TRNC pensions not paid this week

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
29/06/2011 20:45

My TC neighbour is very upset that her government old age pension which was due on Monday has still not been paid. She was told by her bank that the government didn't have the funds to pay the pensions.

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
29/06/2011 20:55

Hector how awful for your neighbour! where the hell does he/she go now? I'm a pensioner in the UK I would dread to think what would happen in the UK if the Government couldn't afford our little pensions!

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
29/06/2011 21:04

I don't think there is anything she can do. It's been on the TV news that the government cant afford to pay. How will they afford to pay all the civil servants I wonder?

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
29/06/2011 21:13

Pensions are due at the end of each month but usually the Social Insurance pensions are paid a few days in advance.

The fact is that the Social Insurance Fund is in the red and the government has to meet the growing deficit which stands at around 12 million TL per month at the moment.



Turkey is helping with the finances of TRNC but Erdogan government made it amply clear that they are not prepared to pay an ever increasing amount. His minister Cemil Cicek had predicted six months ago that TRNC will go bust by September this year unless TRNC takes measures to cut expenses and also inbcrease its income. The current rulers of TRNC have not realized yet that Turkey is very serious with her warnings. They think that Turkey has no choice but pay up.

ismet

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
29/06/2011 21:20

Goodness Ismet, that sounds so frightening! do you think Turkey will Pay Up? seemingly looking at other threads the EU has Paid Up!

Navek



Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 2656

Message Posted:
29/06/2011 21:23

Hi elko2,

Has this all happened because you've not paid your speeding fines )))

Navek

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
29/06/2011 21:25

"His minister Cemil Cicek had predicted six months ago that TRNC will go bust by September this year unless TRNC takes measures to cut expenses and also inbcrease its income. The current rulers of TRNC have not realized yet that Turkey is very serious with her warnings. They think that Turkey has no choice but pay up."



It's hardly surprising that the TRNC rulers think that, it's what's been happening since 1974. What's different this year?

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
29/06/2011 21:27

I heard that the government are looking to save millions in the TRNC. A start would be all the pensions that get paid out.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
29/06/2011 21:31

Hector, the difference is this: the current government in Turkey is very serious. They got their own house in order and now about time they sort out TRNC. They will not pay unless TRNC complies with some reforms i.e. they will pay part by part in exchange for some action they dictate like privitisation of telephones and electricity.

ismet

Deniz1


Joined: 28/07/2009
Posts: 3829

Message Posted:
29/06/2011 21:33

Why dont they scrap PTP then all the taxes would be paid when folk got their deeds and that would help out the government a lot. Must be thousands owing.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
29/06/2011 21:34

Someone told me that an ex government worker retired on a pension of £24,000 a year.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
29/06/2011 21:37

Be helpful if companies such as the hotels and the various Belediyesi paid their electricity bills. If privatised I can see things changing and for the better hopefully (if the politicians can keep from interfering).

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
29/06/2011 21:48

Deniz,



What a common sense approach. It would also help if they made it law that on receipt of all monies the seller MUST handover the deeds.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
29/06/2011 22:15

msg. 11

Some pensions are over 3000 Stg. per month and all free of tax. Government tried to tax them but the constitutional court cancelled it. That is another story!!! Perhaps the judges were thinking of their own pensions not far away. Civil Servants also get a golden handshake when they retire, about one monthly pay for every year they worked to be calculated on the latest salary bracket. Sometimes they get promoted to a higher salary bracket just before they retire so that their golden handshake is even better.

ismet

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
29/06/2011 22:27

ismet (mess 14)



My goodness 3000 sterling per month? free of tax!!!!! who the hell paid for this? Turkey? the EU? or the many victims whose life saving went into the TRNC Black Hole only joking!!! sadly I do know it's not a joke certainly for people like Hectors neighbour! As for the Civil Servants....................

donga


Joined: 01/04/2009
Posts: 272

Message Posted:
29/06/2011 22:28

talk about rewarding failure................ (£3k a month)



good job there are the british cash cows to make up the difference

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
29/06/2011 22:54

donga ( mess 16)

suehowlittle


Joined: 31/10/2010
Posts: 1202

Message Posted:
29/06/2011 22:57

Remember, we are guests in their country. This is really none of our business is it?

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
29/06/2011 23:00

These pensions have not been paid for by the EU nor by 'Brits'. They have been paid for by TC (and a very few non citizens) in the TRNC not working in the public sector and by Turkey.

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
29/06/2011 23:21

suehowlittle/erolz

In simple two words.................well said.

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
29/06/2011 23:30

Goodness erolz the TC Private Sector must be very wealthy to be able to afford 3000 sterling a month pension to be paid to the public sector? or has Turkey footed most of the bill yet again?

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
29/06/2011 23:39

Turkey simply has to foot the bill that they do,not that it justifies the situation,all the while they insist in accupying.



consider it as rent!

suehowlittle


Joined: 31/10/2010
Posts: 1202

Message Posted:
29/06/2011 23:42

None of our business.



We should look at our own problems in our own country which we could not wait to leave (speaking personally), before we slate this host country.



Yes this country has lots of faults and lots of problems, but methinks you are all a little jealous of those pensions!!! Bet lots of tc's in private companies are too and it's for them to sort out. Not us.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
29/06/2011 23:50

TRNCvictim, yes since 1974 Turkey has footed a larger proprtion of the bill to support North CYprus state pensions than the TC private sector, and arguably has had more of a role in creating such a system as well in her own interest thant the TC private sector. The part paid by the TC private sector may well be less than that paid by Turkey and almost certainly is, but my point that I was tyring to make, specificaly in response to msg 15 and 16, is however small the part paid by TC private sector its more than the zero paid by either the EU or by 'Brits' directly. It may feel like every 'bad thing' in the TRNC is a burden on and only aimed at 'Brits' or the 'EU', but not everything revolves around these groups even if this forum does.

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
29/06/2011 23:55

Turkey should have thought before pumping the money over here to pay everyone just to shut them up.



"Life isn't like a bowl of cherries or peaches,it's more like a jar of Jalapenos.What you do today,might burn your ass tomorrow."

or,in Turkey's case,it's what they did 37 years ago and did not (for known reason)finalized it,is what's burning their ass today.

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
29/06/2011 23:56

suehowlittle (mes 23)



It is our business when some of us have lost our life saving to this Country! my own Country's problems are many, but I would never leave (speaking personally)!



As for being jealous!! why should anyone be jealous of a country that can't afford to pay it's pensioners?



As for sorting it out, they are welcome! why on this earth would I or anyone else want to try?

suehowlittle


Joined: 31/10/2010
Posts: 1202

Message Posted:
30/06/2011 00:07

Message 26



Someone else's pensions could never be anyone else's business.



Why are you so nasty?



Why do you attempt to turn every single thread into an argument?



Just back off and do some knitting or something!



No good just being nice when everyone agrees with you is it?

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
30/06/2011 00:22

Am I being nasty? just answering your questions!



I don't answer many threads, and certainly not many that you contribute to!



Gardening is my answer to people like you, not knitting! perhaps it's you who needs to find a good hobby?



and as for being nice, i could pull up a few old threads of yours!

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
30/06/2011 00:24

.....bitter sorrows up at horizon................again.

Deniz1


Joined: 28/07/2009
Posts: 3829

Message Posted:
30/06/2011 06:36

Msg 13. In my case i would have to pay £3200 in taxes etc when i get my deeds and that just a small house. Think of all the property owners that are waiting to pay it must be an awful lot of money.They can change the laws very quickly here if they want to and it would also go some way to prevent these horrible things happening to people.

negativenick


Joined: 10/11/2008
Posts: 6023

Message Posted:
30/06/2011 06:46

Mess 1....



Blimey - after shafting the Britts for years - the kfc Govt are now shafting their fellow Cypriots..............





They couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery...............

sloan



Joined: 24/02/2009
Posts: 808

Message Posted:
30/06/2011 07:44

Although I agree that another person's pension is a private affair, and that it is up to the TRNC government to determine how it is going to manage to pay the pensions, as we are merely guests in this country, it gives an interesting insight into the current financial affairs of the TRNC and a disturbing portent as to the future. Thank you, Hector, for making us aware of the situation.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
30/06/2011 08:50

or,in Turkey's case,it's what they did 37 years ago and did not (for known reason)finalized it,is what's burning their ass today.



Yorg.

I think you will find that the TC’s were very grateful to Turkey 37 years ago, no matter what.

As for pensions – what is better, a reduced pension or no pension?

This all sounds like Greece to me, and there’s me thinking TC’s had more intelligence and could get away with milking Turkey forever.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
30/06/2011 08:58

Yorg.

I think you will find that the TC’s were very grateful to Turkey 37 years ago, no matter what.

As for pensions – what is better, a reduced pension or no pension?

This all sounds like Greece to me, and there’s me thinking TC’s had more intelligence and could get away with milking Turkey forever.

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
30/06/2011 09:14

Suehowlittle....................we've been paying into the TRNC pension fund for nigh on 8 years and there are many retired Brit's who have lived and worked in the TRNC for much longer and who therefore, receive TRNC pensions so, it is the business of 'some' of the users of this forum.

Try looking outwards for once !

sloan



Joined: 24/02/2009
Posts: 808

Message Posted:
30/06/2011 09:26

Good point, washerman. I must admit that I overlooked that, but it does add another perspective.

gusanova


Joined: 23/11/2010
Posts: 187

Message Posted:
30/06/2011 09:57

So the reality is catching up with the nepotismic beaurocrats of the TRNC. Im sorry that some pensioners re suffering, but its not just happening in TRNC today in UK there are strikes over Public Sector Pension Reforms and UK people are not happy.



The TRNC has an unrealistic state governed bloated public sector and Turkey has been supporting this for years but they have warned TRNC and now reality is checking in and TRNC do not like it.



The TRNC tries to be communist yet Turkey is far from communist so the twain is never going to meet again so TRNC need to start doing an amazing thing and thats called work, not thinking they are like Oil Rich Arabs and getting Turkish Nationals to work on cheap.



They destroyed a cash cow in property, ruined tourism , cant run an Airline - They need to get a grip and make people work longer than 20 years before they get a pension in the Public Sector, or have to retire at 50 in private !!

suehowlittle


Joined: 31/10/2010
Posts: 1202

Message Posted:
30/06/2011 10:41

Sorry, I had overlooked the foreigners who actually pay into the system here. Still, you cannot accuse me of being insular because I objected to the comments of one particularly virulent poster. I certainly would not retract or apologise for my comments on 'minding our own business whilst we are guests (visitors) in the country'. Even if all the foreigners here were citizens, we could not make a difference, we are a very small percentage of the total voting population.



Having said all that, this country has cost me also a great deal of hard earned cash also, along with many other people but I refuse to be embittered by it. That would mean to me anyway the loss of a quality of life with some inner peace. That's all most of us want I think.



My posting certainly only reflects my point of view which I thought I was entitled to.

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
30/06/2011 10:51

Suehowlittle................if postings on this forum were restricted only to those topics on which we could make a difference, there would be a lot of white space !

suehowlittle


Joined: 31/10/2010
Posts: 1202

Message Posted:
30/06/2011 10:59

Washerman.



Agreed!

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
30/06/2011 17:48

Troodo;

"I think you will find that the TC’s were very grateful to Turkey 37 years ago, no matter what. "



Correct.If only we knew Turkey's actual intentions 37 years ago.



Then again,it now makes more sense as why anyone had bothered to invent a saying of 'fresh poo attracts lots of flies'!



KURTARILDIKMI?HASSIGDIR.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
30/06/2011 18:45

yorg.



I think Turkey is like an indulgent mother who has finally realized that she has spoiled her adopted kids at the expense of her own. Often, a short sharp shock is the only cure.

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
30/06/2011 23:34

Troodo;

One could alsoput it in another way..................she bit more then she could chew!

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
30/06/2011 23:47

Just FYI, pensioners were paid today.

ismet

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
30/06/2011 23:50

Good News ismet! as a pensioner I can't imagine how I would feel even being paid a few days late :-(

cavalryman


Joined: 08/11/2010
Posts: 314

Message Posted:
01/07/2011 01:11

How long can it last you have to pay in to get it out like all pensioners in my case 35 years to get £5000 a year. That from a reasonably wealthy country for which I have paird my contributions.This has not happened here and the size of the pensions are astonomic are you now saying that because they (turkey ) to put it crudely saved your ass they are obliged to finance you whatever.You have to contribute to get anything out its the real world nobody owes you. If you were running this country by yourselves it would have been bankrupt years ago

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
01/07/2011 06:34

weneverhadtheopportunitytofindout.



I don't neccesarily disagree with anyone regarding high pensions/13th month salary here,but I also know why these people been given this.I too was once naive enough to beleive,they came to save our ass,like you.







KURTARILDIKMI?HASSIGDIR

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
01/07/2011 08:58

I doubt the EU, or RoC, will ever be willing to take on the 'subsidy' that Turkey so magnaminously and perennially contributes!



Perhaps the TRNC government could ask the Yanks; if their answer is 'Yes', TC's would find that the Turkish military, if they agreed to withdraw, would soon be replaced by the G.I.'s!

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
01/07/2011 09:09

"I doubt the EU, or RoC, will ever be willing to take on the 'subsidy' that Turkey so magnaminously and perennially contributes! "



Perhaps one could replace your above comments with;

Would love to see how much Cyprus/Cypriots would prosper once all the embargoes put there by Turkey, are lifted!





my new manifesto;



KURTARILDIKMI?HASSIGDIR

Erkin


Joined: 15/06/2011
Posts: 339

Message Posted:
01/07/2011 09:36

Hi All,



While everyone has a difference of views on this topic, We are all seem to forgetting one thing, Most of the 40,000 civil servents in this country are from the mainland, every year The Turkish goverment pumps 590,000,000 Euro to this country,not for the sake of the TC's but for the sake of R.O.Turkey Citizens living here.



The goverment in Ankara does not give 2 hoots about the Turkish Cypriots as far as they are concerend we are a bunch of ungratefull idiots.



We live in a country where Mainlanders have more say then my our own people. There are over 100,00 illegal workers from the mainland and yet we can not even do a census to see the population numbers.WHY because Ankara does not want the world to see that TRNC is the 52 state of Turkey.



Ankara has already warned the UN and the European Union that if next round of talks on the 7th July fail, We will be the 52nd state.



They have alreay started clearing the closed zone in Famagusta for Turkish devolpers to build

cavalryman


Joined: 08/11/2010
Posts: 314

Message Posted:
01/07/2011 16:09

Most of the 40,000 civil servants are mainlanders REALLY!!!!

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
01/07/2011 16:22

I do not think its correct to say most of the public sector workers are mainland Turks. Nor do I agree with Erkin that mainlanders have 'more say' than TC. TC still dominate in terms of MP's as far as I can see. Having said that that is not say there are no issues, there are and they are very serious, I just personaly do not think they are yet as extreme as Erkin does.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
01/07/2011 16:25

The TRNC is really a stationary Turkish aircraft carrier. Just part of the Turkish defence budget. As for civil servants, I was told recently that there are so many teachers being turned out in the South that there is a waiting list for a job. A male who had been on the list for 26 years finally got offered a teaching post. In the meantime he's been a butcher. He only had to work for a month and then was able to claim the full teachers pension. Not only that but when he dies his wife gets the full pension.

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
01/07/2011 17:28

Think a little, the government has allegedly been paying cviil servants by borrowing money from Banks. The same Banks that have mortgages taken on villas after purchasers have paid for them. It is not such a stretch that pensions could be being paid in the same way. These same Banks that the Government seem to be backing and doing nothing to help the victims. If the government did the right thing and put pressure on the Banks to do the right thing, the Banks would have to start to call in the government loans, so yes I do think it is everyone's business and whilst I pay money to live here, taxes on purchases, and spend money in this economy I think we all have a right to an opinion as to how the government spends the money we help to contribute to, whether it is pensions or whatever, and so does TRNC victim who could not be further from being nasty, Just another victim.

keithr


Joined: 20/08/2008
Posts: 720

Message Posted:
01/07/2011 19:00

OK,if so many mainlanders are here in positions of power in the various government departments,how is it that the system is still such a shambles ??



Surely,their brief is to modernise and implement good managment ???



Yes ???



My experiences today tell me otherwise.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
01/07/2011 20:57

erkin joins the board a couple of week ago and starts making silly statements - I wonder who he is?

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
01/07/2011 21:53

The local government does NOT borrow the money from the 'banks'.



erolz;

I beleive erkin included the settlers in his comments and if that is the case,I totally agree.

However,I do not beleive this thread belongs to this forum,nor do most members has a clue about Cyprus or TRNC for that matter.





KURTARILDIKMI?HASSIGDIR

newscoop


Joined: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2197

Message Posted:
02/07/2011 00:36

The KKTC does use local banks for funds, it cannot raise money outside the country.



The money given by Turkey merely equals the money given by the EU to Turkey.



So in effect the Turks pay nothing to the KKTC



All this while the KKTC gives healthcare and education to untold numbers of mainlanders, who in turn tend to send their locally earned wages back to Turkey.



Who does the best out of all this?



It's not the KKTC.



And yes there are too many uncivil servants.

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
02/07/2011 06:07

The local government does NOT borrow money from the local banks.

http://www.kibrisgenctv.com/haberler/Kuzey-Kibris/Bicakli-Ihtiyat-Sandigi-Fonundan-Hukumetin-Borc-Almasini-Elestirdi-2490.html



as for 'too many un-civil servants'............what are the alternatives for local public?

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
02/07/2011 06:09

By local government yorg, do you mean the beledeysi, as in the UK we would refer to the local councils as local government, the duly elected members of local counclls, those that sit in Parilament as national government, is it the same here?

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
02/07/2011 06:40

No.By local I mean TRNC government,as opposed to RoC.

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
02/07/2011 08:15

Thanks for that yorg. How can you be sure they do not borrow from Banks, are they likely to tell us the truth?

cyprusairsoft



Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 2066

Message Posted:
02/07/2011 11:14

guys this is an interesting thread correct me if im wrong on these points



1. turkish cypriots detest all mainland turks

2. they are very intolerant of europeans

3.they dont want to be a state of turkey

4.cypriots that have lived in the center of the universe (london) dislike local cypriots even more then mainlanders.

sorry if ive gone off thread a bit

back to pensions glad they got paid

Erkin


Joined: 15/06/2011
Posts: 339

Message Posted:
02/07/2011 12:10

Hi All



Firsly to answer Troodo message, Yes I am new to this forum but I am a T.Cypriot who takes interest in the system of this country.

secondly my comments are not silly at all, can the goverment tell us how many TC's and how many mainlanders live in TRNC? No is the answer, at present looking at the popullation ratio of TRNC

1.TC's around 90,000 - 100,000

2.R.O.Turkey 350.000 - 400,000

3.R.O.Turkey Armied Forces 320,000 as hector mentioned a floating ship.

4.The TRNC has no say on how this country is run even though we have a parliment the actions taken are void if the Turkish Embassy does not approve the reforms, so we live in a country whereby the R.O.Turkey Ambassador has more say then the Ministers or M.P elected by the people.

5.Turkey does not get any funding fromt he E.U as non member they are only given very little assistance by the E.U so the money they provide is purely from Ankara.

6.If Turkey wanted the problem resolved in Cyprus it would only take them 1 day

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
02/07/2011 15:53

Sorry Erkin, thought you were a Cyprus forum clown, opps, I meant clone, we get a lot on this board.

Welcome, let us hope we can find some common ground where we can agree.

cyprusairsoft



Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 2066

Message Posted:
04/07/2011 13:45

like point 6 from message 64



do you mean war

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
04/07/2011 13:53

Msg 64.

We need all the help we can get, here in the TRNC, to get the country back on it's feet financially. Once this is done, we can look at the situation may be in a different light. Until then, sniping at Turkey does more harm then good.

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
04/07/2011 14:57

msg 67;

What help do we get from Turkey?

cavalryman


Joined: 08/11/2010
Posts: 314

Message Posted:
04/07/2011 17:55

Erkin really are you on something? even the ROC only claim 46,000 turkish troops 320,000,you make me laugh thats the sort of thing that causes trouble. The same as your, all civil servants are mainlanders.When this country was formed and the scale of the pay and pensions were agreed surely some intelligent person worked out at the beginning how it was going to be financed, or was it done on the back of a fag packet like everything else?.Yes Turkey had vested interests in protecting its souther flank do you think if they had not come you would be better off now? You want to be part of the eu they are still trying to find out where a lot of the money given to the Roc has gone dodgy accounting?.Surely you realise as does the rest of the grown ups in the world something has to change in the public sector why should the worse off subsidise it?I wonder if you could tell me the percentage of cypriot turks that have mortgages compared with say british or us citizens? Answers appreciated.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
04/07/2011 22:31

msg 68.



What did the Romans ever do for us?

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
05/07/2011 00:06

msg 69;

What do you think the turkish(mainland) public do if (compared with their population) 450-500 million foreigners were to invade thier country?

and for the record,those 'intelligent people' that had apearently worked out how to finance forgot to consider THIS IS NOT THEIR COUNTRY.



msg 70;

Don't know,wasn't around.I'm here now and was here in 74



you ain't got a clue,never will.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
05/07/2011 03:46

How can ex=pats argue with T/Cs

do you know better ?

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
05/07/2011 06:25

Yorg,

I'm struggling to see the upside of Turkey's long-term commitment to Cyprus. I don't mean for Cyprus, I mean for Turkey. It appears to have been nothing but grief from a very spoiled and ungrateful offspring that is a bottomless pit of financial drain.

What do you perceive to be the great advantages that Turkey has reaped from this over the last 37 years?

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
05/07/2011 07:16

read what the money they send is to be used for.

http://www.parikiaki.com/archives/11761



still,one more mosque ain't gonna do any harm,is it?



read,we are an illegal estate

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Cyprus



don't forget to add 400.000+ turks from Turkey that TRNC has to support.............most without contributing and sending all they earn back 'home'.



I'm still pretty certain,you'll struggle to see whats happening.Half British nation live off benefits/hand outs.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
05/07/2011 07:22

" add 400.000+ turks from Turkey that TRNC has to support."



You mean those actually prepared to work for a living! Yorg, the chip on your shoulder grows larger by the minute.

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
05/07/2011 07:43

You mean 'those actually prepared to work for a' very little by you?



As I said,'you ain't got a clue' what's happening.

Enjoy your retirement.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
05/07/2011 08:26

I don't employ anybody, so please don't pretend you know me. You have no idea what clues I have or haven't got. The true Turkish Cypriot friends I have got don't share the same view of mainlanders as you have festered (sic) in the UK.

If given the choice I'd rather employ somebody without 'attitude'.

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
05/07/2011 08:48

'you' is meant in general(time to flick it off),so no I don't know you,but I do know you are NOT Cypriot.



'The true Turkish Cypriot'...........let me know when you've figured out what it means.



The 'clues' that you have are in your comments re-Cyprob.



Carry on reading/talking to the likes of Eroglu/Kucuk..................my father did for years!

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
05/07/2011 09:06

Yorg,

I'm talking about people who still live here, have lived here all their lives, were relocated from the south and made a life and living here. They often speak Turkish and Greek and don't have blinkers on. They know they owe a debt of gratitude and they are embarrassed when some of their countrymen (often those who moved away and have now returned) betray a deep-seated racial prejudice against Turkey and Turks.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
05/07/2011 09:12

you ain't got a clue,never will.



Good job we have you around then yorg, or are you still in the UK? Or are you a swollow taking the best of both, one to live in and one to rant.

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
05/07/2011 09:23

I used to fit in that category ,too.However,I still don't disagree with the fact that Turkey's intervention had saved us.

so,now that we got over that bit,where is the 'piece' they had come here for?

As for turkish cypriots whom had lived all their lives in cyprus,you'd be shocked to find out the percentage of those you met/know.





msg 80;

I've often posted here of where abouts I am.........................call it what you may..............grip,clue...........



happy retiremement.enjoy the sunshine

cavalryman


Joined: 08/11/2010
Posts: 314

Message Posted:
05/07/2011 11:07

Yorg what i find strange is if as you say it was turkey that did the sums to make this country viable financially why is it roughly the same pensions as the south .Also i posed several questions to erkin which may be you can answer re numbers here.Also the whole world is changing the levels of public service pensions it is change or die so why should you cypriots be a special case north and south you must admit they are overgenerous at the least.Remember some of us were here in the early 60,s so we if not yoo know what lifer was like then.I await your answers with bated breath please do you best to be straight with the answers as opposed to my friend said etc

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
05/07/2011 16:40

cavalryman;

My argument re-Cyprob has nothing to do with your above comments.One thing arguing about high pensions,being special cases,lazy workers (I agree)..............etc and another fighting for freedom.

As for Turkey doing their sums,they did a very good job hence the reason they are still here,occupying my country illegaly...........and as much as the rest of the world are fully aware of this (as well as their public) none so far had the guts to stand up to them,including so called guarantor England.



I promise my above comments are not from my friends.

cavalryman


Joined: 08/11/2010
Posts: 314

Message Posted:
05/07/2011 17:33

I realise that yorg but trying to get some answers to the (facts) Erkin stated on the board as they seem farfetched to say the least.in msg 63 i think

Spike


Joined: 05/07/2011
Posts: 43

Message Posted:
05/07/2011 18:10

What Sal points out about the Turkish money for new mosques is true. How many TCs go to camii in Cyprus? Not many really. How many Turks go to camii? Many, in fact most of the worshippers are Turkish or Turkish ID holders.



So an Islamist biased Turkish government gives lost of money to make religious Turkjs feel at home in Cyprus. I don't think the TCs like this one bit.

Dixie Normus


Joined: 22/02/2008
Posts: 820

Message Posted:
05/07/2011 21:50

History is history in the case of the TRNC its like a lead leg, the place has been running in circles for years. The fact is the TC is a dying breed, over ran, out maneuvered by the motherland, politically inept and presently speeding toward the check mate position. The question is not if, but when the North's pretend politicians are shuffled off back to the coffee shops, and the mainland takes over in full, and once again the TC will be playing the only card he knows, that of the victim.

No money for pensions this month, no money for anything in 6 months, the puppetmaster will pull the strings and the TC will have to dance to his tune weather he likes it or not. Sooner the better I say.



D.N

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 00:09

our MOTHERLAND IS CYPRUS.

I'd dare Turkey to 'pull the strings',in fact,I can't wait for that day.



The question for you guys is,are you ready for possible uprising?or are you gonna be typical and put your tails between your legs and run for your life?.........like England!

Dixie Normus


Joined: 22/02/2008
Posts: 820

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 00:44

Yorg, I admire your spirit and commitment you have for your country, but as the old saying goes there are non so blind as those who do not want to see. Enjoy your biking, and the wonderful place you live in, but one day as much as you may not like it you will have to accept the situation. Life moves on.



D.N

Erkin


Joined: 15/06/2011
Posts: 339

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 01:04

Ok in answer to msg 69 in ref to the number of troops.The figures which I have mentioned are correct 100%, As a goverment tranlsator I spend most of my days at Kyrenia or Nicosia Police stations.

Now lets look at he figures again, If you care to search under UN pages. Just at the border posting between Yesilirmak and Varos districts there are 159 units, each unit contains 450 troops, so just at the border line itself there are over 70,000 troops.now look at all the other zones and stations and u willcome up with the same figures.#The bottom line is we are a floating ship for the turkish army, As for Mainland nationals, between 1974 and 1983 over 165,000 mainlanders were given nationality to boost the numbers in TRNC. Now lets look at illgeal workers The last figures issued by the police, we have 96788 overstayers from R.O.Turkey alone in fact i can even give you the sums for british expats, currently 15210 have residence permit and 568 overstayers not to mention the 18 in the prison.

Erkin


Joined: 15/06/2011
Posts: 339

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 01:13

page 2 now looking at the workers from mainland over 85000 workers, and yet despite been given work permits 78% have not paid a single penny in tax. Look around u and wake up.

Can someone tell me how many troops from Turkey were here from 1960 - 1974 what started as 5000 under UN agreement grew to over 15000 by 1967, Why the increase? well for those of you who think that the green line came about in 1974 think again.the greenline was drawn up by the Americans in 1967 not 1974, The north south divide has always been their from that date until the borders came in 1974. So please before you accuse me on being something go and do your home work first. We have a puppet goverment in TRNC have laways had and always will have, as i stated in my previous msg, the Turkish Ambassador as more power than the 50 elected MP in TRNC, At the last meeting in April in Nicosia the ambassdor got so pissed off that he left because the people opned ROC flags.

Spike


Joined: 05/07/2011
Posts: 43

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 01:16

Msg 86,

>>History is history in the case of the TRNC its like a lead leg, the place has been running in circles for years. The fact is the TC is a dying breed, over ran, out maneuvered by the motherland, politically inept and presently speeding toward the check mate position.>>

So this is a bad thing, you agree? The TC s must be supported. This is their land. This is all they have left.

>> The question is not if, but when the North's pretend politicians are shuffled off back to the coffee shops, and the mainland takes over in full, and once again the TC will be playing the only card he knows, that of the victim.<<

The politicains you talk about are Turkey's placemen. Which means the TCs are fighting for survival. Something they are getting used to.

Erkin


Joined: 15/06/2011
Posts: 339

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 01:21

and now for my last point on this topic: Has not one of you stopped and asked yourself this wuestion we all see police cars in this country with police man or woman in them, Ask yourself why not one car has a police wtitten on it?

Well the answer is quite clear is it not, we do not have police man or woman in this country because everyone of them wearing a police uniform are part of the armied forces. next time you see a police man or woman, ask and get the truth for yourself.we are the only country that does not have a official police ))) wake up people.



in which country can someone tell me where the police are made up of armied forces whole 15000 of them, so msg 69 if the figures are 46000 then what about the 15000 police who or what are they? please look at the whole picture and not just the frame of the film.

Spike


Joined: 05/07/2011
Posts: 43

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 01:22

Erkin, napan. Please keep these figures coming. Was the Green Line first in 1963-64?

Erkin


Joined: 15/06/2011
Posts: 339

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 01:27

thanks for pointing out the same thing spike msg 69 at last someone can see the whole picture.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 06:00

The Turkish troops that were here from 1960 to 74 were not 5000, nor were they here under UN agreement. They were 650 troops and the were specificed in the Treaty of Alliance, part of the three treaties between Greece, Turkey and the UK that provided for the end of British colonial rule in Cyprus. I would wlecome to see some credibel evidence that these had grown to 15,000 in 1967. There is much credible evidence from independent bodies that Greece , who was alowed a contingent of 950 mainland troops as part of the threaty of Guarantee had brought in 20-30,000 mainland Greek troops into Cyprus leading upto 1967 but I know on no such similar for the figure of 15,000 Turkish mainland troops. Some additional miltary people from Turkey were sent to Cyprus, mainly officers involved in setting up and running TMT and some students landed at Erankoy, but all told these would be in the low hndreds at most from what I have read. [cont]

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 06:14

Also the origins of the 'Green Line' and where it got it name from date back not to American plans in 1967, but to lines a British General, General Young, on December 29th 1963, drew on a map with a green chinagraph pencil that defined a ‘border’ between the Turkish Cypriot and Greek Cypriot areas of Nicosia. That is where it gets its name from.

Erkin I have some sympathy, as a TC, for some of the things you are saying but when you berate others for faling to see the 'truth' and yourself get basic facts seemingly wrong, it only weakens your argument for me. Sorry.

cavalryman


Joined: 08/11/2010
Posts: 314

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 10:44

Thanks for that erolz you beat me to it ref the green line a silly mistake by Erkin so what about the rest of his figures? I will check myself ref 179 posts with 450 troops all I can say at the moment is that there are less troops on the streets at weekends now and much less vehicles in the camps also you are giving your cousins in the south good propaganda to use against you as they quote 46,000.On a final note i was under the impression that the police were a cypriot force but under the jurisdiction of the army again simple to check as are the force numbers.

tattlad


Joined: 13/12/2008
Posts: 479

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 11:49

Yorg Msg. 87.

What planet do live on ? You accuse England of running away with their tail between it's legs, England have crossed swords with many on this planet and hardly ever lost, England has more courage and spirit than any other country on earth, just ask a few of the nations on it and they will explain for you, however if you are feeling bitter about England not helping out in the Cypriot troubles and turning their back on the Cyprus problem then there is a long conversation to be had on this point, with many reasons why the things happened the way they did, right or wrong, but you are well wide of the truth to accuse England of running with it's tail between it's legs.

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 13:55

After failing to secure British support for a joint intervention under the Treaty of Guarantee, Bülent Ecevit, the Turkish prime minister, decided to act unilaterally. On July 20 Turkey ordered a military invasion of the island (Turkish invasion of Cyprus). Within two days Turkish forces had established a narrow corridor linking the north coast with Nicosia. The intervention led to turmoil in Greece. On July 23 the military Junta collapsed.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprus_dispute



I wander what England would have done,had there been oil resorts in Cyprus at the time!!





ps.I promise all above are from this planet.

tattlad


Joined: 13/12/2008
Posts: 479

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 13:59

Yorg, slander England at your peril, as other nations have found out.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 14:31

Do you think the 'moderators' might just spot that this thread has gone a teensy weeny bit off topic?

Dixie Normus


Joined: 22/02/2008
Posts: 820

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 16:40

Spike msg 91,



The TC has been supported since the 74 intervention,sucking the Turkish teet, golden opportunities (property, tourism) have been abused for personal greed, if as a group with an elected government a full commitment was made to the country instead of self interest, no doubt a different tack may have been adopted by the mainland. This choice is no longer on the table because the government cannot survive, the fight has been lost. So with regard to the pensions they will get paid, the price is a few more concessions, gradually passing the tiller to mother Turkey who will then steer the ship on a course of its own self interest. the TC a dying race to join the the many that inhabited the Island before them, always loved and never forgotten.



D.N

brother



Joined: 29/01/2010
Posts: 446

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 17:30

Before this gets too silly it is worth remembering those retired government workers receiving pensions who risked their lives during the fighting so that everyone else now has something to argue about.



Please mind how wildly you swing that tarred brush around

Spike


Joined: 05/07/2011
Posts: 43

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 18:05

Msg 102



>>since the 74 intervention,sucking the Turkish teet<<

Yes, one hand held the teat the other hand held a gun. :(

Dixie Normus


Joined: 22/02/2008
Posts: 820

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 18:13

brother, pensions can only be paid to the masses if the economy generates the resources, the pot is empty due to many reasons of government mismanagement, doesn't matter if lives were risked, and their is no longer anything to argue about, their is only one road to walk as painful as it may be.



D.N

brother



Joined: 29/01/2010
Posts: 446

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 18:29

105: Yep, I am very familiar with the basic workings of an economy. My message was reflecting on apparent ill-conceived concensus on pensioners as a group.

tattlad


Joined: 13/12/2008
Posts: 479

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 18:35

brother.

In the animal kingdom if your are too old to hunt you die of starvation, lets hope it doesn't come to that for the pensioners, Dixie Normus is exactly right, if there is no money in the pot it can't pay out, sad but true, it's the same in England, where all those selfish lot are on strike for whatever reasons, they need to realize the pot is empty !!!!!!!!!

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
07/07/2011 00:36

tattlad,msg 100;

Merely pointing out the truth..........................as hurtfull as it may be.

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
07/07/2011 01:05

Tattlad



Not wanting to point out the obvious however the UK or Great Britain does not just consist of England!

Erkin


Joined: 15/06/2011
Posts: 339

Message Posted:
07/07/2011 18:11

msg 95:They were 650 troops and the were specificed in the Treaty of Allianc, not to metion the civil yes under the agreement 650 troops not to mention the armied forces coming in civil clothes,

the bottom line is we are a a dying breed of TC's being slowly intergrated as the 82state of Turkey. Coming soon to a cinema near you most mainlanders have managed to building themselfs a nice home back in Turkey thanks to our Goberments relaxed laws.

araneae


Joined: 24/06/2011
Posts: 193

Message Posted:
07/07/2011 18:14

Message 109 OH THAT IT DID / will do soon

cavalryman


Joined: 08/11/2010
Posts: 314

Message Posted:
08/07/2011 19:03

Well Erkin I promised I would come back with the figures you are slightly optimistic lol.As of wed first post (thats when they parade} the count stands at

1 corps hq

28 & 39div

5 armd bde

artillery bde

commando bde

plus ancilleries 40,652 troops plus 15,201 dependants (families)

So I guess the other 464,147 were in the naafi (cafe)

You must try harder and get out more

And to all boards in the south (don,t panic mr mannipou he can,t count)

cavalryman


Joined: 08/11/2010
Posts: 314

Message Posted:
11/07/2011 10:25

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