Back to the South Agent Talat your missions a success

dixie normus


Joined: 22/02/2008
Posts: 820

Message Posted:
29/10/2008 17:53

The genral opinion from not only Brits but locals also, seems to be this goverment has systematicly pulled the heart out of NC ,with its idiot policies, economy mismanagment and genral misguided handeling of the country.

Now Turkey is turning the money tap off, and Talat has no negotiating cards up his sleeve for the south, the ingredients all seem in the pot for a major disaster. The GCs must be rubbing their hands with glee with Talats ship sinking fast, what are his options? is there a leader out there who can save the place before NC goes bankrupt, or is it time to press the eject button.



D.N

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
29/10/2008 21:24

From Turkish national news



Barçin Yinanç



We might like or dislike the ruling Justice and Development Party, or the AKP. But one should give on to Ceasar what is Ceasar's due. The most important foreign policy success of the AKP government was the fact that it saved Turkey from the heavy burden called the Cyprus problem.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
29/10/2008 22:39

Could it be that the Turkish government have had enough of the thievery (is that a word) of Talat and Soyer's cronies. They have effectively pulled the plug on funding by insisting on proper accountability.



Talat must know he is in a corner and he dare not now reach an agreement with GC because Turkey will jump on his head. It will then be up to the incoming governement to sort out and reclaim Northern Cyprus for the North.



Although many Cypriots are happy to have friends on either side of the divide, I think that nobody north of that divide who can vote will vote for a reuinited Cyprus.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
29/10/2008 22:57

Very thought provoking post CIH.



Do you know when the next TRNC election is being held? I looked it up on the net and it seems an election is held every five years in the TRNC. The last election was in 2005, so that would make the next election in 2010, however in the GC press they say an election is scheduled in the first half of next year. Hence they seem worried that a hardliner might get elected and scupper the negotiations.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
30/10/2008 10:15

Please explain i must have missed something here,

Paul.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
30/10/2008 10:35

Paul



I picked this up in the GC press



Quote "He (Anastassiades)was speaking after a meeting in the Turkish quarter of Nicosia with Ferdi Sabri Soyer, of the Republican Turkish Party.



Both men expressed the wish and hope that the current negotiations be completed by next June, in time for the European Parliament elections.



Both are concerned that in next year’s elections among Turkish Cypriots, the hardline National Unity Party may come to power and this could put back, even wreck, the present reunification effort, since NUP stands for a two-state solution." end of quote

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
30/10/2008 10:41

The way Talat speaks about Turkey suggests that the two countries are very much joined at the hip. Talats latest outburst wont please Downer. He can't help but take a pop at the GC's, especially when he stands near a Turkish general.



Quote "In his address, President Talat once again emphasized that the solution of the Cyprus problem will be a solution which foresees the existence of two constituent states of equal status and the right of self-determination equally enjoyed by two peoples of Cyprus.



The President also laid emphasis on the fact that the rights and gains of Turkish Cypriots will never be compensated at the negotiations table.

Referring to the establishment of the Turkish Republic following the victory of the Turkish War of Independence, Talat said such a unique Turkish history had shed light on the Turkish Cypriot People’s path.

Mr Talat said the Turkish Cypriot side has taken the initiative of the Cyprus problem in its hands.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
30/10/2008 10:42

ctd msge 7



The President stated that Turkey has been the biggest supporter of Turkish Cypriots and said no one will have enough power to break the strong ties between the two countries.



In his call to the Greek Cypriot leader, Mr Talat asked Mr Christofias why he keeps blaming Turkey for the start of the Cyprus problem, saying ‘wasn’t the problem already there before the 1974 peace operation?`.

`The past of the Cyprus problem lies in the Greek Junta’s coup in Cyprus and massacres followed right after. And, I can neither construe Mr Christofias in his accusations, nor I can construe the isolations facing Turkish Cypriots`.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
30/10/2008 10:43

ctd msge 8



President Talat went on to say that the Greek Cypriot Administration does not perceive Turkish Cypriots as one of the equal forces in Cyprus and makes up the story which tells the TRNC is administered by Turkey.

`However, Turkey will not be standing as the lasting guarantee for Turkish Cypriots only, but for Greek Cypriots too` Talat stressed.



Underlining the importance of unity and solidarity during the ongoing peace process, the President said Turkish Cypriots can overcome all the difficulties by working jointly with Turkey." end of quote

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
30/10/2008 13:43

How predictably sad that a man who claims the status of a president albeit of an unrecognised backwater should follow the same blame game path as the nonenity who went before him. It shows a primitive and un-European edge to the man, which is I hope is just for the benefit of Ankara.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
30/10/2008 21:38

Mark,

Thanks for the explanation.



Pikey,

Nail on the head springs to mind "just for the benefit of Ankara"

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
30/10/2008 21:42

Ankara dictates the Turkish Armies movements!



wyn

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
30/10/2008 22:13

Wyn,

Thats what i meant.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
31/10/2008 18:14

newlad,



You do realise vacant seats are waiting for us at the Institute for Defence and Strategic Studies?

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
31/10/2008 18:27

I thought the IDSS' faculty and research staff conducted both academic and policy-oriented research on security-related issues and developments affecting Southeast Asia and the Asia-Pacific. Where does Cyprus fit into that?

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
31/10/2008 18:29

Mark



One also has to take the slant on Mr Talat's words in full knowledge that they are being released and interpreted by the Greek Cypriot side to show themselves in as good a light as can be construed.



They would never edit their report to show Mr Talat in a bad light would they?



It is a shame that the information coming out of these secretive meetings is being restricted to partisan reporting by spin doctors.... The UN's independent observers should have really been invited to keep this process honest and to stop this bad-mouthing of the opposing sides which appears to be an attempt to appease the hard-liners on either side and to make it seem as though all compromise is going to have to be made by the other side and that it is the others who are stopping the progress of the talks...



Hey ho, I guess they know best how to move things forward.....

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
31/10/2008 19:10

Hi Gavin



My posts were not clear - msge 6 came from the GC press and message 7 onwards came from the Turkish press.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
31/10/2008 19:15

I did realise this, and my post did lay blame in both directions for spinning although maybe not as obviously as I'd hoped....

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
31/10/2008 19:41

Hi Gavin



It's not you, but probably me. I can be slow in understanding sometimes.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
31/10/2008 20:49

Us men, eh?

dixie normus


Joined: 22/02/2008
Posts: 820

Message Posted:
01/11/2008 10:10

See from Cyp Today, we are going to be renting our houses from the Greeks in the future, sold down the river comes to mind. Sooner old Talat takes a hike the better, no wonder he's being so secretive about ongoing negotiations sounds like the walkover I expected it would be for the South.



D.N

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
01/11/2008 10:33

Hi D.N



I wont have access to Cyprus Today. Could you tell us some more about what is written and who in the government made the statement

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
01/11/2008 12:22

D.N

why would you rent from the greek? If as you say we are sold down the river then

would you not be more inclined to leave a place that had betrayed you in such a way.

You can rent anywhere! One would have to ask a Turk if they would stay on under those circumstances or return to the mainland.



What would be the ratio of GC to TC if a sizable number return to turkey.



Anyway ,I am sure Talat knows the social consequences of parts of streets etc suddenly taken over by GC's and will not want the strife to spoil the Nobel Peace Prize nomination.

As I have said before ,the spectre of people being evicted by north cyprus officials on behalf of the south ,would be unacceptable by all politicians in Turkey ,bearing in mind they need to get re-elected by a quite nationalististic population.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
01/11/2008 12:59

Renting from GCs sounds like a plausible idea to me. It could just be a way out for people with so-called "exchange" titles.

dixie normus


Joined: 22/02/2008
Posts: 820

Message Posted:
01/11/2008 13:00

Cyprus Today front page. People living on Greek Cypriot owned land in the North will be will be given the change to stay if a peace deal is reached --but will have to pay rent to its original owners. if a scheme put by Christofias is aggreed.



Hope this does not also refer to exchange land.



D.N

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
01/11/2008 13:01

girne29: "One would have to ask a Turk if they would stay on under those circumstances or return to the mainland."



Two birds with one stone, perhaps?

bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
01/11/2008 14:52

Again,



What does the term rent mean? Would it be some sort of minimal ground rent or are we looking at the going monthly rental fee?

As most people have built on land rather than moved into GC houses, I would think we are talking about ground rent.



This could be a fair solution to the problem and is worthy of discussion.

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
01/11/2008 15:07

PtePike./D.N

Am I missing something here.because it appears to be a non event.



I would have to read the article but if you are renting then it doesnt belong to you.

What would be the advantage of renting my place as opposed to any other.



All Christofias is saying is that I am allowed to stay in N Cyp and rent.Big deal!

I am sure the French Govt could say the same about staying in France

I can do that now without anyones permission ,if I have a visa .

And of course the Greek that gets my property is allowed to rent to me or anyone else for that matter anyway. Unless its meant that when the Greek is renting I get first refusal, just dont see the benifit,unless you really like the view from your place and want to keep looking at.



As the mainlanders going home, I was meaning that the Turkish electorate might find it degrading to see so many people forced from their homes by a TC govt at the behest of the Greeks



I am sure the French Govt could say the same about stayin

dixie normus


Joined: 22/02/2008
Posts: 820

Message Posted:
01/11/2008 15:10

Good point Bradus, but why would we want to pay a ground rent on exchange title land if a GC has already received compensation / land for his loss?

I dare say the devil will be in the detail, may be a good solution for complete builds.



D.N

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
01/11/2008 22:03

Bradus

Could never work. For the Greek to rent you the land or villa or whatever,he would have to legally own it.Therefore he would have to have deeds, and if that were the case, your feet wouldnt touch the ground regardless of any pre-agreement promises.



Also, who, how would sell it.It wouldnt be yours to sell as you are only renting.



Dont even want to go down that road,

bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
01/11/2008 22:17

Girne29,



The GC does own the land if it is exchange and most have their title deeds to prove ownership. What they would not own however is the villa or apartment block built on their land. What is being suggested at the talks is that the villa owner would pay ground rent to the land owner. Rather like buying leasehold rather than freehold.

Not sure if it is an acceptable solution as would depend on length of leasehold and annual fees, but it is being explored. Under this system you would still be able to sell your property.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
01/11/2008 23:24

Girne29: "Am I missing something here.because it appears to be a non event. I would have to read the article but if you are renting then it doesnt belong to you. What would be the advantage of renting my place as opposed to any other."



The way I read it is that people occupying "exchange"property will have to pay rent to the legal GC owner if they are to avoid being kicked out. But not to worry, the TRNC government has said their sovereignty is your guarantee.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
01/11/2008 23:28

girne29: "Could never work. For the Greek to rent you the land or villa or whatever,he would have to legally own it.Therefore he would have to have deeds, and if that were the case, your feet wouldnt touch the ground regardless of any pre-agreement promises."



But the Greek Cypriots AREA the legal owners of "exchange" property in the North. TRNC title deeds are universally unrecognised. You need to have title issued by The Cyprus governent to be the legal owner. If this report is true, those who have paid for this type of property have thrown their money away and are merely tenants owing rent.

bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
02/11/2008 12:47

Would anyone care to make a suggestion as to what should happen that would meet the needs of the original owner, the GC, and the present day purchaser? Where does the builder/TC that sold the property stand?

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
02/11/2008 14:20

PtePike

I know that, but I was talking about legal in the TRNC and was presuming that should bi-zonal arrangement be in place then the same would apply.



Its a mute point anyway, I am saying that renting is a non starter,because under even the trnc regime you would have to give up ownership .Then you watch ,within weeks you would be out. Also what is the benifit of me renting my own villa ,I have a choice of hundreds.



Just dont see what this is about.

bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
02/11/2008 16:12

Girne29,



You would not be renting your own villa only the GC land that it stands on. Like a form of ground rent.

dixie normus


Joined: 22/02/2008
Posts: 820

Message Posted:
02/11/2008 17:34

Hi Bradus ,Ref message34.

I would suggest the goverment should pay a compensation package to GC owners of exchange land, after all they said it would be guaranteed.

But as they are skint this cost no doubt would be passed on to the EU if a solution was found, as I believe no solution will ever happen in my lifetime it does'nt matter a fig, Talat will be on his way long before any settelment is reached, and will probably be replaced by a hardliner that will slow any solution process, by this time Turkey will knocking on the EU door and NC will walk in with them while the EU just thows money at the Cyprus problem hoping it will go away.



My view, Pikey will probably have a sharper eye on what future events may unfold.



D.N

mitsi


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 345

Message Posted:
02/11/2008 18:06

This "Hariri Model" was used in the Lebanon and is successful See Cyprus today. Never heard of it until now and seems that all GC land will be subject to ground rent, therfore all property built on GC land will, in effect, be leasehold not freehold. Property could still be sold but how many buyers would there be?seems all those who bought leasehold from the trnc gov were very wise indeed.

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
02/11/2008 18:19

Everything seems to be what the GC,c are going to get......... what will the TC,c get ?

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
02/11/2008 18:20

my point would be that you purchased the property freehold, the goverment guarenteed it was ok, so it is them who should sort it out.

if the greek cypriot owner wants rent they should be paying it.

or there will be lots of court cases where people could possible sue the builder/seller for some sort of breach of contract.

selling something which they didn't own would be a starting point.

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 10:57

Bradus

If you mean as like our feu duty then that would be ok,as affordable.If its leasehold then doubtful as little better than full rent.especially if you use it as holiday home or even worse ,as a future retirement home.It would be uneconomical.Someone who takes a holiday or two a year till retirement, would be required to pay rent on what would be 90% unused. If I spend 2 months a year in NC then if I didnt want to stay in my own property I would only rent for those two months,and not for empty months.



Agree with firestarter,that the trnc govt has to take some responsibility.



If they agree to ROC demands then they are in effect saying that they knew all along the property shouldnt have been sold by the TC owner, therefore admitting to misleading in regard to exchange land .In that case ,the case against the person who sold the property would be similar to someone who sells car

that doesnt belong to him,and he and govt can be sued.



What about the TC selle

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 11:27

Turtle: "What will the TC get?"



Thay will get their legal rights as citizens of Cyprus - which is certain to be a whole lot more than expats and foreigners who took a gamble can expect.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 11:35

Pike would like to think that this is what will happen to prove him right all along but what will he say if this is not what happens?



"Assumption... the mother of all f*ck ups!"

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 11:36

girne29: "...they are in effect saying that they knew all along the property shouldnt have been sold by the TC owner..."



I couldn't agree more. Authorising the sale of GC property was a criminal act by the TRNC authorities as it would obviously become a barrier to settlement - quite possibly the reason Denktas allowed it. All Turkey has to say is: "We had no control over what the TC government was doing and we tried to stop them etc." Which is nonsense because Denktas was the ultimate puppet, but who cares. Ultimately the authorities are likely to have a big enough job looking after their own than foreigners looking for a bail out. The warnings were well publicised after all, with even the British government urging UK nationals to exercise extreme caution when buying property in the TRNC.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 11:38

Groucho,



Seems the most likely scenario, wouldnt you agree?

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 13:29

Pike,



I agree, the assumptions you make may well be the mother of all f*ck ups!