what do these embargos mean to north cyprus

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
13/10/2007 01:44

hi there guys

ive decided to write a post on what these embargos mean and affect n cyprus



these embargos placed on north cyprus dont have no authority of any u.n security council resolution under article 41 of the u.n charter, but due to the misunderstood un resolution 186 passed on 4th of march 1964 the Greek Cypriots have been able to legitimise their status as the sole recognised authority in Cyprus and effectively deny Turkish Cypriots their legal, political and basic human rights.

The u.n resolution 186 was the u.n plan to stop all the violence caused by the gc coup in dec 1963

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
13/10/2007 02:03

sorry pressed post



Resolution referred to working with the “Government of Cyprus”, which at that time was 100% staffed with Greek Cypriots.

Greek Cypriots have used this as the sole “legitimate” authority on the island, even though this contradicts with the 1960 Constitution of Cyprus where both Turkish and Greek Cypriots are politically equal



what does this mean

the n cyprus postal administration has been denied any status within the Universal Postal Union and turkish cypriots do not have internationally recognised addresses or telephone numbers. All mail and calls to and from north cyprus must go via Turkey, as a result the entire 220,000 citizens of North Cyprus are relegated to a PO Box, with all mail to and from north cyprus having to go via Mersin 10, Turkey

Turkish Cypriots are not allowed to participate or host international teams, or sporting/cultural events In April 2005 the cyprus fa prevented Huddersfield Town from playing a friendly match in north cyprus. This was in spite of the English Football Association having no objection to this game and overlooks the historical right of Turkish Cypriots to their own football federation which dates back to 1955.

In 2004, Greek Cypriots prevented the Olympic torch from travelling into North Cyprus as part of its global journey before reaching Athens for the 2004 Olympic Games

29 April 2004 the e.u passed the EU Green Line Directive to establish direct trade between North and South Cyprus. Since then north cyprus has promoted trade enabling south cyprus produced goods to be sold in the North and for commercial vehicles registered in the South to operate in the North yet to date south cyprus has failed to to do the same

Embargoes have meant the North Cyprus cannot be recognised as a candidate for loans by the International Monetary Fund or the World Bank

in 2004 the e.u pledged a 259 million euros (£176m) aid package for Turkish Cypriots to help bolster the economy, this aid has been consistently blocked by greek cypriots who continue to benefit as one of the most subsidised countries in the world

Many countries do not recognise a passport issued by the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, forcing many Turkish Cypriots to obtain adocument from either Turkey or from the Republic of Cyprus so they can travel around the world, which adds cost and time, and loss of identity

Greek Cypriots use the number of Turkish Cypriots holding Republic of Cyprus passports as a tool to claim they are the only legitimate authority on the island but fail to add that it is through the Greek Cypriot imposed embargoes that Turkish Cypriots are forced to apply for these

i hope this enlightned a few people on what the turkish cypriots have been through and still are going through and these embargos have to stop!!!!

sorry for the long post

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
13/10/2007 02:15

Excellent post, Erkan.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
13/10/2007 02:59

erkan,do you worrry sometimes that your brain may explode.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
13/10/2007 12:36

Thanks ukturk



It's a disgrace. The TC's were the ones who were originally persecuted and they continue to pay a heavy price.

In marketing, I believe there is a maxim that whomever gets their brand/product in to the marketplace first, is the one who is most likley to hold that premier position. The GC's through their vociferous marketing have claimed that first position and hence have dictated the play.

On the positive note, the tide seems to be turning and you must be proud that the TRNC has survived and is still going strong

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
13/10/2007 18:13

hi there guys

dodger i have no fear of my haed exploding because all the infomation i collect i save on my comp so i dont have to think about it

i found some more case studies where the gc's try and stop north cyprus in prospering as a independant country

Norwegian company Trygve Tonjum Import AS for a long time had been importing potatoes from north cyprus the Norwegian agricultural authorities accepted certificates issued by the Turkish Cypriot authorities.

then in 1997 as a result of constant protests from the gc's the norwegian ministry of foreign affairs, in a letter dated 9 April 1997, told its Ministry of Agriculture that only certificates issued only by the “Republic of Cyprus” would be accepted for imports from Cyprus that required health certificates. and certificates issued by turkish cyprus would not be reconized

When hsbc bought out turkish bank demirbank in 2002 and they announced they were opening branches in n cyprus a senior manager from the greek cypriot central bank went to London to pressure the british financial services Authority to stop hsbc's operations in the north but this one protest the greeks did not win even thou they are still protesting about it

even with the only mixed villiage the greek government prevent both greek cypriots and visiting tourists from buying anything from turkish cypriots people that purchase such goods are arrested and fined or jailed by the greek cypriot authorities.

20 March 2001 the greek cypriot police stopped the car of greek cypriot theofilos papapetru on the Larnaca-Pyla road and found four cases of fish worth 337 Cyprus Pounds in his possession the fish was confiscated and Papapetreu was put under arrest for two days.

27 October 2000 British expatriate robert jagger who lived in paralimni south cyprus was arrested by greek cypriot police for shopping in a Turkish Cypriot owned shop in Pyla they were arrested and then taken to larnaca airport and fined 30 cypriot pounds

you see even people who are not turkish cypriot are being targetted with these embargos

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
15/10/2007 20:11

Uturk,

perhaps even some of the GC's are seing the foolishness of their obstinate stance? Despite this I still think that Papa will be re-elected.



Death chamber: will the telephone ring?

By Nicos A Rolandis



IN MY letter of resignation from the post of Minister of Foreign Affairs dated September 21, 1983 and addressed to then President Spyros Kyprianou in the wake of the rejection by our side of the “Indicators” Initiative of UN Secretary-General Perez de Cuelliar, I wrote inter alia:

“We have encouraged the UN Secretary-General to proceed with his initiative and try to resolve the intractable and dangerous deadlock we are facing. The Secretary-General on August 8 [1983] came up with some ideas on certain aspects of the Cyprus problem…



Immediately after, we started wavering. There was a lot of talk about a trap, about partitionist tendencies, about national hazards – which in reality did not exist. The Secretary-General, who was until then our good friend, became our enemy – that was the fate of all those who were implicated with our problem in the past. However, how shall we ever manage to find a solution? Through prayers? Through requests for help addressed to God? Through resolutions? Or shall we most probably be faced one day with the final partition of our country (if not with something worse)… The President of the Republic of Greece Mr Constantinos Karamanlis in his official speech, during your state visit to Greece last April, said a few things which may have brought about some unpleasant memories or conclusions. What he spoke however, was the truth. If we listen to what he said, there will be probably those who will mediate with Ankara [for a solution]. Otherwise we shall be left alone with our slogans, our rhetoric, our patriotic oration and with the Turkish occupation.”



I resigned from my ministerial post… Twenty-four years have elapsed since then, but if I had to write that letter today, I would have written exactly the same things. Fifty-five days after my letter of resignation, we had the Unilateral Declaration of Independence of the Turkish Cypriot “state” (November 15, 1983). Mr Kyprianou would not believe me when I warned him that I had information about the spinoff of the “state” if we rejected the “Indicators”. He had his own information from Romanian President Ceausescu that such a thing could not happen. In exactly the same way Makarios would not believe back in 1963, that his attempt to amend the Constitution would be doomed and that it would cause the disaster which ensued. Makarios also would never believe or accept, despite the so many warnings that he had, that a Greek coup was imminent in 1974 and he failed to take the necessary precautions. Similarly Tassos Papadopoulos does not believe today that his policy of the past four and a half years on Cyprus has led to partition. He will realise it when we tumble deep into the abyss.



During all these years, in parallel to our “storied” political judgment, we had a number of politicians who proved to be champions in the field of leading the people into a lethargic state, through a series of monotonous, senseless, lukewarm, faded, “patriotic” phrases about resistance, bastions, strongholds and struggle. And the people also proved to be champions in swallowing the above preaching as long as favouritism, graft and benefits from power were on their side. Of course, when things turned sour, the politicians ran for cover in foreign embassies to save their skin, while the people paid the bitter price… and God help Cyprus…

It gets really tragic when one considers carefully where we ended up, by rejecting over the years seven initiatives on Cyprus: The Anglo-American-Canadian Plan and six UN Plans, all of them unanimously endorsed by the Security Council. All the above Plans were characterised by us as “monstrosities”, “cursed” and “leading to

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
15/10/2007 23:49

bradus

thanks for the posting this minister is stating some facts but if you decifer this letter it is bullsh.t i tell you why basically he is saying he and his government should have given just a bit of rights to the turks (whats this dangleing the carot in front of the donkey) turkish cypriots want equal rights not to be a minority like what he is saying "We are left with a 40,000 strong Turkish army of occupation, which would have departed and been replaced by a Greek and a Turkish contingent of 950 and 650 men respectively." and the government to be split with more greek cypriot seats than the turks.



now he is pissed off because north cyprus is starting to flourish quote

The ECHRis about to legalise the Properties Compensation Committee in the north. A contact group between the European Parliament and the “Turkish state” has been created. Elected Turkish Cypriot parliamentarians have been officially admitted as observers by the Council of Europe



A ferry link has started between Syria and the occupied port of Famagusta. “Direct trade” with the Turkish Cypriots is in the wings, it is supported by everybody in the European Union



so basically he is saying that he blames his past government for not giving the turks some crumbs and shuting them up and now they would not be having this problem with n cyprus (slowly being reconized) because there would not be no north cyprus just cyprus with the greeks having major role in the running of cyprus and turks having a minority postion

now in my eyes how can we accept what he is saying because basically he wants the same as what happend in the past and belive you me they have tried this and it did not work (when they nearly all the turks got wiped out)

and how can n cyprus trust this again being a minority

so this bloke along with all the ministers of south cyprus can take a long walk along a short pier

the only way forward for me is two seperate states run by two seperate governments but the common local people to do as they please in the seperate states so no human rights are broken and also all embargos

lifted!!!! 50/50

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
16/10/2007 00:47

Uturk I posted this in response to your posting about the effects of the embargos because I feel that it gives proof that slowly but surely these embargoes are being lifted and the GC's are no longer assurred of the total support of other countries. It shows the gradual but continuous progress being made despite the GC opposition to anything TC. It is not about the mistakes of the past but more about the development and future of he TRNC. Next stop DIRECT FLIGHTS.

davidoff


Joined: 21/04/2007
Posts: 438

Message Posted:
16/10/2007 01:24

Hi all,



PAPS HAS BEEN DIGGING HIS OWN GRAVE FOR A WHILE NOW!!



WITH ALL THESE EMBARGOS AND PROTESTS FROM HIS GOVERNMENT- LET THEM SELF DESTRUCT AS YOU ARE STARTING TO SEE THE CRACKS ALREADY!!



Just be patient - as they are not doing themselves any justice in the bad and truthful way in which they are slowly being portrayed to the public eyes!!



Take care all-D

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
16/10/2007 01:28

hiya bradus thanks for your post

you are right in what you are saying slowly n cyprus it is getting more reconized and hopefully some of these embargos are getting lifted but n cyprus has to be fully reconized as a republic for n cyprus to be realesed from their shackels

and your right no point on dwelling on past mistakes but i can only imagine if the greek government did not put n cyprus in this mess in the first place n cyprus would not be 20 years or so behind their greek neighbours and now finnaly being heard

like you said next step direct flights fingers crossed mate (i suppose 1 step at a time)

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
16/10/2007 01:49

hi davidoff

you are right mate

he is well and trully in the grave all he comes out with is bullsh.t and as you said everybody is seeing straight through the bull and his party in house arguments, maybe the opposition party could do a better job by the sounds they are making but personally i dont think so (would like to belive) i still think their strings are still attached to greece (the puppet master)

the whole world is starting to see how the gc government are like and ok what happened has happened but how the turkish cypriot people are being treated todate is a disgrace being deprived of their basic human rights

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
02/11/2007 02:12

hi there guys

it looks likke there is a glimmer oflight at the very of the tunnell concerning

the embargos and the u.n

germany which has good relations with turkey and n cyprus are taking over the leadership of the e.u in jan have started working on the lifting of the isolations on North Cyprus

The head of the EU commission`s task force for turkish cyprus, Andrew Rasbash went to the island in order to supervise the implementation of economic aid regulation adopted by the union. After having meting with the turkish and greek sides rasbash will hold a press conference Jan the 15th

and also the eu commissioner for enlargement Olli Rehn, said that the commissioners will start to work on a direct trade regulation which is good both for Turkish Cypriots and European Union.

so lets hope and keep our fingers crossed for jan the 15th for some good news

regards

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
02/11/2007 02:37

Let's hope so. Crosses fingers, touches wood, burns some olive leaves (keeps those evil spirGCits away).

Littlenige



Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 3594

Message Posted:
02/11/2007 08:34

What hurts morh high taxes on imports or embargoes ?



40%+ tax on cars ?

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
02/11/2007 11:37

Interesting point Littlenige. Could you say a little more about your thoughts on this. I know very little about import taxes, how this all works and what it means. Do you feel it is better to have embargoes?

Milou


Joined: 15/10/2007
Posts: 425

Message Posted:
02/11/2007 12:30

Hi UKturk



How fasninating to watch the "balance of power" shifting - what interesting times we live in! - I am hooked!!!!!



Regards

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
02/11/2007 13:12

hi guys

the high taxes has not really got a signifacance to the embargos let me explain lets say the car tax is exactly the same as turkey 40% on the new car price and cyprus has the same tax levels plus they are stuck in the middle because they can import the cars that have factories in turkey like fiat/tofas - opel - ford - vw but the thing the cars are left hand drive so thats no good for cyprus so thats why they import from china etc

the up side of this thou the cars in turkey and in cyprus depreciate at a less rate than anywhere in the world for example i bought a fiat palio in 2000 for 5k sterling and sold it 2 years later for 4600

things like electrical taxes again are the same in turkey thats why its better to buy turkey produced products like beko-vestel-regal-arcelik and even sony now (they got their own manufacturing factory in istanbul) where the tax is a bit less to promote the economy in turkey and in north cyprus

when the embargos finally get lifted the tax rates in north cyprus wont alter because they are in line with turkeys tax system which is implemented by the north cyprus government but at least north cyprus will be able to do buisness with other countries and this will promote more healthy competion in the retail sector and will benifit the consumer like you and me



p.s milou you are right the power is slowly shifitig in north cyprus favour about time we have been waiting for 30 years to happen but as long as we dont take 2 steps forward and three steps back by jeopadising north cyprus in giving into the greeks and south cyprus thats why the motherland turkey has to stand their ground and not give in

long live turkey and north cyprus and the people who live and love the countries

regards to all

Milou


Joined: 15/10/2007
Posts: 425

Message Posted:
02/11/2007 14:14

UKturk



Two steps forward and three steps back wil never happen - the sand is moving too fast - trust in that sand!



regards

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
02/11/2007 14:23

milou

you are right its no ordinary sand we are dealing with its more like quick sand for these greeks and i hope most of them if not all of them sink with their mentalality!!!!!!!

take care

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
02/11/2007 16:16

If anyone's interested, I'm currently reading a novel called, 'Love and Death' in Cyprus by Harry Blackley. It's sympathetic to the TCs and historically/factually accurate. I've just started to read it so can't say much more. It's available in Turkish and English.



Quote: 'Finally comes a story of the struggle of the Turkish Cypriot people through the life of Leyla Ozkara, only child of the 'muktar' or mayor of a small town in the northwest of the beautiful island in the Eastern Mediterranean.'



You can buy it from anywhere in the world through paypal. The address: http://www.lovedeathcyprus.com

Let me know if you do buy one and when you've read it!!!





Erkan, you superhero, you're the hero on this forum with all your detailed and extremely useful information.



Best to all

Donna

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
02/11/2007 16:24

Just read an overview Donna. It looks like a really good read. I am going to put it on my wish list. I have to read the other book first

Let us know any interesting points that come up

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
02/11/2007 16:36

Hi Erkan



I recently read an article in which Dentas (sh) was very pleased that Gul had recently been quoted as implying that the North and South should be seen as two separate states. Clearly he was pleased that Turkey continues to hold firm on the Cyprus issue.

Of course, so much depends on Turkey, but no one seems absolutely certain that Turkey won't back down over Cyprus.

Erkan, I would love your views on the following:



What are the factors which make Turkey stand firm on the Cyprus issue? In other words ,what holds Turkeys commitment in place?



Secondly, What would cause Turkey to concede Cyprus to the Greek Cypriots? In other words, What factors/events would need to happen for Turkey to abandon Cyprus?

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
02/11/2007 17:14

hi donna and mark

i took a look at the link you provided it looks like a good book mu two favourite subjects cyprus and love!!!!! L.O.L

donna thanks for your kind and lovely words you are stating to make me blush!

people are going to think im paying you or you got a soft spot for me!! L.O.L

what do you think mark!!!!! (only pulling your leg)



ok mark my view on your question

firstly the reason turkey stands firm is because turkey through out the years going back to the early years of the ottoman empire always was an extened arm of turkey and never belonged to anyone other than when the turks leased cyprus out to the british empire and they never gave it back, turkey has always said that the turkish cypriot people are our people and wont let nothing ever happen to them again and turkey being a very proud nation they will stand by their word even if it hampers their chances of e.u membership and if it cripples their own economy by funding north cyprus with aid etc also there is a big population of mainland turks that have migrated in to cyprus i.e army family-buisness people to help the economy - uni students - even thou some of the turkish cypriot younger generation dont like the mainlanders they feel they are show offs i constantly have disagrrements with these kids because they are uneducated i tell them if it was not for the mainland turks you either would not be here or you would be talking greek so this generation has to be taught about our history



answer to you second question

not on this gods green earth will turkey ever ever ever concede to the greeks

even thou turkey owe millons to the u.s in grants and their economy sometimes slacks because they help with aid to cyprus that still wont mean nothing to turkey, the government always says and i like this comment

(translated from turkish) would you leave and forget you brothers and sisters

to deal with your enemys and your foes so why should we leave our brothers and sisters to deal with these people who tried to wipe them out!!!!!

great saying dont you think!!!!!!

turkey has been given many attempts to join the e.u at the expense of cyprus and never done so even if it means them never joining and watching these other weak countries that have not got nothing to offer like bulgaria-romania - south cyprus etc etc (sorry to any people who are from these countries apart from the south) joining the e.u before turkey

anyway ive gone on to much sorry

warm regards to you both

E.U.S.T my new alter ego name (mark ask donna what it means she will answer you) L.O.L

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
02/11/2007 17:25

Thanks Erkan - yes it is a great saying. Turkey is very passionate about it's breathen. Wish Britain was more like this but we have become an individulistic society.



I think Donna loves your passion for the TRNC, your knowldege and your volunteering of so much info. I think Donna wants you to run for presidency in the next TRNC elections. Have I got it right Donna?





Donna, what does E.U.S.T mean?

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
02/11/2007 18:08

Hi ILC,

It means EUSTLESS. LOL!



Yes I think Erkan should run for presidency as long as he's secular, like Ataturk. Now THERE'S a compliment.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
02/11/2007 22:45

good news,or potentially good news regarding the embargos.i have been reading about the german involvement for a few months now,lets hope that they are allowed a big say in the problems and are not gagged.i believe that the germans do have good relations with the turks and northern cyprus anyway.what about the u.s.a. are they waiting in the wings to pounce.

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
03/11/2007 17:42

More good news for the TRNC, potentially!! (I also posted this on the direct flights thread).



'According to Kibris Newspaper, the High Court in UK gave permission to Cyprus Turkish Airways and the holiday orginisation CTA to file a case against the government's decision to refuse direct flights to Ercan because it was against Chicago Convention. The objection will be based on the fact that the convention has been misinterpreted or wrongly understood. The British government has already committed herself to direct flight to Ercan if there are no legal impediments. Cyprus Turkish Airways have announced that they will file their objections in the High Court very soon.'

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
03/11/2007 22:09

hi there guys

i read this articale too and its good news i think

the reason why im saying this because the aticale confused me a bit let me explain and see if it dont confuse you guys or is it just me

the british government has publically said that they welcome direct flights and support any petition and protesting put towards the chicargo convention who in turn have not lifted the ban on direct flights by all the complaing of the greeks due to the embargos they set on us and still have not made ercan an international airport

according to the paper the high court is allowing kthy and cta lodge a writ against the government (who want direct flights) because they see it as against the laws of the chicargo convention this is the same commitee that they are the only ones that can give a airport international status because even if you fly from frankfurt with kthy it still stops in turkey

so this makes me wonder who are telling the truth the british government-the chicago convention or the paper

what are your views donna,mark,paul and the rest of you guys

regards

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
03/11/2007 23:12

Hi Erkan,

If it's true,,, I would interpret this to mean that the IC may be prepared to allow direct flights (starting from the UK?) to the TRNC. After the decision makers finish their course of literacy classes, it will become possible. Because having looked at it properly this time, they will find (incredibly) that, YES, they have been dumbos all these years and have after all, COMPLETELY misunderstood/misinterpreted the Chigaco Convention.



But this is just my opinion.

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
04/11/2007 00:31

ILC, it's not short for EUSTLESS



It means: E=Erkan U=Uk S=Superhero T=Turk (Is that right, Erkan?)

McSteviet



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1089

Message Posted:
04/11/2007 00:51

My view for what it's worth, is that even if direct flights are allowed, it will take quite some time for there to be enough competition to bring down the price of flights.



You only have to look on the London/South Africa routes and that is a busy route, but it appears that the main players keep the prices in line with each other, so I say don't hold your breath. Would be great just to get direct flights, but I don't see cheaper costs coming very soon.



Hope I'm wrong.



Mc

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
04/11/2007 00:55

Even if prices don't come down, at least the flight itself will be shorter, in theory that is, and hopefully in practice!!!

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
04/11/2007 01:16

hi there guys

i come across this poem written by a young tukish cypriot

and thought it would be fitting to this subject even thou its sad!!!!!!!!!!!!

have a read and tell me what you think



TURKISH CYPRIOT PAIN

Across the miles lies a land, With deep blue seas and golden sand.

Olive trees outline the sky, The big brown mountains are waving ‘hi.’

The breeze blows gently across your face, The grass sways quietly, it leaves no trace.

This is North Cyprus, a piece of me, my land, It is my everything; you’ll soon understand.

This piece of me I endeavour to preach, Is slowly slipping out of reach. Hardship & restrictions put into place, Slowly puts a tear on my face.

I’m not alone in this state and bother, I witness the tears of a newly borns' mother.

Recognise our rights, I demand it, this is inhumane, The EU, South Cyprus, and the United Nations are to blame!

Broken promises to a crippled nation, We pray to God for our salvation.

We are losing our youth to foreign lands, We demand the right to work, with our two hands.

Remove the embargoes, recognise our rights, Permit the Turkish Cypriot talent, to shine bright.

I hope you have understood our pain, how we suffer, Life's too short let us cooperate with each other.

davidoff


Joined: 21/04/2007
Posts: 438

Message Posted:
04/11/2007 11:32

Hi ukturk,



GREAT POEM- ANy chance you can send it to Gordan Brown at no 10 downing street!!

Anythings worth a try???



Take care-D

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
05/11/2007 16:04

hi there d

yeah i thought it was a good poem, you are right we should send it to mr gb wonder if he will take any notice of it

probabley not!!!!!

never mind as long as we take notice and learn thats the main thing!!!!

regards

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
05/11/2007 17:58

Agree with Mcsteviet. Prices won't come down unless there is competition. Not sure if a British Carrier will fly that route just yet as they may not be brave enough to risk their image. In any case, the existing carriers should reduce their fees. because, my understanding is that most fuel and aeroplane wear and tear happens on lift off and take off. Obviously, with direct flights there is only one take off and landing.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
05/11/2007 18:16

Just flicked through the Michael Stephen book. It makes very interesting reading. I think he may have exagerated some points, however when you read it, it makes you very angry. I think the UK and US have not done themselves proud at all. In fact, the UK as a guatantor has been a complete joke. I know we didn't have much money in the 50' and 60' haveing been crippled by ww11 and paying off the US, but we allowed Cyprus to sink in to the abyss.



Just as I thought, the US and UK's main interest has been in the UK bases, particularly the high intelligence base high in the Troodos. I knew the UK had an intelligence base and this book confirms it. It seems like the UK play off the two sides against each other. Here is a quote from the book:



"The facilities at the bases are used by the Americans as well as the British and they are both anxious to preserve them. It is arguable that neither the US nor the UK actually want a Cyprus settlement because they can at present threaten to recognise the TRNC if the Greek Cypriots become difficult."



The bases provide work for 3,500 GC's and contribute 60 million to the GC economy.



In any case, the book reveals as to how unbelievably the GC's have masterminded one of the greatest PR stunts in history. The TC's have been really stitched.



I wish the author would update the book to include 2004 annan plan.

martin73


Joined: 06/10/2007
Posts: 24

Message Posted:
05/11/2007 20:13

I have been told (by a property agent so taken with a pinch of salt) that alot of the airlines have already bought landing rights to ercan so when the time comes they might all want to fly there. I expect it will be cheaper for them to land there than larnaca and paphos.



Although slighty off the subject here, does anyone know anything about the other airport in north cyprus - i passed it when i went to bafra - could this open too?

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
05/11/2007 20:22

Hi Martin



I think the other airport is more military in nature. It might be that the US have flown military missions out of this airport (again may be hearsay)

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
05/11/2007 21:35

hi martin and every1 else

the other airport is a military airport and is used as a back up airport to ercan

ive flown in to there many times in the past over (10 years ago) and yes the americans secretly (cyprus worst kept secret) pay the cypriot government to use it

also guys the reason why flights are expensive is not because of the wear and tear of the plane due to take off and landing it is because the carrier has to pay a surcharge to the turkish aviation authority to use their airports i.e izmir-dalaman-antayla this is what bumps the prices up on tickets and due to this main reason if their is direct flights the average ticket will drop at least £100 on every ticket

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
05/11/2007 22:00

didnt realise that we (britain) had a base in the troodos mountains,but then i am learning new stuff evry day regarding the "cyprus problem".how accessible is the michael stephen book that you refer to i love cyprus.if direct flights do come about,it would be the biggest kick up the arse the greeks have had for a long time.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
05/11/2007 23:16

hi all

im glad you are enjoying the book exactly what im saying the u.s and u.k have got a big army role (worst kept secret) there why do you think the u.s gives unbelivable amounts of money (under the table) to turkey and to pass on to the kktc,

also as usual the british mess up everything the guatantor situation as an example the british were the middle men if the turksih side had problems it was dealt with the turkish authoritys and the same for the greek side, but if there troubles with the turks and greeks the british would step this did not happen when the greeks started enois and the turks pleaded with the u.k to do something and they just stayed in their bases and watched

thers a well known story amongst the turkish cypriots when the turkish army came to help the cypriots the army was going through the land and they would come accross a british base and the top brass would come out and say you cant cross over this part of the land this is british soil so the turkish army would just go round it instead of through it even if it was 20 mile out of the way just shows they did not want to help not one bit



dodger is quite hard to find but ilc got it off the internet where i think there were only two copies just do a w.w.w search for the cyprus problem by michael stephen worth reading mate

regards

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
05/11/2007 23:33

thanks erkan ,trust you are well.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
06/11/2007 11:23

hi paul

no probs mate

im very well thanks just planning on where to go for my birthday in a couple of weeks time

take care mate

erkan

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
06/11/2007 12:11

Hi Erkan



You are right about the landing fees. I forgot about these. As you say these should really bring the prices down. It's looking good. If the airlines and tourist industry catch on then NC could become the next big tourist destination. Will the NC infrastructure cope? How will they adapt to meet this demand?

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
06/11/2007 12:28

Hi dodger



I think there is one more copy left at Amazon. It is a must read and an absolute eye opener. I read the whole book last night (it's not a big book) and could not put it down. The book proves that the Greek Cypriots do not have the legal right to make decisions for the whole island. The treaty of gauarantors means that decisions have to be made jointly with the TC's.

The security council, courts etc have just ignored all this because politically it serves the US and UK.

I also now believe that there must be some inherent bias towards the Greeks and against the Turks. My own personal view is that the western world sees the superiority of ancient greece throuh its philosphers Socrates, Plato, Pythagaros and Aristotle and wants to be associated with that. Maybe the West, particularly Britain felt agrieved that it got a pasting from the Turks at Gallipoli.



It is interesting that the author mentions that the TC's had has many displaced people as the GC's. Also that the TC's had more land prior to the 50's through evkaf. Professor Hasan Ali Bicak says that the overall losses of the TC's has been greater than the GC's. Crazily, most of the international aid has gone to the GC's. It seems that the GC's could have financed their displaced people many times over with this aid, but what did they spend their aid on - arms. In fact in one year their military spending was the equivalent, per head as the US.



Erkan, the author quotes the British High Commissioner of Cyprus who in 1881 stated that there were only 600 Hellenic subjects on the island. How was it that Greece was able to send over so many of it's people and effectively try and colonise it?



I will reveal more from the book when I can.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
06/11/2007 12:40

hi mate

im not sure they would be able to cope and to tell you the truth i would not want it to become dependant on tourisim alone and forget about everything else just take a look at the south places like the club 18-30's agia napa totally ruined and surrounding places, another example is turkey they sold themselves short by relying on tourisim and putting their other sectors on the back seat and this has blown up in their faces because this year the trade was well down so what the tourisim department did was lower prices on holidays to turkey and this too blew up in their faces because this encouraged the less quality customer who in turn did not spend a money

so lets just hope this dont happen in north cyprus

regards

erkan

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
06/11/2007 12:58

I am with you Erkan. I don't want it to be flooded with tourists. The decisions the government has to make are very difficult ones. Hopefully they will find a way for the TC people to prosper without damaging its charm. It's going to be very difficult.

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
06/11/2007 19:35

Hi Erkan, all that stuff about tourism, you've just persauded me -I don't want directs flights!!! Can I unsign do you think? LOL.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
06/11/2007 20:33

Great post no 347 ilove cyprus, you write very fluently.So i need to try amazon for the book refresh my memory with the title.Your not going to like this but i believe that if the north completeley opens up in twenty years time it could end up like the south full of elvis impressionists and bar crawlers vommitng,and cavorting in the streets,a good percentage of which (im sorry to say) would be brits) which would be very very sad.The 6 million dollar question is how do you strike a happy medium.As the actress said to the bishop nice and slowly does it.



21 again eh erkan,were are you planning on going,will you be taking some time off.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
06/11/2007 23:43

hi guys

i know what your saying guys because thats what exactly has happend to marmaris once considered the st tropez of turkey now its become like exactly what paul said but with michael jackson & drag tina turner acts aswell and cos flights are cheap there now (because every1 flies here soon easyjet too) you get the bottom of the barrel tourists!! this is what will happen if any tom,dick and harry airlines fly to north cyprus so what i suggest yes to direct flights but only selected airlines kthy-sun express-atlas jet and a big company like b.a that way we all win cheaper tickets because of the competion of the chosen airlines enuf tourists coming on these airlines to promote much needed growth to the economy in turn will have a stronger say in becoming self governing self sufficent independent country watched under the mothering eye of turkey

ohh my god i should become a politician!!!!! L.O.L i dont think so!!!!



donna look at us!!! typical turks saying one thing one min then saying the completly the opposite the other min L.O.L



paul 21 ahh i wish mate cant even remember back then it was a blur!!!

but i do have a saying - you are as young as you feel or how young who the woman is feeling you!!! so im 28 mate L.O.L

i was thinking of going either to istanbul for a crazy few days only 30mins plane time or going cappadocia to the cave hotel and doing a hot air ballon ride over the mountains

also that book is called the cyprus problem if mark has not got back to you

take care all

regards

erkan

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
06/11/2007 23:56

I still support direct flights-I was being flippant.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
07/11/2007 00:09

hi donna

i know you were i was joking around also ive posted that name of the book on other thread take a look see if you have heard of it

take care

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
07/11/2007 11:12

Thanks for yur kind words Paul. The author is Michael Stephen. I can see why he is one of Donna's heroes.

The thought of NC turning into a haven for drunken Brits fills me with dread. The multitude of casinos and nightclubs (knocking shops) might help in making that more of a possibility.

Lets keep quite about NC and keep it a secret. I promise never to speak about it again to friends or family

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
07/11/2007 13:18

hi mark

im glad you agree with us i can stand those typical brits we all see in spain-france-greece and south cyprus and now turkey go around getting drunk from the morning walking around in their union jack vest and shorts gives the brits a bad name (not that im being a snob or anything) and generally lowers the tone of all the places these people visit , i dont mind a few casinos, bars and clubs in moderation but hate the knocking shops becase its not just tourists that visit these places also the locals that are on min wage go and spend most of thier wages on these lady's of the night (put nicely) and dont worry about feeding their familes how can these people expect to progress in life financialy and moraley

i do take my hat of to michael stephen he does ruffle a few feathers with his views and does not care what any of the governments think and the book is very educational gives you a insight on whats gone on in the past

take care all

erkan

lovelife


Joined: 07/07/2007
Posts: 231

Message Posted:
08/11/2007 21:43

Unfortunately if NC gets direct flights you can bet the charter boys will arrive, Tompson, First Choice et al.

The tourism powers at be will have a very fine line to tread, and need to get their act together to avoid the chavvy end of the market.

They need to pitch at what NC has to offer, beautiful scenery, emphasise on the walking in the mountains, can you cycle in them there mountains? the bird watching and flowers, should attract the bobble hatted brigade. The historical sites, any that need some money spending on them to improve their sight seeing potential should be done. The beaches etc.

Hotels/casinos should be limited in building and size and that goes for certain types of pub style places as well.

And a law should should be passed banning anyone impersonating dead singers, that should stop the Elvis impressionists for a start!!!!

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
11/11/2007 22:36

hi guys

been reading the newspapers and got more info on how the greek cypriots are using their power of being in the e.u in trying to acheive some sort domiance over north cyprus and turkey

last week the greek cypriots registered tukish delight as greek delight as a product that was invented and produced in south cyprus, now everybody knows that turkish delight is a product of turkey and is called lokum the gc's have called their new word for this product lokumi even in greece its called turkish delight

now the biggest and oldest producer of turkish delight in afyon are forced to change their description of their product being a turkish speciality even thou they have producing lokum for over a century

this is to add to last month the gs's registering baklava as one of their products and once again everybody know baklava goes back to the otoman empire even to this day in arab countries it is still called baklava

and now even down silly things like deserts the greek cypriots are abusing their power of being in the e.u and turkey and north cyprus not

to some of you this might not mean nothing but tell this to all the people who produce these goods for a living being told because of trademark issues they cant resemble nothing with the greek cypriot registerd product

you see they are even trying to take their livelyhood out of the turks

how far will they go!!!!

regards

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
11/11/2007 22:45

Grrr..why doesn't the Turkish locum company not sue? Surely they had objected at the time proving that the GCs must not be granted the patent??!!!

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
11/11/2007 23:11

hi donna

they cant sue because they have registerd it in the e.u constitution and turkey and n cyprus not being in the e.u all they can do is object and appeal to this and hopefully get an injunction so they can register it in the worldwide patent laws which overules the e.u laws of trademarking

lets hope they acheive this and the desert baklava

they (greek cypriots) have a tendancy of taking our products and their names:



doner kebab - no such name in greek vocab, in turkish doner means turn around

shish kebab - again shish means skewer

dolma - again dolma means to fill

pide - an oval flat bread originated from turkey - but everyone knows it as pitta bread

and the list can go on

regards

erkan

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
11/11/2007 23:23

Erkan,

I must say I'm surprised the Turkish company hadn't already patented Turkish Delight worldwide. Right let's think of what we need to patent before the GCs steal it:

Everything you put above

yorghurt (also a Turkish word)

hellim or is that GC (let's steal it anyway. LOL)

Cyprus...

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
12/11/2007 00:29

One thing the GC's will never patent is North Cyprus (The land of the free and the beautiful)



Must be a real pain looking in from the outside!!!

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
12/11/2007 21:13

it is tiggy wish i was there now.

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
09/12/2007 03:10

Bump it up.