greek cypriot applications to the north property commission

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 21:13

the number of greek cypriots applying to the north cyprus property commission

has reached 353 .the commission has so far settled 43 of the outstanding applications ,while 37 of these cases have been settled through compensation ,the commision offered the exchange of property as a settlement for two applications,both of which belong to a greek cypriot mike timvios who had earlier applied to the european court of human rights.

the commission has decided to return the property of the four applicants ,one of them after a political settlement.

meanwhile ,the commission is considering an application made by a greek cypriot who wanted to sell his property in north cyprus in line with a newly passed law in north cyprus . the greek cypriot applied to the commission for the sale of his property after reaching an agreement with a turkish cypriot buyer. following the completion of the necessary procedure by the commission the title deeds of the property will be handed over to the new owner at the north cyprus land registration department in line with the new law.

the immovable property commission was set up with the aim of providing a

domestic remedy for property claims by greek cypriots.



musin



long live the kktc

Aussie


Joined: 17/06/2007
Posts: 657

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 01:26

Musin



Its a pretty good start.



I guess depending on the final outcome of Orams and the current talks this could become a flood of applications.





Aussie

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 07:44

i'm sure i read somewhere that the e.u has told the gc's to go to the property commition rather than the e.u court. also have heard that the compensation offered was very low, which the gc's are not happy about.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 11:14

Hi Musin



As firestarter says the GCs dont seem that enamoured with the commission. Article from the cyprus mail



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



North’s property commission taking Greek Cypriot claimants for a ride



THE Turkish Cypriot property commission is paying Greek Cypriot applicants peanuts for their occupied properties in the north, shocking figures published yesterday show.



Out of £54.9 million sterling (€65 million) in claims from 41 applicants for a total of 1.7 million square metres of land, the property commission paid out only £6.4 million sterling (€7.7 million), according to the figures published in Politis.



To put the figure in perspective, Keo recently sold a mere 46,200 square metres of prime land in Paphos for a whopping €66 million.



Politis obtained documents from Strasbourg submitted by Turkey to the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) on July 1.



The documents are designed to make a case for the property commission to act as an effective domestic remedy, with the aim of halting Greek Cypriot property claims at the ECHR by validating the commission and providing a means for a ‘friendly settlement’.



However, Politis said that while the initial cases submitted to Europe by Turkey were designed to impress, an examination of the documents reveals several cases where Greek Cypriots were paid only £2-£3 (€2.40-€3.60) per square metre for their land.



One applicant was offered £14,000 (€16,800) for 4,682 square meters in Nicosia, or £3 (€3.60) per square metre. The claim was for €250,000.



In the government-controlled areas, the same amount of land would have gone for a minimum €35 per square metre for agricultural land in the remotest Paphos village, and at the top of the range, for nearly €500 per square metre of residential property in Dhali, where it would have cost a total of €1.9 million or so.



Another applicant received £15,000 (€18,000) for 7,767 square metres in a rural area, and a third only £5,000 (€6,000) for a 506 square-metre plot in Kyrenia.



The thorny issue of property is part of the ongoing discussions at the working groups set up by the two leaders. However, the property commission is not on the agenda, according to sources on one of the working groups.



The sources said not only had these refugees had their land stolen from them, but now they were not receiving the value of their properties.



“The compensation under a solution is equivalent with the value on this side,” said the sources. “But a lot of these people are in financial difficulties.”



The sources said the Turkish Cypriot side’s economic situation did not help, considering they were not even able to pay public servants’ wages recently.



“Their ability to pay for this thing is limited. They could afford to pay out one or two million in the first few cases to make a noise. But they have no budget for this.”



The sources said that there was an alternative to the property commission until a solution was reached, an organisation known as the Distribution of Burden of the Invasion, which arranges loans against the value of properties in the north. “People can get more through this method than the property commission,” said the source.



Since the property commission was set up in 2006, nearly 400 Greek Cypriots made applications for compensation, return or land swaps. But according to Politis, at least 16 have withdrawn their unsettled applications recently.



The documents sent to Strasbourg by Turkey showed 100 applications to the property commission in 2006 and by 2007, another 297. Minus the 41 settled cases and the 16 withdrawals, this leaves some 340 outstanding.



Politis said while the ‘portfolio’ presented by the commission to the ECHR showed a number of satisfactory outcomes, it had been picking and choosing the easiest cases

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 11:44

i agree with you cypruishome. this is the kind of stuff i have been hearing. the gc's are not happy bunnies about it either. my problem is that i don't believe they want the land/properties back to live in. i think it is all about money. so if they reclaimed it, they could re sell for a lot more than they are being awarded. this will lead to them wanting it back and not being willing to accept compensation.

from our side, we have tc friends who have land in pafos, they have been asking us to take them there to check on their land. they don't want to live with the gc's its about money. something both sides have in common.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 11:54

firestarter, you are going to have to stop calling me cyprusishome



I agree it's about money which equates to having security. Security is what every human being wants/needs.

As Susanne says there will also be some that want to go back to their ancestral home (I suspect this to be the elders)

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 15:44

Mark,

I am sure that you will have been called a lot worse, lol.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 15:52

You are right about that Paul. I am more woried about CIH being associated with me. Might harm his reputation

spook


Joined: 23/01/2008
Posts: 244

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 15:53

Pay compensation at todays value by all means,as long as TC owners receice same at current valueations for their land/homes they left in the south,it would be interesting to calculate who would owe what.

My feeling would be that the GC owners,who are possiblely occuping ex TC properties/land would be the losers.

frontalman



Joined: 28/02/2008
Posts: 499

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 16:31

Interesting that the ECHR appears to recognise the TRNC Land Registry, any comments Seans?

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 18:10

Does it really though, Frontal? It's still wait and see at the moment. I can't for the life of me understand why a sane person would take so much risk and go through all the stress of buying GC property. There's so many other attractive options out there. Never mind that it's immoral in the first place.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 19:38

frontalman

yes it does ,is the answer ,but i,m sure you knew that anyway.

mark

you are a fair man and in no way biased ,the turkish have always said that compensation will be paid at 74 valuations,does that sound unfair ,at

first it does ,but lets go a little deeper as ertan says its all one way street for the greeks. and they feel far superior to us turkish my statement not uk turks

the greeks have isolated us for 34 years ,how much money has the trnc lost in all that time through trade ,tourism ,etc .had they come to a settlement in 1976 for arguments sake ,then the compensation would not be so mean would it,however they continued to receive the handouts ,they continued to trade ,they continued their infrastruture,they continued their tourism,they continued living on our land and in our houses and they continued isolating us turkish ,what the turkish have achieved they have done so on their on backs unlike the greeks .so you see the compensation route was always there from day one if the greek cypriots choose to keep hanging on then the values will depreciate .when they choose to stop time in the trnc ,that meant everything

and if they choose to continue then they will lose as well as us ,fair i think ,

the hand outs they have recieved through aid far outstrips the values their properties ,in the 34 years they have disallowed us to trade the losses we have incurred is immoral.



musin

long live the kktc

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 19:55

Musin: "...the turkish have always said that compensation will be paid at 74 valuations..."



Not true. That was an Annan proposal rejected in 2004.



"...the greeks have isolated us for 34 years..."



Not true. The TC leadership did that to their own people.



"...the hand outs they (GCs) have recieved through aid far outstrips the values their properties."



What "aid"? Cyprus had to rebuild itself despite losing a third - and some of the most productive - of its territory. Most people would see that as something of an economic miracle and testimony to the determination and work ethic of the average Greek Cypriot. Perhaps you are confusing the issue with a Turkish hand-out dependancy culture and professional victim status which has been the ruin of the Turkish Cypriots' own homeland.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 19:55

Hi Musin



I wasn't trying to influence, just pointing out how the GCs feel at the moment about the commission.





I guess at any time the GC government could have issued deeds to all the displaced people in the south. This way they would have land, a property and inheritance that they could pass on to their family and to be able to sell at any time. I would have thought there was enough land to allow that to happen despite TC land in the south (probably not now though). If they were disadvantaged in terms of size then they could be paid compensation by their government. This compensation could have come from the aid that the GCs have received.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 20:55

hi mark

how about this then ,give the trnc back all the monies lost in the last 34 years of isolation and aid subsidies in line with what the greeks have recieved.

and in return we will pay compensation at current values.

not to much to ask ,surely.

the one way traffic has hit a cul de sac ,the greeks will now have to go back down the same road and meet us halfway.



kind regards

musin

long live the kktc

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
09/09/2008 09:50

sounds logical to me Musin



I also like your road metaphor mate





"Greek Cypriots must rank as one of the most subsidised countries in the world. It has for many years received massive infusions of aid from international organisations, and in 1995 the EU agreed to provide up to a further 74 million ECU. In addition it receives bilateral aid from Britain and other countries and benefits financially from the UN military prescence and the bases (the bases injet 60 million pounds per year in to the GC economy). It has a population of less than a million people, and according to the European commission (com (93) 313) it had a GDP per inhabitant of about ECU 9,000 per annum which is higher than in several member states in the community itself."



This quote was made in 2001 so does not include any figures on the cash injection it would have received when it joined the EU.



What has the GC government spent the money on? Another quote



"On 29 January 1999 Greek Cypriot finance minister Christodoulou revealed that the s-300 missiles had cost a staggering 115 million pounds. He added that South Cyprus total defence expenditure in 1998 amounted to 195 million pounds, while revenue was put at 170 million leaving a defecit of 25 million. The accumulated deficit in the the Greek Cypriot defence fund stood at 300 million cyprus pounds. The Greek cypriot administrations annual military spending is $US 850 per capita and is equal to the amount per capita spent on the USA on defence"

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
09/09/2008 09:54

because of the population satistics it would mean paying out the gc's more than they would be paying out to tc's.

musin the main reason you have been isolated for all these years is because of the goverments here, that you the people elected. loads of tc's went to the uk and have now returned. loads of tc's who never left opted to get e.u passports and have travelled the world. the opportunity was there, if you didn't take it that was your choice. we would say in the uk that it is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
09/09/2008 10:05

"The Greek Cypriots have always exagerated the number of their displaced persons, and they frequently claim in in excess of 200,000, but a cencus of evacuated Greek dwellings in 1974 showed that trhere cannot possibly be more than 105,000. This is approximately equal to the number of Tukish Cypriots who have been displaced - 25,000 in 1963 and 65,000 in 1974"



Michael Stephen

frontalman



Joined: 28/02/2008
Posts: 499

Message Posted:
09/09/2008 10:14

The truth is neither side could afford to pay compensation at today's values for all lost properties.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
09/09/2008 10:31

Which it is why it is very likely to fall upon the current occupiers of GC-owned properties.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
09/09/2008 10:42

I heard a rumour that the Americans have got agreement from both the TCs and GCs to build and develop the air base in Northern Cyprus. In return they have agreed to fund much of the compensation.



Probably just idle talk but you never know. It would provide the yanks with a strong strategic base. China have cleverly struck up deals behind the Americans back in Iraq and Russia has teamed up with Syria and and may continue to do so with Iran.

It provides Cyprus withy the funds toi make things happen

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
09/09/2008 10:49

the last thing north cyprus needs is to have an american base here. what so they can store all those nuk's on someone elses soil? i have lived near the american bases in the uk. they add nothing to the economy at all. they were also caught a couple of years ago, flying drugs into the uk from iraq. all hushed up, but the local press got hold of it. god bless america.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
09/09/2008 10:52

ps if that was to happen, the US would expect Turkey to increase it's naval patrols in the black sea to ward of the Russians which has just been asked to do plus it would want turkey to play a major part in protecting the oil pipeline that runs through Georgia and its country.

At the same time the Brits may pull out of Cyprus because it does not need to be there if America has its base.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
09/09/2008 22:03

firestarter



msg 18 sorry i have not understood what you mean ,prehaps you could explain



musin

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
09/09/2008 22:09

Mark,

Ihave it on good authority that your rumour about American air bases does indeed carry substance,

Paul.

no1doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
09/09/2008 22:09

Mark, I heard the same rumour this morning.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
09/09/2008 22:16

Hi Paul



Glad you decided to stay on the site Paul. I presume you had a good chat with dodger



Paul and Bill, I have thought about this American base and compensation. It's not that whacky.

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
09/09/2008 22:27

I was told about the American airbase over a year ago by a respected TC source, he seemed quite certain about it

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
10/09/2008 06:11

musin, all tc's have had the opportunity to move on from isolation. lots left for the uk and other places in the world. the tc people have taken the decitions on how the trnc is governed and run. up until the annan plan, when the tc people voted yes, and the gc's voted no. in all the prior years the tc people had the chance to change things and they chose not to. i know the history but you cannot keep blaming the gc's for all of the mistakes as they cannot also keep blaming the tc's. after all was it not mainland greece that started the whole chain of events. but we could go back before that and bothsides could blame the british. or the gc's could blame the ottoman empire. it goes on and on.

markkp



Joined: 27/02/2007
Posts: 41

Message Posted:
10/09/2008 08:52

Sorry to Go slightly of thread



The issue that the American's would like a Military base in Northern Cyprus is nothing new (The article below is from 2004), Indeed if you belive some reports there are already American NSA (National Secuirty Agency) personnel in the North.



I know there will be advantages and disadvantages to Northern Cyprus if this does actually happen, and am sure that would be the topic for a whole new thread. In my personal opinion I belive overall it would be benifical to the North and the South as whole.





A more permanent presence

Washington hopes that eventual reunification will open opportunities for a military presence, in addition to its well-established intelligence-gathering activities."No one can say with certainty that there has been a deal between Turkey and the USA regarding an American military presence," said a European diplomat in Istanbul, speaking to Asia Times Online on condition of anonymity. "The possibility hangs in the atmosphere, it depends upon what turn the negotiations [on reunification] take."



The base would be similar to those the Pentagon is constructing throughout strategic locations in East Africa and Central Asia. A possible move to Cyprus would be in harmony with the current realignment of the US presence in Europe, from Germany to Eastern Europe, while maintaining the focus of military operations on the Middle East.



Both Greek and Turkish media have reported on the development. According to Greece's Daily Times, the White House is studying the possibility of "sending a military force to Cyprus, in the form of a peacekeeping force ... US officials have already proposed this to the Turkish Cypriot side, stressing the island's strategic importance for the superpower's geopolitic interests," wrote the newspaper's diplomatic correspondent, Manos Roussos.



Cyprus would be turned into an "international mandate country" serving the interests of the US and its British ally, claimed the southern Cypriot newspaper, Simerini. It said NATO is particularly interested in getting access to the Gecitkale airport in the north of the island.



Using Cyprus as a logistics base would allow the Pentagon more flexibility in planning interventions in the Middle East and give it firmer control over the oil-rich regions of the Middle East, North Africa and the Caspian Sea, especially at a time when Libya's rehabilitation within the international community is gathering momentum.



In addition, it would allow easier supervision of regional sea-routes and complement the US presence in Djibouti that guards the southern access point to the Suez Canal, by establishing a presence near in the canal's northern exit.



"Cyprus has been useful for medical purposes, supply and reinforcement, food stuffs and so on," said Sitilides. "In the future, British bases could be made available to NATO for missions in the Middle East, but there is no guarantee that the island will remain secure."



In Turkey, a private television channel reported that Washington is keen to secure a presence in northern Cyprus as a means of protecting the Baku-Ceyhan oil corridor. A report on NTV pointed out that a US base on Cyprus would increase US "emergency intervention capabilities" in the Caucasus, Middle East and Central Asia and boost its pre-emptive strike capability as well as guaranteeing it a "security belt" in the area.



The strategic importance of the Turkish port city of Ceyhan - situated about 70km from the northern tip of Cyprus - is set to increase over the coming years as northern Iraqi oil flows out on the Kirkuk-Yumurtalik pipeline and the ambitious Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan (BTC) pipeline comes on-stream. The US already has a base close to the port, in Turkey's Incirlik air base.



Nothing new

A US military base would not be the first time the island played host to an American presence. The

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
10/09/2008 11:26

another excuse to park their nuk's and pedal drugs. god bless america!