Rental Taxes, taxman calling

Anyfir2


Joined: 27/05/2008
Posts: 83

Message Posted:
16/08/2011 09:39

Just to let anyone interested know, the taxman has been knocking on doors asking people if they are renting. If they are they want to know how much they paid, who they rented from and which website they used. They had a print out of houses on owners direct, not sure if they had any others.

andrew4232



Joined: 04/07/2009
Posts: 1543

Message Posted:
16/08/2011 10:02

about time, it is income after all !

ang1706


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 570

Message Posted:
16/08/2011 12:33

I have nothing to worry about as Im all above board and Legal.



I was led to believe that your Tenants could not obtain Residency and a Driving Licence without a copy of the Tenancy Agreement, which was stamped by the Tax Office and I as Landlord had to pay about 100 lira for the privelige as well as 10% monthly tax on income.



I hope that the Government does clamp down on this and make sure that all people living there are Legal after all as Andrew4232 says its income after all.

dinner-dave


Joined: 14/08/2011
Posts: 48

Message Posted:
16/08/2011 13:20

message 3, more fool you ang.



we own 6 rental apartments and don't pay any tax - the trnc government has stuffed us enough times, so stuff them, i say.

paddywack


Joined: 04/05/2009
Posts: 959

Message Posted:
16/08/2011 13:24

Msg 4

Bit stupid posting a comment like that

dinner-dave


Joined: 14/08/2011
Posts: 48

Message Posted:
16/08/2011 13:30

whys that paddywack ?

paddywack


Joined: 04/05/2009
Posts: 959

Message Posted:
16/08/2011 13:32

All the government offices read the board

ttoli


Joined: 24/03/2007
Posts: 1172

Message Posted:
16/08/2011 13:44

Good Luck Dave, I chanced my arm for two years and was finally caught 2500 TL fine and the threat of Deportation if it happened again.

ang1706


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 570

Message Posted:
16/08/2011 13:48

Sorry Dave,

I like to sleep at night as you will be found out and your Tenants are obviously here illegally as cant get Residency without copy of Rental Agreement, the net WILL close in so we shall see who is the biggest fool then !!!!

neilhodgin


Joined: 28/10/2008
Posts: 256

Message Posted:
16/08/2011 14:13

they should knock on a couple of local builders doors and get them to pay there taxes,before scratching around a few rental properties, back to front as usual.

roblyn


Joined: 21/11/2008
Posts: 144

Message Posted:
16/08/2011 14:29

Two taxmen came calling.Asked if I was the owner. I said yes. Gave me a big smile and off they went.

Didn't even ask my name,didn't ask for any ID,proof of residency,purchase contract nothing.

I found that very odd.

dinner-dave


Joined: 14/08/2011
Posts: 48

Message Posted:
16/08/2011 14:35

my tenants are under strict instructions to say they own the place if anyone comes round "sniffing".

Jonesy299


Joined: 07/02/2009
Posts: 367

Message Posted:
16/08/2011 14:40

I rent a property during the holiday season and trust me you sleep a lot easier at night knowing that your taxes are paid and up to date (mine are). They have knocked on my door / asked previous guests about how much they pay etc and it is clear that owners will face punitive measures (big fines, cessation of utilities including electric) and, although I have not heard of anyone deported yet, it is clearly an option they have routinely used before.



Get yourself down the tax office (rear of the Girne hospital) and save yourself and your renters grief.

harita


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 1343

Message Posted:
16/08/2011 14:46

dinner-dave .. The next renter maybe a taxman .. Have you thought that one through ..

dinner-dave


Joined: 14/08/2011
Posts: 48

Message Posted:
16/08/2011 16:16

i dont rent to turks or TC's - once bitten and all that.........



so unless the taxman has got a brit working for them, i should be ok...........

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
16/08/2011 17:01

here we go again...............another one thats happy enough to buy cheap properties to let in trnc but not happy enough to pay duties.............apearently it's called being shafted by trnc government........where non-citizens are NOT allowed more then one property at a time!



your ex proffeission wasn't a lawyer by any chance?

Jonesy299


Joined: 07/02/2009
Posts: 367

Message Posted:
16/08/2011 17:43

I hate to say this Dinner-Dave mate but you are simply providing more and more public information about your tax avoidance measures and goading the authorities (and not all of the members on this site will be sympathetic to your approach). Inviting your renters to lie to government officials is likely to get them into hot water too.



No skin off my nose if you manage to evade enquiries / avoid taxes (people I know do similar albeit not on the same scale as you) but is it worth the risk now that it is public knowledge??

gallowgate


Joined: 08/06/2009
Posts: 164

Message Posted:
16/08/2011 17:51

We only started renting this year and whilst we were in TRnc the taxman knocked on the door. We agreed to go to the tax office when we are back in October to settle up but trouble is if you use Owners direct and you are using the place yourself it shows booked on the site. The taxman then thinks you have rented it out so it could be an interesting meeting at the tax office in October.

newscoop


Joined: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2197

Message Posted:
16/08/2011 18:01

dinner-dave;



Must be a record, just introduced yourself and already had me agreeing with Yorguzlu!

hydrokleen


Joined: 20/06/2009
Posts: 16

Message Posted:
16/08/2011 18:21

If you are renting and paying taxes then surely you are persumed to be running a buiness, therefore you should be granted a work permit ?

hydrokleen


Joined: 20/06/2009
Posts: 16

Message Posted:
16/08/2011 18:25

If you are renting and paying taxes then surely you are persumed to be running a buiness, therefore you should be granted a work permit ?

Jonesy299


Joined: 07/02/2009
Posts: 367

Message Posted:
16/08/2011 18:32

No - renting is similar to the UK model where as the owner you can rent (and pay 20% tax minus costs in most cases). As long as your total rental income does not exceed XXX? (don't know what the figure is) then it is not classed as a business nor are you subject to business tax.



The only downside with the TRNC rental model is that they do not allow for costs (eg running costs, house insurance, advertising fees, wear and tear etc etc as they do when you pay UK tax).

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
16/08/2011 18:35

Hydrokleen I am not sure of the details of TRNC regulation but rental income is usually considered 'unearned income' similar to interest on deposits in banks and thus does not in itself consitute 'working'.

Stonehousepub


Joined: 21/05/2009
Posts: 755

Message Posted:
16/08/2011 18:52

If rental income is your only income then you are not liable for tax.



Not sure if this counts for expats with pensions etc

Enchanted


Joined: 20/07/2008
Posts: 159

Message Posted:
16/08/2011 19:03

If you reside in the Uk and rent your TRNC holiday home, then you have the TRNC tax, and also the UK tax. There is no reciprical agreement between the two countries. So you pay twice!!.

The uk Government have indicated that they two are looking at rental sites to claw back unpaid tax.

Everbody wants their pound of flesh. !! hardly worth all the hard work is it

gallowgate


Joined: 08/06/2009
Posts: 164

Message Posted:
16/08/2011 19:06

I think the UK taxman takes into consideration costs plus any taxes that have been paid in the TRNC

ang1706


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 570

Message Posted:
16/08/2011 19:07

Yorguzlu,



I read and enjoy your posts and have to say that in a lot of cases i do not agree with your views, but in this case I strongly agree with you and are sure most other members do as well.



I left the UK to become an EXPAT as I was fed up with all the lies, conmen and general scamming by no narks and wanted a better life, I have worked hard and earned my crust by being straight.



I personally hope that all Rental Tax dodgers are caught along with those who disregard the TRNC Laws regarding Residency, the Government made a rod for its self when it granted a Residency Amnesty as a lot of 'EXPATS' had been choosing to ignore it. I hope the Government can devise a system to trackl down all these shirkers as it will make the TRNC a better place after all if these narks are allowed to get away with it for so long what else are they capable of doing!!



Yes I as I said earlier I am 100% legal and above board and have standards!

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
16/08/2011 19:11

Msg 27, you missed out cheap property

as I sure yorg will point out

snd1966


Joined: 10/06/2009
Posts: 353

Message Posted:
16/08/2011 19:15

The rental office here was very fair with my father who has owned a property since 1987 and msg 18 if you are staying in the house all you have to do is get your in and outs or like i did supply my parents passport numbers to prove when they were on the island and their electric bills to prove nobody was there. Due to honesty we got the interest knocked off.

Quarmby


Joined: 15/09/2008
Posts: 975

Message Posted:
16/08/2011 19:24

anq1706



How are you coping with all the "Lies, conmen and general scamming by no narks" in the TRNC.

Please don't tell me there aren't any.

ang1706


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 570

Message Posted:
16/08/2011 19:32

Philbailey,



I bought when property was very cheap thanks!



Quarmby,



At pres I am working away and are based in Beirut.

You are very correct that there lots of Scammers, Liars, Conmen,No Narks in TRNC and yes I had my fair share of them when first arriving but as you live in this lovely country you know who to trust and not to, also who is deserved of your attention and who is basically not.



It is good visiting TRNC a couyple of times a year as can see and gather info on places to go and not to also people to deal with and not to, unfortunately I would not trust an EXPAT in business for anything as previously I did and cost a lot of cash that was generally wasted.



there are a lot of people who have reinvented themselves in the TRNC sadly its a British thing as in Spain was exactly the same - must be the sun makes them liars!!

hetty


Joined: 31/07/2011
Posts: 167

Message Posted:
16/08/2011 19:38

You are all so gullible, dinner dave is winding you up and you are all spinning around like nutters

Woodspeckie


Joined: 25/01/2009
Posts: 2263

Message Posted:
16/08/2011 19:57

hetty. It doesn't take a phsycologist to sort out the winders, I wonder why so many people on here fall for the tripe the winders spout. So many of them on here lately, asking for advice for moving to NC when they have no intention of doing that they get people on here arguing about the good and the bad then you never hear from them again.

Jetski


Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 584

Message Posted:
16/08/2011 19:58

Dave..... did you ever work in Holland?

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
16/08/2011 19:59

Woodspeckie. Spot on, although some of them do 'lurk' around for a short time after.

HotHippo


Joined: 25/03/2010
Posts: 402

Message Posted:
16/08/2011 20:42

Dinner-Dave, your posts thus far lead me to believe that you have something in common with at least one real Celebrity Chef - I believe that her surname was Cradock.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
16/08/2011 20:46

What amazes me

what type of people believe it ?



that speaks volumes

Jonesy299


Joined: 07/02/2009
Posts: 367

Message Posted:
17/08/2011 11:07

Notwithstanding whether or not one of our posters is confusing matters by 'spoofing' the thread is valid as are the concerns and advice given.



The tax office is committed to recovering tax from both long term and holiday renters. They are gathering data and proof and individuals are already being fined with more draconian punitive measures available to those who try and cover their tracks (and they will make examples) - and a donkey can work out which villas are being rented especially holiday rentals!



In the spirit of using this Forum to spread useful advice please accept that this is not a judgement against those who are not currently paying tax on rentals but simply a heads up that the tax collecters are actively investigating.

dippersgirl



Joined: 04/05/2010
Posts: 795

Message Posted:
17/08/2011 11:16

mess 15



Don't you think taxmen have heard of C44? Unless all your member details are bogus, it would'nt take much time to find you!!

Did you do this sort of thing in England too? And the moaned about all the benefit scroungers I bet

Diogenes


Joined: 12/11/2008
Posts: 139

Message Posted:
17/08/2011 12:20

Msg 24 Stonehousepub,



I am renting accommodation and it is my only income, however, I am still paying tax.



Where did you find this information?

Jonesy299


Joined: 07/02/2009
Posts: 367

Message Posted:
17/08/2011 12:29

I think Stonehousepub may be confused with UK tax laws (i.e. if your overall income is below the minimum tax threshold then you don't pay tax).



This is not the case in TRNC - it is a flat 10% rate whether you are a resident, pensioner, non-pensioner or a squillionaire.

dippersgirl



Joined: 04/05/2010
Posts: 795

Message Posted:
02/09/2011 12:11

Where do you pay? Do you pay monthly annually?

Deniz1


Joined: 28/07/2009
Posts: 3829

Message Posted:
02/09/2011 12:58

You pay at the tax office monthly

Stonehousepub


Joined: 21/05/2009
Posts: 755

Message Posted:
02/09/2011 14:22

msg 40



You have to fill in a form at the tax office, they will need a copy of the rental agreement, muhtars letter and a confirmation from the employment office that you are not registered as being employed anywhere.



They cannot tax your rental income if it is your only income...

Anyfir2


Joined: 27/05/2008
Posts: 83

Message Posted:
02/09/2011 17:56

For short term rental I think you will find you have to pay 10% of the income you with no allowances. We have certainly never been asked for a rental agreement, muhtars letter or confirmation from the employment office.

Stonehousepub


Joined: 21/05/2009
Posts: 755

Message Posted:
02/09/2011 19:45

msg 45



I give up.... Go to the tax office on Monday morning and ask for a tax immunity form they are at the same desk where rental tax is paid.



I've been renting properties for the last six years...... If rent is your only income and you can prove this then you do not pay tax !!

joandjelly


Joined: 24/02/2008
Posts: 2953

Message Posted:
02/09/2011 20:00

Hi Stonehousepub may I ask when you refer to "your only income" do you mean from an employment point of view? The reason I ask is that my friend has an apartment here which is rented long term, she does not live here and has no employment here. Her only source of "income" is interest paid on funds invested. Should she therefore be exempt from rental tax? If so, I wonder why the rental agents do not inform their clients of this.

Stonehousepub


Joined: 21/05/2009
Posts: 755

Message Posted:
02/09/2011 21:00

msg 47



Hi jj



Your friend would need to be a resident of the TRNC to be eligible for rental tax exemption.

cyprusairsoft



Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 2066

Message Posted:
08/09/2011 18:23

could some one advise me of whats needed for holiday rental for friends who only come out 2 weeks a year

they would like to cover costs of running house for year

would like to know what docs are required by the owner and can a friend do it for them thanks for any info

is there a standard rental agreement and does it have to be in turkish?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
08/09/2011 18:44

re msg 1



http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/70645.asp ( msg 64) ...



I DID say......

leethemille



Joined: 16/01/2009
Posts: 296

Message Posted:
13/09/2011 11:32

Hi



Now that we finally have electric i am going to be renting my apartment out but will not be back in TRNC until next summer. Does anyone know if I can set this up from uk then pay my tax when I come out?



Please help as I want everything to be above board and legal.

the butler


Joined: 22/06/2007
Posts: 1958

Message Posted:
13/09/2011 14:11

Hi leethemile,



If you are going to use an agency to let your property, then you can do this from the UK. If you are going to use a web site for lettings, how will you get someone to clean and hold keys etc? As regards the 10% rental tax, this has to be paid by the 17th of the following month at the tax office and it is 10% of the gross amount of rent and not net amount. If you are going for a long term rental, the tenants will need a stamped contract from the tax office before they can obtain their residency stamp. Hope this information helps.





The butlers wife

leethemille



Joined: 16/01/2009
Posts: 296

Message Posted:
14/09/2011 12:14

Thanks for that. I rent it myself from here and just pay someone there for cleaning, keys left in a keysafe. I might ha ve to make a visit out there to register and see if I can set up a way of paying!

britvic



Joined: 05/09/2008
Posts: 3039

Message Posted:
14/09/2011 12:19

Is it legal to rent out a house that has a memorandum or mortgage on it? I suppose technically the house isn't yours until you have a Kocan?

Jonesy299


Joined: 07/02/2009
Posts: 367

Message Posted:
14/09/2011 14:32

It is more problematic with holiday rentals as you would have to draw up contracts every time you holiday rent and take down the office etc etc.



I simply spoke to the desk (luckily he was an english speaking TC neighbour who I never realised worked for the tax office!) - informed them that the taxes were for holiday rentals and they allowed me to fill out the tax return with all of my rentals listed (even future rentals / estimates / 'guesstimates') for the year, totalled it up and then paid 10% on that.



I will then simply pay my taxes next year using the same procedure and sleep soundly at night. Simples...

cyprusairsoft



Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 2066

Message Posted:
02/10/2011 15:33

how on earth do you total up estimated guests ?

Jonesy299


Joined: 07/02/2009
Posts: 367

Message Posted:
03/10/2011 14:55

Use average booking numbers (been doing it for a while / we have regular customers now so have accurate estimates).

Jonesy299


Joined: 07/02/2009
Posts: 367

Message Posted:
03/10/2011 14:58

Plus.. as I pay my tax mid summer I have a pretty good idea of the numbers as most people have either visited already or have booked their hols for the remaining holiday period. As I said before... simples!

suehowlittle


Joined: 31/10/2010
Posts: 1202

Message Posted:
03/10/2011 15:37

I am sure that if the expats had a level playing field they would be more inclined to pay the taxes on rentals, did any of you read Cyprus Today where a Brit had rented out his place, never had a cent in rent and was told by tax officials that it made no difference - he would still have to pay the tax? How can they make someone pay 10% on no income??? AND I SERIOUSLY HOPE THEY ARE READING THIS FORUM!! Then they might realise how ridiculous they have been on this matter and drop it.



I found this most alarming and will say that I would NEVER rent my apartment out - neither to holidaymakers or to anyone living here. I would rather just lock it up and leave it empty. Besides, I would never be able to cope with having cigarette burns on furniture etc. I would go absolutely ballistic so it is obviously not for me.

karakum5c



Joined: 18/03/2008
Posts: 1021

Message Posted:
03/10/2011 16:13

If we all dont pay tax, we end up like Greece with the country falling about our ears.



Would the same people so against paying their share here behave the same in the uk...............I THINK NOT !

Jonesy299


Joined: 07/02/2009
Posts: 367

Message Posted:
03/10/2011 16:47

Totally agree with the recent posters - if you earn income that is liable for tax then pay it (simple as).

TimothyCadman


Joined: 13/12/2007
Posts: 1040

Message Posted:
04/10/2011 00:18

"if you earn income that is liable for tax then pay it "

Then I suggest that the UK tax man sits daily in EVERY restaurant in the UK to watch how many tips the waiter(ess) takes in one day and taxes them accordingly; as it is the law that EVERY Employee MUST declare ALL tips so that a tax demand can be raised.

As this is technically infeasible the taxman doesn't bother.

In the TRNC it is also technically infeasible for the taxman to collect taxes.

Also, if I had a property in the TRNC and rented it out for 11 months of the year, and using it for myself 1 month a year, and the renter pays into my bank account in the UK; how is the TRNC taxman going to enforce me to pay tax? The only real way is to wait at arrivals at Ercan, Girne Port and all the South to North crossing points waiting for me to enter the TRNC. If they have the time, and manpower, they are very sad!

micklark


Joined: 18/06/2011
Posts: 75

Message Posted:
04/10/2011 08:31

Hello message 52 butlers wife, hope youm dont mind me correcting a bit of what you wrote as it reads a bit misleading

*the tenants will need a stamped contract from the tax office before they can obtain their residency stamp.



You need to have a contract to take to the tax office, they dont supply them but they will copy and stamp the one you bring in with you and it will be kept on your file, they also now need a photocopy of the owners passport photopage

Jonesy299


Joined: 07/02/2009
Posts: 367

Message Posted:
04/10/2011 15:04

Tim - I think the point I was trying to make is not about how to avoid paying tax because it is difficult to enforce whilst risking significant penalties if you do get caught out ... but to pay it if it is due (doh!)