre 74 Turkish Title Deeds."



Pure gossip, isn't it? People are still getting them and have said so on the BBs.

perry


Joined: 27/01/2007
Posts: 413

Message Posted:
06/09/2008 14:31

That is correct PP - I know some people who have their permissions on pre 74 land.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
06/09/2008 14:34

Seems to me that some people are being rather foolish to believe the rumours started by struggling estate agents desperate to flog Greek property.

doughnuts40


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 98

Message Posted:
06/09/2008 16:08

Sibel where are you getting your information from regarding Turkish Title? You seem to be actively involved with the HBPG so are you speaking on behalf of them and if so why is this information not posted on the HBPG Website?

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
06/09/2008 16:28

Recently we have had people reporting that they have been refused ptp on pre74 title deeds, but rules change at whim here so some people may be getting them, others may not. It is certainly not guaranteed that if you buy pre74 you will get ptp.

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
06/09/2008 16:36

Sorry, I forgot to put that I help out at the HBPG surgeries at the Pia Bella.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
06/09/2008 16:42

Doesn't help if the government have introduced a minimum income for residency renewal.

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
06/09/2008 16:46

I probably didn't make myself clear on my message. I am not saying that the government are refusing PTP on all pre74 titles, but some people have experienced this, so it is not a guarantee.

bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
06/09/2008 16:48

Kibrissibel,

are more pre 74 than exchange being refused or are we also seeing refusals from both deeds?



SUE

doughnuts40


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 98

Message Posted:
06/09/2008 17:25

Kibrisibel very few things in life are guaranteed. I would suggest that as you are affiliated with the HBPG you should refrain from statements such as "The government are now refusing permission to purchase for foreigners on pre 74 Turkish Title Deeds". This is untrue and unfounded. SOME people may have been refused for reasons unknown.

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
06/09/2008 17:39

Yes, I apologise, as I said, I did not make myself clear. Unfortunately there is not an edit button on this board.

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
06/09/2008 18:46

SueIgoe

Welcome.

''.Are there any paricular personalities in the world of developers/ agents where caution would be advised .''



Them all.



You have a great advantage over us early birds ,in that there has ,over the years, been a lot of input into boards like this.



Probably one of the best things to happen, is the HBPG, I would strongly recommend you do as kibrissibel advises, go to the meeting and talk to people.



You cannot guarantee 100% everything will turn out all right ,but there are somethings you can check and do to help.

For example

Rent for a while .or at least come in summer and winter.

Buy only completed property with deeds,if possible.

Pick your own lawyer from recommendations.

Check the cost of living as it pertains to you,I saw a property site that said average cost of electric is £30 month.not true!

Dont buy on your first trip ,go home and have a think.

and following onto the last, never decide anything while sipping a drink overlooking the harbour.



Good Luck, and whatever you decide,have a nice time.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
06/09/2008 20:28

sueigo,



if you buy trnc title it is much cheaper than pre-'74 turkish

there are professional apologists for the south of cyprus

who have infiltrated this discussion board,

their object in life is to scare you off trnc or exchange land

but of course you are not taking anything from anyone:

after all, gc "former residents" can't move back in if you don't buy!



even if there is a peace deal, you "may" only become liable for

a moderate compensation bill and that many years down the line,

while your property will leap in value...



off-plan is theoretically somewhat less costly than resales

but with such a surplus on the market there is little reason

to buy "off plan", better there is something called "on plan"

where the thing is more or less finished and awaits a buyer



with resales you should expect your utility connections to be in place

and even your deeds or kocan available



bargain politely but very firmly



please ask around about estate agent/developers/lawyers

recommendations, a lot of old threads here if you search way back

try and get in a few exploratory trips to see what it is you really want

and generally have a good trundle around



lastly see if you can collar an old north cyprus "hand"

to help you sort out what you are doing



north cyprus is a wonderful place but tricky for the inexperienced

also the cost of living and administrative system can be a problem



andre

SueIgoe


Joined: 05/09/2008
Posts: 5

Message Posted:
06/09/2008 21:39

Thank you all for advice. Much appreciated .and much food for thought. Thanks again

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
06/09/2008 22:32

andre: "if you buy trnc title it is much cheaper than pre-'74 turkish there are professional apologists for the south of cyprus who have infiltrated this discussion board."



As opposed to apologists for ethnic cleansing and the selling of property seized from refugees, many of whom are registered with both the International Red Cross and United Nations?



I don't know about the company you keep, but if I was at a dinner party and a guest revealed he had bought a nice holiday home built on land the legal owner was forced from at the point of a Turkish bayonet, I think there would be a stunned silence. I doubt any more invitations to the person would be forthcoming either. But it's so tempting, isn't it? And so CHEAP...

linus


Joined: 04/05/2008
Posts: 281

Message Posted:
06/09/2008 22:38

Kibrissibel



Where is the evidence the govt are refusing Pre 74 turkish title deeds. Do you mean they are delaying as opposed to not issuing. I read a couple of threads recently of people who had received deeds for pre 74 property



regards



Linus

cocos


Joined: 04/04/2008
Posts: 129

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 00:46

My brother has recently been refused permission to purchase on Pre 74 title land. He has not got a criminal record, nor is here near an army base so I know that what kibrissibel said is correct: the government are refusing PTP on pre 74 title despite the lawyer telling him at the time that it was safe to buy and was just a formality. Maybe the way you interpret what she said is wrong. She did not say they were refusing all PTP but had been told by some people that they had been refused PTP on pre 74 title land. From experience she is right and it is not guaranteed you will get PTP. Now the lawyer shrugs his shoulders and says this is Cyprus anything can happen! I have sought advice from HBPG re this and other matters here and don't forget that they are providing advice in there own time at there own cost and expense of petrol etc to help thousands of people here.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 07:35

we were given our pre '74 title deed this year. we are british. so this story about not being given them is totally untrue.

here,here pike totally agree. it may seem cheep but is it safe?

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 11:22

As I said, some people who have purchased pre74 title have been refused ptp so it has happened. I did not say that they were refusing all ptp for pre74 title. I did not say that the reason they were refused was because it was pre74 and I can't comment on that because I don't know. Only the interior ministry etc know their reasons for refusing people ptp. And because it has happened, buyers need to be aware that buying pre74 title does not guarantee they will be granted ptp. Some people are still waiting 3 or 4 years for their ptp and could be in a position where they have paid in full for their property and may be refused, so they will never be able to legally own it. This is why the ptp system needs to be changed to reduce the time limit to within a few months. Please note that you have to specify a particular property on your application to purchase. PTP is not just a formality, it is a pre-requisite and a legal requirement prior to purchasing and some people may find they have purchased only to be refused ptp afterwards.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 12:18

that is the chance everyone takes when buying property here. pre '74 turkish title is the only internationally recognised title deed available. an idea would be to buy from another expat who is named on the title deed. that way you should be able to get your ptp.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 12:32

msg28,



Good info.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 17:43

Personally I think the PTP is racist and should be scrapped altogether.

cocos


Joined: 04/04/2008
Posts: 129

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 19:20

The problem is there is no security when buying here. The laws don't protect you, the government doesn;t protect you. And the bigger question here is why are they not doing anything about it? Why don't they want the buyer to be protected? The economy is going down the toilet. Who do they expect are the ones propping it up? The foreign buyers of course. If you get your PTP then you are one step closer but you might never get your title deeds and not actually own what you paid for. And if there is no safety, can you explain SueIgo why you would actually want to buy here under those circumstances? If I knew then what I know now, I would not have bought. At the time there was not as much information as there is now. If my lawyer had done his job properly and told me that basically I would have no rights after I'd paid my money then I could have made the informed choice not to buy.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 19:25

Cocos

I agree entirely.

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 20:13

cocas I agree entirley .

Please sign the petition:



http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/petitioncyprus/index.html

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 22:40

cocas,I also agree.



But if SueIgoe decides to still take a chance there are somethings that can be done to limit the dangers,and one of these things would be to buy a completed property with deeds.Having the deeds would take away 50% of the danger .As for the other 50%,we can only hope for a change that ensures the dangers are eliminated soon.



Another reason to take only property with deeds, SueIgoe, is that as a single mum I imagine you have enough to do without the worries of the re-mortgaging of your property etc,and apart from the advice of HBPG you will be on your own as far as the legal side is concerned.There is as of yet no place or Govt office, legal or otherwise, from which you can get help or redress. By having the deeds someone has gone thro the system already for you.Sit back and enjoy the sun.



Bit like gambling, if you come and buy, say off plan with no title then its backing any of the runners.If you have a ready built with deeds then you are backing the favourite.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 07:52

you shouldn't be paying in full for your property until you have your permissions to purchase.

Molly


Joined: 30/08/2008
Posts: 299

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 09:25

Fire starter and PtePike



The law states that no-one should purchase until they have their permission. However, the government will not allow the HBPG to distribute this information because it will kill their economy stone dead. After all, what developer will hold their price for a period of 2-3 years. Hypocrasy don't you think!



In addition, they fail to enforce the laws and protect people who are acting in good faith and who contribute substantially to this economy.



kibrissibel is right to warn potential purchasers. Yes, some people have been fortunate to get their permission for pre 74 Turkish Title but many have not. The government are not completely lacking in their strategy - they have to be seen to be granting a few. It has slowly dawned on them over the past 4 years that they were in danger of losing the precious original Turkish land to foreigners. Furthermore, there are people waiting since 2002 and 2003 for their permissions and this is disgraceful.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 10:32

now i think there is a way around this. pay in full but in your contract have it stated that if anything is incorrect or anything is misrepresented then compensation should be due. also that the deed/contract would be fully assignable therefore you could sell on if ptp are refused. my friend in the uk is a barrister, his advice to us was always get another lawyer to check any contract you are about to sign, even in the uk. contracts are only written to the advantage of the person who wants you to sign.

windmill


Joined: 06/07/2008
Posts: 143

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 11:00

Pikes message 23,

Does he really think someone would invite him to dinner,maybe he meant himself served up to the pigs

mountbatten


Joined: 12/04/2008
Posts: 102

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 11:18

Molly,whats your opinion on the charges made by the solicitor,advocate,charging for emails etc,would you say they were more then fair

Regards

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 11:25

windmill. pikes posts are usually helpfull and informative. if you don't like that then go back to burying your head in the sand. pike, you are welcome to dinner at our house anytime.

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 12:39

Firestarter - unfortunately if you pay in full and then try to claim compensation afterwards, you are still in the position where you have paid all your money and may not have what has been contractully agreed. Anyone going through the court process is aware that if it even gets to a hearing, the case will have been adjourned so many times and you could be waiting years for a judgement. In the meantime, the vendor could have become a man of straw, gone bankrupt etc. Also, most peoples contracts do state they will be due compensation, but again, obtaining it is another matter.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 13:18

SueIgoe. Do not buy anything at the moment. That includes so called 'Turkish Title' land. Apply for your permissions and then wait.

joandjelly


Joined: 24/02/2008
Posts: 2953

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 18:41

No1Doyen - you can only apply for permission to purchase a specific property so unfortunately SueIgoe cannot do this. Actually it would be great if you could apply for permission in principal, i.e. check out criminal record and all that. It would then just be clarification from the Army that a property was suitable. Obviously it would help if the Army would designate "safe" areas but that would be far too sensible.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 19:15

When I bought my place back in 2001, the contract was agreed and copies signed by both parties plus notar's witnesses. One copy was in Turkish and the other in English. There was no extra translation charge as it was a standard template letter. I then paid a 10% deposit to the notar (certifying officer if Elko's reading!) pending my PTP coming through. If I backed out in that time I lost my deposit to the vendor and if he pulled out the same sum was payable to me. Permission came through in about three months, I handed out the readies to the seller who counted it all out, then we all went to the land registry to get the kocan and title changed on the ledger. I had to pay a couple of lira for some stamps across the road and that was it. And I can't understand why that still isn't being done as it's fairer for all.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 19:17

fire starter,



I gladly accept and will reciprocate. The first toast will be to a free Cyprus for all. Maybe by then it will already be reality.

jonnytwoscoop



Joined: 27/08/2008
Posts: 142

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 19:17

We are seriously thinking about purchasing in or around Alsancak after many holidays over the last 6 years and previously having thought that we had 'missed the boat' price wise BUT the prices seem to becoming somewhat more realistic , do you guys who are living there agree ? and also is it still a buyers market ? We would only really be interested in purchasing a resale after reading so many horror stories, do many of these appear?

thanks in advance and we will be over on friday morning for 19 blissfull days, maybe bump into a few of you then

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
09/09/2008 10:02

if you are told it is pre'74 turkish title, get a copy of the deed and village map and take it to the land office in the south, situated in nicosia. check that you are being told the truth. before parting any cash at all! friends of ours were told they were buying turkish title, after parting with the cash they found out it was exchangeland title. this was sold to them by a british couple. so be very carefull.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
09/09/2008 12:26

I agree with fire starter. People will blatantly lie to your face that the place they're selling is pre-74 title. My place is in a formerly mixed GC/TC neighbourhood and an English bloke was selling his house as Turkish title. The week before I'd had the GC owner in my house for coffee! Don't trust anyone in the TRNC unless you have corroborated what they claim to be true.

raybo


Joined: 06/08/2007
Posts: 175

Message Posted:
09/09/2008 13:41

listen to pte pike !! he knows what he is talking about only trust GC they are all so trustworthy.

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
10/09/2008 14:06

having read all of these posts it seems to be a veritable minefield trying to buy a proprty over there,but it does seem that easeist solution is to buy a resale property with all the documents in place,but as Pte Pike says you can still get caught if you are not careful.Ihave been considering apurchase over there and have found alot of good info here on this post.

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
10/09/2008 14:49

YES def buy a resale , you can see exactly what you are buying , what is in front of you , what is behind you etc , utilities are already connected , the road access . Hope this helps . contract should also be very straight forward , we purchased off plan and def would never advise anyone to go down this route it is a very big gamble .

JimmyG


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 900

Message Posted:
10/09/2008 16:09

Jonnytwoscoop - it's definitely a buyer's market and you've made a sensible decision in going for a resale if you do decide to buy. I bought in 2003 & don't regret it & as it's a place you've kept coming back to I'd say go for it if you see somewhere you like and can afford and if not I'm sure that you'll still have fun looking when you're on holiday. Good luck.

rasalih


Joined: 05/09/2008
Posts: 25

Message Posted:
10/09/2008 21:02

hi. we are in the process of building 5 villas of which 3 are for sale . They are in karaoglanoğlu. the turning just past Fatisa supermarket on the other side of the road. İf anyone is interested i would be more than happy to answer any questions .Please e mail me.We have not put them on the market yet.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
11/09/2008 07:52

raybo, the only way to find out is to go to the south and look at their land offices in nicosia. then you can be sure which title the property is. before parting any cash!

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
11/09/2008 09:37

FS in msg 54 is spot on. It is the only definitive record of pre 1974 titles.



Going back to story about PTP refusal. This story was actually in CT a few months ago and confirmed by governement for reasons stated above.



Obviously someone will "cherry pick" which titles to refuse in the interest of Cyprus heritage. An issue I 100% agree with, bad enough selling the country out without "throwing baby out with bath water".



Sell GC land and let the purchasers worry about the "cost" later. Just to confirm, we come in that group but made ourselves aware of the potential consequences. There was plenty of warning on internet 4 years ago so nobody should be arguing now that nobody told them.



Back to the thread. I agree with most of above - buy resale and do not believe anything you are told. Investigate everything yourself and if needs be find an independant surveyor as you would in UK. Yes, we all forget that bit - what would we do if buying in UK!!!!!!!!