The Actual 13-Bullet Letter

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
15/02/2011 08:50

Lets have some opinions on that !



SUGGESTED MEASURES FOR FACILITATING THE SMOOTH FUNCTIONING OF THE STATE AND FOR THE REMOVAL OF CERTAIN CAUSES OF INTER- COMMUNAL FRICTION (1963)



http://alturl.com/o3um8

basil


Joined: 10/04/2009
Posts: 168

Message Posted:
15/02/2011 09:34

It all fits in rather nicely with the Akritas Plan, don't you think?



A. METHOD TO BE USED OUTSIDE



In the closing stages of the (EOKA) struggle, the Cyprus problem had been presented to the world public opinion and to diplomatic circles as a demand of the people of Cyprus to exercise the right of self-determination. But the question of Turkish minority had been introduced in circumstances that are known, inter-communal clashes had taken place and it had been tried to make it accepted that it was impossible for the two communities to live together under a united administration. Finally the problem was solved, in the eyes of many international circles, by the London and Zurich Agreements, which were shown as solving the problem following negotiations and agreements between the contending parties.



(a) Consequently our first aim has been to create the impression in the international field that the Cyprus problem has not been solved and that it has to be reviewed.

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
15/02/2011 10:39

I do not understand the question ans the relevance to point #13, which follows:



Point 13. The Greek Communal Chamber to be abolished



The Constitution provides that there shall be two Communal Chambers, one Greek and one Turkish, each having jurisdiction in matters of religion, education, cultural affairs and personal status over members of its respective community, as well as control over communal co-operative societies.



This provision appears to have its origin in the concept that the Republic ought not to interfere with religious, educational, cultural and other cognate matters the administration of which should be regarded as a safeguarded right in the case of the minority.



When this concept was extended to the Greek majority the result was to place the entire education of the country outside the sphere of Government economic and social policies and to create financial problems and other difficulties for the Communal Chambers, reflecting adversely on the State. With a vi

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
15/02/2011 10:55

cont,

With a view to minimizing these difficulties the Communal Chambers should be abolished and a new system should be devised providing for their substitution by appropriate authorities and institutions.



Should the Turkish community, however, desire to retain its Chamber, in the new system, such a course is open to it.

basil


Joined: 10/04/2009
Posts: 168

Message Posted:
15/02/2011 15:45

You fail to see the relevance? How very convenient.



'to create the impression in the international field that the Cyprus problem has not been solved and that it has to be reviewed. ' (Akritas)



'With a view to minimizing these difficulties the Communal Chambers should be abolished and a new system should be devised providing for their substitution by appropriate authorities and institutions.' (Makarios' 13 points - the number thirteen being unlucky for Turkish Cypriots)



If tracer can't see the connection, there may be some blinkers in the way.



Having negotiated and agreed at London and Zurich, the creators of the Akritas Plan plotted to gain not just a bigger slice, but the whole cake, with the tacit support of the GC community

(and any GC who didn't agree was liable to get a bullet in the back of head one dark night from those brave EOKA heroes ...)



The GC negotiators agreed and signed the original Constitution, then went home to rip up those parts which didn't suit th

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
16/02/2011 11:46

THIS WOULD BE MY ANSWER:

Let us read how the US Library of Congress understood the events: http://countrystudies.us/cyprus/53.htm

Why the fascination with the Akritas plan? Is there any proof that Makarios himself was promoting it? Makarios sure had to deal with an overwhelming desire for the union of the island with Greece. The fact that the people (overwhelming majority of 82%!) could not decide it was the result of foreign intervention and conflicting interests. Not that it was the most sensible choice. It is like saying that ethnic Turks in Turkey must get the approval of the Kurdish minority if they wish to be part of the UME, the United Middle East. I wonder whether Turks would ask Kurds' opinion or offer them a veto.Ah, yes, 1960! gCypriots signed it

. You would too if you had a gun on your forehead. Anyone who does not see the injustice of 1960 and the separatist interpretations by tCypriots of all its provisions during the first three years must be a hypocrite at the very le

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
16/02/2011 11:47

its provisions during the first three years must be a hypocrite at the very least.



1963 is an ideal basis for discussion. It addresses all those clauses that helped inflame gCypriot sense of injustice & promoted division rather than unity. Else, I sincerely believe gCypriots must take their chances with the impending annexation. In my opinion, tCypriots will be the immediate losers & the Turks the medium-term losers. The latter have not realized that as the EU gets tighter the island to their south is a giant (strategic part thereof) in the making.



Last about point#13, amongst others it says "Should the Turkish community, however, desire to retain its Chamber, in the new system, such a course is open to it." So what is the problem?

basil


Joined: 10/04/2009
Posts: 168

Message Posted:
16/02/2011 14:24

Although the 1960 Constitution was signed and agreed by the GC negotiating team and effectively ratified as Cyprus passed into independence, the Akritas Plan reveals a preplanned, sinister and despicable plot to use the principle of 'majority rule' to justify removal of human rights, property, lives and livelihoods from the minority TC population.



What was the problem? Although Makarios offered a 'chamber', he meant a chamber pot!

It was his policy and intent to over rule and dictate to the TC community at every turn; unilateral (GC) variation of the Constitution negated the entire independence process, making the current claim of 'RoC' to represent Cyprus at an international level questionable.



1963?

When the GC community intensified their pogrom and forced their neighbours out of their homes, shops and farms? Forced them to leave or live in refugee camps? (oh, of course they did all that of their own free will or because TMT made them ... yeah, of course)

Zoots


Joined: 05/02/2011
Posts: 669

Message Posted:
16/02/2011 18:14

Is the Akritas plan accepted as genuine or a forgery/counter-propaganda?

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
16/02/2011 18:19

"""he meant a chamber pot!""" ---

HOW on earth do you know? Did you ever sit down to discuss? Your assumptions are simply not accepted as fact by me.



"It was his policy and intent to over rule and dictate to the TC community at every turn ... negated the entire independence process, making the current claim of 'RoC' to represent Cyprus at an international level questionable."



WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? Last I checked RoC is pretty independent and a member of the EU. The problem is tCypriot leaders interpreted every aspect of the constitution with division in mind, e.g. separate municipalities, what the heck was that, if not taksimist?

"""When the GC community intensified their pogrom ..."THE G/C POGROM PRODUCED 400 T/C DEATHS AND 200 G/C ONES. SOME POGROM! PERHAPS THE WORD IS MORE SUITABLE TO THE 50.000 DEATHS IN TURKEY, WITH 45.000 KURDS DEAD. YOU RECKON?

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
16/02/2011 18:21

YOU HAVE NO ANSWER TO THE BELOW?

Last about point#13, amongst others it says "Should the Turkish community, however, desire to retain its Chamber, in the new system, such a course is open to it." So what is the problem?

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
16/02/2011 18:26

http://www.cyprus.gov.cy/portal/portal.nsf/0/C44572D7363776ACC2256EBD004F3BB3?OpenDocument

basil


Joined: 10/04/2009
Posts: 168

Message Posted:
16/02/2011 19:29

tracer: 'Your assumptions are simply not accepted as fact by me.'



You probably don't accept TRNC as fact either? Ferket mez.





tracer: 'YOU HAVE NO ANSWER TO THE BELOW?... Last about point#13, ... etc'



The answer was Chamber pot. Remember?



tracer: 'WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? ' [regarding the international status of 'RoC']



In November 1963, when Cyprus΄ first President Makarios put forward proposals for amendment of the Constitution in order to facilitate the smooth functioning of government, the Turkish side promptly rejected them, arguing that the Constitution could not be amended without the entire independence agreement being revoked.

That's a quote from your GC government link, by the way!



tracer: 'THE G/C POGROM PRODUCED 400 T/C DEATHS AND 200 G/C ONES.'



The numbers are dodgy, and absolutely disregard those who left Cyprus as a result of state sponsored GC looting, terrorism etc. You seek to justify GC atrocities citing current violence in Eastern Turk

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
16/02/2011 19:42

IN NO WAY BASIL i am the last person who want to justify gcs atrocities NO way.



"the Turkish side promptly rejected them"

The Turks rejected them not the tcs koutsuc was ready to discuss them



result of state sponsored GC looting.

I must send you to Martins Packard book Basil read it and come back again .

basil


Joined: 10/04/2009
Posts: 168

Message Posted:
16/02/2011 20:25

tracer;

The last part of my previous post 'Surely Not?' was clipped because I believed the dodgy character counter on this forum



Mainland Turks were not present when the TC side rejected unilateral GC changes to bits of Constitution which didn't suit Makarios. Here's the (one sided) link from the 'RoC' gov:

http://www.cyprus.gov.cy/portal/portal.nsf/All/556647A0AEB39CBFC2256EBD004F3C35?OpenDocument



I don't need Martin Packard to explain, as several of my neighbours were there - being dispossessed, terrorised and beaten.



The notion that this justified the same thing happening to GCs (who happened to live in the North before '74) cannot be upheld (it's as wrong as the belief that Kurds or whatever went on in Istanbul years before justified GC atrocity) ... but I can see why they don't lose any sleep over the plight of those GCs who were forced out, and don't give a damn about descendants who never lived in these parts and just want cash.

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
16/02/2011 21:00

BASIL

"as several of my neighbours were there - being dispossessed, terrorized and beaten."

i cant disagree with you on that i know what is been done .



and MP is not explaing in the book he just telling the truth for everything

check my post about MP and you will see that Iam not exempted no one.

and Iam not taking sides for anyone

They did what they did and their people paid the price and still paying

Its a must to find the golden section (which is not either enosis or taksim) ones and for all .