371 servicemen murdered (lest we forget)

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
30/12/2010 20:36

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/5183952/The-forgotten-soldiers-buried-in-no-mans-land.html





These attrocities,very rarely get a mention,

Paul.

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
30/12/2010 20:55

These attrocities?



paul please tell the reason why those soldiers was killed ?



for what reason the brits were in cyprus ?

not for charity i believe..



those soldiers have been killed in a war. honor them as heroes not us murdered .

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
30/12/2010 21:04

the link below is a list of those who died in Cyprus ( and how) ....alot seem to be accidents ,,,



http://www.britains-smallwars.com/cyprus/Davidcarter/ROH.htm



not that such take away from moarning them ...

gary1950


Joined: 30/12/2010
Posts: 15

Message Posted:
30/12/2010 21:07

I get the feeling that the GC authorities will object to "a permanent memorial on Cyprus" for fear of reminding the world of EOKA's actions.

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
30/12/2010 21:08

I didn't know the Brits were at war in Cyprus angainst the Cypriots ?



Well that is new news ?

AnthonySmith


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
30/12/2010 21:10

A war, Tracer? Look how some of them died. War? Why was Ledra Street known as murder mile? What was Nicos Sampson, your best president, best known for during the Cyprus Emergency?



And, as you know your history so well, why didn't the Greek Cypriots embrace the offer of direct government put several times to them before the 1950s? The British brought many good things to this island, that the Greek Cypriots - with British money after 1960 as well - have never managed to mirror.



Having your cake and eating it comes to mind.



To me, all the rubbish on this island has served the idiots both sides of the divide. They think they are so important and the world has swallowed it whole. Even the UN talks of the two Cypriot communities, with no mention of the other communities that have been living here for centuries in some cases.



We should have left you to the Turks. Then you wouldn't even have the 63 per cent.

Denny


Joined: 09/12/2010
Posts: 261

Message Posted:
30/12/2010 21:11

I served as an enlisted man and later as officer with the British forces and was twice attached to the UN in Cyprus. And I have to agree with Tracer. We all know the score when we sign on the dotted line - and that means putting yourself in harm's way.



If your Queen sends you to a country where most of the people want independence - and some fool of a colonial ruler tells them they wouldn't be getting it in a hurry - then I would expect some of them to take up arms against me. It wasn't us as personally the EOKA guys were against - it was the uniform we wore and the flag we served under. I would possibly have done the same as them.



Now I can walk anywhere in Cyprus and shake hands with a Cypriot with no ill-will whatsoever. It was history and life goes on. Should I forever hate the Germans as a former enemy or for that matter the Irish, even though I know my name and those of five my brother officers was on a PIRA hit list in the 1990s?



Life's too short to bear grudges.

AnthonySmith


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
30/12/2010 21:15

Denny, a good attitude.

But I'm afraid this former infanteer in HM Forces doesn't see it that way. My failing, I'm sure.

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
30/12/2010 21:20

msg 8 ..so this includes excatly who ..Iraqis...afghans...Germans...Irish .....Cypriots .....?????

Denny


Joined: 09/12/2010
Posts: 261

Message Posted:
30/12/2010 21:21

Anthony,



I have absolutely no problem with that and can understand your feelings. Many would agree with you. I just believe in forgive and forget for a better personal karma and a better world. Have a great New Year.

AnthonySmith


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
30/12/2010 21:27

Apc2010 my Greek Cypriot man, you've forgotten the Welsh and the Scottish ;-)

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
30/12/2010 21:37

So anthony for you anyone who fights for his freedom is a terrorist?

mahatma gandhi was on them?

birdman



Joined: 20/09/2010
Posts: 690

Message Posted:
30/12/2010 21:38

Tracer you really are a biased plonker! A war is between two (or more) armed forces, uniformed. The murdering EOKA COWARDS hid in civilian clothing, killing inocent people including women and children, and even GREEK CYPRIOTS if they thought they were friendly towards the Turkish Cypriots. Genocide was being committed by these terrorists (and that's just what they were ) to CLEANSE Cyprus of Turkish Cypriots so that ENOSIS, (joing Cyprus with Greece) could come into effect. ( The Greeks did not want it or Makarios but still invaded in July 1974 after years of EOKA TERRORISM ! Get your facts right before sprouting your bile on this site!

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
30/12/2010 21:42

I wonder where the ANC and Nelson Mandela would fit in this thread ..???

AnthonySmith


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
30/12/2010 21:45

Ah, the old argument then, Tracer? The answer is no. But to use your example. I may be mistaken, but didn't Ghandi manage to achieve his aim without violence?

If you think violence is the answer, fuelled by your very religious archbishops, then we're on completely different pages of different books. Christofias is your first president untainted by Eoka, but he can't escape its clutches.

I think Ghandi would not have approved of the GC approach. Obviously, that is an opinion and it may be very wrong.

birdman



Joined: 20/09/2010
Posts: 690

Message Posted:
30/12/2010 21:53

Tracer, message 12

Yes, anyone who murders, whether they be armed forces OR CIVILIANS whist diguised as a peaceful looking civilian, is cowardly and is definately a terrorist ! Grivas was the first on the scene (as a news reporter ) in many instances . Because he planted the bombs and obviously knew when and where they would explode. Terrorists do NOT CARE who they kill as long as they believe they are in the right ! Don't be a moron Tracer and yes, look up the word because that is just what you are being! ( Very Stupid Person : adult with mental age of 8 - 12)

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
30/12/2010 22:09

Its simple we were a colony the only way to fight was by resistance and gerilla war we dident had an army.



i never said violence is the only way .

it was right at that time ,for today was wrong .



"killing inocent people"

for them they were traitors of the cause. cause they were collaborating with the colonial forces.

also the french went underground to fight the germans are those terrorists too.

so in the eyes of the enemy they were terrorist but for their own people was heroes.

basil


Joined: 10/04/2009
Posts: 168

Message Posted:
30/12/2010 22:29

So, according to tracer's twisted logic, if you don't agree with a given system of government it's fine to bomb indiscriminately, and shoot a few people in the back, including non-combatants, wives, etc to get your own political way.



Strangely that doesn't include people who having lived in Cyprus for generations, did NOT wish to become part of Greece ...



be they Turkish Cypriot, Greek Cypriot or British living here perfectly legally and legitimately according to the laws of the day ...



Mutlu Yillar!

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
30/12/2010 22:29

How the helll can you say the terrorists you support are simular to the French against the Nazis.



You should back off this thread and hang your head in shame !

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
30/12/2010 22:35

Is not martin mcguiness a mp now ..????



as I said before Nelson Mandela .??

lovingcyprus


Joined: 02/03/2007
Posts: 1272

Message Posted:
30/12/2010 22:47

Tracer, I guess you really remember what happened in the years up to 1959 don't you.



Oops I forgot you were only born around 1961 so you obviously have learnt about what happened pre 1959 from other sources, I wonder what those were?

basil


Joined: 10/04/2009
Posts: 168

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 00:07

Both tracer and apc leap to the defence of EOKA murderers,



but in the next breath moan and criticise a necessary, legitimate and highly effective intervention by Turkey in 1974,



during which it became apparent that EOKA 'freedom fighters', who were happy to shoot defenceless GCs, TCs and Brits, were much less happy when they faced organised and equally well armed opponents.



It was fine when the 'Greek' cypriot population forced TC's from their homes and livelihoods, but then the tables were turned ....



and the likes of apc and tracer have been whinging about it ever since.

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 00:09

message 20 apc , he is indeed xxxx Happy new year xxx

Denny


Joined: 09/12/2010
Posts: 261

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 06:50

Birdman,



When you are occupying someone's country (like the Ottomans and the Venetians and The Franks before us) against their will you can only expect some of the population to rise against you. The only way you can oppose the colonial power is by being an insurgent. We all had to do our duty when the we had to. The minute the ceasefire is given, you leave that behind you and work for a better future. We owe it to the next generation.

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 08:31

Denny this is exactly my point of view but some members here like to twist everything .



msg 18

"So, according to tracer's twisted logic, "

basil ......... so the same goes for USA ......can you tell me how many collateral damages they had and still have .in iraq . with their smart bombs. EOKA was killing colonial forces and traitors. if this is a twisted logic tell me what are the facts .

EOKA B YES THEY WERE MURDERERS CAN WE AGREE ON THAT .

what about TMT ? yes I know "freedom fighters." tell that to kavazoglou and misiaouli.

MSG 21

lovingcyprus how did you learn the history of your country before you?



birdman unworthy for any comments.

AnthonySmith


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 08:35

Denny, this island has never been "Greek". And its history has been dominated by rule from outside - Phoenecians, Romans, Egyptians, English (Richard the Lionheart), Lusignans, Venetians, Ottomans. The problem is that in 1960 the Greeks believed themselves the sole rulers of the island and screwed it up. And the UN stood by and let the murders happen because of their rules of engagement - that has happened elsewhere.

I simply don't understand the "occupying their country" - if you go back you'll probably find little Greek in many, just the ability to speak Greek.

NCMan



Joined: 19/09/2009
Posts: 670

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 08:36

I am sorry Denny ,

I seem to have lost something here how come according to your file you were born in 1970,

So you must have flown through the ranks to be an officer in the 1990's.

trooper


Joined: 04/07/2009
Posts: 211

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 09:45

I'm with Birdman and a few others. Stalking unarmed off duty servicemen or civilians and then shooting them in the back is nothing short of murder. The GC's then were our enemy and I don't think much has changed since. Send the Turkish army away and they would repeat their diabolical behaviour towards the TC'S and British tomorrow.

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 09:58

The pointless bit is that Cyprus would have ceased to be a colony anyway very soon so all the deaths were in vain, it was the issue of Enosis that drove the insurgency.

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 10:13

msg 26 sums it all up.



Sorry to say this Jack, but you are one of the reasons this island is still split in two. You have not learned from the previous generation's mistakes and i fear you never will.

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 10:24

trooper

when we were fighting with you the ww2 with your promises for self-determination (i never support enosis) if we join the forces we were very good friends at the time later on you forgot those promises, it dident suit you then .

typical british behavior what suits them right.

but you have the bitterness of what happened in 55 59 how a tiny country suck the brits out for independence.

but in this tiny country you have much to blame for your actions you garble everything according to your needs.

and turning the two major populations against each other. the british finger was and is everywhere.

So dont try to change the history of this country according to your needs again

honor your heroes without blaming others for your actions.

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 10:26

Denny, this island has never been "Greek"

anthony yes all of them pass from here but nobody was able to change us .

we are here for 3000 years again you garble a countries history according to your needs .

also you can say konstntinoupolis is turkish and never was greek.

by the way IAM A CYPRIOT.

NCMan



Joined: 19/09/2009
Posts: 670

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 10:27

Well said Tracer

Jovial_John


Joined: 31/01/2009
Posts: 1024

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 10:30

Cyprus was offered independence in the late 1940s and refused it - the people just didn't want it. Some wanted the status quo, a minority wanted Enosis. It was discussed several times later but no takers. Eoka did not want independence; they wanted union with Greece - to swap one colonial rule for another. They also wanted to banish all Turkish Cypriots.

Compare Cyprus to Crete. After WW1 Britain took control of Cyprus from Turkey (previously they had only rented it) and Greece was given control of Crete. A year later not a single one of the 110,000 Turkish citizens remained in Crete. Thus Greece's benevolent colonial rule. I don't think Turkish Cypriots had any illusions about their future after Enosis.

The evil archbishop couldn't win Enoisis so settled for independence in 1960. He broke the deal when EOKA B attacked the Turkish Cypriots in December 1963 and it must always remain the shame of we British that we did not honour our role of guarantor - either then or in 1974.

trooper


Joined: 04/07/2009
Posts: 211

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 10:58

Tracer; sadly you are a typical Cypriot; blame everyone else for your problems but yourselves.

It's always the Brits, Americans,. Europe the man in the moon etc.

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 11:26

john please go and read some history to get your facts right

but crete was never given to greece it was the rebelion in 1905 by venizelos..... so the brits and the french fleed encircle the island .



you gave a promise for self-determination to cyprus . and after the war your prime minister said NEVER.



Just for you information read the history of the cypriots regiment in the british forces.

just read the actions of this regiment in el alamein and rimini in your history books

and the british slogan for this regiment was 'if you fight with us you fight for the union with greece.



and also in a referendum in the 1950s the 98% voted for enosis including many tcs. cause at that date they were CYPRIOTS .then you make them tcs.

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 11:30

No tracer your GCs friends made them TC's by trying to cleanse them, you must be aware ethnic divisions have been on Cyprus since ancient history however it was only the murderous thugs of the Eoka that wished to cleanse the island.

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 11:32

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprus_Regiment

AnthonySmith


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 11:46

Tracer, I'm afraid you've fallen victim to the Greek Cypriot lie. Not your fault, you've been brought up in it. Why did they try to rewrite the history books a few years ago? Because of innacuracies? Who would have thought it.

And to say the Greek-speaking people of this island have not been changed by outside rule of 3,000 years is simply sticking your head in the sand.

If you insist on trying to use examples from history, learn history, learn the lessons of history and don't just come up with Wikipedia articles. We all know how they can be trusted.

For the record, Britain didn't really need Cyprus or the Cypriots. This island was simply a means to an end, initially to keep hold on the vast swathes of empire that really mattered. More recently, as its aircraft carrier in the Mediterranean.

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 12:04

antthony if we were in court i would say........... you are out of order .

you are playing the ostrich game not me just go to the british files if you dont like wikipedia so many millions are using it for you its all lies . typical brit.

I have a british uncle so i know what iam saying .

AnthonySmith


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 12:12

Tracer, thank you. I do know the history. I spent time learning about Cyprus - from all sources - before I came here and have not stopped since I came here. And that includes listening to people both side of the divide. And not just Greek Cypriot or Turkish Cypriot.

Your attempts to win support for spoilt, childish murderers and those who want this island to be theirs, when it has never been theirs, will not persuade me. One of the texts I learned in Greek Literature lessons was that of Xenophon. He should have hailed from Nicosia, not Athens, IMHO.

Learn to share. It's a simple fact of life.

And for the record, if you knew anything about the way of courts in the real world, you would be overruled.

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 12:25

twisted minds .

birdman



Joined: 20/09/2010
Posts: 690

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 12:54

So I don't deserve a mention tracer ! ( message 25 )

Is that because you refuse to acknowledge my mentioning that the murderous cowards of EOKA, DID KILL WOMEN AND CHILDREN INDISCRIMATELY, and were so brave they shot British servicemen IN THE BACK ( you didn't answer that in your blog!) Dispicable in their nature, out for their own ends. Ignoring the majority of GC's who did NOT want ENOSIS or anything to do with Greece. You've confirmed to all on this site that you are a MORON.

As for Denny, I just do not believe you were ever an officer in the British Forces ? If you were then you have a twisted mind for a British serviceman!

jUST FOR INFORMATION : I was a former Sergeant Major in the Royal Marine Commandoes but never served in Cyprus. I have NO bias either way for Greek Cypriots OR Turkish Cypriots but never hear the TC's winging like Tracer!

birdman



Joined: 20/09/2010
Posts: 690

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 12:57

For all those interrested, there is now a wonderful memorial to all the 371 British Forces murdered during the Insurgency in the Old British Cemetery in GIRNE ( Formally known as KYRENIA !)

decanddyl


Joined: 17/01/2009
Posts: 792

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 13:15

Only a coward would shoot two young soldiers (in a shop picking up groceries) in the back.

Jovial_John


Joined: 31/01/2009
Posts: 1024

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 13:25

Tracer may or may not be right about the timing of the Greek takeover of Crete but he does not deny the displacement of all The Turkish citizens. Unfortunately it is very hard to find any information on this because nearly everything is Greek sourced and the history is very selective and probably highly modified. Certainly, all I read on these sites suggests that it has always been Greek and has no Ottoman history whatsoever.

No doubt if the genocide commenced in 1963 had been as successful as that in Crete, the history of Cyprus would read very differently today.

gary1950


Joined: 30/12/2010
Posts: 15

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 14:01

In msg 20 Apc2010 wrote "Is not Martin McGuiness an MP now"



All that shows is that the UK is a democracy. The actions of the IRA are still deplored by virtually all ... as should be the actions of EOKA. Likening the actions of Ghandi and Mandela to those of EOKA is ludicrous.

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 14:09

Crete was Ottoman for about 200 years much like Cyprus, tracers view of Cretan history is suspect independent Crete was formed in 1898 and the Turks left, Union with Greece was in 1908, there was no heroic Hellenic struggle as tracer would like us to think, it all seems very orderly and probably very sensible at the time.

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 14:21

msg 47 ....the anc were a terriost organisation ..???



and at no point did I mention Ghandi ...

gary1950


Joined: 30/12/2010
Posts: 15

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 14:31

So you are likening the British presence here with the Apartheid Regime

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 14:41

come one you brits all your scheming all over the world and now you are masqueraded as virgin marys.



Have a nice new years eve end a good 2011.

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 14:52

Tracer, I wouldn't get too excited about the 95% ballot in the 50's. Considering how it was done. Two books outside a church. One red and one black. Having heard the ratings of the priest and hell fire if they vote no, in front of everybody including ones employer to sign the red book for no? I expect fairer thought from you my friend.

In fact to think that 5% risked the wrath of the church and unemployment must have had some balls. But the figures only include church goers not the whole population.

As far as killing Brits in the 50's soldiers I agree but women and children. The biggest mistake was targeting TC policemen which set the two communities on a war path which we have not recovered from yet.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 15:05

Man is the Only Patriot,He sets himself apart in his own country,under his "Own"flag and sneers at the other nations,and keeps multitudinous uniformed assassins on hand at heavy expense,to grab slices of other peoples countries and keep them from grabbing slices of his..

And in the intervals between campaigns, he washes the "Blood of his hands"and works for "The Universal Brotherhood of Man".........with his "Mouth"...................

NCMan



Joined: 19/09/2009
Posts: 670

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 15:08

I think it is time that this thread was closed Mods come on.

AnthonySmith


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 15:10

No, actually, I've come round to Tracer's way of thinking.

We're too often led and put up rather than act. So, those freedom fighters who have tackled bad regimes for the betterment of their people, I salute you.

In particular, those Turks who came to a foreign country to help their Turkish brothers in Cyprus, where Greece engineered a bloody coup and put the Greeks of Cyprus against each other. They ousted the president who had been legally voted in for a man who had received no votes from the general public. They gained their goal through murder and bloodshed rather than the ballot box.

It was the Turks who came to end this illegal activity and restore freedoms.

But yet again, the Greek-speaking people of Cyprus chose not to cooperate but to bleat. Makarios, who had encouraged his kinfolk to kill Brits, went to....oh yes, England. Rather strange really given the thrust of his beliefs.

There were chances to put things right in 68, 77 and 79 - the Greek speakers said no. Fact.

NCMan



Joined: 19/09/2009
Posts: 670

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 15:41

Still no reply from Denny Ref Msg 27.

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 15:48

msg 55...."So, those freedom fighters who have tackled bad regimes for the betterment of their people, I salute you. "



does this cover all freedom fighters that believe the regime is bad ..???

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 17:07

Jack, why did a large amount of GC dispalced people come to the UK instead of going to the motherland of Greece. I could never work that one out ?



One minute you were killing the British to get them out of Cyprus, the next Makarios was asking them to come back and sort out the Turks! You had your chance to run the Island and messed up big time. Only a big compromise on your part will ever give a possible chance of shared ownership.



EQUAL rights to one and all.

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 17:11

Gcs/tcs went to the uk because most had british passports .....

AnthonySmith


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 17:34

Apc, I was being ironic. Like copperonic, but different ;-)

basil


Joined: 10/04/2009
Posts: 168

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 18:19

apc: "Gcs/tcs went to the uk because most had british passports ..... "



But surely your brave freedom fighters would wish to embrace the wonderful hellenic motherland, rather than creep off to the land of the nasty oppressors who ruled them so viciously from the 1870's on ... taking over from the nasty Ottomans who allowed their Orthodox Church to pretty much run the country ...



Or is much of what you spout on here to needle expats just a crock?



Mutlu Yillar ... soon TRNC will enter yet another year free from the clutches of the dark side.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 18:22

As i understand it (correct me if i am wrong) the British servicemen where killed by Greek Cypriot fighters,that belonged to an organisation called Eoka.This organisation killed servicemen that were on and off duty.And didnt hold back when it came to murdering innocent civilians either,

Paul.

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 18:23

Good one basil

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 19:19

apc.....doh! somehow I knew that was the reason. Motherland did not want them to be honest.



msg 61. basil, totally correct British when it suits!



More like the Greeks did not want you.



I remember being in a restaurant in Kefalonia and some people had started off a conversation about Cyprus. the owner came over and I thought.... shi£ here we go.....he lambasted the GC's as being a load of whinging ba@tards and that they got what they deserved and even the greeks did not want them as they used the word greek when it suited them...... just goes to show eh.



even out local GC mechanic in Kentish Town says "Hey Ray, they are a Bunch of greedy ba@tards" he goes back regular to the Island. Seems the word "ba@stards" is a commonly used phrase to persons who speak greek.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 19:49

http://www.britains-smallwars.com/cyprus/cater.htm



Well worth a read through,

Paul.

gary1950


Joined: 30/12/2010
Posts: 15

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 20:23

Msg 61 - Basil wrote "But surely your brave freedom fighters would wish to embrace the wonderful hellenic motherland, rather than creep off to the land of the nasty oppressors who ruled them so viciously from the 1870's on ... taking over from the nasty Ottomans who allowed their Orthodox Church to pretty much run the country ..."



That is so well put Basil

Denny


Joined: 09/12/2010
Posts: 261

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 21:28

AnthonySmith,

I know Cyprus has never been Greek but the majority of the population speak Greek and identify with the GO Church. It's a spiritual and cultural thing.

However, I'm pleased to see that the GCs who are members of this board identify themselves as Cypriots and not Greeks. Also they weren't even born during the EOKA days. Why should we hold them responsible for the "Sins of the Father" - if indeed the EOKA campaign was a sin in the first place rather than a fight for freedom and self-determination, which should be denied to no man.

Denny


Joined: 09/12/2010
Posts: 261

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 21:32

NCMan,

Worry thee not. I try and reply to posts but spend my time off with my children hence the delay.

Anyway, the default birth year on this board is 1970 and I never bothered personalising it. I was actually born in the 1960s. You can take it from me that I served as a regular then reservist from the 1980s until the 2000s.

Denny


Joined: 09/12/2010
Posts: 261

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 21:56

Birdman wrote:

"Grivas was the first on the scene (as a news reporter ) in many instances."

Here we see the danger of having a little knowledge diluted by a lot of mistakes. You are confusing 1950s EOKA leader Grivas with 1970s EOKA-B leader Nicos Sampson.

"I just do not believe you were ever an officer in the British Forces ? If you were then you have a twisted mind for a British serviceman!"

Maybe I just don't fit the stereotype of an institutionalised, slightly maladjusted ex-serviceman but then again I don't have to explain myself. But for a former WO in the Corps, I'm surprised you spell "Commandos" as "Commandoes". It would have hit my mess bill hard if I had made that mistake. ;)

birdman



Joined: 20/09/2010
Posts: 690

Message Posted:
01/01/2011 02:09

Denny, so a typing error makes me wrong ?

"If indeed the EOKA campaign was a sin in the first place" ? ( Your words) Where are you coming from? Are you saying that EOKA were correct to murder innocent people as well as servicemen? Even servicemen differentiate between the two!

So are you telling me that you were in THE CORPS ? If so then have the neck to say who you served with or are you too ashamed/embarased to let us know?

If you were born in the 60's you could not have served much time in the regular forces to be a reservist officer from the 80's till 2000 ? (what rank for regular and reserve?)

As for calling me an "institutionalised, slightly maladjusted ex serviceman" ? You don't even know me so on what do you base that assumption, other than I disagree with all you write! You are talking from your backside and we all know what comes out of there!

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
01/01/2011 02:23

These freedom fighters , where are they all now xxx

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
01/01/2011 10:53

Lilli: Many are 'cabaret'/nightclub owners [30+] in Paphos - that I know for a fact. Others are 'favourably placed' in GC government depts., including the police, immigration & customs.

NCMan



Joined: 19/09/2009
Posts: 670

Message Posted:
01/01/2011 11:26

OK Denny so what you are saying is that you were not a regular soldier like me you were a part timer who spent most of your career here with the UN . Nice one Remf .

Denny


Joined: 09/12/2010
Posts: 261

Message Posted:
01/01/2011 13:56

birdman,



Sorry, but if your knowledge of the EOKA campaign is so shaky that you don't know who the leaders were and what they were doing, how credible does that make the rest of your post?

You also make false assumptions about my own service but more importantly my views on the subject being discussed. Where did I ever condone murdering civilians? Nowhere. Where did I call you an "institutionalised, slightly maladjusted ex-serviceman"? Nowhere.

"Medic!" ;)

Denny


Joined: 09/12/2010
Posts: 261

Message Posted:
01/01/2011 13:59

NCMan,

I never served in the British Army so can't really help you other than to say I certainly didn't spend most of my time with UNFICYPY, coming twice on short attachments to fill a specialist slot.

Back to the subject under discussion - do a people have the right to take up arms against a colonial occupier after self-determination has been denied them? Your call.

AnthonySmith


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
01/01/2011 14:27

Denny,



I'm getting the feeling of porky pies. You say you never served in the British Army in message 75, but in message seven you say: "I served as an enlisted man and later as officer with the British forces and was twice attached to the UN in Cyprus. And I have to agree with Tracer. We all know the score when we sign on the dotted line - and that means putting yourself in harm's way.



If your Queen sends you to a country where most of the people want independence - and some fool of a colonial ruler tells them they wouldn't be getting it in a hurry - then I would expect some of them to take up arms against me. It wasn't us as personally the EOKA guys were against - it was the uniform we wore and the flag we served under. I would possibly have done the same as them."



Your words.



As a former regular, reservist and then TA soldier who served as a lance jack in his four years in the regs and then as a lieutenant in the TA your words are making less and less sense.

Denny


Joined: 09/12/2010
Posts: 261

Message Posted:
01/01/2011 14:49

Anthony,

What isn't making sense to you? That someone who has served their country (1983-2000, possibly longer than you have) may be able to see the bigger picture about the people who have opposed British forces in history?

AnthonySmith


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
01/01/2011 14:56

You're trying to pass yourself as serving Queen and country one minute, and then never serving in the British Army the next.

So, you are playing biased and hiding behind half-truths. Simple really.

You were not a British soldier, so why would your name be on a provo death list?

Go on, come up with some plausible explanation - at least to you.

CyprusChill


Joined: 08/05/2009
Posts: 666

Message Posted:
01/01/2011 16:09

Reporting within the Telegraph of such a period in time and the atrocities encountered, warrants a need for respect to those that lost there lives and such a memorial would enable a place of peaceful respect, contemplation and closure.

Denny


Joined: 09/12/2010
Posts: 261

Message Posted:
01/01/2011 17:31

Anthony,

Why do you think it's only possible to serve Queen and Country in the Army? Why would only soldiers have their names on Provo death lists? Can't you see where you've gone wrong? Many serving and former members of the Royal Navy, Royal Marines, Royal Air Force and their Reserves would take huge offence at being marginalised (or maybe just forgotten) by you.

Put your money where your mouth is and I'll bet you £10,000 - or £100,000 if you'd prefer - that I can prove what I said was true. Contact me off-board by e-mail and we can make the arrangements either in Cyprus or UK. Fair enough?

AnthonySmith


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
01/01/2011 17:53

Ha ha ha. Keep squirming. As I said, hide behind the half truths. You, Tracer and APC2010 will enjoy nice get-togethers blaming the British for everything.

Denny


Joined: 09/12/2010
Posts: 261

Message Posted:
01/01/2011 18:03

Anthony,



I take it you are not quite as confident about your claims against me and no longer wish verification of service? If so, that's something of a loss of face for you. All officers know the importance of honesty and integrity.

basil


Joined: 10/04/2009
Posts: 168

Message Posted:
01/01/2011 20:08

'Denny'



Having read your various comments (as copied in message 76), I don't feel inclined to accept lectures from you on honesty or integrity.



Straight as a metal coathanger, your posts contradict themselves.



Nobody cares whether you were or weren't in the UK forces. Nobody is fooled by your vague attempt at mystery as you dig yourself deeper.



You support and try to justify EOKA murders. That says it all; don't care if you were Commander James Bondiopopolis back in the day - you're an idiot now, and the loss of face is all yours.

Denny


Joined: 09/12/2010
Posts: 261

Message Posted:
01/01/2011 20:42

basil,

You don't need to accept any lectures from someone who has no interest in speaking to you. Trying to stick up for foolish people only makes you look twice as foolish.

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
01/01/2011 20:52

Look dont be arguing with each other, today a suiside bomber in egypt in a church, now thats bad. We cant change the history. I know you are trying to make a point but let it go., sorry i will butt out now but to see this today in a church, well my blood boiled x hjappy new year to you all xxxxx

Denny


Joined: 09/12/2010
Posts: 261

Message Posted:
01/01/2011 20:58

Lilli,



Yes, suicide bombings are bad.

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
01/01/2011 21:17

lilli .......one mans freedom fighter ...........the other mans terriost .............







who should decide ..??????

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
01/01/2011 21:20

i know when you are all right, who shoud decide, different views, i really must leave you to it. xxx

birdman



Joined: 20/09/2010
Posts: 690

Message Posted:
01/01/2011 21:20

Denny,

your supercilious attitude and your half truths, are what you are hiding behind. As requested earlier by me but ignored by you : - Who did you serve with ? and for how long? what was your rank when you left both as an enlisted man and as a commissioned officer ?

Your Message 7 " I served as an enlisted man and later as an officer with the British Forces" ( I note you said WITH the British Forces, not IN the British Forces ! Subterfuge; I suspect, as you had implied that you were IN the British Forces !

Your post 82 "Verification of Service " ! Yet more subterfuge, verification of service WITH WHOM ? ( You still have failed to answer.

Your message 69 " stereotype of an institutionalised, slightly maladjusted ex serviceman" by inference, suggestets that if you are not the aformentioned, then I AM. So don't try and hide behind rhetoric.

And for your information, Royal Marines are NEVER EX they are FORMER as, once a Royal Marine, Always a Royal Marine !

Denny


Joined: 09/12/2010
Posts: 261

Message Posted:
01/01/2011 21:34

birdman,

I thought you'd given it a rest. I've told you what to do if you want to find out about my service in HM Forces and Reserves. Basil for one has already posted that nobody's interested, so take this off-board and e-mail me, OK?

"And for your information, Royal Marines are NEVER EX they are FORMER as, once a Royal Marine, Always a Royal Marine !"

You've lost me there. For starters, "former" and "ex" mean the same thing. Secondly most, if not all, ex-marines can spell the name of their own service. Should I put that down to it being New Year's Day?

Anyway, you have my e-mail.

birdman



Joined: 20/09/2010
Posts: 690

Message Posted:
01/01/2011 21:36

Denny, your message 68

You state you were born in the 60's ( note 60's NOT 1960) so your "regular" time was very limited if you were in the "reserves" from the the 80's until 2000's .( What are the 2000's ? It's either 2000 or into the 2000's !

By trying to impress, you are confusing your blog by issuing general dates. Subtafuge again ? In the Corps we call it BULLSHIT.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
01/01/2011 21:44

Tracer,

Re-mess 2,point taken.The servicemen where on active service,having been brought back from

Egypt.



apc re-mess 3,thanks for the link.The one that really strikes homw was the off duty corporal that was killed whilst off duty and shopping with his wife and child,

Paul.

Denny


Joined: 09/12/2010
Posts: 261

Message Posted:
01/01/2011 21:45

birdman,

Put your money where your mouth is off-board and take me up on my bet - £10,000 or £100,000 - if you feel so sure of yourself. Otherwise people may think that favourite Corps word fits you rather well.

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
01/01/2011 21:49

personally ...slighty off topic ............if you join the armed services .......what do you expect..????



if I joined the fire bridgage .....i would expect ......fires ....

birdman



Joined: 20/09/2010
Posts: 690

Message Posted:
01/01/2011 21:56

denny

PROCRASTINATION, YOU STILL HAVEN'T ANSWERED ANY QUESTIONS, i HAVEN'T STATED ANY FACTS ABOUT YOU 'COS i DON'T KNOW ANY, YOU JUST KEEP AVOIDING THE QUESTIONS !

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
01/01/2011 23:57

denny any reply from cannon fodder regarding the bet ..???

basil


Joined: 10/04/2009
Posts: 168

Message Posted:
02/01/2011 00:04

apc,

"personally ...slighty off topic ............if you join the armed services .......what do you expect..????"



Miss, Miss! - To be shot in the back by some cowardly EOKA thug Miss!!



I think not.



I expect most of the 371 who EOKA terrorists murdered hoped to march about a bit, paint things white, and salute anything which wasn't painted white. During the time when your 'glorious heroes of the revolution' were bombing and backstabbing their way to union with Greece, National Service meant that those they beat and butchered were conscripts, not career soldiers.



Enough drivel about freedom fighters wanting independence from the oppression of the British Raj or whatever.

Your precious Orthodox churchmen didn't like the fact that from time to time were put in their place by the government of the day. They didn't want independence. They wanted full control via Enosis.



And they told lies ....

Still do.









if I joined the fire bridgage .....i would expect ......fires

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
02/01/2011 00:08

basil as a british ahtiest .................if you join the army ...........you are expected to defend/kill people ......hence the tanks/guns etc ..........how is it a surpise if some one does it to you ..?????

basil


Joined: 10/04/2009
Posts: 168

Message Posted:
02/01/2011 00:09

If I started to repress, murder and dispossess a fifth of the population because they weren't dlighted at the idea of Enosis ...



I would expect to get my a**e kicked by neighbouring Turkey.



Doh!

basil


Joined: 10/04/2009
Posts: 168

Message Posted:
02/01/2011 00:14

message 98

'.if you join the army



Prior to 1960 they didn't 'join'.



They were conscripted.



If you plunder the lives and livelihoods of the Turkish Cypriot population, tear up your own constitution and generally act as a rogue state (as 'RoC' did from Christmas '63 on) ... how is it a surprise if some one does it to you?

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
02/01/2011 00:28

"tear up your own constitution and generally act as a rogue state ... how is it a surprise if some one does it to you? "



pretty much what the uk/us did in Iraq/afghanistan .........without un resolutions ( opps dont mention them )

basil


Joined: 10/04/2009
Posts: 168

Message Posted:
02/01/2011 00:38

Message 101 - Irrelevant to Cyprus, but a smokescreen response typical of GC trolls. I didn't vote for UK involvement in either arena; perhaps Tony Bliar should have read more Kipling.



Shall we discuss Greeks involved in atrocities in the former Yugoslavia? Supply of arms in that conflict? (let's not).



A little more about what to expect if you are in the fire brigade ...



http://web.archive.org/web/20080227200555/ http://www.britains-smallwars.com/cyprus/MACEY/11+SECRET+PAPER-threat+02.jpg

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
02/01/2011 00:40

the same site i posted in msg 3 .............??????????????????????

basil


Joined: 10/04/2009
Posts: 168

Message Posted:
02/01/2011 00:40

Forum broke the link; no space after the ....555/http:



http://web.archive.org/web/20080227200555/ http://www.britains-smallwars.com/cyprus/MACEY/11+SECRET+PAPER-threat+02.jpg

Denny


Joined: 09/12/2010
Posts: 261

Message Posted:
02/01/2011 01:50

APC msg 96,

Not yet...

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
02/01/2011 01:58

msg 102 ...supply of arms ....................ha ha ha .............arms to iraq no that was "farming" equipment ......american aid to the taliban .........ha ha ha ..........who trained that naughty Bin chappy .???

birdman



Joined: 20/09/2010
Posts: 690

Message Posted:
02/01/2011 08:19

Denny

any answer to post 95 yet or are you still procrastinating? ( LMAO)

basil


Joined: 10/04/2009
Posts: 168

Message Posted:
02/01/2011 11:14

For those who struggle with the link in message 104, and for GC trolls:

Mr Sandys words, from ten years before the Turkish Intervention.



(Minutes of a meeting between the UK Prime Minister Douglas-Home and the US Attorney General at Chequers on Sunday January 26th 1964:

The Commonwealth Secretary (The Rt Hon Duncan Sandys MP) described the Cyprus situation



Mr Sandys said that British forces had gone into Cyprus because they were the closest fire brigade available.



If they had not done so, there would probably have been a massacre of the Turkish Cypriots

AnthonySmith


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
02/01/2011 11:52

Basil, I fear you are wasting your words on trolls, my friend.

Those who spout propaganda, not history. Hide behind half truths and misinformation. Try to play the big man with tactics we used in primary school.

I have friends who are Irish, from North and South, but I remember the fear of cold, wet nights in Belfast as a teenager. Were the 'terrorists" there wrong? Yes, by the letter of the law they were.

And what about Eoka? By internationally accepted laws they were wrong, too.

The July 15 coup went against international law. The events from December 21, 1963 went against internationally accepted law, too, but the GCs twisted and manipulated events. One rule for one, another for everybody else. That's the way they still want it. No peace until they get everything back and more.

Turkey acted in accordance with the guarantees, Greece didn't, but the GC bleating means the wider world forgets the wrongs they did, or those of Greece.

brother



Joined: 29/01/2010
Posts: 446

Message Posted:
02/01/2011 16:36

I was born in Cyprus and have lived in the UK since the age of 12. My parents were bilingual in Greek and Turkish.

I know how bad the troubles were. During one shoot-out between the two communities, I was tucked into the bath with my siblings whilst my mum cowered over us as bullets burst through our front door and along the corridor.



I might be unique but I'm really hopeful that I'm not because I do not hate the Greek speaking Cypriots.

I think that the worst crime has been the waste of a generation through such perpetuated hatred. Is it really the case that the majority of the Greek speaking Cypriots want to destroy their Turkish speaking countrymen?



I was amazed to read recently that that The Greeak and Turkish specking Cypriots are closer to each other genetically than they are to the people in Greece or Turkey.



If only people could have seen the benefit of cooperating - If only the children were left to decide for themselves.

What choice do they have now but pa

brother



Joined: 29/01/2010
Posts: 446

Message Posted:
02/01/2011 16:37

...What choice do they have now but partition?

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
02/01/2011 17:14

"Is it really the case that the majority of the Greek speaking Cypriots want to destroy their Turkish speaking countrymen? "



No not the majority, that is what is so sad but enough of a minority, much as it was years ago.

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
02/01/2011 19:01

agree pugwash , its time to put this minority in an enclave and the rest of us live happily ever afer. and im not joking

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
02/01/2011 19:09

Wells said tracer.

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
02/01/2011 22:25

Round and round in circles.



TRNC is still free and will stay that way.

CyprusChill


Joined: 08/05/2009
Posts: 666

Message Posted:
02/01/2011 23:25

To mark the 50th anniversary of the ending of the Cyprus Emergency, The British Memorial was unveiled on Remembrance Day, November 8 2009, in the Old British Cemetery, Kyrenia. On it are inscribed the names of the 371 British servicemen — 28 members of the Royal Navy and Royal Marines, 274 British Army, and 69 Royal Air Force — who died in Cyprus on active service 1955-1959.

LEST WE FORGET

'You have our full moral support'

— The Royal British Legion



TRNC Remains at peace and free.

Denny


Joined: 09/12/2010
Posts: 261

Message Posted:
02/01/2011 23:44

Msg 109,

"I remember the fear of cold, wet nights in Belfast as a teenager."

I was like that when I stayed out too late as well.

Denny


Joined: 09/12/2010
Posts: 261

Message Posted:
02/01/2011 23:46

brother Msg 110,

"Is it really the case that the majority of the Greek speaking Cypriots want to destroy their Turkish speaking countrymen?"

No. And only a complete fool would suggest otherwise.

basil


Joined: 10/04/2009
Posts: 168

Message Posted:
02/01/2011 23:51

Message 118, of course not - it didn't work well when they tried that ... did it?



All they want is 130% of the land area of Cyprus, all the property, all the rights to any undersea deposits, all the mineral rights, sovereign bases out, ... and all the current occupants of TRNC to up and leave.



So, that's alright then.

birdman



Joined: 20/09/2010
Posts: 690

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 00:26

Denny

You STILL haven't answered any of my questios ? You have lost credence on this post as well as other posts I notice you have contributed to. ( shame really as occasionally you do have some arguable points.)

Are my questions too difficult for you? Should I repeat them in single phrased words ?

Even if you do not answer the questions, explain WHY you will NOT answer them?

Evasion to answer directly normally tells the questioner you are hiding something? Unlike tracer, who is in my opinion a MORON, you appear to have some intelligence but you are too devious for your own comfort and swathe you words in subterfuge and deceit to try and baffle those you consider less intelligent than yourself

AnthonySmith


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 07:01

Birdman, Denny's start has gone somewhat downhill on all counts. He appears to be following Tracer about to tut tut at Turkey and absolve the GCs of any sins. Another narrow-minded troll who hasn't come clean, or tried to answer the shortcomings in his posts. A wikipedia keyboard warrior who should be left to his own devices imho.

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 08:42

anhtony" absolve the GCs of any sins"

You are so wrong about this .

but after all i am a moron what can i understand about all this.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 09:24

When has it ever needed a majority? The Nazis weren't a majority in 1930's Germany but they still had aspirations to eradicate Jews and Gypsies. It started with the poisoning of minds.



The majority only have to sit back and let it happen.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 12:24

msg123...Quite right Groucho, Hitler said "The bigger the "Lie" the more people will believe it"



By the way Edward 1st of England Expelled ALL Jews in 1290, they were not formally allowed to return until 1656.......

Denny


Joined: 09/12/2010
Posts: 261

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 12:58

Msg 124,

And we don't have to look far to witness the gullibility of those whose utter lack of insight into the mindset and objectives of former enemies marks them out as having probably been pretty useless servicemen.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 13:17

Denny... please tell us why your 'riposte' had to include an insult? Why do you feel the need to make insulting personal remarks? Is it because you argument does not hold water? No don't answer that one.



MartnD41



I bet he (Edward) missed the odd one.... but expelling is not quite the same as gassing... is it?

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 13:23

"not formally allowed to return until 1656......."



Blimey... that's nearly 5 O'clock!

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 13:48

Mess 124



The bigger the "Lie" the more people will believe it"



That particular quote is usually attributed to Joseph Goebbels, however there is doubt that he ever actually said it, he did say many crazy things though



AH did say something similar in Mien Kampf but it was more long winded and rambling.

Denny


Joined: 09/12/2010
Posts: 261

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 14:03

Groucho,

I'll take your post seriously when you apply a fair and unbiased attitude to those who have made personal insults on this thread. Unless courage only comes with ganging up, perhaps.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 14:25

Denny please indicate when I've ever 'ganged-up' with anyone on here.

basil


Joined: 10/04/2009
Posts: 168

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 14:34

Message 129;

Hark at the pot calling the kettle! Perhaps when you stop 'ganging up' with apc and tracer to bring a quite twisted and anti-turkish pov to this forum, the problem will go away.

Oh, and what would any of you three know about a 'fair and unbiased attitude'?

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 14:42

when a t/c tells you ....this ...........



I'm awaiting for the day of peace

.....aggreement,where you'd all have to pay compensation to so called 'original' land owners,which is why none of you wants an aggreement and giving all the large ones about how bad EU is,despite the fact that all or most of you are quick enough to jump in your cars to go to south/so called EU part of the island for all your needs inc. flights. (Sahani)



maybe you should listen .........???

Denny


Joined: 09/12/2010
Posts: 261

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 14:44

Tricky one, that.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 14:45

This thread is now closed. Reason: Thread went off topic.