Isn't it about time that this stupidity stopped?

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
01/06/2011 09:51

Yet again we have another thread where false accusations have been made about a business in the TRNC.

It appears as though for every posting that denigrates a TRNC business there are a whole posse of members that want to follow up by putting the boot in. When it is proven that the allegations are unfounded they all slink back into their pits awaiting the next derogatory posting. Once all of this has happened the damage has been done regardless of any apologies (and there have been very few of those in evidence) that are subsequently made.

Is it not time that some of you out there stopped and sat down to think about what you are posting and whether your facts are correct before pressing the post button?

AnthonySmith


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
01/06/2011 10:29

Unfortunately, there are too many keyboard warriors out there, AJ, as you know from your time as a mod. Where did that get you? The land of grief. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. You're right, but some people just are not able to listen to reason.

puppylover



Joined: 05/05/2008
Posts: 1427

Message Posted:
01/06/2011 10:31

AJ



I totally agree with you.

Very easy to ruin a genuine business here.



As you say, if people bother to do a bit more research instead of making assumptions it would help.

If people did this in the UK they would be done for slander.

proger1



Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 2919

Message Posted:
01/06/2011 10:34

And I believe that you should also remember the friends network AJ, everytime someone has the chance to bring up or expand on a complaint about a business they also have the opportunity to recommend there friends establishments or at the very least cause more problems for the competitor to the friends business.



Just because a comment has no facts is obviously not a good enough reason for it not to be publicised

geronimo


Joined: 30/08/2009
Posts: 296

Message Posted:
01/06/2011 10:35

Too right, sadly there are too many people in this world who love to see people suffer, so they can commiserate and look good. Once a thread is closed would it not be a good idea to take it off the forum because invariably once "Closed" is put on a posting the viewings appear to increase 100 fold.

MsGarnet


Joined: 04/01/2009
Posts: 989

Message Posted:
01/06/2011 11:09

Lets us not forget though the thread by suehowlittle on behalf of her neighbours (she never responded, when asked, as to whether those neighbours asked her to destroy, on a public forum, the business in question or not) and yet 99% of the responses trashed her and her accusations, instead saying how pleased they were with the business and how they wouldn't hesitate to use it again. She was also proven to be mendacious on some of the things she said. The business in question, also posted on here, asking suehowlittle and her neighbours to go and meet them and discuss the matter - but as all bullies are cowards - they refused.....that said it all - empty vessels make most noise!

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
01/06/2011 11:37

Goodpost AJ, you see it so many times, "I understand" "A friend told me" "I heard that" It is perfectly ok to report facts once you know them but this part of the island seems to be alive with rumour, gossip and made up accusations.

clairegordon


Joined: 18/11/2010
Posts: 105

Message Posted:
01/06/2011 11:52

AJ a very sensible and well worded post, just a pity that the board owner allows this sort of thing to happen, my opinion is that it generates interest and thus revenue for the board owner because of the number of 'hits' the board gets as a consequence.

There was another thread recently by a business owner posting publically about another business owing him money, to me this was also shocking, and the business owner should follow the proper (if any) procedures, we do not know all the facts only what this person posted.

And of course there are things not allowed on this board aren't there mods ? it is OK to attack a business with impunity, but dare attack an individual, even though they are a proven liar !

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
01/06/2011 12:06

Pugwash....... Unfortunately,rumour,gossip and false accusations are the "saddest" part of the British culture..



They would do well to remember the wartime saying "Loose Lips Cost Lives"

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
01/06/2011 12:55

Claire gordon.



Could you expand more ? full story would help.

StGeorgeI


Joined: 27/08/2009
Posts: 973

Message Posted:
01/06/2011 13:00

Good post AJ - some people really don't know the damage they are doing, to good hard working people, by writing their views on here without knowing the full facts.



People need to stop and think!



G

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
01/06/2011 13:52

they are even giving the window cleaner a kicking on another thread shame on them .

tomsteel


Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 482

Message Posted:
01/06/2011 17:56

Without changing the thrust of the debate: - msg 3, I think a written falsehood about a person constitutes 'libel'. Slander is supposedly an oral/spoken false statement. No doubt a legal guru will comment further if necessary. That said, moderators could/should execute their option of deleting defamatory statements concerning local business concerns if, in their opinion, they are 'off course".

AnthonySmith


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
01/06/2011 18:14

You are right Tomsteel. Libel is for written and published, slander for spoken. But when mods have stopped threads, some people have claimed the right to free speech. They seem to forget that free speech comes with responsibilities.

If there were people serious enough to do it, this board and other forums could be closed and sued for lots of money. It's the "publisher" and the person behind the statement that are at risk. At least, it was when I took law some years ago.

There is a particular phenemonen on this forum that certain clicks believe everyone has to agree with them - and most follow idly like lambs. If you dare to disagree, you are, apparently, a troll, or an idiot. Or both

Scoty


Joined: 23/05/2010
Posts: 846

Message Posted:
01/06/2011 18:15

Msg 13 - one mod used to get involved - no longer a mod! Does that say anything?

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
01/06/2011 18:20

I like it....................................

hodgeliz


Joined: 16/10/2010
Posts: 278

Message Posted:
01/06/2011 19:43

Message 14 well said, I would advise message 10 to read and digest, or will I ressurect the closed thread where she swore on her daughters life and asked me to substantiate my statements as I subsequently did

Case rested.

Scoty


Joined: 23/05/2010
Posts: 846

Message Posted:
01/06/2011 19:47

msg 10 - please elaborate! Saw nothing wrong with the post you referred to!

proger1



Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 2919

Message Posted:
01/06/2011 19:50

hodgeliz, please don't do it on here if you are going to. Start another thread. It is very annoying when your thread gets closed because others hijack it regardless if it is for a good reason or not.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
01/06/2011 20:02

Paul

Well there you go. yet again members with their own agendas hijacking the thread.

There appears to be a lot of bitter and twisted members out there that only get gratification out of slagging off others. Mind you I could write a book about it having myself been slagged off on other boards/forums as well as this one.

Never mind I try try to rise above it all but it is just a shame that others cannot.

proger1



Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 2919

Message Posted:
01/06/2011 20:06

It was only upsetting to me because so many C44 members were being nice and welcoming me back when they could easily have done the opposite (I didn't actually write all the comments on my forum you know), I was wallowing in it and they went and started a war of words on my cloud 9, how inconsiderate is that

0maintenance


Joined: 22/09/2010
Posts: 2179

Message Posted:
01/06/2011 20:16

Message 8



The post you are refering to i thought was dreadful,a person comes on here virtually accusing or did accuse another business of oweing him money ect ect and people jump on the gravy train,as i posted in that said thread,i always thought there was 2 sides to a story.

Quite a few jumped on that thread and had there 2 penneth worth without knowing any facts and just the word of 1 person.



I do feel before long there will be a law suit issued to either the owners of a forum or some other,the writing is on the wall,Maybe the sooner it happens the better,@ least then some folk may well think before slaughtering some ones business.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
01/06/2011 20:17

Paul

I have never accused you of anything as I have always had the utmost respect for you.

It is just a shame that others do not have respect for their fellow men.

And this thread is starting to prove my concerns echoed in the title posting.

billybob


Joined: 29/03/2008
Posts: 576

Message Posted:
01/06/2011 20:37

AJ dont be two faced you and other mods were asked to stop it near on 3 years ago but didn't so dont come the holier than thou now

Scoty


Joined: 23/05/2010
Posts: 846

Message Posted:
01/06/2011 20:49

Msg 22 - I agree with what you say as to being allowed on a public forum and that sooner, rather than later, the owners of a forum (note the owners as they allow it ) will be prosecuted - not here before you all start. This forum is available world wide and therefore open to all countries laws.

Owners here need to pull in the reigns and forget about 'income' and seriously think about possible 'outgoings'

BTW - mods - you 'run' the show on behalf of the owner(s) - think about it!

billybob


Joined: 29/03/2008
Posts: 576

Message Posted:
01/06/2011 20:54

Message 21 Paul dont you get 2 carried away old son, there was only a dozen people welcomed u back and I was one of em, a very small percentage on 12500 (laughs) members me thinks

lol ;)

0maintenance


Joined: 22/09/2010
Posts: 2179

Message Posted:
01/06/2011 20:56

Billybob



That 12500 is maybe 4 or 5000 really as the rest id think are double or triple or quad or even more identities

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
01/06/2011 20:59

billybob

I would suggest that unless you know the facts and the way that the forum admin work then again you are another one making suppositions.

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
01/06/2011 21:03

if the membership is as stated above in msg26/27 , maybe here lies the problem , weed them out , ban them for life , you only need a double identity if you have something to hide ?

lionel


Joined: 21/04/2011
Posts: 179

Message Posted:
01/06/2011 21:51

OPEN FORUM??? i guess it will never cease ?

vonny


Joined: 25/06/2009
Posts: 476

Message Posted:
01/06/2011 21:58

very true,lionel,sadly it wont,because for some people,they get enjoyment out of it, They dont care who suffers for their lies,or their rumours ect, cos,hey! They are hiding safely behind their ps's

cypgab


Joined: 09/01/2010
Posts: 338

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 00:29

Hi AJ

I shake my head in disbelief. I put you down as one of the worst for your criticism of people and your smart mouth responses. You remind me of 'Nige' and how he justifies his actions.

Regards

Geoff

Zoots


Joined: 05/02/2011
Posts: 669

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 00:35

Good to hear from you again, Geoff.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 07:25

Geoff

Thank you for your personal assessment of my (perceived) qualities.

This thread is about posters.... No damn it, why should I explain as it is all in the the thread title and the first posting. To liken me to Nige is laughable and I am sure Nige would be upset that you have compared him to me. Just to keep on topic what are your thoughts on posters making unfounded accusations against TRNC businesses?

magicart


Joined: 05/10/2008
Posts: 985

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 08:38

AJ.



Great post and I fully agree!



I do however believe that the owner/organisers of this forum have a morale responsibilty to quickly close these type of threads and impose a life ban on the originator.



This type of action is long over due and would be in the best interests of the genuine forum posters.



Art

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 08:48

Morning Alsanjack and magicart - Better still - make everyone identify themselves properly.



This board may need a resident psychiatrist, a social worker, a policeman and an alcohol abuse advisor, but it definitley needs an owner who gives a damn about the TRNC and its businesses - someone who promotes the TRNC for all the right reasons, not just another TRNC citizen on the take (worthless generalisation)

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 09:06

Hi Art and Paul

It would be good if that happened but until there is a common consensus between forum admin and support from the board owner then forget it. I tried and failed miserably. But it may have been me that was in the wrong. Who knows?.

Anyway I will continue to use this board in the way that it was intended, bringing information about the TRNC to those that are interested. I will always support TRNC businesses because lets face it they have a hard enough time as it is without posters making unfounded accusations against them.

Rant over.

AJ

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 09:09

One of our cats has just had kittens and they had their eyes shut at the beginning

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 09:11

Paul

-------------------------------- -----------------------------

proger1



Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 2919

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 09:15

Good point Paul, this forum is in fact a commercial venture for the owner and as such, as long as it is producing hits on the interweb it is a working money making tool regarless of whether it affects other businesses in a good or a bad way.



In the owners defence though, you could hardly expect him to delete the 12000 non contributing or false members and still expect to have such a business tool.

I suppose at the end of the day, the only real control of what is put on here comes down to the individual poster and their moral standing and there is no way to enforce that.

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 09:40

Hi Paul, and AJ,.....having met both of you and normally, being a good judge of character, it doesn't at all surprise me that both of you properly identify yourself on this board.

You are both the 'type' of people that this board needs as members.

Earlier, I typed out one of my 'essays', but I decided not to post it, because with my posts, I seem to have the nack of creating more enemies than friends !

I will post a small part of it though:

"A lot of you should go to the oncology unit in Lefkosa and ask whether you can speak to some of the patients. Maybe then, you would realise just how important your time is and maybe, spend some of it making real friends, instead of spending too much time bickering on here !"

Paul

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 09:41

Dear AJ,



Ironically, I agree that making accusations about a business - any business - location irrelevant - needs to be truthful and not some sort of ploy to damage an honest one..

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 09:45

Here's something that Izzet won't want to see posted on this forum.

mmmmmm - are you at all interested in getting to know me and to perhaps consider helping me with a problem ?

I'm sincerely sorry for all the negative things that I have posted about you on this forum



Paul

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 10:02

Dear Washerman,



>>are you at all interested in getting to know me and to perhaps consider helping me with a problem ? <<



re msg 43 - certainly - when you're able to answer to be totally honest with me and the board members !



>>I'm sincerely sorry for all the negative things that I have posted about you on this forum <<



I'll accept that as a good start ...



Feel free to contact me, either publicly or off board.

proger1



Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 2919

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 10:17

mmmmmm,

I really thought you were better than that, why does there have to be stipulations when it comes to a peaceful gesture.



Granted, I haven't seen every post of anymosity between yourself and Paul however as far as I am aware, he has done nothing to damage your business whilst you have jumped on his every chance you had.I would have thought you could at least hold back on the occasion when he is just trying to prove a point.



Not trying to get in the middle here, just trying to point out that this thread will be a little corrupted if the battle starts again over what you think is right and want every member to know and what Paul is offering to potential customers.

You might lose some pride in that, Paul and his family could lose their livelyhood, is that fair.

0maintenance


Joined: 22/09/2010
Posts: 2179

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 10:24

mmmmmm



in message 43 it seems washerman was offering you a olive branch and maybe to put all this nonsense to bed once and for all.

You reply to be honest i find very condasending and patronising to say the least and also attaching conditions in your post,of course its possible 1 day for some thing to happen to OSN if people like you are constantly emailing OSN and telling them that people in cyprus are recieving there signal here and buying there package.



If i constantly emailed sky and complained about all the huge dishes here that people have got in there gardens only to be used to recieve sky from the UK,i suppose 1 day in the future they may do some thing about it.

Looking at your reply above maybe you can see why so many people have washermans service and not yours or any of your cronies systems.

To be perfectly honest IMHO i feel you have a hidden agender and only you knows what that is.



No need for a reply as your agenda is hidden.

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 10:28

mmmmmm, my apology stands, it was genuine and unconditional

Simhar


Joined: 18/05/2009
Posts: 227

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 10:50

Having seen and even taken part in some very lively conversations involving Washerman and MMMMMM I find these 2 posts from Washerman amazing.



Whatever the motive is behind the attempt at peacemaking an offer like this and an apology of this type is a very rare thing anywhere in the world, let alone on cyprus44.



I hope you find it in yourself to accept this offer mmmmmm.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 11:12

Pat

I think Mark has already fallen at the first hurdle.

But we will see.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 11:19

Simhar

Simon I apologize, I mistook your posting as being from Simbas.

But my comments still hold.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 11:42

To those who might TRY to understand.. and even those who'll stop to THINK....



I accept Washerman's apology concerning what he's said about ME - it wasn't true, and I APPRECIATE his apology. As yet I haven't had contact from him - but if he wants to - he can find me ;)



What *I* have said about his biz model - in relation to supplying Arab sat TV services was - and is -true and I have nothing TO 'apologise' FOR... I have merely asked him to be honest in the future - about the risks ( being cut off ) involved.



Anyone wishing to read more into that - or 'hidden agendas' - I suggest tuning into a good TV channel and finding some intrigue there, or a good novel from the fiction section ... [ continues drinking coffee and reading newspaper emoticon goes here ! ]

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 11:54

mmmmmm, I'm sorry that I have to correct you, but I apologised for saying "negative things" and not things that aren't true.



My business model is exactly the same as the Sky in Cyprus business model that you recommend.



Please, just leave things as they are.

Rottolover



Joined: 21/06/2009
Posts: 519

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 12:01

Hey sixems,



I think *I* know what you're TRYING to say here......<>.....but at the moment *I'd* have to adjudge it at about 40-30 Washerman.......

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 12:10

Dear Washerman



So you 'apology' wasn't genuine, then.. ?!



Please tell us about any 'murky past' / failed businesses I had HAD... ? I will be glad to put you straight and give honest answers - THEN you really can apologise !



Once again - I asked you this only a few days ago - ( perhaps that was the reason for your sudden 'apparent' turnaround ....?)





Re the 'SKY in Cyprus' biz I recommend... I do so, because that person really DOES know how to install dishes - ( ANYONE can install tiddlers) has the respect of sat installers all over the world as he knows how to problem solve .



As explained to you - recent legal opinion given by the Advocate General of the European Court of Justice states that EU citizens are doing nothing wrong buying a sat service from another *EU state*.. pointing out restrictive state by state ( with in the EU) Ts and Cs are not legal. A legal ruling on a specific case is expected soon.... I'm SURE you know that .

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 12:12

Hi Rotto



re msg 53



'Think' harder....



one of us is fibbing... one of us is happy to help when it is acknowledged

proger1



Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 2919

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 12:17

I am sorry Mark but this has to stop eventually and Washerman, Paul has started that possibility by offering an apology. You didn't merely ask anything, you stipulated the conditions that you would only accept an apology under your coditions.



That is just not fair Mark, either accept the apology, go your seperate ways and stop get entangled in an argument that will never get resolved or alternatively refuse to accept the apology and confirm what most people I know believe to be a case of you are just trying to cause personal trouble for Paul.

The way I see it, there is room for both of you to peddle your wears on this board (although you say you don't have any Mark) without having to tread on each others toes, the forum is supposed to help people not scare them away from even considering one system or another.

Please just make your statements and let people choose for themselves, isn't that a better business model.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 12:33

Proger



I KNOW you are trying to 'help'... BUT...



Please don't try to 'advise' - as your posts CLEARLY demonstrate you haven't appreciated the circumstances.. ;)



1/ I'm not 'pushing my wares' - in fact I'd have thought you'd realise I don't want expats to get ripped off, or to buy something that will possibly end up being useless - I don't personally benefit from advising folk to get a 1.8m dish or how to buy a system in an Arab state for far less.. The sat installer I recommend doesn't give me commissions - he DOES give leads ( outside 'TRNC') which I pass on to a friend in Limas(s)ol - I don't benefit!!







2/ Even I'm a little tired of folks - who might know better, by now - thinking I have an 'agenda'... those that have benefited from my advice often ask if they can post it here, and I ask them NOT to.. it used 'amuse' me to see certain posters posting patent nonsense !



Washerman was / is NOT being honest with his clients - nor about me..

0maintenance


Joined: 22/09/2010
Posts: 2179

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 12:38

6ms.



in message 54 you say.



(Re the 'SKY in Cyprus' biz I recommend... I do so, because that person really DOES know how to install dishes - ( ANYONE can install tiddlers) has the respect of sat installers all over the world as he knows how to problem solve )

But washerman only needs to fit tiddlers and not the great big stupid looking jordrell bank type dishes that blight our beautiful island and some times upset the people livin next door or across the road,them huge big tiddlers that you say your cronies are able to set up so wonderful and perfect are just 1 great big eye sore and cost a great deal of money,thats another perfect reason to go with washerman and his tiddlier size dishes which he sets up in alot less time than those huge ugly jordrell bank type dishes you so freely recomend to people to steal the sky service in cyprus when it just is not allowed by the rules of sky.

Again in msg54 you insinuate others cannot set up a dish correctly.

magicart


Joined: 05/10/2008
Posts: 985

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 12:39

Will the real 6ms stand up please.



I think he just has.



Hidden agenda and motives-thats why he won't accept Pauls apology without conditions.



He just wants this war of words to continue.



Well done Paul for offering a truce -shame 6ms doesn't want it.

kibrisvisitor


Joined: 28/05/2011
Posts: 98

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 12:49

Who appointed proger 1a mod ?? " I am sorry Mark but this has to stop " requesting various threads closed or is it a self appointed bobby ?

proger1



Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 2919

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 12:50

Mark,

You know I am not trying to start a dispute and yet you still try to tell me what I do and don't know.



There is no clear non appreciation in my posts.



I did take your advice and whilst I saved money on the system you advised me to get compared to Paul's offer, because I happened to be in a country that sold it for less and got through customs without them taking it from me and I was in that country because my company paid for my flights and hotel in that country.

Here is the kicker, I can't get it to work now because they recognised my IP address for a required reset and the only way I can get it fixed now is to go back to the same country and buy another sim card to pretend to be there and change that number with ADMC which would cost more.

I didn't complain about your advice because it was my choice to make it.

Had I went with Paul it would still be working because he would have sorted it.



Your agenda seems to be to destroy Paul's business.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 12:51

Zerochlor..Dave... re msg 58



Washerman has indeed - as have other 'installers' fitted tiddlers - dishes that are too small for Nilesat.. hopefully that has changed...



Many folk bring out their own SKY kit and fit it to the 1.8m / 4.2m dish of their choice... YES.. they're breaking SKY's Ts and Cs.. but they aren't going to get cut off - as they aren't using 'em in pubs / clubs - nor advertising that they bout from a guy who advertises he does... NOT 'wise' as it will draw attention to them..



Once again, Ts and Cs of EU based sat TV cos have been legally advised as breaking EU rules of competition - this DOES NOT cover Arab services... but I wouldn't expect you to pay attention to FACTs ;)



Those bringing out freesat units and fitting 4.2 m are going to be SAVING money AND getting UK TV... I thought you being in business - you'd be good at arithmetic

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 12:56

Proger



>>Had I went with Paul it would still be working because he would have sorted it. <<



AS I have predicted.. that will not be the case.. and a lot of people will be in your boat..



>>You know I am not trying to start a dispute and yet you still try to tell me what I do and don't know. <<



Sorry, Proger, but that's how *I* see it and you're addressing ME !



>>Your agenda seems to be to destroy Paul's business.<<



Once again, NO... it is to protect other folks from ending up like you



IF you want your box to work again .. take it back to an Arab state, and one you are there.. they must put it back on

proger1



Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 2919

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 13:00

kibrisvisitor, the addition of the word eventually actually makes it a completely different tense than you are suggesting. It changes it from a demand to a supposition, you should read a little more before judging people.



I wanted to try to convince Mark that I thought he had gone to far but if I am going to be attacked by people like yourself for their incorrect understanding of a sentance then I will leave it alone.



Ah, now I remember, you got pi**ed off because I requested a thread about rape that you started was closed.



You now have enough posts, write me a personal e-mail and I will explain fully to you why I made that request, I will not discuss it on here for the same reason I asked if that thread could be closed. If you are going to take things from me personally, at least have the decency to show it up front, I'm a big boy now, I can take it, honest

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 13:02

Magicart



you clearly don't know the *real* 6ms... suggest as you don't, your 'observations are well... you know, really...



I'll try one more time.. W/man has even made it clear he was only apologising for saying negative things - he won't admit they were untrue... something rather different - nor admit he is misleading YOU.. you will have to find out the HARD way - again - having been a Dopi 'victim' - I'd have thought you were wiser than that !

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 13:03

Paul. The case that was sent to the Advocaat General (for her opinion) 'may' result in the near future, in Sky being available from various satellites all over Europe on a tidgy 90cm dish, and in the next round of bidding for Premiership football rights, there may be many companies buying the rights to show Premier League football all over Europe. Whether Sky will be the cheapest company to be with if, and when, this happens - no-one can know !

BUT now is definitely not the time to be spending a lot of money on 'big' expensive dishes unless of course, money is no object.

Everyone knows that if they were to write to Sky and ask them whether they are allowed to watch their TV in Cyprus - they would be told that they aren't and that, if they did and Sky found out, that they would be cut off.



I think that everyone understands the ins and outs - it's just a case of how do we make mmmmmm understand that so he doesn't see the need to keep repeating himself ?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 13:05

Proger, I don't want ( or need) other folk to 'pile in' to 'help' or even 'defend' my stance... I hope you and others will respect that ! ;)



If you want help re the receiver that is blocked - feel free to ask !

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 13:07

I am just amazed that either 6m or washerman

get anything done

they spend so much time on here

"chatting" to each other

proger1



Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 2919

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 13:08

Mark,

It was your advice to buy it there but now you are saying, yes that is correct as I predicted. I feel so much better knowing that you have justified your prediction by me no longer having the system you suggested to me.



I give up, I have had some very good help from you in the past Mark and I took your advice which went wrong but you are now saying it would have happened or will eventually happen if I went with Paul.



Simple statement from my personal experience. I got the ADMC sports system for less than Paul charges however had I needed to pay for everything myself and not have my company pay for it the prices may have been very close.

One major difference is that had I gone with Paul, I would not have lost all the Premiership football channels that I paid for an annual subscription for the last 3 months of the season. I now have an expensive FTA box.



My loss for going the cheap route, not blaming anyone, jsut the facts mam

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 13:14

Washerman

'at last' comes to mind.. I've been trying to get you to admit that 'your' service is NOT supposed to work in Cyprus and that if 'found out' folks could be turned off .. YOU have been bragging about supplying businesses and this allows your stock to be traced - which may well affect the private punters.



The difference NOW is that IF sky turned off someone, and they went to the ECJ.... well, you know who'd win in the end...



THAT does NOT apply to ARAB TV services.. WELL you know it...



Perhaps you didn't know that cases where the PL were pursuing land-lords -when using EU based systems are on hold.. that doesn't apply to those using Albanian systems ( non EU)



Will respond later - it's too nice a day !

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 13:19

Mark, read again, do you really think that people are that stupid?

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 13:26

http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/59203.asp

http://www.satellitecyprus.com

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 13:42

is this thread still on topic ? or have i wandered into another ?

kibrisvisitor


Joined: 28/05/2011
Posts: 98

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 14:06

In reply to message 1 ....YES but if some one posts a link to a press article the poster should not be maligned if the press got it wrong.



Back on topic

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 14:27

Proger



>>It was your advice to buy it there but now you are saying, yes that is correct as I predicted. I feel so much better knowing that you have justified your prediction by me no longer having the system you suggested to me. <



Please don't twist my words with some obscenely STUPID slant..



I have offered to help you and that offer still stands - I am off on the road, now - but I'll check out chat history on SKYPE.. I'm SURE I advised you to contact them using an Arab tel no.



Anyone ringing SKY with a non UK / IRL tel number will be told they can't help - but at least you can complain - with justification - if turned off..



I WANT to help you - even if it's just to prove a pint, now ! !

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 14:29

..or point even ..... )))





Washerman... it's taken you over a year to admit the risk involved - and YES - having seen what happened with Uran / Dopi - yes - folk not in the know DO need to understand the risk.. they are only STUPID if they get conned twice....

proger1



Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 2919

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 14:44

Mark,

It is not an obviously stupid slant.

I did not mention about the phone number but as you know from the skype messages when we discussed this I got a new local number in Dubai.



I stated facts, it worked and they changed things and it stopped, I am not blaming anyone but you are taking this personally.



You claim that you are just trying to avoid people getting into problems by going with Paul but you advised me to do a similar thing but keep the number active, I did and it failed. Paul's way is to go through an intermediary company based in a country that is fully legal and they can call any time and look legal (I think this is how it works anyway)

All I know for certain is that I did as you advised me, knowing that something might go wrong and it did.

You advise people not to go with Paul because things might go wrong but from experience it hasn't as yet.



Paul, used to assume I was on your side and now you seem to think I am on his, can't I be neutral but have info

0maintenance


Joined: 22/09/2010
Posts: 2179

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 14:48

6ms



msg 62 Re msg 58



Mark.



I am amanda not zerochlor,David,now that we have got that straight i shall continue.



Such a poor reply,although im not surprised!



I think you should be ashamed of the bad advise you offerd to proger1.



If 20 or 30 people here in cyprus had of took your poor advise and got on a plane to some arab country and did as you suggested and ended up with the same problem as paul has @ the moment,what would you be telling those 20 or 30 people right now,Can you tell us?

Or do you see any advise you offer as just good advise no matter the outcome?



Mark if you throw enough muck some will stick,also i do not believe you care 1 tiny bit about the people in north cyprus and the TV system they have or what they spend,your problem is WHO THEY ARE SPENDING THERE MONEY WITH.



LONG LIVE OSN

&

http://www.satellitecyprus.com

proger1



Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 2919

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 14:58

Amanda,

I will actually admit that I was aware that it might go wrong and had my company not paid the expences for me travelling through Dubai at the time I would not have done it because it would not have been financially viable.

It seemed like a great idea at the time but the one flaw was the fact that I needed a Dubai number to register and activate the system, I got one and it worked when I set it up. It failed to work about 6 months later and they sent me a text message to the Dubai number so that I could get it started by calling them unfortunately it shows that I am calling from abroad on their system and advised me to call again when I returned to Dubai, that would be quite expensive and not worth it.

My fault I think for not topping up the phone number within six months which means it is invalid.



Mark, I do appreciate that you might be able to fix it somehow but as the football season is over there is no point and I will not be renewing the service next year.

0maintenance


Joined: 22/09/2010
Posts: 2179

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 15:10

WARNING. WARNING. THERE IS A LITTLE BAD LANUAGE IN THE YOUTUBE CLIP I AM POSTING,IF EASILY OFFENDED PLEASE DO NOT WATCH.



6ms.



After the advise you give to proger1 i would not take any advise from you or have your dish fitters.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bHH_HVx3Lw

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 15:45

There is one poster on here who can never possibly be wrong, or even a little incorrect, even when he has an olive branch offered he shrugs it away, how sad is that, makes him almost Cypriot (South)

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 19:06

Paul, if you want me to, I will sort out your ADMC receiver/account for you. I will get your number from a mutual friend.

proger1



Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 2919

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 19:19

Thanks Paul, I will contact you in a couple of weeks as I am not sure if I will bother with it, I wanted it for the football and that is finished for a while.



I will have a think about it but very good of you to offer, thanks again

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 19:33

Well, if you do decide, just let me know. You never know, I might even be able to get you a credit for the time that you lost with mmmmmm's system.



I have sorted out quite a few problems for other people's ADMC and OSN customers. It's only a phone call to the office so, it's no problem.



This is what I try to stress to people, it's the customer service that's important and that's what Gwyn and I are good at.



I wouldn't even consider supplying something that I am not confident in being able to back up with excellent customer service.



Gwyn and I have spent 7 years building our business in the TRNC and we wouldn't risk compromising our good reputation by supplying something that we can't back up.



There are loads of people that do the same as mmmmmm, they usually ask you to pay up front and the transaction takes place over the internet. They usually just act as an intermediary and blame the company when something like this goes wrong.



I assure you that: that's not what we

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 19:37

sorry, ran out of white space.



cont/.. are about.



Oh and not forgetting, it's an excellent TV system as well and this year, on OSN, you've got live X Factor USA, just a shame that my fav' TV personality Cheryl Cole is not on it.



Simon Cowell must be gutted, I know that I am.........;)

AnthonySmith


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 21:45

How funny is C44

What was the original question?

clairegordon


Joined: 18/11/2010
Posts: 105

Message Posted:
02/06/2011 23:07

Anthony

0maintenance


Joined: 22/09/2010
Posts: 2179

Message Posted:
03/06/2011 01:14

Its like a chinese whisper.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
03/06/2011 22:21

Proger,



re 77



1/ You KEEP suggesting or telling me how I feel or should feel about something ! .... I'm me - I know how I feel ;)







2/ Re those using OSN / AD MC via a company that once claimed to be an 'offical dealer ' ...I'll just say the word again - Dopi .... quite happy to stand / fall by my predictions !!!!



Now, I see you may have another 'solution' for your unit .. I'm pleased.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
03/06/2011 22:37

re msg 78



>>I am amanda not zerochlor,David,now that we have got that straight i shall continue. <<



..may be.. may be not ...



>>Such a poor reply,although im not surprised! <<



I bow to your superior knowledge sats and comms [ clue bat icon here - with a large hint of sarcasm]



>>I think you should be ashamed of the bad advise you offerd to proger1. <<



You mean to buy a system for well over half the rip off price Washerman was charging at the time... I wonder WHY that might be ! ?



Pray, tell us what the poor adviCe was.. ? [ clue bat icon here, too ] Don't read Proger's response...if you want that 'clue' !



I wasn't aware that posting facts - and I ALWAYS say that the only 'legit' pay TV sat services for CY are DigiTurk and Nova Cyprus.... but HEY, I wasn't expecting anything sensible... :(

0maintenance


Joined: 22/09/2010
Posts: 2179

Message Posted:
03/06/2011 22:52

6ms

This is my last post on this subject.



Lets just say that washermans system is less expensive than a sky set up here and every 1 who chooses it is very happy,including myself.



But the box or and system you told proger1 to buy was turned off,you advised him to buy it.



Good night.





Amanda.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
03/06/2011 23:17

re msg 84, Washerman - WARNING - another fib..



>>There are loads of people that do the same as mmmmmm, ..and the transaction takes place over the internet. They usually just act as an intermediary and blame the company when something like this goes wrong.

<<



1/ 'transaction over the internet' - you mean like accepting paypal / Credit card , etc ? Here's what any client buy from us has the legal right to expect.. in excess of k



http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Consumerrights/Situationsthatcanchangeyourconsumerrights/DG_183048



2/ 'they usually ask you to pay up front..They usually just act as an intermediary and blame the company when something like this goes wrong. '



Well, firstly - I think we'd be charged back by the Credit card company - IF we didn't sort it out and I KEEP wondering what you'll do WHEN OSN / AD MC are made to do something about your 'grey market' piracy .. I can't see how you can refund clients



cont ..

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
03/06/2011 23:23

3/ Do you charge in excess of what OSN / AD MC do ? ... don't ask any one I've helped get ( say) SKY.. they pay the going rate .. and no silly admin fees







Now, concerning Proger.. ( one more time )



a) did I make a profit from him ? ...A: NO



b) did I advise him re using an Arabic tel no when contacting them - A: YES..



Fair play to him for admitting his boo boo ...



W/man ... Anytime you EVER feel like posting anything remotely truthful about me - would be just great ...

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 05:02

mmmmmm......Mark, you really are a lost cause and I'm afraid that I am no longer prepared to defend the slur that you 'repeatedly' post on this forum.

Why can't you just chill out and accept that people are entitled to have a different opinion to yours and please try not to take it personally when they do.

Sky TV in Cyprus has many problems with signal loss and channel loss on a daily basis and so does Dopi, but some people choose it and prefer it over other systems.

I offer several alternative systems that are supplied on the same basis that people have Sky in Cyprus, but with my system, there is no signal/channel loss on a daily basis and it's much cheaper than Sky TV in TRNC.

The problem that you have, yet don't seem to recognise, is that when someone follows your advice, as did Proger1, and things go wrong, they are bound to feel upset.

Now, when you were offering the advice that you did, to forum members, I could quite easily have(repeatedly)

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 05:23

posted warnings about the pitfalls of buying from outside the TRNC and the benefits of buying from a local established, well respected company.

Even though he didn't purchase from me, I have offered Proger1 a solution to the problem that he has with the purchase that he made upon your recommendation because it's not in my interests to have someone feeling upset with an AMDC system when there is absolutley no need - especially, when I can sort out his problem for him in a 20 second telephone call !

Also, I think that people will now start to realise that with purchases such as this, when things go wrong as they have in Proger1's case, it's the suppliers attitude that's important.

Now, I know that our customers feel angry with you because you repeatedly post speculative comments on this forum in an attempt to undermine our business in the TRNC, and that they have heavily criticised you for this http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/59203.asp and I don't want to criticise you any further,

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 05:42

but in my honest opinion, in this case, it's your attitude to Proger1's problem that has let you down.

I don't want people to end up hating you because of this and therefore, my advice to you is to admit to everyone that you made a mistake by not properly warning Proger1 of the pitfalls of buying from a supplier who is in another country.



Now that something has gone wrong for Proger1 - I don't think that offering an excuse 'like' - I didn't make enough money out of the deal to give you follow-up customer service or, any product guarantee - is also not going to win you any friends on this forum and is a large dent in your credibility. That's not what people want to hear when they have a problem with a purchase that they have made upon your recommendation !



When you were offering this advice to forum members, I remember that you said that you were doing it to help them and protested when you were accused of doing it to undermine our business in the TRNC, but as

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 06:05

things have turned out, those forum members who are reading this may have justification for thinking and saying that "he was just trying to cause trouble for Paul and Gwyn and hasn't thought it through properly and now that things have gone wrong for someone that followed his advice - he doesn't want to know"



If it were not for the fact that you have been writing to OSN and others and reporting http://www.satellitecyprus.com for supplying their system in the TRNC and writing to the suppliers of Dopi TVs internet gateway and causing them huge problems (they have just had to change their dishes again), you may have recovered your reputation on this forum, but when people realise that you have done this

AND

that you have set up a business that is touting/selling Cyprus44's member's email addresses (taken from this web site) to the legitimate sat' companies under the guise of being an anti-Piracy advisor, I am not sure that you will ever be forgiven by this board's members

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 06:11

Finally, not intent on trying to lose 50% of North Cyprus' Expatriat residents their 'cheap' access to TV whilst aggressively pushing the expensive 'Sky' alternative and trying to close down two legitimate TRNC businesses, 'YOU' are now trying to personally profit from their misery.



DISGRACEFUL

Texas


Joined: 22/09/2009
Posts: 634

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 08:24

I would like this thread re-named Washerman & MMMMMM.



With well over 2,000 views it is obviously very popular. Do NOT close this thread! It is fascinating reading.



I am happy with my TV system, but this verbal jousting is excellent. If others avoid posting and leave it to the main two, it will run and run. They both absolutely love it. They stick to the rules, it's the others that will force it's closure. Leave it open and there will be no need for everything to be continually repeated. They both think they are correct. Best debate around.



Keep going guys.

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 08:32

.........

0maintenance


Joined: 22/09/2010
Posts: 2179

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 08:37

What a great way to get so many peoples email addresses.



Offer a free VPN. Quite a clever move.

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 08:39

Good morning Amanda - quite right, but it goes further than that, he's got your IP addresses as well !

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 09:28

So what Washerman ? You imply that there is something 'sinister' in MM having IP addresses of people who use his free VPN service. It is no more sinister than Izzet having the IP addresses of everyone who visits this site, or you of anyone who visits your website or me those who vist mine. None of us can tie those IP addresses to indivduals. You also claim he is accumulating email adresses from here and via offering his VPN service to 'sell / tout' to 'legitimate satelite companies' seeking to combat piracy. You provide no evidence but even without it the claim to me seems absurd given that such a list of email addresses has no commercial value or use to the people you claim he is trying to sell them to that I can see.

Whilst I understand the frustration of 'arguing' with MM as well as any, it does seem to me that you are no longer arguing and validly defending your position but have moved onto something a lot less savory.

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 09:39

Erolz, I have mailed you an attachment - feel free to read it and then, report back here

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 09:46

Washerman I read the web page you mailed to me. In fact I had seen this before. However no where does it support the allegation that MM is collecting email address from here and via his VPN service, along with IP addresses, in order to try and sell them to third parties, as far as I can see.

What it does show is MM making enquires directly to OSN about the status of OSN services being sold in Cyprus. Seems like a reasonable thing to do if your are trying to find out from OSN what that status is. I see nothing particularly sinister in the page you sent me. Certainly nothing that supports your claim re the selling / touting of email address and IP addresses.

magicart


Joined: 05/10/2008
Posts: 985

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 10:04

To he who walks on water!!



I really do think its about time you stopped this constant attack on Pauls buisness-its clear that you have an ulterior reason for doing so.



Interestingly-all of your postings are sent from another country- not the TRNC.



I wonder why??

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 10:25

Erolz, you accuse me of implying that there is something sinister to mmmmmm's actions and ask me to provide proof as to why I think that his intentions are sinister and I have done so.



You then say that in writing to OSN (and others), mmmmmm actions are reasonable and seek to defend him. I think that board members may have a different opinion, but you are entitled to yours.



You now ask me to provide proof that mmmmmm has collected email addresses from this forum and I can - from the one's that have been forwarded to me from the members of this forum who mmmmmm has written to personally as a follow up to certain threads (without invitation). I'm sure that several board members can also confirm this.



I don't need to provide proof that he has collected IP addresses as you have already admitted that this is easy, but you have said that it isn't possible to identify a person by their IP address and on this, I disagree, and I

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 10:26

know that Izzet will also disagree because, if I have interpreted Izzet's emails to me correctly, the ability to identify this board's members from their IP address is the cornerstone of CY44's policy of not allowing anonymous posters/duplicate ID's (forgetting VPN's etc. - we don't need to go over that)



Plus, I have the IP address of everyone that writes to me and when they add their name to the email, it's easy to tie them to their IP address - please let's not get into an argument about this as we both know the ins and outs.



Considering all this, the last allegation is made with good reason, and it is for mmmmmm to refute it. Afterall, that's the way he approaches posting on this forum - what's good for the.........







And, during several bans from this forum, mmmmmm has used the email addresses that he harvested to contact it's members to drum up support for his cause.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 10:50

Washerman your claim was that he was selling email addresses / IP addresses and I have seen no evidence to support that claim what so ever. Using email address to email people is not exactly the same thing is it ?

The issue of izzet being able to tie IP addresses to indivduals is a smokescreen. He can only do so for indivduals who have signed up using real names and who do not share an IP address with others. My ISP here presents the same single external IP address to sites like this (and to VPN services like MM's) for vast numbers of its customers. MM can not offer a VPN service without seeing the IP address of the people using it, it is just simply impossible. So yes he has these IP addresses, that is not in doubt.It is not a case of it being 'easy' for him to collect them. It is a case of its the ONLY way to offer the service he does. What is dubious is the claim or implication that he has some secret profit making enterprise based on these accumulated IP addresses [cont]

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 10:51

of which the users of his free service are unaware. I simply think that is not true at all.

I think you both have valid points and both of you have also acted badly to a degree. Washerman you are selling a 'gery' service. There are 'risks' because of that. Personaly I do not think the risk is anywhere near as great as MM makes out but it does exist to some degree. Nor do I think his discription of it being 'piracy' are accurate. Every system you sell revenue accrues to OSN in the same amounts as if it were not a 'grey' service. Also I do think MM is being a little disingenous about the difference between 'grey' OSN service sold in Cyprus and 'grey' sky services, in that his view on 'grey' sky service pre dates the more recent EU rulings about the legality of restricting such service by geopraphical location within the EU. Both 'grey' services result in revenue to the companies involved, unlike dopi which a system based on piracy of content. [cont]

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 10:53

Washerman I think your points about the advantages of having a local agent, even of a grey service, with a history and record of customer care are valid. However you recent accusations about MM in regards to his 'selling and touting' email addresses and IP addresses is to me going too far on your part. You have not presented any evidence for these claims, nor do they make sense. They do seem designed to me to 'create negative impressions' of MM rather than deal in facts of valid critisim. Anyway if the pair of you want to continue this battle over exactly what degree of 'risk' there is in a grey service like the OSN one you offer here and spiral out from that to ever greater and more dubious attacks on each other thats your choice. I will leave you too it. It might be better for all concerned if you could just agree to disagree. I think really at the core of it your only disagreement is how much risk there is with a grey service.

kibrisvisitor


Joined: 28/05/2011
Posts: 98

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 11:10

As ever the voice of reason from erolz

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 11:22

First of all Erolz, before we get any further into this, please can you confirm whether or, not you have used or, currently use one of mmmmmm free VPN accounts ?

Erolz, I have been warning board members that they were going to lose their OSN channels from their pirated TV systems since February 2010 and eventually, on December 19th 2010, they did ! When have I ever been wrong ? Just wait and see !

This is a similar argument to the one that mmmmmm has been using for 'years' on this forum - "when have I ever been wrong" ? one of the things that he repeatedly posts on this forum and 'his' justification for posting the malicious speculation and fear-mongering that he has.

Why should I be put to a greater burden of evidence ?

Now, we find out that whilst he has been maliciously speculating and making his predictions on here, in the back-ground he has been 'making' them come true by writing to various companies and causing problems for TRNC businesses.

cont/...

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 11:40

Some readers of this board may consider that, in writing to the companies concerned, mmmmmm has been deceitful and underhanded, especially, as he wants to take credit for the predictions that he has been making on here.



It turns out that is predictions were not based on his superior knowledge of the industry, but on his willigness and eagerness to 'inform' on legitimate businesses in Northern Cyprus. Coming from the part of the world that he does, he should know better !



Why did he not just come on here and admit that he was writing to the companies concerned and informing and warn people not to sign up with Dopi because he was running a covert campaign to undermine the service that they offered ?



Hundreds if not thousands of Expat's have had their TV viewing disrupted and lost money because of his actions.



Not content with that, he now wishes to do the same to us, but we are not offering pirated TV, we are



cont/...

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 12:07

offering TV systems on the same terms and conditions as those that many people who use Sky TV in Cyprus.

Is he writing to them too ?

We both know that the face of European satellite TV is about to change and that is why I warn people who may not have money to waste, that they must think twice before they spend a lot of money on big expensive dishes at the moment.

Writing to the companies concerned is probably something that many people may do if they were in his position, and may even be viewed as legitimate action in the face of stiff competition, but doing it whilst simultaneously coming on this board and acting like some sort of authority with his ear to the ground, paints a good picture of what he is really like !

AND based upon this and other experience of him, would I put it past him to be acting the 'hero' with the Sat TV companies too ?

I suppose that what it boils down to is just how desperate he is to prove himself to be right ?

rigsby


Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 912

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 12:21

Mark,Do you really dislike ALL of Cyprus that much? I think you must have had a real bad time there as you continue to post anything to undermine almost everyone there.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 12:47

I have used and do use Marks VPN service but only as a backup to a paid for service I use that is nothing to do with Mark. Though what relevance that is I am not sure ?

I ignore claims that 'When have I ever been wrong ?' are evidence that on a given point a poster is right whoever makes them. What I judge on is real evidence not previous claimed performance.

As far as MM contacting companies to 'make his predictions come true', I see no evidence of that. What I have seen is his correspondence with OSN asking them explicilty if your service is 'supported' by them or not. I have seen that because he made public those enquires and OSN replies, though not here, because he was banned here. You may see that as the action of someone trying to cause trouble for you. Personally I see it as the actions of someone trying to prove the point that OSN does not 'support' the selling of their service in Cyprus. [cont]

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 12:48

As to the claim that he ran a covert campaign against dopi, again I have no evidence that this claim of yours is true. What is true is that a system like dopi, that is based on card sharing and piracy of content, is inherently risky and considerable more risky than 'grey' services like either yours or sky services sold here (before the EU anoucments as well as after it). In the former case the original content owners and those they sell rights to broadcast said content get no revenue, so clearly the incentive to stop such services is high. With grey servies the companies like sky and OSN do get revenue from these and by extension so do the original content owners. So the incentive to stop such services is much lower. Even if there were evidence that MM was actively involved in 'reporting' dopi to people who cared, which if there is I have not seen it, it is imo silly to blame him for loss of service. Dopi is a system based on 'stealing' content and reselling it [cont]

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 12:50

I make no moral judgments about the rights and wrongs of doing this, but it is the REASON why such a service is much more risky than ones that are 'grey' services like your OSN one and sky services in cyprus. As I say I have seen nothing that shows MM 'informed' on dopi to people who could cause it problems. Even if he did I still do not accept that it was him who was responsible for loss of service on dopi systems and not dopi themselves who chose to sell a service based on 'stolen' content. If all it takes to shut a service down or cause problems for it is for someone like Mark to 'report' that service, then by definition his claim that such a service is inherently risky is obviously true as I see it.I am also confused about the 'stiff competition' bit. It seems to me that you are suggesting his actions are motivated by being a competitor to those he has warned about but if he is a competitor then I am not aware of what it is he is selling here in competition ? [cont]

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 12:55

As I have already said, I personally think mark has been misleading and disingenous at various points in these discussions, as well as having valid points to make. As you have too in my personal view. I am aware how frustrating arguing with mark can be and how determined he can be in showing he is right against even clear evidence. I know and accept all this, however your accusations that he is covertly selling / touting email addresses from here (cyprus44) and email and IP addresses gained from offering his free VPN service is I think just untrue, not based on any real evidence and has been said by you to intentfully 'blacken' MM if you can as a kind of 'revenge' against him for what you percieve as his unfair attacks on your business.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 13:24

Good morning let's be QUITE clear here



1/ I make no secret of the fact that I have helped the legit pay TV sat cos defend their copyright ...

- I KNOW folks who work for the companies that were having their content STOLEN .... if that makes me 'unpopular' .. so be it ... I have owned a sat tv co.. and it is somewhat annoying to see folk watching - without paying US - the provider !



2/ >>I personally think mark has been misleading and disingenous at various points in these discussions<<



Where precisely, please ?



3/ Re the VPN..

to be CLEAR .. I have made it ABSOLUTELY clear that I am not farming anyone's email / monitoring their IPs/ passing on their IPs to a third party.. or ANYTHING dishonest or inappropriate..





Rather, I think we need to look at the FACTS:

a) I'm not charging for advice and there is no ulterior motive / agenda ...

b) I HAVE helped some folks obtain SKY / AD TV - at the suppliers cost price



cont

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 13:29

Washerman



as usual, I see no response to valid points to counter some fibs - just more fibs..



I have asked you THREE times in a week to back up some of your 'claims' - NOTHING....



Rigsby



I love the island, and having been an expat -if I can help folk get UK TV - at the same cost as the UK - I do... and WILL !

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 13:34

MM the following are my personal views.



I personally think calling Washermans OSN service 'piracy' is misleading. I am sure you accept there is a big difference between 'grey' service where the provider get revenue for each customer equal to what they would get from a non grey cutomer and a pirate service like dopi where the boradcaster get no revenue from Dopi's customers. That this difference is material in terms of the risk of each type of service.



I think disingenous in that you today make a big deal about the difference with 'grey' sky services and washermans 'grey' OSN service based on the relevantly recent EU ruling. Yet long before this ruling you argued that whilst such a 'grey' sky service was indeed against skys terms and services, they were unlikley to ever worry abou that as they were getting revenue from it being resold. I see inconsistency and shifting goalposts personally. Just my own view.

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 13:38

Hi Erolz,

As I read and considered what you were saying in your intial response - "I wonder whether he is using mmmmmm's free VPN service ?" was a question that popped into my mind ?

I suppose that it popped into my mind because, whilst I was reading your response, I began to wonder why you should jump to mmmmmm defence - whether that makes it a relevant question to ask - I don't know.

The fact that you answered honestly and admitted that you are receiving a free VPN from mmmmmm, makes me think that you are a man of integrity, and that you wouldn't let this fact influence your judgement in forming an opinion.

Other people may think that it may influence your judgement/opinion in this matter, and view your comments with suspicion. I don't seek to deny those people their opinion, but I do ask them to try and put this, which in all other walks of life would cause people to view your comments with scepticism, to one side for a moment.



cont/..

Roomy


Joined: 20/02/2011
Posts: 836

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 13:38

So you are the self appointed satelite tv policeman here?

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 13:43

Personally, I think that you have more integrity than to allow this (the free back-up VPN connection from mmmmmm) to influence you in any way !

Erolz, I was going to go on, but then, I see that mmmmmm has joined us today and posted this:

"1/ I make no secret of the fact that I have helped the legit pay TV sat cos defend their copyright ...

- I KNOW folks who work for the companies that were having their content STOLEN .... if that makes me 'unpopular' .. so be it ... I have owned a sat tv co.. and it is somewhat annoying to see folk watching - without paying US - the provider !"



Need I continue ?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 15:03

Re msg 123, Hi Erolz





>>I personally think calling Washermans OSN service 'piracy' is misleading.<<



Agreed.. I have gone on record ( many times ) referring to such services as 'grey market piracy' - as THAT is what the industry calls 'em..



>> I am sure you accept there is a big difference between 'grey' service where the provider get revenue for each customer equal to what they would get from a non grey cutomer and a pirate service like dopi where the boradcaster get no revenue from Dopi's customers. That this difference is material in terms of the risk of each type of service. <<



Of course.. No disagreement , so far..



cont ..

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 15:09

>>I think disingenous in that you today make a big deal about the difference with 'grey' sky services and washermans 'grey' OSN service based on the relevantly recent EU ruling. Yet long before this ruling you argued that whilst such a 'grey' sky service was indeed against skys terms and services, they were unlikley to ever worry abou that as they were getting revenue from it being resold. I see inconsistency and shifting goalposts personally.<<



Incorrect: Whilst it IS true that 'grey market piracy' - i.e. a punter bringing his / her own box out to CY is not an issue.. 'dealers' claiming 'officialdom' and supplying public places is a VERY different matter.



Now we do have a situation whereby EU based sat TV cos are breaking the spirit of an EU competition laws- but that does NOT cover Arab TV services..



SKY do / did not turn a blind eye.. if you ring showing a non IRL / UK number and confirm that you are - just like Proger - likely to lose your service.. ( cont)

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 15:18

SKY - via the agents of the Premier League are actively seeking out locations broadcasting UK footie public places abroad - and those private punters using the services of a 'dealer' pushing such a service are likely to find themselves turned off along with the public locations.



The DIY route is 'better' and most folk are better equipped to do this from the UK



Like the VPN, if I help some one get a 'grey market service' they wont pay more than SKY charge - not silly annual admin fees or mark ups....



When I 'helped' Proger, I didn't ask for - nor want a 'fee' and I'm sorry he didn't contact me for help when he hit his snag...





Plenty of ppl on here have had me 'visit' their pc to try and help them connect to my VPN and I do it for NOUGHT...



I wonder where all the noisy 'supporters' of w/man will go / will say when I'm proven correct - AGAIN ?

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 15:24

"SKY - via the agents of the Premier League are actively seeking out locations broadcasting UK footie public places abroad - and those private punters using the services of a 'dealer' pushing such a service are likely to find themselves turned off along with the public locations."



So, according to you - no-one's safe - OK, I accept that, now shut up !

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 15:25

Washerman - to 'continue' - you need to back up your specific claims



1/ murky past



2/ failed internet / TV businesses



3/ that I might leave a client in the lurch who hits a problem



4/ >>Writing to the companies concerned is probably something that many people may do if they were in his position<< ...and what 'position' is that ? You know VERY well - you were VERY naughtily claiming officialdom and telling fibs about me... seeking my permanent banning ... I wrote to the sat TV cos ( and their response were deleted from here ) ...Am I allowed to post the link now, mods?) in response to your slurs...

proger1



Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 2919

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 15:28

Mark, you are inventing details to strengthen you argument.

I have never stated that I rang using any number, perhaps you miss-understood that but perhaps you just want to give your statement credibility. I did not call anyone with the incorrect number, and as per your statement had I used an IRL / UK number it would have also caused me problems as I registered the unit in UAE

I am not going to get further involved in this, I have a great deal of respect for your knowledge and your assistance to me in the past Mark but this is now such a redundant dispute that I am not interested in getting further entangled. I bought a system for much less than Paul at your advice because I had the opportunity, most people won't. It worked after I got someone to install the dish correctly and then it stopped the football which was the main reason I got it. So it was good advice then because it worked out cheaper for me, it isn't now because it doesn't work properly, basic facts.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 15:30

Washerman



I will 'shut up' when you withdraw your fibs you posted about my business' ... It is noted you can't / won't put up - so I suggest you follow your own 'advice'... !



It is good that



1/ you dropped your outrageous prices



2/ that you admit - finally - that that your punters are taking a risk - now the question is - what will you do for ALL of 'em - should your supply routes(s) having advertised you were 'official' - and telling folks public installation locations ?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 15:33

Proger



whether you tried to contact the Arab sat tv by phone OR by email ( wrong IP address) is splitting hairs.. the point is your 'wrong' location was identified...



I used you as an example - only because you 'entered' the fray ' - and fail to see how my incorrectly stating how you tried to contact AD TV is relevant to my point :(

Zoots


Joined: 05/02/2011
Posts: 669

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 15:34

Erolz: "I think you both have valid points and both of you have also acted badly to a degree."

For someone who repeatedly reveals members personal details on these forums, breaking board rules, you have one hell of a nerve moralising about others. You are the worst kind of individual and a complete hypocrite.

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 15:40

I can back up what I have said with malicious speculation (as you do) , but what is the point ?

Here's an example:

"Basically, you are satellite dish fitter who once fitted satellite dishes on the Greek side. You gave guarantees on the work that you did, but eventually you left the Greek side for the UK."

"The customers guarantees were worthless because at the end of the day, you weren't there to put the faults right - you were in the UK - you left the customers in the lurch - someone else had to pick up the tab"

Did you have an official Greek Cypriot registered business/company - What was the registration number of your company ?

I could go on and on, but 'I' don't want to insult CY44' member's intelligence



Honestly, Mark I don't know what

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 15:45

Hi Zoots



I missed this bit : >>"I think you both have valid points and both of you have also acted badly to a degree." <<



Erolz, I'd like you to explain this to me..



@ Zoots .. I really hope you and Erolz can move on from this impasse.. :(

proger1



Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 2919

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 15:45

Mark, you are using me as an example without knowing any details, you are making assumptions about my situation based on your beliefs and not facts. You are using my situation as an example to win your argument.

Unless you have specific facts about what I haven't done, please stop using me as an example. It is rather disappointing to realise that you will expand on known details with half truths to try and and win an argument, I even gave you a get out by saying you may have misunderstood me but you raced off on another angle to try and win again.

I came into the fray as you put it with a genuine statement that I thought you were better than that and although I realise it will not deter you in any way, I repeat the statement, I thought you were better than that.

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 15:46

mmmmmm, Proger1 trusted you and your advice and your response to him is totally innapropriate - like I have already said, it's the suppliers attitude and track record that counts.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 15:48

@ msg 135, "zoots": (...) For someone who repeatedly reveals members personal details on these forums, breaking board rules, you have one hell of a nerve moralising about others. You are the worst kind of individual and a complete hypocrite. (...)

▶ Real funny! A "banned for life 'member'" writes about breaking board rules and calls another (real) C44 member hypocrite! At least 20 times:

proger1



Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 2919

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 15:54

I am sure you have a great reply that might even have me questioning myself Mark, I know you are an intelligent person who will never back down when you believe you are right and that is fine but please don't involve me any more.Something I have recently learned which I have to admit is not easy for someone like me to swallow is that just because I am believe I am correct, I don't have to rub other peoples noses in it for being wrong.

I could point out a couple of contradictions you have made in your own statements above but that would just be me being pedantic and I realise that you are typing fast to get your point across so I will leave it and all the other posts.

Please find a resolution guys, it is getting so tedious that as a customer I will end up going anywhere but the places you guys have mentioned so neither of you are helping your selves or your friends

Zoots


Joined: 05/02/2011
Posts: 669

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 15:56

mmmmmm :"@ Zoots .. I really hope you and Erolz can move on from this impasse.. :( 2

Maybe if he makes an unconditional and public apology for revealing members' personal details, things can move on. I'm sure you'd agree that no matter how much you disagree with another's views, you don't resort to that kind of despicable behaviour.

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 15:59

Zoots, why are you dead against revealing your true identity ?



If you can't put your 'real' name to what you say - should you be saying it ?



There's an easy solution, reveal your own identity and set yourself free, but be careful what you say when everyone knows who you 'really' are.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 16:03

>>Basically, you are satellite dish fitter who once fitted satellite dishes on the Greek side. You gave guarantees on the work that you did, but eventually you left the Greek side for the UK." <<



1/ ) I 'left' my clients in the capable hands of Alexey... and Iceman has helped...



now do you know WHY I left... ?



2/ >>Did you have an official Greek Cypriot registered business/company - What was the registration number of your company ? <<



YES.. I did ( and do ) and not just in CY... I take credit card payments and NEVER had a charge back.. I've been with my current merchant ( paypal) for six and a half years..





Now, if you want more info I suggest you apologise for your fibs to date .. you have made a fool of yourself.. :(



NEXT...

Zoots


Joined: 05/02/2011
Posts: 669

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 16:04

Washerman,

No member is obliged to reveal their names on a public internet forum - and many would argue it would be insane to do so in the TRNC. Look at all the bother you are having, whereas I'm selling nothing and simply exchange views.

A nickname is a good enough indicator and that's why we have them. End of story

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 16:05

Proger.. I'd have to BE selling....

proger1



Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 2919

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 16:10

I meant, you are not helping your friend icemans case IMO but you stick to your guns Mark, that doesn't mtter as long as you get your point across and destroy washermans business for no reason or agenda other than to feel good for helping those who you think can't help themselves, sorry but I couldn't help myself, that is how it looks to me now Mark, not sure how many other people if any see it that way but I thought I would let you know.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 16:13

@ msg 142, (banned for life C44 "member") "Zoots": Your attacks on Erolz are despicable. He has nothing to hide contrary to some renegade half-Brit, who on several boards for many years now repeats his mantra that all Brits in the North are thieves, carpet beggars and worse - and that they all should lose their land and houses. Fine man you are. I definitely prefer the writings of Erolz.

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 16:16

One minute you say you have a business/Paypal, the next minute you deny that you are 'selling' anything - just offering advice.



Why don't you just come out and give us the name of your business/web site and properly declare your interests/ulterior motives ?



I too have Paypal, in fact 'anyone' can have Paypal (in the amount of time that it takes to fill out the form) - it's no big deal !

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 16:18

Proger



You have point.. but I'm 'defending' myself here.. !

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 16:19

...if Iceman is 'damaged' by association with me, that is JUST want some folks want !

Roomy


Joined: 20/02/2011
Posts: 836

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 16:29

Are you the self appointed satelite tv police here?

0maintenance


Joined: 22/09/2010
Posts: 2179

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 16:33

proger1



Paul. i dont think washerman is looking for any sympathy, but really Paul, washerman started this with an apology and the guy threw it back in his face and attached conditions - if they were having this argument in a bar, it would be easy to sit mmmmmm down, the hard bit would be stopping the by-standers from sticking the boot in or side swiping him while he was on the floor !



There seems to just little more add ons each time 6ms replies,bit like a chinese whisper.

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 16:34

great thread aj lmfao.

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 16:35

Zoots, OK, but in that case, you will have to learn to live with the fact that people who disagree with your comments will try and find a way to get back at you and the obvious way (if you are trying to hide your identity) is to reveal it - it's your Achilles heel, so to speak !

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 16:36

Zero 'clue'



Washerman apologised for saying 'mean things'.. ( he even clarified the point ) NOT for repeatedly stating fibs...



HE is the one who will be facing an angry mob one day ... I wonder will you be in the crowd ?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 16:38

Now, do foks remember what this thread was about ... ?!



Now we have a 'TRNC' biz that hasn't been honest - and when challenged, doesn't back up their 'claims'

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 16:39

Why don't you just come out and give us the name of your business/web site and properly declare your interests/ulterior motives ?

0maintenance


Joined: 22/09/2010
Posts: 2179

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 16:44

msg 151



Are you the person who sources them huge great big ugly jordrell bank looking dishes for export to iceman in north cyprus,could that be why you recomend his company or such huge ugly looking dishes so much,do you make a tiddlie bit of money on those huge ugly dishes?

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 16:45

Your not on the dole are you and in receipt of benefits and therefore, can't declare your business ? (malicious speculation/humour)

0maintenance


Joined: 22/09/2010
Posts: 2179

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 16:46

message 157



6ms.



be careful,or youll have your slingbox tester croonie pulling you up on your spelling

Roomy


Joined: 20/02/2011
Posts: 836

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 16:49

I understand it's a very small pond the TRNC but why the hell do some of you insist on going way over the top with the character assassinations and attempts toward the ruination of individuals/familes lives and livlihoods?

Personal vendettas are one thing and should remain personal imo but the morally reprehensible BS that can be read here at times is worthy of a good hiding.



Makes good reading though, hahahahahaha...



All of these so called grey areas are a risk, as long as the punter is aware of this there is hardly a need for a disclaimer or indeed an apology, when it turns to shit it's hard luck that's all.

Now, when someone admits to phoning satellite tv companies giving them the heads up about such usage and certainly if I was one taking advantage of said grey area and lost the feed I would probably rip your head off your shoulders if I ever came across you.Some grasses grass for money, some grasses say they grass on moral grounds, I find that most grasses are quite simply

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 16:50

.......

Roomy


Joined: 20/02/2011
Posts: 836

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 16:51

cowardly, snivelling bastards suffering from low self esteem and probably incapable of hacking it in the real World.



IMO.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 16:55

zoots "A nickname is a good enough indicator and that's why we have them. End of story "

If over 9 years you had used a SINGLE annoymous ID then there would be no issue zoots. The problem is the use of multiple IDs with the INTENT to decieve. Just to give ONE example. You call me a hypocrite for 'exposing' the connections between your many ID's. Yet what if on another forum you were yourself actively involved in encouraging the identification of posters real names there that you consider 'sandbaggers' with the threat of potential legal action against them in the RoC. What would such behaviour there say about your own hypocrasy on the issue of privacy of peoples use of anonimity on forums? You have done this and I can show where, yet of course your protection from such critisim is the use of a different name there than here. This is just one example of your abuse of multiple ID's. There are countless others I can show over the 9 years you have been doing this.

0maintenance


Joined: 22/09/2010
Posts: 2179

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 16:55

Roomy



your like a breath of fresh air.



Bloody ell.



Where have you popped up from.



Damm good post.

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 17:02

BUT Erolz, are you worried about Zoots because you think that people are being 'suckered' by him (not able to spot a 'ploy' from someone with an ulterior motive) - surely, people can make their own minds up !

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 17:15

Washerman after watching 'zoots' use of multiple ID's in order to decieve and mislead over 9 years I decided to make a post here about the connection between those multiple ID's and explain why I thought doing so was valid. Again to give ONE example. When an 'unkown' poster post incorrect information like 'the ECHR does not protect the rights of non citizens in the TRNC' then the assumption is they are just mistaken. However when that 'unknown' poster is in fact a poster with a 9 year history who clearly KNOWS that the claim is untrue and posts it anyway, then it changes totaly how you can understand the post. I think making this point, in a single thread, was valid given the extent in time and volume and locations that 'zoots' has been doing this. It is not me who keeps dragging this up at every opportunity, it is zoots doing that. He will not answer the question as to why he posted the above , knowing it to not be true when he posted it. He prefers the diversion.

Zoots


Joined: 05/02/2011
Posts: 669

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 17:18

DC wrote: "@ msg 142, (banned for life C44 "member") "Zoots": Your attacks on Erolz are despicable. He has nothing to hide contrary to some renegade half-Brit, who on several boards for many years now repeats his mantra that all Brits in the North are thieves, carpet beggars and worse - and that they all should lose their land and houses. Fine man you are. I definitely prefer the writings of Erolz."

Careful Dutchie, there's a big difference between kneeling down and bending over.

Zoots


Joined: 05/02/2011
Posts: 669

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 17:22

Roomy wrote: "...cowardly, snivelling bastards suffering from low self esteem and probably incapable of hacking it in the real World."

You mean like the lowlifes who reveal personal details on the internet? Couldn't have said it better myself.

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 17:38

I propose that CY44 should have a Truth and Reconciliation meeting (in aid of charity) and that all its antagonists should meet and join in declaring their full support for the charity concerned then, at least, some good will come out of the 'drivvle' that is posted on here - day by day !

Zoots


Joined: 05/02/2011
Posts: 669

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 17:43

Well, I must say that a multi-insult thread pulling in several antagonists is highly entertaining.

Roomy


Joined: 20/02/2011
Posts: 836

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 17:44

I like it hahahahahaha...

proger1



Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 2919

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 17:46

Let me know where and when Paul

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 18:08

Washerman my first response when I have a seeming 'clash' with a given poster on forums is to seek better understanding from all concerned with a face to face meeting. I know how distorted ones view can be when all you have to go on is bland text, mine and theirs. I have had many such meetings with people I have clashed with on forums over the years to this end and the results have always been positive. I have also over 9 years repeatedly tried to arrange such a face to face with 'zoots'. I have been rebuffed by him every time is the simple reality. This in itself inevitably colors my view of what 'zoots' is about and what he is trying to achieve over his 9 years of posting under so many different names and in different places and my conclusion over 9 years that intentful deciet on his part is the most likely explaination for how he choses to behave. How could it not ?

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 18:12

And I was one of them, my punishment is to cook a meal for Erol and his female partner!!!



Richard

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 18:42

And me and my better half are very much looking forard to enjoying your self imposed 'punishment' Richard. We have secured the wine already and hopefully its not got any meths or disel oil in it ;)

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 18:45

Well as you are enjoying the thread so much zoots lets keep it going shall we? Imagine a poster saying "I'm sure you'd agree that no matter how much you disagree with another's views, you don't resort to that kind of despicable behaviour." with the dispicable behaviour being "revealing members' personal details" who had also posted previously things like

"Do you know who this prick [forum nickname] is? Just trying to narrow down the usual suspects." Or In response to the question "Who is he and why does he hide his face behind a pint glass?" replied

"A pint-sized former Brit oil worker whose loyalty towards the Turkish Cypriots extends to going native in a village full of UBP supporting mainland Turks." Or [cont]

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 18:47

"Well sussed. He brings shame on his country given Scotland's history of repression and forced evictions from a larger bullying neighbour. Shouldn't take long to find out who the lowlife is." followed by

"There's only a handful of Scots active on the North forums. I doubt it's any of the women and it's certainly not Jock or Jim who don't have it in them to speak like that. "Rowlo" Les and Jay 76, while thugs, can't write half decent English (unless someone's been helping them). Girne 29 is a strong suspect at the moment, but there's a couple of other possibilities."

Personaly I think the posts above would kind of undermine said posters claimed 'disgust' at the revelaing of other posters personal details but thats just me I guess. [cont]

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 18:49

It is true however that as zoots you have not revealed posters personal details. Instead as zoots you seem to prefer to just make up lies about my personal details and post those instead. I guess that does not fall into 'posting personal details' and is not 'disgusting' if you know that the details you post are not true ? Lies like I live in a former GC home, a personal detail you have clamied about me here as zoots and you also KNOW is not true. Or that I am a 'foreigner' (to TRNC / RoC) another personal detail you have posted here about me and know not to be true. So maybe that's the distinction is it zoots? Its not disgusting to post personal details about a member if you know the details are untrue ?

Scoty


Joined: 23/05/2010
Posts: 846

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 19:18

Erolz - brilliant post(s)

IF the guy is apparently banned for life from here (other IDs) why does he get back?

He is obviously anti TRNC - so get rid! IMHO

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 19:35

Personaly Scoty, just to be clear, I do not support the banning of users based on them being 'anti TRNC'. I do not particularly want 'zoots' banned , though I do not run this site or set its policies. I do think given the unique and consistent use of multiple IDs used by 'zoots' accross many years and accross various forums, exposing the conections between such ID's is a valid to do. Just my own personal view.

Scoty


Joined: 23/05/2010
Posts: 846

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 19:42

erolz - maybe put it wrong but i agree with the fact he has been banned so often from various boards with various IDs - last chance saloon here? why - again? everyone knows who he is! banned, joined,banned,joined. he will appear as poppin next - everyone else is LOL!

Roomy


Joined: 20/02/2011
Posts: 836

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 20:36

I was under the impression that multiple id's all ran at the same time and would be closed down when discovered by admin?

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 20:46

I can not understand why they let him post or littlenige as he assaulted the board yesterday, I know Izzet wants posts but this will drive people away.

Roomy


Joined: 20/02/2011
Posts: 836

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 20:53

Having been deleted, banned, left of own accord and come back as many times as you like and still posting here does not constitue multiple accounts IMO as long as you only have one active account at any one time, it does however beg answers to a few questions.

Scoty


Joined: 23/05/2010
Posts: 846

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 21:00

185 - so it was the man in disguise -sober today. 2 banned for life personnel still allowed here !

posts make money. make problems for other posters though!

Poppin / queensbar/ others - needs a big look at!

BTW - change your password every time you log out- !!!!!!!!!!!!

Scoty


Joined: 23/05/2010
Posts: 846

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 21:23

Re msg 1 - yes -asap!

cypgab


Joined: 09/01/2010
Posts: 338

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 22:59

Personally I'm enjoying the thread, it has some well written posts.



Unfortunately I can't remember what it was supposed to be about.



Three people I do have respect for, Mark, Erolz & Cambell (it wasn't always thus for any of them) , are excelling themselves.



Keep going guys, it isn't whether you are right or wrong, it's the way you present your cases that counts.

Zoots


Joined: 05/02/2011
Posts: 669

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 23:58

Geoff,

Don't these forums evolve wonderfully over the years?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
05/06/2011 02:29

re 158



Washerman



>>Why don't you just come out and give us the name of your business/web site and properly declare your interests/ulterior motives ?<<



...says the guy who tells fibs and seems incapable of responding to a [FOUR times] request for you to 'spill the beans' :(



As I've told you before my status in the UK is 'self-sufficient' and how I derive my biz is MY biz.. I'm not the one making claims I can't back up... it's good enough for UK authorities and it will have to be for you, too



It is now noted that you claimed I left clients in CY in the 'lurch' which is also ANOTHER fib.... :(



You see pretty desperate, Washerman.. just how low will you go ?

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
05/06/2011 08:45

"1/ I make no secret of the fact that I have helped the legit pay TV sat cos defend their copyright ...

- I KNOW folks who work for the companies that were having their content STOLEN .... if that makes me 'unpopular' .. so be it ... I have owned a sat tv co.. and it is somewhat annoying to see folk watching - without paying US - the provider !"



From "Satellite Dish Fitter" to "Satellite TV Company Owner" - and which one was that ?



so, who's your best mate Rupert Murdoch or Walter Mitty ?

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
05/06/2011 08:53

Hang on, I've just had a thought, it's more likely to be the other way round !



From "Satellite TV Company Owner" to "Satellite Dish Fitter" - and (again) which one was that ?



I've got the address of your web site when you were a Satellite Dish Fitter - the now defunct http://www.4bigtv.com but what was the address of your Satellite TV Company website ?

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
05/06/2011 08:58

I did not want to get involved in this part of the thread but I had a very interesting conversation with a guy that runs a company called RapidSat in the ROC. He was over here doing business with others who will remain nameless. All I would say is Mark you would be well advised to bow out now.

Rottolover



Joined: 21/06/2009
Posts: 519

Message Posted:
05/06/2011 09:14

Well it's nearly 200 posts and still fascinating reading. Thoroughly enjoying it. Some good arguments and some emotive responses...fortunately the thickheads seem to be staying away from this one.



Sorry Sixems, but I'm still leaning 40-30 washerman's way...



I agree with you, cypgab, in the main, although I can't find an awful lot of respect for the arch-hypocrite, Campbell. He seems incapable of balance in any of his posts, and that "Careful Dutchie, there's a big difference between kneeling down and bending over." response in message 169 was one more example of his preference for ridicule rather than reasonable debate.

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
05/06/2011 09:17

http://www.skycards.us/



I see that this website sells sky cards and receivers for 'illegal' use outside the UK - does Sky know about this ? Is this your website ?



You live in the UK, but the address on the domain whois is Limassol Cyprus - where do you account for tax - being UK resident ?



http://www.uktvabroad.com - again registered in Limassol with Paypal payments going to Limassol, but don't you live in the UK ?



AND very expensive too ! Considering they are free in the UK - http://www.skycards.us/decoders.html



See how easy it is to ask awkward questions ! - Now, at least have the decency to invite me over to play in your back yard - what, you don't want me to mess it up ?



But you play in my back yard everyday - is that fair ? What have you got to hide ? What is your ulterior motive ?



mmmmmm credibility = 0

dalartokat


Joined: 14/04/2008
Posts: 734

Message Posted:
05/06/2011 10:01

Message 194. AJ your unbelievable sometimes, you were the one starting the thread about hurting peoples businesses and your now on the board stating you had a conversation with someone who was over to do business with people that will remain nameless and advising Mark to bow out now who also runs a business.



Why don't you tell Mark what you have learnt in order for him to defend himself instead of jumping in with a cliffhanger making yourself, once again, looking superior to others. unless you want to get involved, then don't post, email the people involved and just let them know what you have learnt, this is causing trouble by the back door because of your personal agenda with Mark.



Leave them both to it unless your willing to state what you have learnt.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
05/06/2011 10:44

re msg 192/3, Washerman



>>From "Satellite Dish Fitter" to "Satellite TV Company Owner" - and which one was that ? <<



So you ARE one of those ppl who think an opt repeated lie, will the truth make ?!



I have posted photos of a conference during a sat TV owners conference on anti-piracy ...( in Istanbul ) See what I mean about how low you'll go ? Do you think sat installers get invited to 5 star Hotels on all expenses paid trips? :D



http://www.flickr.com/photos/veta_mark/sets/72157602068861102/



How's your memory, now ?



At last, you have bother to quote of of your 'research' into some of my 'failed' companies...



Did you BOTHER to check if I still own the domains and if the email addresses till work ?



4bigtv: was a Digital signage and large screen (42") display panel company.... controlling the digital content of hotel groups such as Hilton and travel agents such as Co-op travel ten years ago.. sold it at a nice profit... some 'failure'..



Cont: