Homebuyers Pressure Group Meeting Thursday 7 April 3.30 pm

Bonner


Joined: 11/11/2008
Posts: 20

Message Posted:
04/04/2011 23:45

Please see Homebuyers Pressure Group Website. Meeting at Pia Bella on Thursday 7 April 3.3 pm.



http://www.hbpg-trnc.net/diary.html

Marion


Joined: 06/03/2011
Posts: 1816

Message Posted:
04/04/2011 23:51

Heard of it this morning, but can't go. some people seem to be under a misunderstanding to the purpose of the meeting. Could you clarify??? I know that most people read this page, so if you know something they don't, please state.

#do you know who will be there and what the form of the meeting is. I took a quick look at the page, but it is not quite clear. Thanks.

negativenick


Joined: 10/11/2008
Posts: 6023

Message Posted:
05/04/2011 06:10

"Marian Stokes of the Homebuyers Pressure Group will open the meeting with a brief outline of what can be achieved by everyone working together to help and support the government in running the country efficiently"





Marian is a lovely lady, but since the HBPG has been formed, the Government have done the square root of f*ck all to improve the house buying system and to help the poor Brits shafted by it.....





Apart from a "group hug" i cannot see any point in attending..........

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
05/04/2011 06:57

Marian is a lovely lady, but after the 'con' that was the Property Complaints Office, who really believes anything the Government says. Different Government same strategy, I really hope Marian is not being used by thes people, she has worked so hard, she deserves better.



So many property victims have been promised so much by successive Governments, look at the result of these promises, the rule of law being ignored, people having their vllas illegally taken, this is only the start.



Where will it end?

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
05/04/2011 08:35

the HBPG meeting is a call by Marian Stokes to "support the government." This is a repeat of the same call she made in 2006, the result of which was that the group changed from condemning government inaction against property abuses to "giving them a chance." Five years later we know what that change brought, typified by the "yok" response of builders who shrug their shoulders when you ask them for your deeds. Unfortunately HBPG is seen by the media as one of the few legitimate groups representing abused property purchasers and, as it rarely reflects the desperation of people like the about to be evicted Kulaksiz 5, it gives the impression that such people are a rare bunch of whingers. Have a read of the HBPG website and see what impression it is giving. In my opinion, it is one of a headless chicken when it comes to solving the problems that K5 residents are facing.

MotoMoto


Joined: 15/02/2009
Posts: 152

Message Posted:
05/04/2011 09:13

Extremely unfair responses



Marion ( and de facto the HBPG) has been extremely successful in working with a number of us Santa Fe purchasers to achieve the removal of mortgages and completion of sites



The key point is you have to work with people to achieve results - Dealing with this and the previous feckless government is only part of the problem



We should support Marion's selfless endeavours 100%

AnthonySmith


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
05/04/2011 09:16

Malsancak, didn't you have a falling out with Marian? Weren't you involved with HBPG? Sticking the knife in to someone who has done so much to help so many people is unbecoming.

What are you doing apart from ranting on this forum or on your supposed "newspaper"?

Marian puts her time, energy and not to forget her own money into helping people. If there were more people like this maybe the TRNC would be a better place and the expat community not so frustrating.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
05/04/2011 10:21

Motomoto, how much extra did you pay above the contracted price? Sure, Marian did negotiate with Sante Fe to reduce that extra and I accept that she had no other way of helping you. I guess you were lucky you had the money to spare, others don't, as you well know.

AnthonySmith, if you must respond to my post perhaps you'd like to redirect your mindless rants towards those who are currently ripping off property buyers here. By all means protect Marian from any criticism that comes her way but please have the decency to write things like, "no Malsancak, you're wrong, Marian is working hard to help the K5 victims about the be evicted." I can't see any evidence of that on the HBPG website or in the press.

john-f


Joined: 31/03/2011
Posts: 29

Message Posted:
05/04/2011 10:27

Marian has helped me in the past with a great deal of her time and knowhow! whilst we still have difficulties we are a lot further on because of her,



A Sun Villa owner

AnthonySmith


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
05/04/2011 10:28

Mindless? You must be looking in the mirror.

I don't need to twist words. You are doing that all by yourself.

You have an axe to grind. Keep on grinding, but other people should realise why you make your points. What are you doing to help the Kulaksiz 5 people by the way? Not a lot from what I can see, apart from hot air.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
05/04/2011 10:37

AnthonySmith, are you actually able to maintain a civilised discussion?

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
05/04/2011 10:41

as for whether I am helping K5, perhaps you should ask Pauline, one of the owners there, or are you going to insult her as well? Anyway, for the sake of those who want to discuss the theme of the original thread, i.e. the HBPG meeting, perhaps we should keep the posts on topic.

AnthonySmith


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
05/04/2011 10:43

You were the one who attacked Marian because of your own agenda.

Then you obviously couldn't maintain a civilised discussion with your jibe about "mindless rants". Pot, kettle, black.

I hope Marian gets a lot of support on Thursday.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
05/04/2011 11:07

AS, you are accusing me of attacking Marian because of my own agenda. Either back up this accusation or apologise.

flossie44


Joined: 05/03/2009
Posts: 223

Message Posted:
05/04/2011 11:25

Marion has been a brilliant support to us and ensured we worked as a group to get our deeds. Against all odds we did. I think that she is trying to hammer home that to move forward you must work together.



flossie

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
05/04/2011 11:33

flossie44, I think you are right about property purchasers working together, my only criticism of the approach suggested by HBPG is that their focus is not to pressurise the government into preventing people like those at K5 from being thrown out onto the streets.

Did you have to pay above the contracted price to get your deeds?

flossie44


Joined: 05/03/2009
Posts: 223

Message Posted:
05/04/2011 11:40

We had to pay a very small amount as the builder had gone bust and there was not enough money to pay his taxes.



flossie

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
05/04/2011 12:00

flossie44, that's not too bad then if you only had to pay his taxes. I'm surprised the builder didn't use the deeds to blackmail you, or their creditors didn't use the deeds to pay off his/her debts. How long ago was this?

flossie44


Joined: 05/03/2009
Posts: 223

Message Posted:
05/04/2011 14:22

Recently





flossie

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
05/04/2011 17:48

Unfortunately, unforseen 'domestic trivia' precluded me from attending; so, can anybody report on how this 'HBPG Meeting' went this arvo?

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
05/04/2011 17:51

Whoops - sorry for that - I got a bit past myself!



It's OK - I've just thumped my befuddled nut and bawled: 'It's on Thursday the 7th, ya drongo!'

negativenick


Joined: 10/11/2008
Posts: 6023

Message Posted:
05/04/2011 20:01

group hug anyone ??

johnerebus



Joined: 15/05/2009
Posts: 72

Message Posted:
05/04/2011 20:11

WHAT THE MEETING SHOULD BE ABOUT...

Along with 23 others we entered in to a contract and paid our money for our property in good faith in 2004. Hopefully when we visit this Easter our house will be "liveable". So 7 years and tens of extra thousands of £ssssss later we are fortunate compared to some who've lost everything.



"What can be achieved by everyone working together to help and support the government in running the country efficiently?" Well stop selling promises that turn to misery and financially ruin people with a radical overhaul of the residential property market and legal system to prevent people being swindled. NO DEEDS, NO MONEY. it's such a simple solution. It's staring us all in the face (the duped buyers, the developers and the TRNC Government) and I hope this is what the discussion focuses on. Oh how I'd love to be at the meeting!

negativenick


Joined: 10/11/2008
Posts: 6023

Message Posted:
05/04/2011 20:49

mess 23 - but no one is listening in the gov't old fella............



and they don't give a kipper's about the state of the country or the housing market or tourism for that matter....

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
06/04/2011 10:26

The 'Rich Club', who have already consolidated their wealth and who run this shambles, have made it abundantly clear that they couldn't 'give a tinker's cuss [or toss]' about anyone not part of their self-proclaimed 'elite'. As far as they are concerned, the current [by any civilised country's standards] lawlessness is lining their pockets very nicely and they obviously intend to 'sit tight' until disrupted by the 'Motherland', which herself seems equally unconcerned, despite all protestations to their embassy at the highest level.



What can yet another meeting achieve, apart from all the 'hot air' raising the room temperature?



The predictable and inevitable answer is 'SFA'!

littleme


Joined: 04/07/2009
Posts: 299

Message Posted:
06/04/2011 19:27

OK firstly I must say that answer is not to sit back & as always like many do nothing. As many of you know Geoff & myself have had more than our share of problems with a builder but I must say that Marian (HBPG) has always given us good sound advice & accurate information along with good strong support long before our arrest at the airport. I know that she has helped many people get deeds & helped with many problems with builds for people who would have had nothing, now if those people pay more to get what they need then that is down to them maybe it was just important enough to them not to suffer any longer & pay what price they had to for a settlement, Geoff & I can understand the reasons for doing so more than most.

We could all just wait & do nothing to see if the problems sort themselves out maybe we will still all be alive if or when they do or we could all join together & try to improve what we can or maybe we could just sit back & say “I do not have a problem

cont:

littleme


Joined: 04/07/2009
Posts: 299

Message Posted:
06/04/2011 19:27

so I wont go” Well lets hope you never get any. Things will never change if we do nothing to help each other.

FOR CRYING OUT LOUD LETS JUST STOP ALL THE SILLY BACK STABBING & TRY TO DO SOMETHING THAT MAY HELP.

If it does not help well we at least tried. Surely better than doing nothing.

What is so wrong with helping each other just because we can? Without the support of others we would not have got through our ordeal.

Mary & Geoff

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
06/04/2011 20:49

I thoroughly commend the sterling work pursued by the HBPG team; however, I fail to see how any number of meetings will alter the mindset of 'the powers that be' - it certainly hasn't in the nearly six years we've been here.



Unless every fraud victim unites as a group and initiates litigation at the ECHR, mutual commiseration seems to be the only outlet to our anger and frustration.



There was, or ever will be, nil compensation for those who were evicted from their properties in Spain, an EU member, when the municipalities bulldozed their 'concrete tents', so what hope is there in this pariah state?



What's more, is that 'the powers that be' know it and their blatant bigotry is unremitting!

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
06/04/2011 21:38

Well I never thought I would say this, but Pauline got herself arrested trying to HELP others and tell it like it is.



Marrion is a good woman and does all she can to help but without good will coming from the other side it is and will remain an uphill struggle. I do not believe this government will help the beleagured K5, I do not believe this government will help any property vcitim. A Government that allows what is happening here and does nothing is certainly not suddenly going to have an epiphany because the HBPG CALLS a meeting with a

dramatic title 'Blame or Support' It's Up to You. Can you not see, it is not up to us, it is Down to the Government to pull it's finger out and do something, it is not our FAULT the government has cocked up just about everything it touches. It is a Government out of touch with reality and if every ex pat here stepped up to the plate, we would all be let down. This is too little, too late. Littleme, I do have a problem, but I wont go,

cont

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
06/04/2011 21:47

I do respect and admire the work of the HBPG, I do. I wont go because like so many others I remember the Property Complaints Office, I remember the 11 letters I sent to the Minister of the Interior, I remember the Five Wise Men Committee, I remember the Commitee being set up of the Turkish Ambassadors to London, and Lefkosa, Ankara and Lord Maginnis, all these were going to solve the property problems, are they solved?



Fool me once, more fool you, fool me twice more fool me, fool me over and over and over and over. I do not think so. Trust this Government - not a hope in hell.

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
06/04/2011 23:25

The Government will do nothing without trying! the HBPG has tried but achieved nothing! Lord Maginnis has tried but achieve nothing! The Turkish Ambassador (so he says) has tried and achieved nothing! Victims have tried and achieved nothing!



"Blame or Support" Sorry but I have to " Blame " The Buck stops at the top! and the top is the Government, in any Country there is no-one higher (allegedly)! This Government have not listened to anyone! and even now closes it ears!



I respect no-one in the TRNC, they have fooled me far to many times!

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
07/04/2011 09:45

Until the current legislation, or lack of, is thoroughly overhauled and amended, 'Joe Public' can only assume that there is an insidiously deliberate intention to defraud on a massive scale, knowing there need be nil accountability, nor risk of retribution.



Is it feasible that the ongoing intransigence demonstrated can be categorised in the 'Reap what you sowed!' syndrome - i.e., that the UN and UK so renegued on their 'guarantor power' obligations, that the Turkish 'Intervention' became a dire necessity?



Put more simply: 'Is it payback time now?'



It is becoming increasingly evident that this could, conceivably, be the case.

gwhiz


Joined: 07/04/2011
Posts: 26

Message Posted:
07/04/2011 10:03

The Trnc government allow memorandums to be placed on the property you have fully paid for because until you get your deeds it remains the vendors , legally the vendor has no legal obligation to transfer prperty/land to the buyer,



by failing to address this the government are complicit in fraud theft and the ruination of peoples lives.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
07/04/2011 10:12

perhaps the government will call a meeting for us to attend called "It's our fault - we want to help you"? I must say that I'm a little peeved by the inference that WE the victims have to do all the work to get justice, with little response from the different governments over the last 6 years. WE appear to be the only ones to blame for the contract-busting scams we've suffered. HBPG are right about one thing, don't waste your energy blaming the government, but they are wrong, in my opinion, about asking you to waste your energy trying to work with them. There is only one thing that gets the government to sit up and take notice and that is effective international publicity. That's why they'll never let HBPG protest and that's why HBPG will never get them to sit up and take any notice, in my opinion.

MotoMoto


Joined: 15/02/2009
Posts: 152

Message Posted:
07/04/2011 11:32

Mess 5 - what are you on about malsancak!?



I negotiated 8,000 sterling off my contract price with SantFe because they were 10 months late on delivery. I have not got my Deeds yet because of a mortgage - however, it is being paid off by post dated cheques each month - frustrating but we are getting there



Marion and I and others have worked with SF to get other mortgages paid off and many people have got their Deeds and have not paid Builders taxes or anything else over and above contractually due

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
07/04/2011 12:06

MotoMoto, I personally think you should wait until you have the deeds in your name before you count the HBPG Santa Fe project as a success. At the moment, I believe, someone else other than yourself owns the property you are paying for. I'll admit that I don't know the full facts, mainly because they seem to be absent from HBPG's website and this leads to the possibility of misrepresenting the truth about what HBPG have actually achieved.

I'm confused about this £8,000 saving you made. Was that in the form of a cheque or are you just paying off less of the contract-busting mortgage put on your property without your permission?

I admit that paying off Santa Fe's mortgage is better than having the property auctioned but as I said at the time - are you a 100% sure about the deeds being safe. If so, how? I'm genuinely interested, though doubtful about this project, and whenever I ask questions people seem to go off on one. That makes me suspicious.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
07/04/2011 12:11

cont.../ Yes, so far, it has worked for Santa Fe, in SOME cases, but is this method of paying of mortgages limited in the number of cases it can be applied? It certainly cannot work in the Kulaksiz 5 case and there is a danger that builders will bump up the mortgage because they know they can go to HBPG and have them persuade the purchasers to pay it.

magicart


Joined: 05/10/2008
Posts: 985

Message Posted:
07/04/2011 12:22

Solicitors suporting and giving advice to the HBPG are often defending developers and builders that are causing the problems?



Hmmmmmmm.



Art

Earlybird


Joined: 28/04/2009
Posts: 816

Message Posted:
07/04/2011 14:19

So, it will all be sorted by tonight!

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
07/04/2011 14:59

To be able to work with the government you first have t get the government t talk to you. They are excellet at ignoring people, outstanding at putting their head in the sand and phenominal at telling you it is all your own fault.



They are the government, they must be right.

Marion


Joined: 06/03/2011
Posts: 1816

Message Posted:
07/04/2011 19:44

come on someone tell us what happened this afternoon. I couldn't go

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
07/04/2011 20:23

all the information about the meeting worth knowing will appear on the HBPG website

Marion


Joined: 06/03/2011
Posts: 1816

Message Posted:
07/04/2011 22:58

Yes, Mal,I appreciate that, but I would like to hear from the viewpoint of the attendees. Or am I just being impatient

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
08/04/2011 08:34

surely it is better to read the meeting minutes rather than leave people to spread rumours about what was said? I'm really talking from the standpoint of NCFP because we're waiting to write an article to tell our readers what was said and the timely release of minutes is therefore important to us.

gwhiz


Joined: 07/04/2011
Posts: 26

Message Posted:
08/04/2011 08:41

lawyers for K5 Have searching the globe and can find no case where a company has got away with what akfinans are doing.



In fact the laws state that they have acted illegally. Even under TRNC laws !



This have obviously been hidden. Akfinans have acted illegally.



First the mortgage could only be taken against land deeds,



All the houses built on the land has nothing to do with anything. Bank can move the houses elsewhere but they cannot take them over.



As we all said, the lawss that the bank should have checked the land for what might be on it.



Again as we all know 3 of the houses are in builders name and Turks are living in them, they should have been taken long ago.



Bob had a long list of about 10 different laws that the bank have broken under TRNC law and international laws.

It will be interesting to see what happens in court today.



have the court the balls to chuck out akfinans, or do they own so many of the judges and politicians. Whatever listen

gwhiz


Joined: 07/04/2011
Posts: 26

Message Posted:
08/04/2011 08:44

CONTINUED



listening to what Bob read out, which was issued by lawyers, ECHR would eat TRNC over this lot.



Interesting bit was Marian had an interpreter to read out what she was saying and then waht Bob read out with local TV camera filming it all. So last night or over week end everything said will be on air.

Marion


Joined: 06/03/2011
Posts: 1816

Message Posted:
08/04/2011 16:58

Thanks for putting me in the picture.

demoly


Joined: 12/01/2011
Posts: 45

Message Posted:
08/04/2011 20:31

cmon guys wake up its all a game with profits going to various TCs

Tango1


Joined: 19/02/2011
Posts: 1151

Message Posted:
08/04/2011 21:02

I was a very, very early member of the HBPG and I truly believed those years ago that the huge numbers that were joining that we could make a real difference. I am really pleased that there are members of this Board that are grateful for what the HBPG has done for them and that when all the buyers on a particular development have got together, a difference has been made. However, it has in 90% of cases cost them money, in some cases a great deal of money. Usually this money has been used to "bribe" builders into doing what they should have done in the first place i.e. give people what they paid for years ago i.e. the price the builder put in the contract signed in good faith by the purchaser.



What I have enormous doubts about re the present HBPG set up is the total capitulation to the Government, legal profession, builders & lawyers. To not criticise them is totally wrong, they should be criticised every which way both in this country and in the foreign press.



Tango1

demoly


Joined: 12/01/2011
Posts: 45

Message Posted:
08/04/2011 21:07

Dont be mean tango they did their best but failed to realise that certain TCs are laughing all the way to the bank. Just like the execs of RBS and Lloyds tsb.All backed up by the present day politicos who one day will be granted directorships of these building cos when they are voted out of office. Let the game continue...