"Ungrateful 'TRNC' ? "- say Mr Erdogan

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
06/02/2011 12:26

I see the CY Mail has posted this article..



"Erdogan lambast[e]s ‘ungrateful’ north"



This is in connection with austerity measures...



http://www.cyprus-mail.com/cyprus/erdogan-lambasts-ungrateful-north/20110205

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
06/02/2011 13:24

Like I said before, if he is unhappy, he can take a running jump.

Zoots


Joined: 05/02/2011
Posts: 669

Message Posted:
06/02/2011 13:26

I suppose you can imagine how the TR taxpayers must feel about Cyprus when they see this on the telly.

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
06/02/2011 13:33

Perhaps it is the beginning of the end. The taxpayers of Turkey have finally woken up.



But rather than worry about 400 odd million Turkey spends in Cyprus for which she gets plenty back, surely they should concern themselves with 12 Billion they spend in Kurdistan, to keep the Kurds from Kurdling.

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
06/02/2011 13:39

Yfred...."for which she gets plenty back"



Serious question....what does the TRNC give back to Turkey that would justify that level of expenditure?



Or are you claiming that TCs are superior and deserve to receive twice as much as their "second class citizen" cousins on the mainland ?

doggiesteve


Joined: 06/10/2010
Posts: 265

Message Posted:
06/02/2011 13:46

as is oft said on here if they do not like it here then GET OUT

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
06/02/2011 13:50

We buy plenty from Turkey and we are not allowed to export there. But besides that, the bases alone for security are worth the expenditure, never mind the natural resources that are about to be discovered which she will claim via the Turkish Cypriots.

If Turkey did not have positive gain in Cyprus she would not be here. She is not stupid.



Go on Mr Erdo, I dare you to pack your bags an leave us ungrateful bunch to our destiny.



Here is a wonderful song I dedicate to my friend Erodogan and all their help they have given us in all the years. They were so good to us that half the TC population felt it was too good and had to leave to poorer parts of the world like UK.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy-3eDTyabo



Edo the Merdo. What is amazing is the end of the link contains Tyabo, I wonder if it was deliberate.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
06/02/2011 13:58

RE msg 2, YFred: (...) Like I said before, if he is unhappy, he can take a running jump. (...)

▶ Yeah - you mean after Turkey has paid the thirteenth month in TRNC?

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
06/02/2011 13:58

YFred..msg 7..."and had to leave to poorer parts of the world like UK. "



Are you serious?

Is that gratitude for the countries that took you in?



I'm so sorry that you have had to slum it in London for so many years !

Magbs


Joined: 26/02/2009
Posts: 278

Message Posted:
06/02/2011 14:12

Re msg 9



Cronos, where is your British homour? Don't take YFred's words out of context, it was sarcasm.

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
06/02/2011 14:13

Listen chaps, you must get used to my sense of humour otherwise you will not understand what I am saying. There is irony and sarcasm to take into consideration.



If I moved to a poorer part of the world, clearly I would have moved to Turkey which I did not.

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
06/02/2011 14:15

Magbs, I think the expats have lost their sense of humour. Even the ungrateful have more sense of humour.

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
06/02/2011 14:18

Dutch, since when have you become the advocate of just tearing up a contract when ever you feel like it. These people have signed a contract which is binding in any court of law. But due to the lack of the latter, one has no other alternative but to air one's views on the streets and the fora.



You got a problem with that?

TinLondon


Joined: 20/07/2009
Posts: 171

Message Posted:
06/02/2011 14:18

YFred... You're a prime example of ungratefulness, Do you really think there would be a NC without Turkey and as for "poorer parts of the world like the UK"... Coming from a NC background, I still wouldn't swap London for any other city on the world!



If Turkey was to pull all their funding... I give the NCs 1 week before they start running to the Greeks for food. Its dangerous to say that you don't need Turkey in the North, without them you simply wouldn't exist!

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
06/02/2011 14:18

If I thought you were joking I would have laughed.

You weren't.

I didn't.

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
06/02/2011 14:21

YFred....msg 13



Let me get this right....you are arguing about the validity of contracts within the TRNC ?



Now I know you are joking....well done...very funny !

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
06/02/2011 14:30

Tin, so how did we survive whilst under British rule. Surely the Turks were not there then? Have you heard of the canary in the golden cage that refused to sing? Turkey gave us security but took our freedom. As many TCs moved out of Cyprus under Turkish control as did under RoC. So if you are going to compare, there has not been any improvement by the Turks being there. In fact the deterioration has speeded up. I am not ungrateful, I am just not ready to be suppressed by some illiterate towel head. Nor is most of my friends in Cyprus.

Quite a few of my relatives were at that march and regularly take part in multi-cultural events across Cyprus with my friendly cousins in the south, not those fascist with dubious parentage.

Dengtash went to see Inonu to ask for the Turks to come and save them. He advised him to negotiate wand live well with his neighbours because by all means he Turks can come and save them but he asked "Who will save you from the Turks. What a visionary?

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
06/02/2011 14:31

Cronos, somebody has to make a stand. Right? It seems the courts are no good, so it has to be won on the streets, right?

Zoots


Joined: 05/02/2011
Posts: 669

Message Posted:
06/02/2011 14:40

Msg 17,



Great explanatory post. A cylindrical delivery may be needed to force the message home. ;)

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
06/02/2011 14:40

that,s twice now erdogan has been upset ,or are we just picking up from newlad.









musin



long live the kktc

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
06/02/2011 14:41

Cronos, I never had any problem enforcing contract in TRNC. Because I use local people who know speak the language adn by that I don't mean just words. If I tried it myself, they would eat me alive as soon as they hear me talk with me London accented like you know what I mean.

You have to change your name too. Why do you think I changed my name to Fred in London. With foreign names, you are a sitting duck to the criminals. They now they can run rings around you.

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
06/02/2011 14:44

Zoots my friend the cylindrical posts are exclusively reserved for my fascist cousins south of the border. Now, that is only because I know they enjoy it so much.

They actually read all my posts here and even post them over there too. I should do them for copyrights.

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
06/02/2011 14:50

YFred...msg 17



"I am just not ready to be suppressed by some illiterate towel head"



I think that tells me all I need to know about your attitude to Turkey and the Turks !



But as someone else mentioned on a similar thread, is this the attitude of the majority of grass roots TCs who live and work in the TRNC, or are these attitudes reserved for the more "educated" such as yourself who protest from afar?

Magbs


Joined: 26/02/2009
Posts: 278

Message Posted:
06/02/2011 15:00

I tend to agree with Yfred on that.

Turkey needs NC at least the same as NC needs Turkey.

Renting military bases and use of joint military and civil infractructure costs fortune. For example just to keep a single air base open US pays Kyrgyzstan about $180 million.

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
06/02/2011 15:03

Magbs....no-one is questioning the strategic and geographical importance of Cyprus and its bases.



But why should this involve paying public sector workers in the TRNC twice as much money for fewer hours and for 13 months a year ?

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
06/02/2011 15:07

mmmmmm.....msg 1



I see you've lit the blue touch paper and stood well back again !

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
06/02/2011 15:49

He must have been bloody drunk when he made such a stupid statement! I think power is slowly getting to his had!

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
06/02/2011 16:00

I remember going through a military base to get to the old village, with the "Bu Memleket Bizim" on a green Cyprus shaped dangly bit in the car. The Turkish soldiers gave us such looks about our rebellion. And no it is not reserved for those afar, it is very local I can assure you. It is a matter of having some political understanding. May I suggest you spend some time in the CTP kahves in Lurucina or Akdogan and speak with some of the shepherds there as well as the educated people, you may find it enlightening.

Education has nothing to do with it

kavenkoy


Joined: 10/04/2008
Posts: 1787

Message Posted:
06/02/2011 16:37

i appreciate where yfred is coming from ,its being patriotic ,not ungratefulness



you see i have a similar style with uk,its my country and im english...we can have banter and call north v south etc but dont get some foreigner come over and slag it off...thats where we all would say if you dont like it here then go f..k off back ,wouldnt we?



as for turkey ,how much do they take back in gambling taxes ,if anything?



kav



we all love trnc ...right ?

inigo


Joined: 23/10/2010
Posts: 50

Message Posted:
06/02/2011 17:13

Yfred, do you have any word about the sky-high salaries or very limited working hours or excess of employees at public sector?

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
06/02/2011 19:22

msg 30;



Turkey has been pumping the money in order to keep the Cypriots quite because of all embargoes(?),weather it'd be Turkey itself,RoC or the rest of the world with the intention of 'little Turkey'.37 years on,no success.



Turkey has been pumping mainland turks here since 1974 to the point that they multiple us by 4-5 now,whom work here and send all their earnings to 'home' after leaving enough to buy some bread and onion whilst living in buildings and pay NO tax.



At least half of civil workers are 'settlers',whom when came over has been given homes to live in,land and animals to farm.Not to forget to0 mention that they are also selling these at extortuos prices and taking it out of the island 'just in case'.



Big hotels and casinos are owned by mainland turks whom are loundring millins back to Turkey.



........and the list goes on..............



They started this,they should either carry on or finnish it.

We didn't ask them to invade us but to help us.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
06/02/2011 20:10

A cynic might say North Cyprus is, as has been said, in reality, a very, very important (and thus cheap at twice the cost) military defense base for Turkey. Why else would they station so many troops there? It's nothing to do with the threat from the south. That's now out of the political question.

The 'rent' goes towards the basic infra structure to keep the north running (and thus the army establishments). The tourism, hotels and casinos help to maintain the facade with the bonus of the income for the chosen few. The thirteenth pay day is just an example of the strategy for keeping the locals happy and inline. Turkey is merely rattling the NC economic cage to satisfy those political opinion formers in Turkey who complain about the cost (which in the great scheme of things to Turkey is negligible).

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
06/02/2011 20:35

Inigo, those people who get these jobs tend to be mostly UBP members, and it was the price Turkey paid to get UBP's support. Turkey should have thought about all this before plonking Dengtash on us for 30 years. The reason so many people get retired early is the 30 year rule. Any time spent as Mucahid in fighting counts as treble. This was all done with Turkey's encouragement to sweeten the pain that Turkey has caused on us. It's a bit like a pregnant woman, changing her mind after 6 months about having the baby. Too late my friend she has to go through with it.

You should never ask me to say one word, just can't be done I am afraid.



Cronos, she has to pay just the same as she pays her civil servants in London, London wages. The living conditions are not the same in Cyprus as in Turkey. In Turkey everything is cheaper. You don't have to be an economist to work it out.

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
06/02/2011 20:46

Yfred....msg 33



I'm not an economist but neither are you by the sounds of it.



Are you saying that the civil servants in the TRNC deserve wages in line with those of London because the cost of living is comparable?



If civil servants in London get the same deal regarding working hours,holidays,pension rights, 13 month salaries etc etc as those in the TRNC then I'll update my CV and move to London myself !

brother



Joined: 29/01/2010
Posts: 446

Message Posted:
06/02/2011 21:20

I have only just read the article as provided by mmm (too many mm's ).



Very disappointing to read this as it shows the "them and us" perspective I have mentioned before.



Yes, I bow to the martyrs who have their lives so that my parent's safety was guaranteed. However I think it is a great shame that Turkey thinks the only way to help Cypriot Turks is to pay the wages of the key workers.

I m not aware of any leadership shown towards helping the economy develop - even with the international restrictions on direct trade. A pity that the only prospering economic activity encouraged is related to "basic needs" such as casinos and "dance" clubs...



If Turkey thinks the TC community are ungrateful then she needs to set out how it has been trying to improve things since 1974.

gusanova


Joined: 23/11/2010
Posts: 187

Message Posted:
06/02/2011 22:12

Perhaps Turkey might now realise that there is something really wrong with a country that they support so much and do something about it.

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
06/02/2011 22:30

msg 36;



"......they support so much......2



Perhaps you meant 'USE' so much!!

brother



Joined: 29/01/2010
Posts: 446

Message Posted:
06/02/2011 22:36

msg 36: What do you know about TRNC? Are you a TC?

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
06/02/2011 23:16

Cronos, no I did not mean that at all. The only country the 13th wage is paid is in Cyprus. So hence they have to pay it, just as they pay London wages in London?



I have been accused of many things in my life but never an E-Conomist.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
07/02/2011 00:14

re msg 26 Cronos



I've been out all day and just got back..



Folks often quote the CY Mail about things 'rump' RoC and my 'non-supporters' will know I'm acquainted with some TCs who still believe that the RoC is their govt. (!) and have always said "be careful what you wish for" re Turkey..



They have never had a sizeable 'say' in things in the 'north' but they might well have been right ... ?

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
07/02/2011 00:16

mmmmmm......my tongue in cheek remark was not a criticism, just an observation !

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
07/02/2011 00:17

(cont)



Anyone remember the "This Country is Ours" rallies.. ?



"Bu Memleket Bizimdir"....

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
07/02/2011 01:08

It all boils down to what I said many moons ago in another post! All the participants in this thread who are in favour of the line of thought "TCs should not be ungrateful... what about all those who died to save you... etc." better have a very good think, and express whether UK and Europe should be flooded by USA soldiers, have their economy dictated and run for them by the Americans, Even consider being Federal parts of a much bigger USA. BECAUSE thousands of American soldiers died to save their asses, and had it not been for them and the financial/material help of the USA, the whole map of Europe could well have been quite a different one today, with everyone probably shouting "Heil Hitler"!

And how would any European would now feel, if they were addressed as ungrateful adapted lot ("bastards" as implied by Erdoğan) - by an American president, everytime there was an anti-American demonstration in Hyde Park? Now think again and then tell us how we should also react...

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
07/02/2011 01:22

Hi Big 'Oz



As I live with a Russian .. I can assure you that we would not have been speaking German, now...



The writing was on the wall for the third reich ( deliberate small letters!) when Hilter over-extended himself in the Soviet Union and 'concentrated ' on capturing 'Stalingrad' [ Volgograd] was it's name before and after the Soviet times...



For SURE the American helped... but didn't we go to war to protect Poland ? ..



Did the Americans stay behind in some of the countries they 'liberated' and make the official language theirs and move their own in - to the extend that they outnumber the locals - who they came to 'protect' ...?



Your analogy is not a good one, sorry..

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
07/02/2011 01:47

Well, mmmmmm; Here is something that featured in one of the top selling mainland Turkish papers, by a well respected critic Engin Ardıç:

"Kıbrıs'tan çekilmemizin zamanı geliyor...



Hiçkimsenin söylemeye cesaret edemediği şeyi söyleyeyim: Aslında birbirimize çok fazla da bayılmayız.

Aynı şeyin Yunanlılar ve Kıbrıslı Rumlar için de karşılıklı olarak geçerli olduğunu anladığım gün dehşete kapılmıştım. Atina'da bir gün, seksenli yıllar... Rumlar toplanmış bizim elçiliğin önünde gösteri yapıyorlar, Yunanlı sevgilimle bizim de oradan geçeceğimiz tutmuş (ilk eşimden yeni ayrılmışım, ikinci eşimle henüz tanışmamışım, kelebekler kadar özgürüm, felekten birkaç yıl çalıyorum!)...

Kız bana yekten dedi ki, "bunlar için mi birbirimizi öldüreceğ

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
07/02/2011 01:50

Biz Kıbrıslı soydaşımızı değil, "orayı ele geçirmiş olmayı" sevdik!

Oraya barış götürdük, güvence sağladık falan, numaradır... Osmanlı'nın torunları olan bizler, üç yüz yıldır ilk kez "toprak almış olmayı" sevdik. (Hatay'ı saymıyorum, Hatay için tek kurşun atmadık.)

Kurtardık gözüyle bakmadık, "aldık" gözüyle baktık hep. Kıbrıs, büyüklük kompleksimizle atbaşı giden aşağılık kompleksimizi bastırmamızı sağlamıştı. Sokaktaki adamın yürüyüşü değişmişti.

Daha sonra bazı bürokratlarımız da "Rumlar'ın kaçıp boşalttıkları villaları" sevdiler tabii, zamlı maaşı sevdiler. Tatilcilerimiz de ucuz battaniye, tencere tava sevdiler. Fiyatı beğenmeyen kenar mahalle karı

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
07/02/2011 01:52

Fiyatı beğenmeyen kenar mahalle karısı "keşke sizi kurtarmasaydık" demek terbiyesizliğini de gösterdi Kıbrıslı Türk esnafa. Otuz yedi yıldır birbirimize eziyet ediyoruz.

Bütün hastalıklarımızı (enflasyon, uyuşturucu, kırtasiyecilik, nüfus fazlası) oraya ihraç ettik. Biz de onların sırtında kambur olduk, onlar da bizim sırtımızda...

Artık bizi istemiyorlar. Güneyle "bütünleşmelerini" ve Avrupa Birliği'ne girmelerini önlüyoruz... Geri kalmalarına yol açıyoruz. Eh, onlar da bizim Avrupa Birliği'ne girmemizi önleyen önemli "faktörlerden" biridir. Oluk oluk para akıtıyoruz, bize "muhtaç olmaktan" hazzetmiyorlar. Vatanın anası da yavrusu da kendi kanatlarıyla uçmak istiyor artık. (cont)

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
07/02/2011 01:55

Bize "defol" pankartı açtılar, durmayalım. Başbakanımıza "sen kim oluyorsun" diye posta koyuyorlar, yüzümüz yere bakmasın, gidelim.

Orası vatan parçası mıdır? Öyleyse niçin Misak-ı Milli sınırları içinde gösterilmemiştir? (Sözkosunu sınırların içinde yer alan Musul ve Kerkük'ten niçin kolayca vazgeçtiniz?) İçinde her Türk bulunan bölgeyi vatan sayacaksak, niçin Bulgaristan'a saldırmıyoruz? Kıbrıs'tan çekilmemizi bürokrasi istemiyor, bir de kumarbazlar istemiyorlar (basında da üç beş faşist)... Bunların dışında kimsenin umurunda değildir artık Kıbrıs. Herkesin derdi kendine yetiyor.

Bu işi tadında bırakalım diyecektim ama tadı çoktan kaçtı. Çekilelim, hem Kıbrıslı Türk rahatlasın, hem Anadolulu Türk.

Korkmayın, artık ne bir EOKA örgütü kurulur, ne bir A

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
07/02/2011 02:04

It is too late for me to translate the content, but if no other TC in this forum has done it by then, I shall do the honours tomorrrow sometime.

As for the analogy - you are entitled to your opinion and I would respect that - but I am more than willing to prove my point in another thread (since it would be going way beyond the main issue in this thread and would require calling many historic witnesses in the form of "facts" relating to second world war).

For this thread, lets say the TCs are absolutely right in their feelings towards current mainland Turkish politics and the comments of Mr Erdoğan. The above extract shows that they are not alone in their thoughts either. As I said, translation to follow tomorrow - good night for now

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
07/02/2011 10:19

Hi Big Oz.. I'm just pooping in.. as I just KNEW this might 'run and run' ;)



No time to translate,now.. so if you could.. I'll check back later tonight.

brother



Joined: 29/01/2010
Posts: 446

Message Posted:
07/02/2011 11:18

My understanding of Turkish in Msg.45:

The time to withdraw from Cyprus is getting nearer.

Let's state the thing that nobody has the courage to state: In reality we're not overwhelmed that much by each other (bayilma: to faint).

I have now accepted that the same thing has been deemed by the mainland Greek and Cypriot Greek community as being overdue.

One day in the 80s, the Greeks demonstrated in front of our embassy,

I was passing there with my Greek girlfriend (?) (I was recently parted from my first partner, Recently met my second partner, free as a butterfly, I am borrowing/stealing a few years from destiny!)...

The girl said to me, "are we going to kill each other all because of this"



Sorry for any inaccuracies but it's been a long time

inigo


Joined: 23/10/2010
Posts: 50

Message Posted:
07/02/2011 11:30

Why some blame fully Turkey about the problems caused by 1974?

TCs are the ones who wants a definete seperate country not again a reunion with GCs

TCs are the ones who insist for Turkey's intervention

TC needs population to balance with greeks polulation just incase of future

Mainlanders could not be such happy to change their homeland as TCs did not want a solution at 1974 to move to an island at Agean Sea.



Besides,people should not forget that

ROC still prevents Turkey EU negotiations.

Moreover Turkey does not accept any prerequisite for TRNC

Turkey always pump money to TRNC even Turkey had big financial problems

Nobody is upset about the money going to TRNC for several years as middle age mainlanders remember how TC suffer before 1974

After 36 years,now somebody come up with an idea to tell Turkey go back to home.Is it fair enough?



Or am I totally wrong

brother



Joined: 29/01/2010
Posts: 446

Message Posted:
07/02/2011 11:40

My understanding of Turkish in Msg.46:



It's not that we loved the idea of being related to Cypriots, but the capturing the place (ele gecirmis: to grab, to take in hand)

We brought peace there, provided assurance etc. we the Osman descendants, loved the idea of gaining new lands for the first time in 300 years.



(Hatay'ı saymıyorum, Hatay için tek kurşun atmadık.)

(I'm not considering Hatay (Antakya), we didn't fire a single bullet for Hatay.)



We never looked at it through the eyes of "we saved you", instead we looked at it as " we took it", Cyprus, helped us get over our inferiority/insignificance complex.

(I haven't been able to translate "büyüklük kompleksimizle atbaşı" just the "aşağılık kompleksimizi bastırmamızı sağlamıştı")



The average man on the street started walking differently.

Afterwards, some of our bureaucrats loved the abandoned Greek Cypriot villas and the fat salarie

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
07/02/2011 11:45

Later on our burocrats loved the empty GC villas and inflated wages. Just like a whore that does not like the price, we hit them with I wish we never saved you. For 37 years we have been torturing each other. We gave them our worst illnesses: Inflation, organised crime and population explosion. We became their hump and they became ours.

They no longer want us. We are blocking their unification with the south and joining the EU. They are also a main factor in blocking our entry to the EU. We throw lots of money at them and they cannot stomach the fact that the depend on us. Both the mother land and baby land wish to fly with their own wings.

They put up Get lost placards for us, and say who do you think you are to our leader. If it is ours, why is it not shown within our borders? Why have you not taken Mesul and Kirkuk, if we are going to include bits of each country that has Turks in it, why have we not attacked Bulgaria?

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
07/02/2011 11:46

cont.

The Burocrats do not wish us to pull out of Cyprus and the Gamblers. Outside of these groups nobody cares. Each have their own problems.

We should leave this place tastefully I was going to say, but the taste has long gone. We should leave so Turkish Cypriots and the Anatolian Turks can feel relieved. Don’t worry, there is no eoka anymore .





Soory it will have to do. You gist of it. First time it has been said openly.

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
07/02/2011 11:48

ohps, this should have been first.



We must say what nobody dares to say. In all honesty we don’t love each other. The same thing happened between Greeks And Greek Cypriots. I was walking past the Turkish Consulate where some Greeks Cypriots were demonstrating. My Girlfriend said, are these the people we were going to kill each other for.

We did not love saving the TCs we loved capturing the land. We gave them peace and security is just pretend. As sons of Ottomons we loved conquering for the first time in 300 years. Hatay does not count, we did not fire a single bullet for that.

We did not see them as the saved, we see them as captured. Gave us a superiority complex to supress our inferiority complex.

brother



Joined: 29/01/2010
Posts: 446

Message Posted:
07/02/2011 12:03

Sorry yFred - no intention of clashing translations - I will leave the rest to you.



My understanding of Turkish in Msg.47:



A corner street woman who didn't like the price showed her rudeness by saying "I wish we never saved you" to the Cypriot Turkish producers.



We have been tormenting each other for 37 years.



We have exported all our ills to there (inflasion, drugs, red tape, overpopulation). We have become a drain on them (a hump on their back) and them on us...



They don't want us anymore. We are blocking their merging with the South and entry into the EU... we are causing their lack of development.

Eh, they are one of the factors in the delay on our entry into th EU.

We are pouring money into the place, "muhtaç olmaktan" hazzetmiyorlar (no idea what this means)

The mother country and the child country wants to fly using its own wings afterall.

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
07/02/2011 12:40

YFred & brother; Thank you for a great job - no need for me to translate anything further. I think it is a very good explanation of the status quo, we the TCs are facing at the moment, and should make it clear to any third parties who might have the apetite to address/interperet TC behaviour wrongly.

mmmmmm; This does not have to "run and run" because the above translations of what a mainland Turkish critic in a reputable Turkish paper says, reflects the feelings of many learned people both there and here. That being the case, the mis-interpretations by whom ever does not relly matter - P.M. Erdoğan went too far and got carried away onthis occasion which brought out a lot of worms from under the carpet. In fact I am very happy he acted so foolishly, this may still have a positive effect on the development of a real TRNC, or a self governed Federal state of Cyprus.

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
07/02/2011 12:58

mmmmmm;

As for my analogy, I am a little confused by your post but to put it mildly, you have actually helped prove my point by bringing Russia into the equations. Forgetting of the preceeding Russian anti-semitism, and their tratment of ethnic populations within the USSR, my next question to you would be:

Millions of Russians had died fighting against the Germans to help save many Eastern European countries, as well ass many Turkic Nations further East. Do you agree with or approve of the fact that, they actually stayed in all those countries as OCCUPIERS, supporting oppressive regimes and exploiting their natural resources or borders to the full, to the advantage of Mother Russia and her economic/political interests, for the next 45-50 years?



If you believe that was not acceptable then I rest my case... If you think the going rate for saving someone is to overtake and oppress - then I see no point for further discussion of this subject

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
07/02/2011 13:24

Erdogan has stated that Turkey has strategic interests in Cyprus. Is he willing to pay a high price to keep NC on side? The Turks are throwing money at the Kurds to try and contain their resentment. Could they do the same in NC. Turkey might have to buy their obedience (we may all have our price)



I think YFred made a good point on another thread. If Turkey pulls out, militarily and financially then the TC's will have to stand on their own two feet. The EU would be forced to finance the TC's (unless sharing power with the GC's is a condition), to provide council and the embargo's would have to be lifted. The ROC could feel justified to take land back, Turkey could not be expected to intervene again but pressure from the EU would make an attack unlikely.

I guess the TC's would have to give land back to GC's as they would not be able to pay the IPC costs.

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
07/02/2011 13:33

If the TCs are to give back the land currently occupied/controlled by the military, that would probably compensate for most of the excess percentage of land currently under TRNC control.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
07/02/2011 14:16

msge 61



To keep it neat and tidy, presumably land will have to be given back at the borders. I am assuming that you will want to keep the port at Famagusta (mind you it might be hard to negotiate this without the power of Turkey behind you) and have to give up Guzelyert and perhaps Nicosia?



I think most Brits would be concerned that many TC's would not be able to go from being a civil servant to being an entrepeneur. This would be my concern, but I do think there are more of an entrepeneurial spirit on the island than most of us Brits give you credit for. (obviously Brits have been victims of this)

Obviously the Judicial system is a scam, but so is the GC system and the EU puts up with it.

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
07/02/2011 14:55

There is no reason on earth why we cannot allow some Greek Cypriots to return to their properties so long as we use the 14 year formula used by the ECHR when deciding whether one gets restitution or compensation or both.

Certainly we will have to give about 10%, but even if Varosha is part of the southern state, the Efkaf lands ownership is ours.

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
08/02/2011 08:42

My dear Yfred always logical and fair .

have you thought that will happened if we throw our leaders in a room and lock them up with the 60s constitution and with out any foreign interference ?

because my believe is that the solution is there in front of us . this is the only way we can safeguard our needs and help each other.

mind the priest /elam /''eoka''/ and all the dickheads around here they dont have any control in this country.

we the people can only decide for our future.

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
08/02/2011 11:34

Tracer, as my college friend Andonis used to say, give us a week and we can solve the Cyprus problem between us to both sides satisfaction.

Same goes to you too. If a person understands the background to the real problem and is mindful of the others fears and sufferings, there is not a problem that cannot be solved.



But I am hopeful that years of trying to convince Turkey of the merits of the solution to the Cyprus problem, I do believe that the Turks have finally got it. Shame Talat is not at the negotiating table right now. I also hope that Eroglu can be persuaded to go for a deal and not be allowed to use certain elements in Turkey and block the peace process.

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
08/02/2011 13:03

Yfred

We sure made many mistakes. They have all been amply documented. But the biggest of all was to pursue Enosis without first addressing the concerns of an 18% strong community which for sure would have felt very uneasy becoming a minority in Greece.

what do you thing same fault twice ? from me not a chance we have an 18% and an 80% CYPRIOTS WERE IS THE PROBLEM TO MAKE IT AN 98% CYPRIOTS . If we can decide that we can manage "enclave" the dickheads.

Zoots


Joined: 05/02/2011
Posts: 669

Message Posted:
08/02/2011 13:09

Msg 29



you see i have a similar style with uk,its my country and im english...we can have banter and call north v south etc but dont get some foreigner come over and slag it off...thats where we all would say if you dont like it here then go f..k off back ,wouldnt we



Not neccessarily, IMHO. Outside analysis is sometimes the only way to get to the heart of the matter, esp when ppl are blinded to the facts by being too caught up in things.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
08/02/2011 15:53

If you gave money to a friend and asked him to use it wisely and he squandered it on the highlife and told you to F...!!! off, would you offer more.

And what's this about 10,000 ingrates being half the TC population?

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
08/02/2011 16:04

msg 68



This friend wasn't helping you out with good faith troodo his eyes was for your wife(cyprus) .

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
08/02/2011 16:05

If your friend had asked you to put him/her up for a while and the while became .........,and in all this while they had been telling everyone thats their 'home',would you put up with it?

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
08/02/2011 16:08

Are you people in the south helping us out Trace, and as fo r good faith ......

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
08/02/2011 16:27

My opinion troodo if we dont ..........we must start ASP .CAUSE WE SHOULD NOT MISS THIS TRAIN .

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
08/02/2011 17:08

Fortunately or unfortunately, Trace, 10,000 is at best only an eighth of the TC population, and many are already distancing themselves from the controversy, so I do not think the train will leave the station. The sad thing is that the GC's will try and use the situation for their own advantage. If this type of demonstration happened in the south and a few had banners saying, for instance, recognise the TRNC, they would instantly be called traitors and puppets of Turkey -.so the merry-go-round goes on and on.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
08/02/2011 17:41

I've been reading the thoughts of some Turks ( who have lived in Cy) and TCs and THEY reckon that Mr Erdogan MIGHT just be 'rocking the boat' for the UBP...

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
08/02/2011 17:46

quote:

If this type of demonstration happened in the south and a few had banners saying, for instance, recognise the TRNC, they would instantly be called traitors and puppets of Turkey .



and erdogan now saying the opposite (puppets of ROC).



Now come and say that our actions force you in the arms of turkey with out your will (and i believe that)

now is the time to come back and shake hands ( kaçırmayacaksın Herhangi bir parmak)