air display.....

debdebs


Joined: 22/05/2008
Posts: 285

Message Posted:
20/07/2011 10:31

does anyone know what time the air display is today?

kiwikid


Joined: 18/08/2008
Posts: 496

Message Posted:
20/07/2011 10:40

The Air Show will start at 1800 and finish at 1830.

If you are down in the harbour don't plan on leaving quickly as the traffic is crazy for about 2 hours after, but it is the best place to watch it, unless you manage to get on a boat then its amazing.

debdebs


Joined: 22/05/2008
Posts: 285

Message Posted:
20/07/2011 10:50

thanks kiwikid...just we had heard it starts at 3pm and didn't want to miss it.

tarry67


Joined: 16/05/2008
Posts: 1053

Message Posted:
20/07/2011 10:50

We have always watched the air show opposite the Back in Time bar which has always been a brilliant spot, and you can get a nice cold beer at the same time. Much better than sitting in a queue of traffic in town in this heat.

debdebs


Joined: 22/05/2008
Posts: 285

Message Posted:
20/07/2011 10:53

thanks tarry67....is the back in time bar the turning opposite tempo?

JohhnyLee


Joined: 25/04/2009
Posts: 2495

Message Posted:
20/07/2011 11:00

We had just got back our boat back in to the Old Harbour yesterday, and the practice started,



It was probably better than the actual show. They did a lot of different manouveres, and seemed to take more chances, due to the fact that not many people or boats.



The Coastgaurd boat kept an area clear in the sea between the large Battle ship and approx 200mts. from the shore.



They flew lower than the Harbour wall in this area, they also did the crossover in the town above the square.



I hope you see a few of these new tricks today.



For the first time since we lived here we cannot make it today, so we feel very lucky to have seen this spectacular event yesterday.



Only downside was the battery had gone in the camera.



In fact I reckon for future reference, go the day before aswell.



Hope you all enjoy this brilliant event.

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
20/07/2011 14:54

Turkish Air Force's new supersonic display team, "Solo Turk" using three F16s won the "best display award" at Fairford UK airshow last week . There were 29 teams competing from all over the world but the lads won it by a breathtaking display.

The difference with this show is that the moves are made at supersonic speeds often at 1.5 times the speed of sound. They are much bigger and faster than the Turkish Stars who will be performing here tonight. Not many pilots can withstand the pressures exerted at those speeds and these are the elite of which there are only about 15 all over the world, performing at supersonic speeds. Below link introduces the "solo turk;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvuN5FYzqiw&feature=related

tarry67


Joined: 16/05/2008
Posts: 1053

Message Posted:
20/07/2011 14:58

Debs

Yes you can go down that road or the road opposite the coffee shop is a better turning and then go down to the sea front.

Sid447


Joined: 15/05/2009
Posts: 141

Message Posted:
20/07/2011 15:28

Mssg 7,



It's a physical impossibility to perform a display at supersonic speeds. Even if it was attempted, the aircraft would have a turning radius larger than the island of Cyprus to keep a sustainable "g" turn rate.

Most supersonic aircraft can only maintain mach 1+ in straight and level flight.

Concorde, forty years on was one of the few aircraft capable of supersonic cruise without using afterburner.



There are many display teams with supersonic aircraft some are even Mach 2+ capable; but it can't be used for display purposes as already mentioned & also because the fuel burn is astronomical when using afterburner which is needed to sustain Mach 1+.





Not sure where you got this following quote from. It would be interesting to find the source and send it to NASA or ETPS to see what they say....



".Not many pilots can withstand the pressures exerted at those speeds and these are the elite of which there are only about 15 all over the world, performing at supersonic speed

brother



Joined: 29/01/2010
Posts: 446

Message Posted:
20/07/2011 15:34

Blimey! re: Msg.7 "...'Solo Turk' using three F16s won the "best display award" at Fairford UK airshow..."



I thought the Red Arrows were the usual winners at such displays

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
20/07/2011 17:00

Sid447

Why are you talking about the Concorde when we are referring to F16's? Many air forces use supersonic aircraft (the ones used by Turkish Stars are also supersonic). But not many use the F16 which clearly stands more stress at supersonic speeds than an F5. NASA does not need me to inform them because they already know of the handful of pilots who can stay conscious when performing such acts.

Here is another link from the Turkish NTV showing a display by the "Solo Turk". Just in case you do not understand Turkish, the climb and the barrel roll before inverting the aircraft was done at 1500 km/hr (1.5 speed of sound) producing a near enough 9G force both on the aircraft and the pilot. The newscaster claims there are only a handful of specially trained pilots who can use such advanced supersonic aircraft at such speeds for airshow displays. I am only the messenger so please complain to NTV if you disagree

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eX-Eq0IURGk&feature=related

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
20/07/2011 17:39

brother;

Red Arrows are not even as good as the "Stars", which are due to start in half an hour, in Girne. Please do not think that the UK pilots are not as good. As someone who learned how to fly in UK, I have always said it is THE place to learn to fly! But the problem is due to financial support for such fuel consuming shows. At a time when RAF pilots are longing to fly more often (grounded most of the time) due to military cuts, one would not expect too much of a training opportunity for the Red Arrows. But as I said, UK does provide one of the best flight training one can get (especially training pilots for the commercial airlines)...

lovingcyprus


Joined: 02/03/2007
Posts: 1272

Message Posted:
20/07/2011 17:56

re message 7



look at the following link:-



http://www.airtattoo.com/airshow/Newsroom/news/CREWS-SHARE-HONOURS-AT-AIR-TATTOO

brother



Joined: 29/01/2010
Posts: 446

Message Posted:
20/07/2011 17:59

bigOz Msg.12 I've never seen the "Stars" so unable to comment. Last time I was at RIAT in the UK I thought the Red Arrows produced the most exciting display amongst the French and the Italian teams then.



I know what you mean about the flying conditions in the UK (ex CPL/FI) and have also experienced flying in the US.

A shame that a significant number of people with a Pilot's licence in the UK spend more time worrying about the cost than flying to be competent. When I was teaching basic aerobatics and "bush flying" skills to PPL holders I found only a few people who could "fly the plane" instead it "flying" them.



I expect in Turkey, the weather is not the issue as in the UK but more the cost.



I would love to run a flying club in NC but there are so many reasons why not



Enjoy the display and if anyone puts up even a 1min video on YouTube I would love to see it.

keithr


Joined: 20/08/2008
Posts: 720

Message Posted:
20/07/2011 18:33

I missed them,please put up a video if you can.

Navek



Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 2656

Message Posted:
20/07/2011 18:35

Hi brother,

Found this one on You Tube...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVUk1LVfLxQ&feature=related

Long shots & from the cockpit

You'll find more via You Tube link above.

Enjoy.

Navek

brother



Joined: 29/01/2010
Posts: 446

Message Posted:
20/07/2011 18:38

Much obliged Navek

keithr


Joined: 20/08/2008
Posts: 720

Message Posted:
20/07/2011 18:42

Lovely stuff mate !!

Navek



Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 2656

Message Posted:
20/07/2011 18:55

Here's another, very good

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzeV8NPk50E

Navek

Sid447


Joined: 15/05/2009
Posts: 141

Message Posted:
21/07/2011 00:20

Re mssg 11



"...Sid447



Why are you talking about the Concorde when we are referring to F16's? Many air forces use supersonic aircraft (the ones used by Turkish Stars are also supersonic). But not many use the F16 which clearly stands more stress at supersonic speeds than an F5. NASA does not need me to inform them because they already know of the handful of pilots who can stay conscious when performing such acts...."



It seems you clearly understand everything you are talking about; never mind, you stay in your world and I'll stay with mine.

Everything I've learned as a military pilot since 1980 and as a commercial pilot since 1990 wouldn't stand up to your logic.

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
21/07/2011 00:51

Well sid447;

I am not in the habit of making things up, neither am I out to challenge the credibility of your experience. As I said in my message: "I am only the messenger so please complain to NTV if you disagree" and disclosed a link to the actual news bulletin to support my claim.

The above being the case, I think you really should leave my "logic" aside in this thread.

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
21/07/2011 01:23

brother; Msg 14

Great to know someone else who had an instructors rating from UK.

I initially got my PPL at Biggin Hill - Kent. Great fun! I then moved on to Elstree - Herts where I got my AFI/IMC Twin and other associated ratings. I then served as an instructor with the North Cyprus Aviation Association for almost 2 years before getting my CPL/IR in Turkey (Türk Hava Kurumu). Flying over North Cyprus was great fun. When the other flight instructor left for Turkey and I returned to England, that was the end of flight training in N. Cyprus (15 years ago).

If you are serious about running a flight club in NC, I can tell you it will definitely be a money maker! I can help you. If you contact me on turkishlessons1to1@yahoo.com, maybe we can arrange to meet for a drink and a social discussion of the subject

Hippo


Joined: 02/02/2007
Posts: 2070

Message Posted:
21/07/2011 07:14

Whole thing went to pot when they started putting women in the left hand seat.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
21/07/2011 09:52

Call me sentimental, but I would rather watch these old "Birds"



http://www.raf.mod.uk/bbmf/theaircraft/

brother



Joined: 29/01/2010
Posts: 446

Message Posted:
21/07/2011 11:47

bigOz; Msg 22



I will start a new threat as we risk getting banned for being OT



Look out for "Flying in North Cyprus"

Sid447


Joined: 15/05/2009
Posts: 141

Message Posted:
21/07/2011 12:35

BigOz,



These are the statements I'm referring to:-



1] "The difference with this show is that the moves are made at supersonic speeds often at 1.5 times the speed of sound." [Impossible as previously explained, but you seem to have overlooked it!]



Info: http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-8643.html



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16_Fighting_Falcon



2] "Not many pilots can withstand the pressures exerted at those speeds and these are the elite of which there are only about 15 all over the world, performing at supersonic speeds." [There are literally thousands of people that are capable of sustained 4+g and women perform better than men at this.]



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Axzw7pcMoQ



For someone with your experience I'm surprised you even believe this.



MartinD41,



I too love the old warbirds. different wonderful sounds from big piston power; don't need five miles of airspace to pull a 360 degree turn & lots of hands-on skill with no computer

brother



Joined: 29/01/2010
Posts: 446

Message Posted:
21/07/2011 13:42

Doh! My Msg.25 should read "I will start a new thread" :->

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
21/07/2011 14:05

Sid447;

I am not sure what message you are conveying in your links but based on their content and your initial claim that (I quote): "It's a physical impossibility to perform a display at supersonic speeds...... Most supersonic aircraft can only maintain mach 1+ in straight and level flight".

I hope we agree that a standard F16 C/D can reach Mach 2 at altitude. As for the barrel roll "Solo Turk" is claimed to have performed at high altitude (at speeds nearing Mach 1.5) by NTV news, why is it impossible? I strongly disagree with the above!

If you care to read half way down this link:

http://books.google.com.tr/books?id=kgAAAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA94&lpg=PA94&dq=barrel+roll+at+supersonic+speed&source=bl&ots=tzyd8O-z_s&sig=8ixibl_EdIlbqiIPKKhYB45Ht9U&hl=tr&ei=gQEoTp-SKYXvsgbBtOyQCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CFIQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=barrel%20roll%20at%20supersonic%20speed&f=false

you will find out the F18 (brother of F16) was doing barrel rolls at Mach 1.2 (cont.)

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
21/07/2011 14:18

If you now wish to say "F18s are better performers at high speeds/low altitudes than F16"s, that I can also prove to be wrong by this link to (ANG F-16Cs take on F/A-18s...) : http://www.f-16.net/news_article1377.html where it clearly says: "According to Air Force Brig. Gen. Mike I. Edwards, commander, 140th Fighter Wing, both fighter jet models are designed to be strong in different areas of aerial combat."They are both superb airplanes," said Edwards. "In certain regimes the F-16 is better, in others the F-18 is better. In low-altitude, fast flights, the F-16 is more useful"! In other words whatever F18 can do at high speed and lower altitudes, the F16s can do better!

Hence, your insinuation that F16s can only manage Mach+ speeds at straight and level flight is not valid at all!

So as far as I am concerned, F16 CAN DO barrel rolls at supersonic flight speeds, and pilots can sustain G levels during such manoeuvres. So perhaps you can tell me now why I should not believe NTN

Sid447


Joined: 15/05/2009
Posts: 141

Message Posted:
21/07/2011 14:31

As usual,



It's never good policy to discuss logic or reality with someone who doesn't understand it in the first place, they'll always beat you with their unreasonable experience.



If you come on a public forum spouting off absolute cr*p you surely leave yourself open to some people who might just know a little about the subject you are crucifying with misleading and untrue statements.



Any experienced pilot can perform barrel rolls at any speed the aircraft is cleared for. It's a 1g manoeuvre for crissakes! ...you don't even bleed off energy.



Also your so-called elite of 15 pilots which you still haven't acknowledged or referred to, who are apparent supermen; beggars belief. Where did that gem of information come from?



If you had been straight enough to answer the post I made first time this would have been done & dusted by now. Instead you start ducking and weaving like some typical bullshi*@er who thinks he's a know-it-all.

Fawkes


Joined: 18/07/2011
Posts: 86

Message Posted:
21/07/2011 14:35

ducking and weaving like some typical bullshi*@er who thinks he's a know-it-all.



ooo erm you will find a lot of the in trnc.

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
21/07/2011 14:50

Sid447;

The fact that you have resorted to abusive language, when proven to be absolutely wrong about the silly statements you made is quite normal and can only put a smile on my face. I can see that you have not even bothered to accept your ridiculous statement such as "The difference with this show is that the moves are made at supersonic speeds often at 1.5 times the speed of sound." [Impossible as previously explained, but you seem to have overlooked it!]" OR even sillier statements such as "It's a physical impossibility to perform a display at supersonic speeds. Even if it was attempted, the aircraft would have a turning radius larger than the island of Cyprus to keep a sustainable "g" turn rate. Most supersonic aircraft can only maintain mach 1+ in straight and level flight" tells me that the only bullshi*@er between us is you and that you are not even a pilot - are you sure you are not actally one of those lads driving the refuelling trucks?

Glasbury


Joined: 13/08/2010
Posts: 268

Message Posted:
21/07/2011 14:51

Msg 24 martinD41 - I totally agree with you. On Tuesday the Lancaster flew right past our place on route to the Royal Welsh Show for a flypast. Watched it go then and sas it return en route to Culdrose. Fantastic.

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
21/07/2011 15:02

As for the other top 15 pilots in the world who CAN perform the diffiult manoeuvres, I have not actually noticed you asking me the the question in any of your post! You simply gave me links talking about many supersonic aircraft used by pilots in air displays. THEY do not use supersonic speeds during their displays and according to NTV it is only a handful numbering around 15 who do that! I also expressed it to you, it was what the newscaster who said that. Since both the F16 and the pilots are capable of such manoeuvres, as proven to you by the links I provided to activities by US air force in that field, I have no reason to doubt its validity.

All you have done is turn abusive when given the facts and are yet to argue the contrary with evidence. You clearly do not like being proven wrong!

Guyfawkes; I agree with you - mostly they are from the foreign invaders/settlers who think they are still in Colonial India, where natives are supposed to be ignorant peasants...

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
21/07/2011 15:13

msg33...She is one of only two Lancs in the world still flying..the other one is in Canada......she has just had a new Main Wing spar and new Packard/Merlin engines,so hopefully she will stay flying for years to come..she actually lives with the rest of the spitfires/Hurricanes at RAF Conningsby Lincolnshire ....which is a main Typhoon station.The BBMF hanger is open to the public ,and you can be shown round the aircraft by highly experienced guides....Well worth a visit...

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
21/07/2011 15:19

Furthermore, you are clearly not bothering to read the links I supplied! For if you did, you would not even bother to get sillier by making comments like: "Any experienced pilot can perform barrel rolls at any speed the aircraft is cleared for. It's a 1g manoeuvre for crissakes!". Correct me but, I believe we were originally talking about doing display manouevres at Mach+ speeds, which you hotly denied was possible for the aircraft. The link I provided tells you of "barrel rolls" at speeds of Mach 1.2. Are you now saying one experiences only 1g when accelerating to Mach 1.2 and doing a barrel turn too? Eralier you were saying it is impossible for aircraft to do display manouevres at speeds above Mach1.

I think by not it is pretty obvious which one of us is ducking and diving! I also remind you that the moderators lately have been taking too seriously any abusive language or personal insults in this forum. So I suggest you do not keep up the abuse!

hattikins


Joined: 17/02/2008
Posts: 2793

Message Posted:
21/07/2011 15:21

It was a brilliant display yesterday, whatever speed they were travelling it looked bloody fast to me. Well done boys.

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
21/07/2011 15:25

hattikins;

You are absuletly right but the weather clearly did not help (started getting cloudy). These ones were the Turkish stars and their display was at relatively low speeds. What annoys me every year is the fact that they run out of the red and white smoke when it comes to drawing a heart in the sky at the end! I do not know if you noticed but it happened again yesterday...

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
21/07/2011 15:28

msg33 here she is at RAF Conningsby ,just for you..



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rhu0WnJX9Nc&feature=related

brother



Joined: 29/01/2010
Posts: 446

Message Posted:
21/07/2011 15:29

Here we go again (!) - for goodness' sake, it is j u s t a n a i r d i s p l a y.



I can't imagine what the benefits of a "yes you did, no you didn't" debate are.



It's easy: anyoone who cares can go an Google it - nobody needs to prove anything.



Put it away and take a chill pill - life is too short.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
21/07/2011 15:32

msg 38...Northrop F5...from the 1960s... They are getting on a bit ,perhaps they ran out of puff.....

Glasbury


Joined: 13/08/2010
Posts: 268

Message Posted:
21/07/2011 15:38

msg 39 - Thanks for that - it was great. The sound of those engines sends shivers down my spine !

Sid447


Joined: 15/05/2009
Posts: 141

Message Posted:
21/07/2011 16:07

Well done BigOz,



turn a simple constructive criticism of your original inaccurate post into a complete sequence of repetative posts squealing that you cannot be wrong along with accusations of abuse from me. I called you a bulls*itter it seems to be turning out quite a simple statement of fact by the looks of it; trying to accuse me of not being a pilot etc, etc.





As I said, but more simply put; best not argue with idiots, they just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
21/07/2011 17:26

Sid447; Just get back to your simulator and pretend to be a pilot you w___er! Nothing constructive about your so called criticisms - when there was no criticism due! You turned a simple news quote into a major debate on fighter aircraft ability. Proven wrong you are still farting with your mouth.

I fear you are probably one of those who feel a Turk cannot fly! I am not accusing you of anything. Anyone who can come up with so much garbage and respond by abuse to others' attempts to prove their point cannot be a pilot in my eyes! In fact I would not have you driving a bus. A pilot should always keep his cool and be more reserved - not hostile and abusive from the word "go" as was the case in your case.

Just scroll up and read carefully the posts I wrote and the responses you made - then tell me who is the idiot YOU are absolutely right - best not to argue with the idiots; so I rest my case! The rest is above for all to read

jay76


Joined: 17/07/2008
Posts: 532

Message Posted:
22/07/2011 09:19

Big oz



You sound like my flying instructor Richard cook currently teaching in Rochester airport in Kent,

Sid447


Joined: 15/05/2009
Posts: 141

Message Posted:
22/07/2011 14:57

Mssg 45



"..You sound like my flying instructor Richard cook currently teaching in Rochester airport in Kent..."



Hello jay76,



sadly there are more people with this kind of mentality than those with a nicer, gentler approach.

I knows no national boundries either; regardless of the racist accusations in the thread.



Giving people a bit of status or position either brings out the best or the worst in them.



Still, at the end of the day it makes it easier for the nice people to shine!