The Internet and the fight for Freedom of Speech in the Middle East

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 08:37

One of the discussions I was listening to on BBC prime was about the use of Twitter and other forums in the fight for freedom of speech in the Middle East. It was heart breaking to see how oppressive regimes in places such as Egypt and Libya were doing everything they could to stop dissent spreading. You could see how without this ability to have open forums like Twitter, those in power could give the impression that everything was OK in those countries. Do members think that the TRNC government allows people in power to censor dissent?

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 08:56

how strange, I just opened this thread about abuse of Freedom of Speech having just posted in the thread opened by "misunderstood" saying that it should be closed because it breaks C44 rules. The post appeared for a few minutes and then the thread was closed by AJ who deleted my post at the same time. Good grief! Anyway, Freedom of Speech and the abuse by people in power.

One of the ways that Egypt and Libya became as they are is by people in power taking away Freedom of Speech quietly. This seems to have happened by government supporters throughout the country taking it upon themselves to censor any criticism. Over time, larger and larger abuses went unreported.

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 09:06

You are a mad bad boy Malcom - fancy being so outspoken. It really must have been bad to cause my thread to be closed. Shame on you.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 09:21

misunderstood, you misunderstand. I'm currently watching the David Frost debate on Aljazeera TV about the banning of the burka in France. I love the idea of being allowed to discuss even the most controversial topics as long as individuals are not insulted. Insulting institutions is a a different matter, e.g. in the south President Christofias is being criticised and his supporters argue that this is insulting the post of the President. All very confusing, eh?

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 09:27

It is interesting to read quite controversial comments being allowed by Moderator "No1Doyen" in his discussion in his “Turkish Cypriot discontent grows” thread. IMO this is an example of C44 at its best.

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 10:20

I too deplore the censorship in Egypt and Libya, two regimes that have been so oppressive. I personally feel that censorghip in whatever guise should be stamped out like the cancer that it is. If is allowed to continue, just like a cancer, it will invade every avenune of communication and effectiively neurtalise it. Healthy even sometimes heated discussion is to be encourgaged, respect for opposing poinbts of view essential. Threats, foul language and abuse, should not under any circumstance be tolerated.

BoTanica


Joined: 22/12/2009
Posts: 714

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 10:58

"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." (Attributed to Voltaire)

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 11:05

WikiLeaks has actually changed the way we view our RIGHT to know what governments are doing in our name. Well actually, not the governments themselves, unelected people who take it into their heads they are doing things which possibly even the elected members don't know about.

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 11:47

Botanica Preciseamant

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 12:02

Dont forget Russia and Chına. Chinese dissidents often end up somewhere in the ethers.



The big debate is whether freedom is our natural calling or whether autocracy, being directed, is more our natural state which the Chinese government strongly advocates. There belief is that freedom is just an ideology created by the West.



Let the debate begin.



On the same topic, has anyone watched the Samuel L Jackson film. I was genuinely shocked at what I saw. I watched it last night and I think Jackson is either very brave or mad to play the role he did. If you have watched it, how would you have acted in that situation if you were an American?

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 12:06

sorry the film was called 'Unthinkable'

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 12:47

I see butterfly 1 has 4 that is FOUR posted topics t on page 1 - how is that when I am allowed only 1 that is ONE. Thought we were all equal, or are some more equal than others??? I also lost all my stars thanks to a glich or was that gremlins in the works. See the sly t I popped in.



Yes I think China and Russia are two more good examples where freedom of speech is curtailed. I will look out for the film Unthinkable, Jackson is such a good actor.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 14:00

ilovecyprus, I did watch Unthinkable and the premise was that as part of torture of a terrorist could his innocent wife and child be tortured in order to discover the whereabouts of a nuclear device planted in the US. The stupidity of the whole idea was that the terrorist could have told the interrogators where the bomb was, save his wife and child, and still get the result he was after - not wanting to spoil the film.

The idea of autocracy is just the ultimate extension of freedom without responsibility to the human race. In the case of autocracy certain people have total freedom by preventing others from having freedom to control those who wish to abuse others. Human beings in their animal state are one of the worse abusers in the animal kingdom.

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
12/04/2011 06:53

I think we are lucky in the TRNC because although I know what we all write on here is moderated, sometimes a little harshly, and we all know that the government iss interested, by and large t is fairly uniterefered with.



Fancy living somewhere where everthing is controlled, that must be diffictult.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
12/04/2011 09:16

Freedom Of Speech is uninteresting until you let it slip away

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
12/04/2011 10:41

Ain't that the truth. It is usually the truth they fear.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
12/04/2011 11:11

all the property problems seem to have slipped away from C44's front page - must have been solved unless their presence has been AJusted?

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
12/04/2011 12:05

Mal

' must have been solved unless their presence has been AJusted?'



So what are you accusing me of now?

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
12/04/2011 13:33

Aj, I certainly wouldn't accuse you of anything you hadn't done, that would be libel. Mind you, as you asked, I am accusing you of applying discriminatory rules by saying that Pauline Read is only allowed one thread on a particular topic while other members such as bar-ten were opening three. You did ask, hope writing this won't get this thread closed by you or one of the other moderators.

MsGarnet


Joined: 04/01/2009
Posts: 989

Message Posted:
12/04/2011 15:58

malsancak - on Paxman last night, was a debate on the Burka ban; I so agree with one contributor who said, in effect, we (England) are too spineless to bring in a ban. CLEARLY the women who say they are happy to walk around like a black letter box, show how dangerous brainwashed human beings are, the vast majority of these women know if they don't hide themselves, the male members of their family, or roaming gangs of males dictating the paradigms of women, will attack them until they conform. The Qu'ran doesn't prescribe the Chador, Burqa, Niqab or any other subjugating cloth, it merely says women should be modestly covered (er - why)? oh well, the rationale being Moslem men are so weak and lacking control, a sight of female flesh would cause them to rape or abuse - and yet - sexual assault and rapes in Moslem countries FAR outweigh those in Western countries. The Moslem men I know, are no more weak or strong, than any other men on this planet, actions are down to individuals.....

MsGarnet


Joined: 04/01/2009
Posts: 989

Message Posted:
12/04/2011 16:01

It is my opinion that if someone comes to live in a country that has democracy and freedom of speech and movement, then they conform and assimilate to our way of living, and if they don't like it, or agree, THEY GO BACK AND LIVE IN A COUNTRY THAT IS STILL IN THE DARK AGES - they do NOT attempt to get us to live as they do. If I go and live in a Moslem country, I HAVE to obey their laws and way of living, or pay the price, it should be the same in reverse. I do wish I lived in a country that had some backbone........not holding my breath.......

Zoots


Joined: 05/02/2011
Posts: 669

Message Posted:
12/04/2011 23:17

msg 5 malsancak wrote :"It is interesting to read quite controversial comments being allowed by Moderator "No1Doyen" in his discussion in his “Turkish Cypriot discontent grows” thread. IMO this is an example of C44 at its best."

It takes balls to cut to the chase and say what needs to be said in this place and similar courage to allow these threads to develop. But this doesn't always happen on every NC forum, does it? ;)

Zoots


Joined: 05/02/2011
Posts: 669

Message Posted:
12/04/2011 23:23

Message 14 of 22 in Discussion



misunderstood wrote: "I think we are lucky in the TRNC because although I know what we all write on here is moderated, sometimes a little harshly, and we all know that the government iss interested, by and large t is fairly uniterefered with.

Fancy living somewhere where everthing is controlled, that must be diffictult."



Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be suggesting things in the TRNC are not controlled.

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
12/04/2011 23:39

Zoots (mess 23) in discussion



"Things" in the TRNC are very controlled! just like most "Things" on this board seem to be like exchange & mart and "Things" certain Moderators don't like, get either banned or closed! so no real discussion about "Things" that are important can be discussed!

Harold2555



Joined: 19/04/2008
Posts: 1139

Message Posted:
12/04/2011 23:53

Messages 19 & 20



Is there not a paradox in "liberating" a person by banning them from doing something?





H

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
13/04/2011 12:59

msge 13



malsancak, I enjoyed your post. You are right the film was full of irregularities, notably the one you mentioned, and the fact that Jackson played an 'emotionally aware psycho'' not likely in real life. Good old Hollywood ;-)



I felt that there was a key theme in the film, which related to your post, that is why I mentioned it. The terrorists resolve, his faith in Allah was too strong for the Wests indecisiveness. I think they were attempting to show that the West would not go to extreme measures, hence Jacksons reference to us being fearful and uncertain. I would add guilt ridden to his points.



The Chinese and Islamists are not burdened by doubt, nor are they fearful, Islam has Allah as its guide and the Chinese have their hormones fully tweaked, the adrenaline is pumping as they move in to ascendency. They also are not beleaguered by any guilt from previous misdemeanours.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
13/04/2011 13:00

The film showed the Wests democratic process can struggle in making decisions under pressure. In the end our bickering for inclusion ended in our downfall (although it would have happened anyway)

Again the Chinese have no problem in making decisions. There leaders are decisive and ruthless. Their growth is unprecedented.



I think Isiah Berling coined the term ‘positive liberty’ where people in the West are free to choose and express themselves. Choice and freedom are our maxims, yet we are floundering, large numbers of our people are unhappy and we are in debt. The gap between rich and poor in English speaking countries has never been so large. Perhaps autocracy and freedom are opposite end of the same pole. Push either of them to hard, to their extreme, then you have issues. It has been proven that we need to both conform and to rebel to live fully as human beings.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
13/04/2011 13:03

At the end of the day Malsancak, I agree with what you say, that autocracy is an extension of freedom, although I don’t fully see autocracy as an extension, I see autocracy as a path to our breed of freedom. If this is true then the Chinese will hit the rocks. The question is, would we have crumbled before that happens.



So although I advocate the principle of Wikileaks, I feel certain that Assange goal was to attack American Western policy. Fair enough' freedom of speech etc, but the world is not that open right now and we are extremely vulnerable.

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
13/04/2011 14:45

Zoots, I can play the 'devil's advcoate' along with the best of them. Do you think that getting a secret service policeman phoning Pauline is not meant to control and say 'hey watch your step because we have our eye on you'. Freedom is our God given right, God gave us free will, to believe or not to believe, why then should man

think he knows better than God.?



If people rebel against a system - is it possible there is something wrong with the system?