If you want/need to work in trnc then read this

doggiesteve


Joined: 06/10/2010
Posts: 265

Message Posted:
02/03/2011 13:21

in cyprus today this morning



http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5054/5491015859_2cb7a5372e_b.jpg



Imagine THE REACTION Turkish Cypriots in the uk being told this would apply to them .

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
02/03/2011 13:31

How many TC's will take on 'menial' jobs like gardening and cleaning. They prefer to wait for the government to create more civil service 'non jobs' which pay 5 times the salary that 'unskilled' jobs pay.



I can't imagine a clearer signal that 'foreigners' are not wanted here.



I am also amazed that the law to introduce this practice can be instigated within a couple of days whilst the government continues to procrastinate over the law changes required to protect property buyers.



The lunatics have well and truly taken over the asylum !!

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
02/03/2011 13:55

A third world mentality adds up to third world country. This is an insult to TC's, they are deprived of the right to prove they are the best for the job. Where is their self-respect, no wonder many are leaving.

negativenick


Joined: 10/11/2008
Posts: 6023

Message Posted:
02/03/2011 14:33

"bleedin fools the lot on 'em" - as my old uncle Percy would say.............



how can the TRNC expect to gain the respect of the rest of the world, when they take a stance like this............

Clarissa2


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 1476

Message Posted:
02/03/2011 14:35

Re : Msg1,



What about local brothels then?



Or are they considered to be highly-skilled jobs?



I wonder how the girls who work there are going to 'certify their qualifications'?

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
02/03/2011 14:40

I'm going up for the job of Chief Inspector of Brothels and believe me... they'll have to impress when I'm in charge...

tarry67


Joined: 16/05/2008
Posts: 1053

Message Posted:
02/03/2011 14:44

Its all a load of rubbish, just the lazy government making sure we know they are there. As already mentioned, how many TCs would go and work as a waiter, barman or lay bricks for example.......very few is the answer. I cant think of many TCs that are out of work unless they are claiming the giro at the same time..... LOL

lovinit


Joined: 20/06/2008
Posts: 745

Message Posted:
02/03/2011 15:01

How astute of you Mr Day, stating



“ I feel this decision will make some expats feel they are not wanted”



What on earth makes you think we are wanted !!!!!!!!, expats from any country not just the Brits, all they want from us here is our cash £ £ £ £



Good old money, same as the EU hand outs, they think they deserve everything for nothing. 13th wage/ money from Turkey, and what do they give back... sod all............

makes my blood boil.........

gates


Joined: 08/12/2008
Posts: 1096

Message Posted:
02/03/2011 15:19

if you come here to work you need a work permit it is the same world over if you move over to retire retire if you come to work then you must abide buy the rules and start a COMPANY OR BECOME EMPLOYED buy a legitamate company thats it same world over why come here knowing the rules to break them its as straight as that you dont need a degree or be the cleverest person in the world dont come here if you want to work without looking into it

Meerkat


Joined: 21/01/2011
Posts: 368

Message Posted:
02/03/2011 16:21

Re: Msg 5



Good question Clarissa2! I expect they will make an exception saying there is a need for this service.

Jefferson


Joined: 17/05/2010
Posts: 360

Message Posted:
02/03/2011 17:13

Message 9. Spot on gates.

doggiesteve


Joined: 06/10/2010
Posts: 265

Message Posted:
02/03/2011 17:15

gates .



what if you come to retire , yoyr partner dies then you need / want to to work ?



your circumstances change ? no where else in Europe would this be tolerated !



It is yet another example of the xenophobic policies oh successive trnc governments.



as for brothels I am sure they have O AND a levels if you are that way inclined they may even have s & m who knows !

Maz


Joined: 29/03/2009
Posts: 1924

Message Posted:
03/03/2011 00:16

But do brothels charge VAT, or is it zero rated? And what do the prostitutes do when they retire? Must they leave the island? And go where? Back home? What if they have no home but here? I agree with with message 12 that circumstances change.



But take a look at U.K in the 1950's when theyinvited over West Indians to do the work that the Brits could not or would not do, working on the railways etc. Their circumstances changed often, but they were not thrown out, and look what they produced - David Haye the boxer. So, there is nothing to say that the menial workers of today can't produce a hero of tomorrow. Short sighted !

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
03/03/2011 08:02

Gates



Re message 9



If you read the article you will see that the government are going to make it almost impossible for 'foreigners' to get work permits. This is not a question of working illegally, this is the government preventing 'foreigners' from working LEGALLY.



As for doing your research before coming here............this time last week these 'rules' were not in place, so no amount of research would help those who already live here !!

nostradamus


Joined: 15/04/2008
Posts: 557

Message Posted:
03/03/2011 08:06

The government here are constantly saying that various things are being done to align rules and regulations with the EU. Why, in that case, do they not make it possible for EU citizens to work without a permit?

Carndi


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 613

Message Posted:
03/03/2011 09:01

Groucho, please get in line. I applied for that job a few years ago when I spotted a brothel which had a

' 5 star ' rating.

Who goes round giving star ratings ?

I feel I am very qualified to be a success in that job BUT the good news is, at my age I would not last long.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
03/03/2011 09:10

The UK does not offer work permits for non skilled non EU citizens AT ALL.



The rules with regrads to non EU foreign skilled workers are very similar to those in the article quoted, must be advertised in the UK first etc etc. Even for skilled workers (in listed specific categories), where job has been advertised in UK first, the person has a job offer and sponsor from UK company, the applicant must 'score' enough points on the application and even then there are now caps on total numbers given pemits under such schemes even if you do meet all the rquirments.



http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/workingintheuk/

Turbo


Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 833

Message Posted:
03/03/2011 09:12

On one hand the complaints about too many mainlanders , on the other hand, If it wasn't for them, who do you think would be doing the hard labour, the construction, the sweeping of the streets etc..

TC's are too proud, show offs and also of have a lazy nature.. Too worried about what the neighbours or family would say about them cleaning streets.



TC's ,You cant have your cake and eat it too..get the lazy civil servants to work and do their jobs right.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
03/03/2011 09:30

For info, UK does not offer work permits for unskilled, non EU, workers at all.



For skilled workers , where job has been advertised in the UK , the applicant has a job offer from sponsoring company, has meet the 'points' requirment on their application there is still an anual total limit of 20,700 such places for year 2011/12 (unless you will earn more than 150,000 sterming per year that is).



If the TRNC were to apply a similar limit on applications in same ratio to its (offical) popultion this would equate to about 90 people a year by my calculations. And that would be for SKILLED workers, with a job offer, where job pervious advertised in UK. For unskilled workers, if the TRNC follwed the UK policy on non EU citizens then they would issue 0 work permits for unskilled workers.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
03/03/2011 11:22

Yes Erolz but for EU citizens in the UK it's a level playing field. Whoever wants the job can apply and the employer chooses whomever they feel is best suited.

What do they think will happen in the TRNC if and when theses rules are enforced?

Will the black economy grow as a result? Yes!

Will that in turn lead inexorably to less revenue from taxes? Yes!

It's not joined-up thinking.... they don't seem to do impact analysis here. Just shoot from the hip.

Ah there's my foot, now, where is my gun... I can feel a self-inflicted wound coming...

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
03/03/2011 12:16

Groucho it is simply not 'fair' to compare how the UK treats EU nationals re work permits (not needed at all) with how the TRNC treats non citizens. The 'fair' comparission is how the UK treats foreign, non EU workers with how the TRNC treats foreign workers. The UK simply has no say on its own how it treats other EU nationals, only how it treats foreign workers.



The original poster implied that proposed TRNC rules in the article he quotes were somehow vastly different from how the UK behaves. I merely pointing out that this is just not true. The rules governing foreign workers in the UK are actualy MORE harsh and limiting than those in the TRNC is the simple truth. No work permits for unskilled labour at all. Restrictions on skilled labour far in excess of those the TRNC has or is proposing.



That is the reality I was pointing out. As to the 'sense' of either the TRNC rules or the UK ones I make comment.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
03/03/2011 12:21

and just to be clear there are many many things wrong in the TRNC



There are many problems with how foreigners are treated in the TRNC in regard to residency, work permits, setting up businesses and applying for citizenship.



What is NOT a problem is the proposals made in this article, which to me are perfectly sensible. No automoatic granting of permits to foreign workers for unskilled jobs, but a requirement to first try and fill the vacany with a citizen. Whats wrong with that ? For skilled work preferance should be given to nationals before foreign workers. What is wrong with that ?



What pisses me off is knee jerk reactions and the implied 'the UK is much better' to ANYTHING about foreigners in the TRNC regardless of the actual facts.



If people can understand what IS and what is NOT a problem then they are as too blame for the mess imo as those in power.

64Stuart



Joined: 26/07/2010
Posts: 33

Message Posted:
03/03/2011 21:52

Erol



Thank you for your rational thoughts here.



I find that many of the comments on the TRNC and its people on this web site are becoming increasingly offensive.

Jetski


Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 584

Message Posted:
03/03/2011 22:10

Things are no different here to the UK re work permits for foreigners. For a few years in the late 80's I was responsible for issuing work permits in the UK. Unless there were grounds of 'authenticity' or qualification none were authorised for so-called menial jobs (are any jobs menial?) if there were suitable unemployed in the local workforce.



The one thing that didn't need to be considered in the UK but is a huge problem here, is the general and permanent mallaisse of the local workforce!

poochops


Joined: 09/03/2008
Posts: 64

Message Posted:
03/03/2011 22:25

I've been reading this thread with interest and I'm largely in agreement with Erolz point of view however as far as understand any Cypriot can enter the uk as they please and go to work (possibly after a half hour of form filling to get an ni number) If I'm wrong then tell me to shut up, but otherwise the double standard does stick in the throat a bit.

It's a fair few years yet till we can come and reside in the TRNC but when we do in our early fifties then I would want to do some sort of work if only to stop my brain going mushy.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
03/03/2011 22:46

poochops - any cypriot with a republic of cyprus ID card and passport can enter the UK and work as they please, as they are EU citizens. That this is the case is not the choice of the UK government on its own but a requirment of EU membership.



I can understand why it feels like double standards but the situation is complicated. From a TC point of view, whilst we can gain benefits of EU citizenship outside of our own homeland (north cyprus) by applying for RoC documents, we can not gain full EU benefits within our own homeland. IF the TRNC were accepted as a legitimate government by the EU then you would have the same rights in the TRNC as a TC can have in the UK. However the TRNC is not recognised as such by the EU. So the source of the 'double standards' can be said to be the fault of the EU, rather than the TRNC itself, to some degree.

poochops


Joined: 09/03/2008
Posts: 64

Message Posted:
03/03/2011 23:38

Ah OK that stands up, but what was the situation prior to 2004? I'm just interested that's all by the way, I read somewhere that since the TRNC was declared in 1983 that over 100000 TCs had emigrated, a great many to the UK. If this is correct where they afforded special immigration status as a sort of continuation of post 74 policy? Or was the some sort of derogation as a result of Cyprus prior commonwealth status? I should read more I know, but Ive always believed Cypriots could enter the uk (and work) with relative ease.

Si

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
04/03/2011 04:39

poochops I can not speak with authority about the exact past immigration rules re cyprus and the UK, only the current one where I can look up the current rules. My best guess is that prior to the RoC entry to the EU the requirments on Cypriots gaining work permits for living and working in the UK were not dissimilar to those foreigners seeking work permits in the TRNC face. There may have been some advantages as a commonwealth country, I could not say for sure. I do recall a cousin of mine visiting the UK in early 80's and being detained in a UK immigration facility under threat of explusion because he was not deemed to have enough money on him to be let in under a toursit visa and my father having to goto the immigration facility and stand surety for him in order for him to visit us in the UK.



I think the main basis of cypriots being granted legal leave to live in the UK starts with those that left in the 50's to 60 when Cyprus was a british colony



[cont]

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
04/03/2011 04:45

From this base future cypriots have gained entry to the UK as dependants of british cypriot citizens and via marriage to british citizens, cypriot or otherwise, as the main routes I would guess. Again using rules that are not that disimillar to those in the TRNC.



Like I say I can not be 100% sure of the rules back then but my guess is for a Cypriot in say 1986, with no family in the UK already, seeking to live and work in the UK, would I suspect have been subject to similar rules re gainning a work permit to those in the TRNC and the proposals made in the original article. I am certainly not aware of any special means by which Cypriots in such a senario got preforential entry into the UK to either live or work or both.

negativenick


Joined: 10/11/2008
Posts: 6023

Message Posted:
04/03/2011 07:30

more fool us for moving here, thinking it was "real" Cyprus, when it isn't...



Maybe the property being half the price of the south should have sent alarm bells ringing............

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
04/03/2011 07:55

Erolz,

My problem is not with the trying to protect TC employment possibilities but with the lack of impact analysis that goes with it.

Do you think all the non-TRNC citizens will stop work and leave? I don't.

If they don't, do you think they will cease work? I don't.

I do think the black economy will grow, which is a bad thing isn't it?

Increasing the numbers working illegally increases illegality and that leads to possibilities of wider corruption and all the other bad things about an unregistered work force..

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
04/03/2011 13:53

negativenick if you really did buy property and move out to live in North Cyprus without any understanding of the histroy of the place, then indeed more fool you.



Groucho maybe then anyone should be automatically given a work permit without any restriction in any categories at all, then there would be no illeagal workers at all ? I am sorry but your argument seems suprious to me. At extremes you could say making the distribution and supply of herion illegal increases illegality and that leads to wider corruption and all the other bad things about a drug based criminal class, but that is not in my view a good enough argument to say therefore we should not legislate against such things at all.



You could also make the same argument about the UK's rules re immigration. The new cap on total numbers granted work permits under class 2 requirments will no doubt not cause a single current illegal worker to leave the UK either or cease work



[cont]

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
04/03/2011 14:02

These new UK rules will almost certainly lead to more people working illegaly in the UK as well, increasing the black economy there. So do you condem these new UK rules as well I wonder ?



What prompted me to post in this thread was the original posters implications that granting of work permits in the UK was somehow massively different to here or here under these proposals. That is not the case. In addition we have the fact that there are some very real and very serious problems re how foreigners are treated in the TRNC that we should validly be concerned with and this ill informed rant about these new proposals only diverted from these other real and serious issues imo.



Non granting of citizenship for example, or non granting of voting rights to long term residents at muncipal levels, or the punative rules regarding setting up businesses here as a foreigner. These are are all valid causes for concern and complaint. The propsals in original post are not imo.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
04/03/2011 18:36

"These new UK rules will almost certainly lead to more people working illegaly in the UK as well, increasing the black economy there. So do you condem these new UK rules as well I wonder ? "



Yes I do.

doggiesteve


Joined: 06/10/2010
Posts: 265

Message Posted:
04/03/2011 18:46

oh dear coz they do it in the uk that makes it ok in trnc.. yet another lame excuse for BLATANT RACISM

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
04/03/2011 19:07

doggiesteve if you think having restrictions on work permits for non nationals (or non EU citizens for those in the EU) is racist then every single country in the world is racist by your definition.



like I have said already there are very real and serious issues as to how foreigners are treated in the TRNC but the issue you raise in this thread is not one of them and by making out that a perfectly normal and resonable approach to foreign workers is 'blatant racism' you actually divert attention to those real issues.



By labeling a proposal that is normal by any comparative standards as 'blatant racism' you appear pretty foolish as far as I am concerned.

Zoots


Joined: 05/02/2011
Posts: 669

Message Posted:
04/03/2011 21:22

Msg 32,



"negativenick if you really did buy property and move out to live in North Cyprus without any understanding of the histroy of the place, then indeed more fool you."

I think this applies to hundreds if not thousands of UK-origin people who have now discovered the price they must pay for their extreme foolishness.