Eu arrest warent issued for paphos born lawyer

araneae


Joined: 24/06/2011
Posts: 193

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 13:36

According to various reports an Eu arrest Warrant issued for paphos born lawyer Talat Kursat .



This has been issued by ROC for 9 offences relating to



False Representation to Property Purchase,



Money Laundering



Developing Land That Didn’t belong to them



& Other Property Issues.



Will / can / should he be deported ?



Moderator's Note: According to post no.9 its Akan Kursat, not his father Talat Kursat. ismet

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 14:32

Any links

or rumour?

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 14:39

Phil see The Stop The Blackmail page on facebook x

sloan



Joined: 24/02/2009
Posts: 808

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 15:13

http://agabuyersactiongroup.wordpress.com/



The front page of The People newspaper has been photocopied on the Agabuyers site. Underneath, it names the other two people beside Gary Robb, who have the EU Arrest Warrents.

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 15:19

They will not deport him from the TRNC to the RoC that's for sure.

sloan



Joined: 24/02/2009
Posts: 808

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 15:21

Agreed, Pugwash, but does it mean that he will not be able to travel abroad to any other country that has an extradition treaty with the EU (I am assuming that extradition treaties are for all member states, and not individual countries)?

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 15:32

Yes it probably will, however Turkey I am sure will not enforce it either.

sloan



Joined: 24/02/2009
Posts: 808

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 16:41

Yes, Turkey was the only other place that Asil Nadir could visit during his 17 year flight from the UK, so it would stand to reason that TC lawyers would be allowed to travel there.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 16:59

According to the ABAG blog it's Akan Kursat not Talat...

araneae


Joined: 24/06/2011
Posts: 193

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 17:12

typo and no edit facility



it is indeed >> Akan Kursat << who was born in Nicosia on June the 15th, 1974. After completing his Secondary education at the Bayraktar Turk Maarif College he went to England where he was admitted to study law at Buckingham University. He was graduated from this University in the year 2000 with LL.B. Honours title.



His Diploma was presented to him by Margaret Thatcher. He has done his Pupilage with Talat Kursat & Co legal Chambers, after which he became a partner to the Firm.



Had a fab day out at the merit here in lefkosia



PERHAPS ADMIN CAN AMEND THE TITLE ASAP ?

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 17:50

The damage is done.

Check your facts before posting.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 18:27

This is more about the ROC attempting to establish a precedent for international warrants to be issued to individuals or building companies that build on GC owned land. It has the potential to have a bigger impact than the Oram’s civil case of trespass.



It is rather grating that the ROC who has an equally corrupt property market is doing this. Obviously their only motive is political point scoring rather than seeking to criminalize the two TC's involved in this particular case.



Justice takes many forms. What a shame the TRNC government did not seek to sort out this ongoing well publicised case. It will undoubtedly have an even further detrimental impact upon the way the TRNC is viewed by the rest of the world.

0maintenance


Joined: 22/09/2010
Posts: 2179

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 18:45

I asked this on the 20th of june.



http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/66453.asp



message 12 is so right.



And they say they want a solution ! Course they do

wanderer


Joined: 05/02/2009
Posts: 1653

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 19:14

Bradus

Assume that the court in the South find Robb guilty and the other two guilty in their absence

Robb is sentenced and then appeals whilst in jail

How long before it ends up in the ECHR to have the judgement assessed and will they overturn it as they say that the IPC is the legal redress .

It would also be interesting if a deal was offered to Robb if he spilled the beans to discredit any politicians that have been on the take in the North perhaps the TRNC should ask for him back

IbrahimAbi


Joined: 24/10/2010
Posts: 245

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 19:17

Buckinham university? isn't this a dodgy buy a degree place?

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 19:24

If the EU have accepted

he developed "land that did not belong to him"

how does this effect the people who bought it?

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 19:26

Not wanting to condone Robb in any shape or form but if he is charged by the ROC could he not counter claim for them doing the same thing ?



Stealing land that did not belong to them and build on it and then not conpensate the real owner ?

Amounts to the same doesn't it ?

0maintenance


Joined: 22/09/2010
Posts: 2179

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 19:27

PB.



This is what i was asking on the 20th of june.



No 1 saw the writing on the wall.

wanderer


Joined: 05/02/2009
Posts: 1653

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 19:30

Phil

The EU have not accepted he has developed the land

Its an EU arrest warrant

so if you pass a dud 50 euro note or riot at apeol v Chelsea match or knock a policeman's helmet off in Latvia the country which you go to have to give you up to the country where you are accused whether the law that is broken warrants the sentence in your own country

http://ec.europa.eu/justice/policies/criminal/policies_criminal_intro_en.htm

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 19:36

Msg 12

There is no Greek owned land north of 'The Green Line'! Church's aside, wars invariably mean conquest of land but unlike colonising the local population, the Turks kicked out the Greeks in 1974 and took control of all the land they won. Unfortunately, similar to George Bush 1st in Iraq they didn't finish off the job, the Turks could have easily taken the whole Island and should of!



Richard

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 19:40

Msg 20 , right or wrong

the eu and un do not accept your views

wanderer


Joined: 05/02/2009
Posts: 1653

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 19:54

Phil the European court of human rights say that the land in the North is now with the people who reside there and the IPC is the effective solution

the roc ( rest of cyprus) law is superseded by this judgement but it will take Robb going to jail and the case going to the ECHR so he will get his deserts

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 19:59

Does this law over-rule the un resolutions?

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 19:59

Msg 21

I didn't realise that the EU existed in 1974! So much for my history!



Richard

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 20:01

Wanderer that is not what the ECHR judgments says. It says it would not be resonable to create a whole new set of hardships and possible infringments of indivduals human rights even in order to correct the prior infringment of GC rights who lost property and use of property as a result of 74. It also says that the notion of 'home' which is different from that of legal title, can not reasonably pass down generations who have not themselves spents a significant portion of their life in said property.

Nor is it clear excatly how the ECHR judgments re the validlty of the IPC as means of local remedy for GC who lost land in 74 would impact either civil cases for trespass brought in the RoC like the Orams case, or criminal cases like the ones that Gasry Robb would face should he be returned to the ROC under an EU sarrest warrant when he completes his sentance in the UK. Until these are tested in courts we dont know what superseeds what imo.

0maintenance


Joined: 22/09/2010
Posts: 2179

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 20:03

But how does all this news affect people who are already house owners in the north,builder builds house people buy and live in it.

With all this pending in the south,what can or could it mean for home owners here in the north?



Is there an answer or will it be just swept under the rugg until the dung hits the fan.



Or maybe it cannot have any effect on house owners in the north.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 20:05

philbailey msg 25. The many ECHR judgments made in relation to property in the TRNC, including the one that rulkes the IPC here as a valid local remedy for redress for those that lost land in the north post 74, are all made and have been made in light of UN resolutions. Un resolutions are not legal rulings, they do influence and shape such international legal rulings but are not such themselves. Judgments by the ECHR are legal rulings under international law. THe UN is not a legal body it is a political one. The ECHR is not a political body it is a legal one.

0maintenance


Joined: 22/09/2010
Posts: 2179

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 20:11

I think there is going to be a huge political game of chess in the next year.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 20:13

Msg 24 , so much for your history , I

apologise.



In 1957, the six countries signed the Treaties of Rome, which extended the earlier cooperation within the European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC) and created the European Economic Community, (EEC) establishing a customs union and the European Atomic Energy Community (Euratom) for cooperation in developing nuclear energy. The treaty came into force in 1958.[22]

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 20:15

Wanderer:



"The ECHR says that the land in the North is now with the people who reside there"



Where is this stated? I have always read this as "consideration needs to be taken regarding those that currently reside there in all negotiations"



GC'S can apply to the IPC and indeed must do so (and should) before applying to the ECHR but those not wishing to do so can wait until there is a settlement. I have just researched this and as far as I can see the ECHR has never changed it's tune with regards to the land TC or GC, belonging to the lawful owner pre 74. If indeed the property legally stood with the people that reside in it, wouldn't there be no need for IPC and would they even have a case regarding an EU arrest warrant for Robb? It does not make sense. I think this is wishful thinking rather than the legal stance.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 20:16

0maintenace, the potential for the bringing of RoC criminal prosectutions against anyone using pre74 GC property in the North and using EU arrest warrants to detain suspects has existed from when the RoC acceded to the EU and when they changed their domestic law at that time specificaly to increase the potential penalty under such laws so that they meet the criteria for use of EU arrest warrants. In that regard there is nothing new here at all and the writing was on the wall from that point onwards. What is new, if the reports are accurate, is that finally the RoC has decided to use this route in this specific case. Could they do so against 'owners' of pre 74 GC property here, yes they could, but to date they have not. They could also in theroy do it to anyone who 'uses' a hotel built on pre 74 GC land, or an office or any number of other permutations. To be honest I am surpised you could live here without understanding all this.

0maintenance


Joined: 22/09/2010
Posts: 2179

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 20:23

Erolz.



I did understand to a certain degree and choose to rent rather than buy,so the forthcoming case could be used as a test case?

And if it is successful then maybe it could be used against other home owners here or landowners or british builders or even estate agents?

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 20:32

Omaintenance ....................spot on. It has been in the pipe-line for some time now. Remember all the threats with regards to the Dome and the guests that stayed there? This however is a much better route. Who better to hold accountable to the EU than a corrupt building company that left so many victims homeless and in a "lawless country" that refused at act?



Emotive? Yes! Hypocrisy? Yes!



A gift on a plate for the ROC? You bet! If only the TRNC Government were a little more savvy.

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 20:32

Msg 29

For your information, Turkey first applied to join 'The Club' in 1959, it has taken awhile!!



Richard

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 20:33

0maintenace it COULD be used against the categories you list, as it could be used against you if you use (rent) property that was GC pre 74 or is built on land that was GC pre74. The criminal law in question cast a wide net in terms of who is a potential offender under it. Until these things are tested we do not know how courts, national and supra national, will interpret this law and its validity in regards to specific categories of offender or if the ECHR judgments re the IPC will impact any such cases. The key point here is use of the word 'could'. It is pretty clear that to date the choice by the RoC of if to use this law and if so against what kind of potential offender or indeed what nationality of offender, has been and continues to be principlay a political decision and not a legal one.

carian


Joined: 13/03/2009
Posts: 336

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 20:41

On BBC world a couple of weeks ago they were saying that the EU arrest warrant was brought in after 9/11 for the apprehension of terrorists murderers etc. and was not being used for this.

0maintenance


Joined: 22/09/2010
Posts: 2179

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 20:41

So hypothetically speaking if the ROC goverment came after me and i rented through an estate agent,would the estate agent not of been aiding and abetting me in renting me the property.



This could go round and round for years and the only winners yet again would be the SO CALLED LAWYERS,another decade of a new breed of cashcow

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 20:45

On 20 October 2006 a criminal code amendment relating to property came into effect. Under the amendment, buying, selling, renting, promoting or mortgaging a property without the permission of the owner (the person whose ownership is registered with the Republic of Cyprus Land Registry, including Greek Cypriots displaced from northern Cyprus in 1974), is a criminal offence. This also applies to agreeing to sell, buy or rent a property without the owner’s permission. The maximum prison sentence is seven years. Furthermore, the amendment to the law states that any attempt to undertake such a transaction is a criminal offence and could result in a prison sentence of up to five years.



? Robb's looking at seven years. The other 2 TC's untouchable UNLESS they stray from Turkey or the TRNC.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 20:45

Imagine they will go after the property owners

not the renters ,who could leave in hours

and have no money stacked

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 20:48

Carian there has been much 'complaint' and critisim from many sources that the EU arrest warrant system has been 'misused' by states in speicific cases for things it was never intended to be used for. There is a political risk for the RoC that widpread and aggressive use of it by the RoC as a 'weapon' to pursue narrow RoC political objectives , such that it undermines the system as a whole and its oringal intended purpose, could have serious political repercussions for the RoC and I think the RoC knows this.



Omaintenace under the RoC law in question in theory either or both you and the estate agents you rent could be deemed to have breached the law. Who the RoC prosecutors office decide to seek to convict for such a breeach, if anyone, is their decision. If they were to chose you it would be no legal defence to say 'yeah but these people where the estage angent involved in the renting' that I can see.

0maintenance


Joined: 22/09/2010
Posts: 2179

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 20:54

Better to go after the estate agents who wrongly advised some and also stuffed alot into bad property,some would of been promissed that the property they buy will increase 3 fold in the next 5 years from 2004,some are now worth only the same,and some slightly less.



But of course,buying a property is an investment,investments rise and fall.



So who is really to blame !

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 21:00

I think it is to scare off future investors/property buyers



might encourage a few more to fly from Ercan?

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 21:01

Bradus (mess 38)



7 Years? how awful for Mr Robb in a Greek Cypriot Jail!!!! as for the TRNC Government! my thoughts are not printable



Most of his victims have done 8 years already! but hey ho! I think Mr Soycan is already away in Turkey with the fairy's! if not he's keeping a very low profile! as for the Lawyer? well, we know where he is next week!!!!

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 21:04

What about the TRNC politicians who actively encouraged/permitted/devised the procedures for the sale of what they called 'exchange' Greek Cypriot land'? Are they not guilty of conspiracy to commit these criminal offences?



Is Gary Robb et al just the right people at the right time to prosecute?

0maintenance


Joined: 22/09/2010
Posts: 2179

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 21:06

There has always got to be a fall guy .

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 21:08

Poor Mr Robb just a Fall Guy :-(

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 21:09

philbailey, this 'weapon' that was created as a result of RoC EU accession and amendments made to their local laws is exactly that. Like any weapon the mere fact of having it has some value. As does chosing to use it rather than just maintaining a potential to use it. As does chosing who to use it against and in what circumstances. Just like any weapon, its use also carries risk for the user as well as for the target of its uses. If the reports are accurate, the RoC have decided after 6 years ish of having the wepon to fire it at specific target. It remains to be seen how effective it is as a weapon against that specific traget and in the wider context and there is still a risk that it use may lead to it blowing up in the face of the user, rendering its future use against other targets impossible.

0maintenance


Joined: 22/09/2010
Posts: 2179

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 21:11

You said it.



No 1 else.



But i do understand you.



It could of been much worse,the land could of been mortgaged,although it could be not much worse in your eyes i know,but im sure you know what i mean.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 21:16

Land could have been mortgaged!



Are there not already several memorandums outstanding?

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 21:21

All the TRNC had to say to Robb when he applied for citizenship,/to form a company/to build and sell properties is No, you have absconded from your country whilst on bail, you are not welcome here. But greed over ruled morality and good sense. An enquiry should be held to find those who allowed it, turned a blind eye and/or accepted bribes.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 21:28

I wonder if he will provide all the names

of the buyers ?

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 21:32

philbailey (mess 51)



Don't worry about that they already know

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 21:48

TRNC Victim,



7 years being the maximum sentence that could be enforced but lets not forget money laundering charges need adding too. Me thinks this imprisonment would be very, very different to his present sentence.



Can I ask will any of this lead to his assets being unfrozen and the victims getting any form of compensation?

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 21:52

Msg 53, do you think the ROC will compensate the buyers?



more likely the original owner/s I suspect



if they can get access to the money

0maintenance


Joined: 22/09/2010
Posts: 2179

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 21:55

Does any one know exactly how much money was spent @ the ameranta valley to get it to the stage it is now?



Or an estimate?

araneae


Joined: 24/06/2011
Posts: 193

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 22:02

more than was foun in the box with the paint bomb

0maintenance


Joined: 22/09/2010
Posts: 2179

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 22:03

Another double identity.

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 22:07

Bradus (mess 53)



Who knows???? It's a long and weary road :-(



Amanda (mess 55)



Certainly not as much as Mr Robb took from Amaranta Valley victims! but there are many other victims, from many more of Mr Robbs site's! Amaranta Valley is just a small item in his itinerary of greed

araneae


Joined: 24/06/2011
Posts: 193

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 22:09

Message 57 you and your washerwoman know all about them

0maintenance


Joined: 22/09/2010
Posts: 2179

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 22:13

araneae



I shall not be baited by you and get brought into your foolish posts.



Good bye



you are the weakest link

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
27/06/2011 02:29

Were any properties completed?

sloan



Joined: 24/02/2009
Posts: 808

Message Posted:
27/06/2011 07:00

Msg 11 A bit harsh, AJ, when araneae is such a recent poster and a newcomer to the board!!!

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
27/06/2011 07:20

How very ironic that Kulaksiz were allowed to do work on the site and then when the thieves fell out, barricaded Amaranta Valley because they were still owed £56,000, wonder if they ever got it? If my memory serves me well, I think it was at a time a 'committee' chose the builder - bad choice!! Blind leading the blind.



Until I see doucmentary proof of an Arrest warrant, I suggest caution. The People, the source of the information on the other two warrants, did not commit to print, did they?



0maintenance - multiple identities - people don't do things like that, do they? I have three but only use one per forum. I ony used to have two but they got lonely.

sloan



Joined: 24/02/2009
Posts: 808

Message Posted:
27/06/2011 07:32

Agreed, Pauline. The Agagbuyers indicate that their evidence comes from the Crown Prosecution Service, but how they have access to this, I do not know. However, time will tell and I think it will be an interesting saga to watch unfold.



Apologies for my misspelling of Warrants in msg 4. I only noticed it when I read back. Always in too much of a rush to push that 'post reply' button without proof reading!!

sloan



Joined: 24/02/2009
Posts: 808

Message Posted:
27/06/2011 07:35

Oh dear, Abagbuyers!!! I have done it again!

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
27/06/2011 08:00

Logically there should be other arrest warrants, Robb had a co shareholder Aga had a Secretary Director and other Directors he did not operate alone There were other snouts in the trough..



I have e mailed the CPS and requested the information about additional arrest warrants, I will publish details of the reply if and when I get it, until then, proceed with caution.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
27/06/2011 09:08

araneae.

Has the Pike formed a shoal?

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
27/06/2011 09:23

Sloan

Message 62:



'when araneae is such a recent poster and a newcomer to the board!!!'



Yeah right!! I guess that you are well aware who araneae is.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
27/06/2011 10:09

What a desperately sad position Talat Kursat finds himself. How do you sack your own son for bringing your law firm into disrepute and shaming your family? If we were all held responsible for the actions of our off spring, many of us would be in dire trouble.

SuziSuz


Joined: 13/07/2010
Posts: 135

Message Posted:
27/06/2011 10:44

Msg 64



The info on the warrant came from the journo who wrote the piece, he is in regular contact with the CPS. The reason for not mentioning Kusat and Soycan in the article was that the names mean nothing to the British Public at large and they are not English. We as ABAG did ask him to print the names but that was the reason he gave for not. He is hoping to do a follow up article on the non existent TRNC legal system and more on property scams.



Msg 55



This is largely unknown, but not one was completed and there in no underlying infostructure on the site.

araneae


Joined: 24/06/2011
Posts: 193

Message Posted:
27/06/2011 10:47

well done agbag

sloan



Joined: 24/02/2009
Posts: 808

Message Posted:
27/06/2011 10:48

AJ, msg 68 ..... that was what the smilies were for!!!!

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
27/06/2011 10:51

Suzisuz You have the luxury of being 2000 miles away, we don't. Therefore something in writing would be nice if only to keep the wolves from the door.



Look forward to the follow up article.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
27/06/2011 19:38

For more on the identified charges see:



http://northcyprusfreepress.com/2011/06/27/uks-cps-confirms-gary-robbs-extradition-to-cyprus/#comment-22891

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
27/06/2011 20:03

No confirmation but also no denial of the existence of a European Arrest Warrant.



However Akan Kursat TALAT is named on the charge sheet, a lot of charges, hard to believe that that would happen and then that person would not be arrested if they ever got the chance. Not accusing, just making an observation. If you judge people by their colleagues and associates, what message does this send to K5 in their legal battle with Akfinans Bank LImited.

billybob


Joined: 29/03/2008
Posts: 576

Message Posted:
28/06/2011 09:06

Amazing that the Cyprus forum carries the exact same story with the exact same spelling mistakes and exact same mistake on name, im with AJ on this un



http://www.cyprus-forum.com/cyprus34694.html#p680213